Magic the Gathering XXII: Where Puns Go to Die

[Fable Wright]

Three card blind was a lot of fun.
I am in favor of banning special cards.
I think we should be starting over with no ban list.

Existing ban list is probably a good idea and raises some interesting design limitations. I'll also support special cards being banned, as things like Ink-Eyes are far too powerful in this format.

[Ninjaman]

Existing ban list is probably a good idea and raises some interesting design limitations. I'll also support special cards being banned, as things like Ink-Eyes are far too powerful in this format.

But a ban list will arise anyways as we play. It just seems more fun to start over than not being able to use some cards because someone won with them over a year ago.

[Fable Wright]

But a ban list will arise anyways as we play. It just seems more fun to start over than not being able to use some cards because someone won with them over a year ago.

Rehashing the same decks and having everyone work with Black Lotus/Blacker Lotus/Chronomaton for the first few games doesn't seem very fun, either.

[Ninjaman]

Rehashing the same decks and having everyone work with Black Lotus/Blacker Lotus/Chronomaton for the first few games doesn't seem very fun, either.

Sure it does. I would love to see what people can do a second time around.

[tgva8889]

It's fun for the new people, it's not fun for anyone who's ever played before.

[TiaC]

Given how slowly this format evolves, I also lean towards keeping the ban list. If a clear majority of players want to start over, I'd be ok with that, but so far I'm not seeing that.

So far, 4 people have expressed interest. Think I should go for it?

[Bucky]

Reddit spotted another infinite using newly spoiled cards.

Spoiler

Show

1x Decoction Module
2x (Panharmonicon or Decoction Module)
1x Whirler Virtuoso
-> Infinite Thopters and, with a 2-1 split, infinite energy

[Tesla_pasta]

Given how slowly this format evolves, I also lean towards keeping the ban list. If a clear majority of players want to start over, I'd be ok with that, but so far I'm not seeing that.

So far, 4 people have expressed interest. Think I should go for it?

I'm certainly also interested.

[TiaC]

Ok, the thread is up. PM me your decks!

[gooddragon1]

4x Raise the Alarm
4x Gather the Townsfolk
4x Timely Reinforcements
4x Midnight Haunting
4x Reassembling Skeletons

4x Spirit Link
4x Vampiric Link

2x Death Pits of Rath
2x Cathar's Crusade
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Diabolic Revelation
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Planar Cleansing

Does this look good for a cheap anti aggro deck for modern?

[ChaosOS]

4x Raise the Alarm
4x Gather the Townsfolk
4x Timely Reinforcements
4x Midnight Haunting
4x Reassembling Skeletons

4x Spirit Link
4x Vampiric Link

2x Death Pits of Rath
2x Cathar's Crusade
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Diabolic Revelation
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Planar Cleansing

Does this look good for a cheap anti aggro deck for modern?

I mean you basically fold to infect given that you completely lack any serious interaction with them, but yes you would do well vs. affinity/burn/zooicide. My real question comes more about the enchantments and bigger spells you're running. Why are you running a bunch of expensive enchantments that don't really accomplish anything for you? Cathar's Crusade I guess can build up your guys, but Honor of the Pure and Intangible Virtue are significantly more efficient at that. Your Timely Reinforcements are going to be dead a lot of the time since you're pumping out so many tokens and lifegain. Whip of Erebos is good because of the reanimation effect, not the global lifelink. I'm really confused why you're running a VERY expensive tutor in Diabolic Revelation, and why are you running a 6 mana global wrath that kills any enchantments that you're putting on the board.

This is of course completely ignoring that you basically concede any and all combo, control, or midrange matchups.

[Fable Wright]

4x Raise the Alarm
4x Gather the Townsfolk
4x Timely Reinforcements
4x Midnight Haunting
4x Reassembling Skeletons

4x Spirit Link
4x Vampiric Link

2x Death Pits of Rath
2x Cathar's Crusade
2x Whip of Erebos
2x Diabolic Revelation
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Planar Cleansing

Does this look good for a cheap anti aggro deck for modern?

