Can adult Western animation move beyond comedy?

[Razade]

Um, are not all your examples not Western Animation?

You point to where you said "Western Animation" up here won't you please?

Animation is, and will always be silly. You simply can't do adult things like drama or complex plots with animation. As soon as something becomes animated, it is reduced to childish levels. animation is ''great'' as it allows the ''freedom'' to do anything, however that freedom is always taken way, way, way, way too far.

Just like the way CGI animation is also taken too far. Look at some recent movies like Batman vs Superman, it's just a waste of CGI spam.

Few people, even more so the normal people, will pay to watch a cartoon, except the silly funny ones..and even then the more target audience is ''people with kids who, like what their kids like''.

Oh, you didn't. Right. On to the rest, where you don't try to switch your argument to try and validate your baseless assertion!

You have no proof either. So, oh, well, right?

Except...I do. I already made a post with several examples up above but I'll put them here again. Fritz the Cat? Not childish (Not safe for work either), BoJack Hosemen? Not childish, considered a rising star in what you'd call Dramedy I suppose. Others mentioned Heavy Metal, I also mentioned it. Heavy Metal is a classic of contemporary adult animation. Lethlogica already mentioned The Secret of Kells and the Song of the Sea. Both god damned fantastic films you should watch that aren't childish even though their aimed at a younger audience. How about one I don't think anyone's mentioned. The Secrets of NIHM. Aimed at children, in no way childish or cartoony. Do the animated Lord of the Rings not count in your narrow interpretation?

Princess and the Cobbler? That one isn't cartoony or childish, at least not the REAL cut before it was hacked to pieces to combat Alaadin. Kubo and the Two Strings, Coraline...any of the LAIKA films. Aimed at children, surprisingly adult in theme and execution. They're animation. Animal Farm had an animated adaption. Is that for kids? How about When the Wind Blows, Google that one and tell me if it's cartoony or silly. A Scanner Darkly is...sorta animated. Certainly not anything you claim animated films are. People have forgotten Watership Down, but I sure didn't. Plague Dogs too. Who Framed Rodger Rabbit is a living breathing deconstruction against your entire argument. The Beatles vanity project The Yellow Submarine? The Nightmare Before Christmas? The Iron Giant? And none of this. NONE of these examples even begin to touch well known classics that have come out of Pixar.

And it's a sad circle. Have you ever seen a western animated movie that was not silly and went ''way to far'' just as it was a cartoon? The animators or other creators just can't seem to help themselves. Even when just animating something like ''character walks down the street'' they can't help themselves but go all crazy, just as it is a cartoon. And the other side of the circle are the viewers, who don't want to waste money on something animated.

No firstly. Secondly I'll direct your attention above. I'll direct your attention to Doug Walker's take on a different matter but he touches on the topic. Give it a listen. Just because you haven't explored the genre, just because you assumed it was so doesn't make it so. I've given you a list of tons of Western (and non-Western) animated movies geared towards adults and away from less silly and "cartoony" elements. Go watch them. I'll even put them in a spoiler tag so you just have the names.

Spoiler: Animated Films Darth Ultron should go watch before he tries to make reductive arguments about Western Animated Cinema again

Show

Fritz the Cat
Heavy Metal
BoJack Horseman
Secret of Kells
Song of the Sea
Secrets of NIMH
Princess and the Cobbler (Restored Addition)
Kubo of the Two Stings
Coraline
Paranorman
Watership Down
Plague Dogs
Animal Farm (The Animated Version)
Charlotte's Web (The Animated Version)
A Scanner Darkly
When the Wind Blows
Who Framed Rodger Rabbit
The Yellow Submarine
The Point (If you can find it)
The Iron Giant
The Nightmare before Christmas
Beyond the Garden Wall

You want to tell me again I don't have proof? Oh, and one last thing.

Even if I did have ''proof'', you'd still say it is the ''wrong kind of proof'' or just dismiss it, right? So what would even be the point. The ''proof'' could hit you on the head and you'd still say ''nope, no proof''

You're wrong. You're attempt at strawmanning me only to go "haha, we're both unreasonable with our assumptions so who cares!" won't work. If you could provide me proof you were correct, I'd change my stance in a heart beat. You can't so I won't. I've provided you at least three days worth of things to watch. Go watch them.

