Spheres of Power Ask Me Anything #2

[A.J.Gibson]

Q288 What happens when someone with the Draining Casting becomes undead? Or otherwise becomes immune to nonlethal damage? The drawback says creatures who are immune to nonlethal cannot take it, but as far as I can tell, there's no way to "buy back" general drawbacks like you can with sphere-specific drawbacks. If you took the extra spell points, I suppose you could just reduce the bonus spell points you've gotten, but what if you've taken boons instead? It feels odd to lose a boon but gain 1/6 spell point per level because you only lost one drawback but the boon you'd give up is worth two. Plus, it seems thematic to me for undead to no longer use, say, blood magic, but it's also kinda unfortunate to lose your spellcasting upon becoming a lich if that was your casting tradition.

I'd probably say 'you must voluntarily accept this form of damage for your spherecasting to work'. Basically treating it like burn for the kinetisist: it's like nonlethal damage, but isn't exactly the same, so you can't be immune to it.

[A.J.Gibson]

Thanks for the quick responses to my last question! One more I've run across while looking over the rules:

Q289 Are there any guidelines for converting racial spell-like abilities to SoP, or any plans to add them? It'd probably be pretty easy to shift them over myself (granting access to a sphere and one or two talents, with set drawbacks, perhaps?), but it'd be nice to have an "official" conversion, or at least conversion guidelines.

EDIT: Just answered my own question. For anyone else who similarly derps out and can't find it, they're in the Alternate Racial Traits section on the wikidot. Carry on.

A289 I'm not aware of any such plans, and I really don't think it's neccessary. The purpose of SoP is to provide options for spellcasters, not to completely annihilate all traces of the Vancian spellcasting system. Spell-like abilities are generally not a problem in the game, and usually owned by monsters, so its not necessary to change them.

[mrguymiah]

Q290,

I'm working with the Give Magic Life talent (Advanced Enhancement, if you're not familiar) and I'm unsure of how to calculate the potency. Here is the wording;

"For the purposes of this template, a sphere ability’s “potency” is equal to its spell point cost plus the number of sphere effects it incorporates."

I don't think it's simply "add up all the talents", cause I believe they would've written talents there. However, it's clear to differentiate between "sphere ability" and "sphere effect". So is it all of the talents except the base sphere? I'm not entirely sure, and want to make sure I am calculating it correctly.

TLDR: So I guess the question, more plainly put, is; "What is the distinction between a sphere effect, ability, and talent?"

[Mehangel]

Q290,

I'm working with the Give Magic Life talent (Advanced Enhancement, if you're not familiar) and I'm unsure of how to calculate the potency. Here is the wording;

"For the purposes of this template, a sphere ability’s “potency” is equal to its spell point cost plus the number of sphere effects it incorporates."

I don't think it's simply "add up all the talents", cause I believe they would've written talents there. However, it's clear to differentiate between "sphere ability" and "sphere effect". So is it all of the talents except the base sphere? I'm not entirely sure, and want to make sure I am calculating it correctly.

TLDR: So I guess the question, more plainly put, is; "What is the distinction between a sphere effect, ability, and talent?"

I think the main reason the talent didn't merely say "add up all the talents" is that would cause situations to arise where the base sphere would be counted for the potency despite it not being used.

Example 1, lets say you wanted to use Give Magic Life to animate the "Speak with Animals (spirit)" talent from the Nature sphere. Doing so should have a potency of 2 (1 SP + Speak with Animals effect); If potency was determined by 'adding all the talents' the potency would be 3 (despite the base sphere not actually contributing an effect).

Example 2, lets say you wanted to use Give Magic Life to animate the "Grow Plants (plantlife, geomancing)" talent from the Nature sphere. Doing so should have a potency of 2 (1 SP + Grow Plants effect); If you wanted to also incorporate the Pummel, Growth, or Entangle effect (as outlined in the Grow Plants talent), the potency would increase to 3 instead.

Needless to say, it might be easier to explain costs if you tell us what exactly you are trying to use 'Give Magic Life' with. However, if this is all too complicated for you; you should be able to simply use the 'Effects' for each sphere listed in Item Base Powers (found in Spheres of Power, pg 166), which should dramatically simplify the whole process.