Not really, no. Aggro in modern is dealing with Burn, Burning Zoo, Death's Shadow Zoo, Merfolk, and Affinity. Burn doesn't care about your creatures and just domes you. Burning Zoo tramples over with Ghor-Clan Rampager, Death's Shadow gets you with Temur Battle-Rage, Merfolk largely ignores you, and Affinity will devastate you in a game of attrition. I have strong doubts that you would ever manage to resolve a Planar Cleansing against a Modern aggro deck, though by fluke it's possible that you might wind up casting Death Pits once or twice.

[gooddragon1]

Not really, no. Aggro in modern is dealing with Burn, Burning Zoo, Death's Shadow Zoo, Merfolk, and Affinity. Burn doesn't care about your creatures and just domes you. Burning Zoo tramples over with Ghor-Clan Rampager, Death's Shadow gets you with Temur Battle-Rage, Merfolk largely ignores you, and Affinity will devastate you in a game of attrition. I have strong doubts that you would ever manage to resolve a Planar Cleansing against a Modern aggro deck, though by fluke it's possible that you might wind up casting Death Pits once or twice.

To answer both in one the diabolic revelation+elixir of immortality combo. Planar cleansing is in case of a board state that causes something near a stall because I can then recover with the aforementioned combo.

The key word here is: Inexpensive.

What deck (or at least some cards) would you recommend that includes black as a color to deal with those things while being inexpensive?

[Fable Wright]

What deck (or at least some cards) would you recommend that includes black as a color to deal with those things while being inexpensive?

You need cheap board wipes and a clock. Unfortunately...

*Googles prices*

...Everything has gotten so much more expensive since I bought into Modern.

Regardless, here is what each deck looks like, more or less.

1. Affinity: The threats are Steel Overseer, Cranial Plating on Etched Champion/Vault Skirge/Signal Pest, Arcbound Ravager, and Master of Etherium. You need something to deal with a lot of 2-3 toughness creatures on turns 2-3 and some spot removal, or you will lose. Weak to Tarmogoyf and board wipes.
2. Burning Zoo: You will deal with 2-3 1 mana hasty creatures with 2 toughness. They will get big from Atarka's Command, pumped with Ghor-Clan Rampager, and may complemented by Tarmogoyf, Boros Reckoner, and Boros Charm. Efficient spot removal in response to pumps would help... but a good Burning Zoo player won't pump into open mana, and just let you take the damage. Weak to counterspells and spot removal.
3. Straight Zoo: You will deal with a lot of 3-toughness creatures, and a few huge creatures speckled in with a lot more toughness than that. Weak to wipes and some way to deal with its burn.
4. Death's Shadow Zoo: Steppe Lynx, Tarmogoyf, Temur Battle-Rage, the titular Shadow, and a lot of cantrips to pump the Goyf. Beware the Become Immense/Temur Battle Rage play. Weak-ish to spot removal.
5. Infect: Their creature is flying, unblockable, can pump to lethal size very quickly, and will often be protected well. Weaknesses include high creature density. Weak to spot removal and flash blockers.
6. Boggles: You need sacrifice removal or you will lose to the boggle with 2-3 umbras on it, lifelink, first strike, trample, and hits like a mack truck.
7. Merfolk: You will need to deal with 2-3 lords on the field at a time, and the merfolk player just keeps on drawing cards. Weak to 1-for-1ing their Lords.

[enderlord99]

Spoiler: I like TCGs

Show

[Bucky]

Spoiler: Kaladesh limited

Show

Is it just my imagination or is the R/W pair in Kaladesh looking aggressive on par with Zendikar?