[Cheesegear]

Also, the Disney movie that Disney really wants to forget ever happened; The Black Cauldron. Eilonwy is totally a Disney Princess, but she's not. Because...Reasons.

[The Glyphstone]

If you don't make the cash, you don't get the crown.

[Razade]

Also, the Disney movie that Disney really wants to forget ever happened; The Black Cauldron. Eilonwy is totally a Disney Princess, but she's not. Because...Reasons.

Probably because it's a terrible movie and is one of the examples that has led to Darth Ulton's absurd argument that non-cartoony animated films can't exist.

If you don't make the cash, you don't get the crown.

How like life.

[Cheesegear]

If you don't make the cash, you don't get the crown.

I've always been under the impression that it's Nightmare Fuel for kids.

[EvilJames]

It's not American animation but still "western" because I believe it's British. But "When the Wind Blows". It's not funny or silly, it's not for kids, in fact it depressing as hell. So that is a decent reponse to the OP among the other's mentioned. It's also a response to Darth Ultron's posts as there is nothing silly about that cartoon. I won't spoil it, but you can watch it on Youtube, just don't do so if you are already feeling down. It's pretty bleak.

Darth Ultron seems to be referring to the animation age ghetto which he seems to accept as just the way things are and will always be. It's the idea that cartoons are for and always have been for kids. He also talks about them having to be silly and going to far (to be fair I don't know what he means by that.)

Thing is even kids shows don't have to be silly. Batman the Animated series was for kids but it was very much an action drama. In fact BtAS is a good response to the OP as well. Pretty much all of the DCAU works for this. Lots of action and drama with bits of humor thrown in (because even live action dramas have humor now and again).

See also Gargoyles, Exo Squad and that CG animated Starship Troopers show. Occasional laughs, but heavy on drama.

[Manga Shoggoth]

You point to where you said "Western Animation" up here won't you please?

In DU's defense: the thread title is "Can adult Western animation move beyond comedy?"

Not in DU's defense: I agree with pretty much everything else in your post. If we were to plunder Europe we would find lots more examples. Shall we add the two animated Discworld adaptations (Soul Music and Wyrd Sisters)? I've seen parts (if not all) of Gormenghast as animations.

Even a quick search came up with The 40 Best European Animated Feature Films of All Time (which includes a couple of your examples).

[Chromascope3D]

You'd think that DU would be more supportive of western animation considering how much "normal" people just kinda ignore it, but idk. :P

Personally, I love animated comedies, but being someone who will give anything animated at least one chance, I can totally understand the desire for more meaty/mature fare. However, considering the resounding financial success of both an R-Rated superhero movie (which hasn't happened since the 90's), and an R-Rated animated flick (which hasn't really happened ever) in the same year, it could be that we're on the precipice of a gradual cultural shift without even knowing it.

[tomandtish]

Watership Down is certainly one of the best examples. My parents let me watch it as a young kid and it made me cry for days.

It may well be though it's a rather old one, dormant for a year with a pretty spot on name for a forum like this. Smart spambot indeed. Regardless, it's a fine enough topic as it is.

I'd point to things like Fritz the Cat (google at own risk), ....

Funny story here. We got our first VCR when I was 14. After setting it up we went to the video store to pick up some movies. Dad, my brother, and I had all picked out ours. Mom was wandering through a (small) animated section and we hear..

"Oh. Fritz the Cat. I used to love that when I was a child",

So she rents it.

We get home and start watching movies. The time comes for Fritz and mom puts it in. About 7-8 minutes in we get...

"This isn't how I remember this...".

Turns out she had been thinking of Felix the Cat. But we finished watching Fritz. So the first X-rated movie I ever saw was with my parents when I was 14.

[CmdrShep2183]

Would animation give us incredible stories in sci fi and fantasy worlds? Can animation give us incredible environments.

I loved Clone Wars but would wish for something more adult.

Hopefully something better than this