[RedWyvern]

Q291: Do Sphere abilities work through windows? Spells do not, due to line of effect, but I don't see anything that says that sphere abilities require line of effect by default, and certain abilities seem to specifically not require line of effect, just line of sight (Warp, for example)

[Mehangel]

Q291: Do Sphere abilities work through windows? Spells do not, due to line of effect, but I don't see anything that says that sphere abilities require line of effect by default, and certain abilities seem to specifically not require line of effect, just line of sight (Warp, for example)

A291: Barrier from the Protection sphere does a decent job at answering this. Sphere effects that must travel to their destination (such as destructive blasts, ghost strikes, breath weapons, or any sphere ability that require touch (melee or ranged) attacks are blocked by line of effect. Other sphere effects, such as teleport and charms don't require line of effect.

However, I will say that eventually, I would like to have a definitive list of sphere abilities that require/dont require line of effect.

[mrguymiah]

I think the main reason the talent didn't merely say "add up all the talents" is that would cause situations to arise where the base sphere would be counted for the potency despite it not being used.

Example 1, lets say you wanted to use Give Magic Life to animate the "Speak with Animals (spirit)" talent from the Nature sphere. Doing so should have a potency of 2 (1 SP + Speak with Animals effect); If potency was determined by 'adding all the talents' the potency would be 3 (despite the base sphere not actually contributing an effect).

Example 2, lets say you wanted to use Give Magic Life to animate the "Grow Plants (plantlife, geomancing)" talent from the Nature sphere. Doing so should have a potency of 2 (1 SP + Grow Plants effect); If you wanted to also incorporate the Pummel, Growth, or Entangle effect (as outlined in the Grow Plants talent), the potency would increase to 3 instead.

Needless to say, it might be easier to explain costs if you tell us what exactly you are trying to use 'Give Magic Life' with. However, if this is all too complicated for you; you should be able to simply use the 'Effects' for each sphere listed in Item Base Powers (found in Spheres of Power, pg 166), which should dramatically simplify the whole process.

I'm using it for, well, a lot. So I'll start with a basic example and see if I've got it right before moving to something more complex.

1. Let's say I use Enhance + Mental Enhancement to create a living spell that gives +x to a mental stat. The Potency would be 2, right? 1 because it is the base sphere ability of enhance and 1 from it being the effect of Mental Enhancement specifically?

2. A living spell of Divination Sphere's Advanced Talent "Alternate Divinations" for Life Sense with "Widen Vision" and two additions of "Expansive Sight". The Potency would be 5, 6, or 7?(1SP+AD+WV+ES+ES+(?)Base Divination+(?)Life Sphere)

The biggest issue, I suppose, is that I'm not sure when the base sphere's ability should be included or not. In the first example, Mental Enhancement merely augments what you can do with the sphere's base ability, but it's still USING that ability. The second is even more confusing because you can't grant the Life Sense alternate divination sense unless you have the life sphere, but it's not directly involved with the effects kinda.

[Mehangel]

Again, I like you am unable to sort out the RAW or author's RAI on the advanced talent, but personally I would handle the example as follows:

1. Let's say I use Enhance + Mental Enhancement to create a living spell that gives +x to a mental stat. The Potency would be 2, right? 1 because it is the base sphere ability of enhance and 1 from it being the effect of Mental Enhancement specifically?

Yes, I would rate the potency as 2.

2. A living spell of Divination Sphere's Advanced Talent "Alternate Divinations" for Life Sense with "Widen Vision" and two additions of "Expansive Sight". The Potency would be 5, 6, or 7?(1SP+AD+WV+ES+ES+(?)Base Divination+(?)Life Sphere)

I would rate the potency as 6 (including the Base sphere for the sense ability, while excluding the normal necessity for the Life sphere)

[mrguymiah]

Again, I like you am unable to sort out the RAW or author's RAI on the advanced talent, but personally I would handle the example as follows:



Yes, I would rate the potency as 2.



I would rate the potency as 6 (including the Base sphere for the sense ability, while excluding the normal necessity for the Life sphere)

So, last question. Does the potency include the spell points involved with the Give Magic Life itself?

[Mehangel]

So, last question. Does the potency include the spell points involved with the Give Magic Life itself?

No, the potency should not include the spell points used to cast Give Magic Life.