Just in White commons, we have:

Spoiler

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*A premium 2-drop
*A 2-drop and a 4-drop with attack triggers
*A 2-drop that benefits from your units dying
*Two combat tricks
*A removal spell for attackers/blockers
*A 3-mana removal spell
*A 2/2 Fabricate 1 for 3
*A 2/1 Fabricate 1 flier
*A 3/4 Flier
*A tempo cantrip

vs

*An 0/4 for 1
*A flicker effect
*A disenchant variant

(tl;dr: 12/15 white commons slot into a Zendikar-style aggro deck, and it's not clear the artifact destruction isn't also better on the attack)

And in red, we have:

Spoiler

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*A combat trick for attackers only
*A premium aggressive 2-drop
*Two burn spells
*A menace-granting aura
*A Threaten effect
*A 1/3 for 2 that occasionally burns the opponent's face
*A 1-drop that's playable because it's also artifact removal
*A 3-drop that often attacks as a 4/3 trample
*Another 3-drop that attacks for 4
*A Hill Giant that gives things Haste
*A big Menace creature for the top of the curve
*A 1-mana "target creature can't block this turn" sorcery
vs

*A card selection spell
*Demolish
*A 5/2 for 4

(tl;dr: 13/16 commons are aggressive-leaning and two of the remaining three are borderline unplayable)

Moving into the high points of the two colors' uncommons:

Spoiler

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White:
An energy powered Circle of Protection variant (anti-aggro)
A 4-drop with a strong attack trigger
An Oblivion Ring creature
A premium 2-drop
A 4/4 flier for 6

Red:
A playable red 1-drop
More burn spells
A 3/3 haste for 3
A sweeper (anti-aggro)
A 4-drop that disables blockers
A 2/1 Haste for 2
A 4-mana Trumpet Blast with vehicle synergy

And here's my formula for Zendikar limited; you want:
*Any playable 1-drops you can find
*2 drops
*3 drops that can attack profitably into 2-drops
*Hasty and evasive creatures
*Removal
*Combat tricks
*A bit of direct damage

Anything else doesn't make the cut.

[Techwarrior]

So, I've been looking at getting into Modern, not tournament level, but I'd like to be pretty competitive. I was wondering what suggestions might be worth while. I'm really looking to stay super low budget as well (hence no Path or Thoughtseize).

Spoiler: List

Show

4x Raise the Alarm
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession

4x Honor of the Pure
4x Intangible Virtue

4x Duress
4x Murderous Cut

4x Brave the Elements
4x Zealous Persecution

Sideboard:
4x Pithing Needle
4x Rest in Peace
4x Sundering Growth

I'd like to fill out the sideboard, but I'm not sure what I should be afraid of.

[Fable Wright]

So, I've been looking at getting into Modern, not tournament level, but I'd like to be pretty competitive. I was wondering what suggestions might be worth while. I'm really looking to stay super low budget as well (hence no Path or Thoughtseize).

Spoiler: List

Show

4x Raise the Alarm
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession

4x Honor of the Pure
4x Intangible Virtue

4x Duress
4x Murderous Cut

4x Brave the Elements
4x Zealous Persecution

Sideboard:
4x Pithing Needle
4x Rest in Peace
4x Sundering Growth

I'd like to fill out the sideboard, but I'm not sure what I should be afraid of.

Have you considered running the Polymorph package? 4x Polymorph plus 2x fattie of choice (usually Emrakul, but can also be Inktread Leviathan or Blightsteel Colossus or Steel Hellkite or anything, really). Running Blue would also give you the options to play Mana Leak as additional disruption elements against decks like Ad Nauseum or Storm to boot.

Oh, and you're going to need more token generators. Running 12 creatures in a deck that wants to get there by attacking won't fly at all.

Sideboard I'd just fill with generic answers at the moment, then tailor it to your metagame once you start fielding it.

[Somensjev]

Just a quick rules question

In two headed giant, if i control a phyrexian swarmlord, and the opposing team has, say, four poison counters.
At my upkeep, do i get 4 or 8 tokens
When i first thought of it, i thought 8 tokens, since each opponent has 4 counters (even though they're shared), though i wasn't certain. After reading the relevant rules i could see, and the card text, i've gotten more confused (probably because of lack of sleep, more than anything else )

Could someone tell me how many tokens i would get, and possibly explain why. Many thanks.

[Fable Wright]

Just a quick rules question

In two headed giant, if i control a phyrexian swarmlord, and the opposing team has, say, four poison counters.
At my upkeep, do i get 4 or 8 tokens
When i first thought of it, i thought 8 tokens, since each opponent has 4 counters (even though they're shared), though i wasn't certain. After reading the relevant rules i could see, and the card text, i've gotten more confused (probably because of lack of sleep, more than anything else )

Could someone tell me how many tokens i would get, and possibly explain why. Many thanks.

You would get four. Much like your opponents share one life total, they share one poison pool. So, as Phyrexian Swarmlord checks for the total number of counters among players who are not your allies, it finds a grand total of four, and you get four bugs.

[Bucky]

So, I've been looking at getting into Modern, not tournament level, but I'd like to be pretty competitive. I was wondering what suggestions might be worth while. I'm really looking to stay super low budget as well (hence no Path or Thoughtseize).

Spoiler: List

Show

4x Raise the Alarm
4x Lingering Souls
4x Spectral Procession

4x Honor of the Pure
4x Intangible Virtue

4x Duress
4x Murderous Cut

4x Brave the Elements
4x Zealous Persecution

Sideboard:
4x Pithing Needle
4x Rest in Peace
4x Sundering Growth

You don't need 24 lands unless you don't have any duals. And without duals, Spectral/Lingering is sketchy.

[ImperiousLeader]

Played in the Kaladesh prerelease last night. Got smoked. I didn't think my pool was that bad (but it was really light on creatures), but I got run over by a very aggressive red-black deck, and then watched my angels and constructs get ruined by the removal suite in a white-green deck. Despite that, I'm liking the set. The cards are pretty, I'm liking the mechanics and it's an interesting limited environment. There's a bunch of cards I'm looking to add to my EDH decks.

[Techwarrior]

You don't need 24 lands unless you don't have any duals. And without duals, Spectral/Lingering is sketchy.

Have you considered running the Polymorph package? 4x Polymorph plus 2x fattie of choice (usually Emrakul, but can also be Inktread Leviathan or Blightsteel Colossus or Steel Hellkite or anything, really). Running Blue would also give you the options to play Mana Leak as additional disruption elements against decks like Ad Nauseum or Storm to boot.

Oh, and you're going to need more token generators. Running 12 creatures in a deck that wants to get there by attacking won't fly at all.

Sideboard I'd just fill with generic answers at the moment, then tailor it to your metagame once you start fielding it.

I'd sort of like to stay away from blue for this, I've already got several blue decks, and I'm trying to expand my style away from just playing more Draw-Go. Do you think cutting maybe two or three lands and maybe one Zealous Persecution for a playset of Gather the Townsfolk would be better?

Also, Fable, when you say generic answers, do you think what I have is a good start or do you have any other suggestions?

[Fable Wright]

I'd sort of like to stay away from blue for this, I've already got several blue decks, and I'm trying to expand my style away from just playing more Draw-Go. Do you think cutting maybe two or three lands and maybe one Zealous Persecution for a playset of Gather the Townsfolk would be better?

That would indeed be a good move.

Also, Fable, when you say generic answers, do you think what I have is a good start or do you have any other suggestions?

Something like Kataki or Stony Silence for Affinity instead of Sundering Growth, Ethersworn Canonist/Rule of Law/Eidolon of Rhetoric against Ad Nauseum, and Kor Firewalker against burn.

[The Extinguisher]

So I need to show someone the 2 headed giant decks we put together at the prerelease. This format is ridiculous and I love it.

Spoiler: Deck 1

Show

Night Market Lookout x4
Eager Construct
Reckless Fireweaver
Scrapheap Scrounger
Syndicate Trafficker
Spireside Infiltrator x2
Pia Nalaar
Prakhata Pillar-Bug
Foundry Screecher
Filigree Familiar
Built to Smash
Underhanded Designs
Prophetic Prism
Key to the City
Unlicensed Disintegration
Renegade Freighter x3
Start Your Engines
Ovalchase Dragster
Ballista Charger
Swamp x8
Mountain x7

Spoiler: Deck 2

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Attune with Aether x3
Servant of the Conduit
Wild Wanderer
Prophetic Prism
Glimmer of Genius
Aether Theorist x2
Larger than Life
Whirler Virtuoso
Vedalken Blademaster
Highspire Artisan
Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Saheeli's Artistry
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter
Nissa, Vital Force
Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter
Die Young x2
Hazardous Conditions
Make Obsolete
Appetite for the Unnatural
Take Down
Forest x6
Island x4
Swamp x3
Mountain x3

The decks were super consistent, and preformed exceptionally well. Keeping the Chandra out of the RB deck might have been a mistake, but the other deck had zero problems finding the right mana, and it was making people at the tournament kinda salty so it all worked out in the end. This was the most fun I've had in 2HG.

[Dhavaer]

Whoo! Pulled a Mox Opal from my last pack in my last pre-release!

[polity4life]

I see we have a little modern talk going on.

I decided to creep into that format. While I like standard, I'm not enamored with the cost to keep up with the Joneses. Modern seems to offer a very stable format where the core is very solid with the occasional addition of something to the main or sideboard (correct me if I'm wrong though!).

Anyway, here is what my L2 friend saw played at an event he was judging and it's really in my wheelhouse:

Eldrazi Tron
Creatures:
2 x Spellskite
2 x Wurmcoil Engine
1 x Endbringer
4 x Endless One
4 x Matter Reshaper
4 x Reality Smasher
4 x Thought-Knot Seer
1 x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Spells:
4 x Expedition Map
3 x Dismember
3 x Spatial Contortion
2 x Warping Wail

Land:
3 x Wastes
4 x Eldrazi Temple
3 x Ghost Quarter
2 x Sanctum of Ugin
4 x Urza's Mine
4 x Urza's Power Plant
4 x Urza's Tower

Sideboard:
2 x Pithing Needle
3 x Ratchet Bomb
3 x Relic of Progenitus
3 x Bottle Gnomes
1 x Warping Wail
3 x All is Dust

I played against his Naya Zoo deck and it did very well. I haven't had the opportunity to try it against any of the other staples of the format but I'm told it at least has some answers to other decks.

[ChaosOS]

Eldrazi Tron is a solid deck, compromising its 80-20 matchups to bring up its 20-80 matchups relative to GR Tron. You still end up being highly favored vs. Jund due to how simply powerful the eldrazi creatures are, but actually flip some favored matchups into unfavored (Abzan company namely, the way Tron wins is turboing out a Karn or Ugin which abzan can't answer. For Eldrazi Tron, you're just too slow and get combod out).

Regarding the specific decklist, I'm surprised at the inclusion of Kozilek but no Emrakul, the Promised End.

[tgva8889]

I didn't get any masterpieces or anything, but between two prereleases I opened 3 Saheelis. So I guess that worked out pretty well.

[polity4life]

Eldrazi Tron is a solid deck, compromising its 80-20 matchups to bring up its 20-80 matchups relative to GR Tron. You still end up being highly favored vs. Jund due to how simply powerful the eldrazi creatures are, but actually flip some favored matchups into unfavored (Abzan company namely, the way Tron wins is turboing out a Karn or Ugin which abzan can't answer. For Eldrazi Tron, you're just too slow and get combod out).

Regarding the specific decklist, I'm surprised at the inclusion of Kozilek but no Emrakul, the Promised End.

It's more for mid-to-late game card draw with a very threatening body as a bonus. Emrakul would be very disruptive but I wouldn't be able to leverage her mana-cost discount too well. I'm contemplating removing Kozi and perhaps an Endless One for two Ugin.