[arkangel111]

Q292 - So I've been re-reading (and attempting to complete for the first time) RJ's Wheel of time epic. Anyways, I was trying to stat out what an Aes Sedai, and Ashaman might use for their spell casting as far as drawbacks go. the problem really stems from trying to stat out the drawback magical signs.

in case you are unfamiliar with the series here is how they work.

women channelers - clearly can tell when a woman is channeling as long as you also can channel (they glow), otherwise nothing. a male channeler can sense that A woman is channeling but not who or where precisely (goosebumps when nearby).

male channelers - males can tell when another male is channeling though I can't remember a single instance where it says they glow, just that they can sense the power in nearby males (6th sense type thing). women cannot sense men unless they use special artifacts or specific "spells".

neither can actually see the other channeling and normal people can only see the effects of the spells.

Now its really not super important and I'm not playing WoT in a DND world and either way would require a DM judgement but how would you rate this sort of drawback? More out of curiosity or world building guidance.

[Mehangel]

Q292 - So I've been re-reading (and attempting to complete for the first time) RJ's Wheel of time epic. Anyways, I was trying to stat out what an Aes Sedai, and Ashaman might use for their spell casting as far as drawbacks go. the problem really stems from trying to stat out the drawback magical signs.

in case you are unfamiliar with the series here is how they work.

women channelers - clearly can tell when a woman is channeling as long as you also can channel (they glow), otherwise nothing. a male channeler can sense that A woman is channeling but not who or where precisely (goosebumps when nearby).

male channelers - males can tell when another male is channeling though I can't remember a single instance where it says they glow, just that they can sense the power in nearby males (6th sense type thing). women cannot sense men unless they use special artifacts or specific "spells".

neither can actually see the other channeling and normal people can only see the effects of the spells.

Now its really not super important and I'm not playing WoT in a DND world and either way would require a DM judgement but how would you rate this sort of drawback? More out of curiosity or world building guidance.

I think just using a variant of Magical Signs should work, where instead of having ONE tell-tale sign (visual manifestation, auditory manifestation, tactile manifestation, etc) that all nearby creatures can sense, instead have it give multiple tell-tale signs that only those sharing their gender can sense. Maybe also increasing the range from 30-ft to 60-ft, just for good measure.

[A.J.Gibson]

Q292 - So I've been re-reading (and attempting to complete for the first time) RJ's Wheel of time epic. Anyways, I was trying to stat out what an Aes Sedai, and Ashaman might use for their spell casting as far as drawbacks go. the problem really stems from trying to stat out the drawback magical signs.

in case you are unfamiliar with the series here is how they work.

women channelers - clearly can tell when a woman is channeling as long as you also can channel (they glow), otherwise nothing. a male channeler can sense that A woman is channeling but not who or where precisely (goosebumps when nearby).

male channelers - males can tell when another male is channeling though I can't remember a single instance where it says they glow, just that they can sense the power in nearby males (6th sense type thing). women cannot sense men unless they use special artifacts or specific "spells".

neither can actually see the other channeling and normal people can only see the effects of the spells.

Now its really not super important and I'm not playing WoT in a DND world and either way would require a DM judgement but how would you rate this sort of drawback? More out of curiosity or world building guidance.

I would just give the ability directly to all casters to sense other casters. It's not impactful enough to warrant an ability or drawback by itself, and it effectively balances itself, since each caster can sense and be sensed.

[arkangel111]

@A.J. I think there may have been a small misunderstanding on my question. I was really wondering more how you would rate such an ability if you were to convert it straight across unaltered. Personally, I think it might sit somewhere between a full drawback and 1/2 a drawback. are you saying it would not be given a rating at all?

I know the easiest way to represent such a thing would be to force it into SoP using straight SoP rules already available. However, when world building I look at SoP as a means for me (the DM) to design the magic system and then make others (the players) use it as written. I know many people use it to design an individual character and put it in the world picking and choosing drawbacks as they see fit, meaning the magic has no real structure and overarching theme, from one caster to the next.

I am looking at homebrewing some other drawbacks and boons but was wondering how you would rule the cost (or credit) of such a drawback as presented.

@mehangel some of your changes i would consider, seems appropriate for the setting anyways, but the questions is more that the drawback is for others to know you are casting and interrupt it. That is where my confusion lies, in the setting (and most games) there are more non-casters than casters so is it really a drawback? how much should it really give the player?

[Mehangel]

@mehangel some of your changes i would consider, seems appropriate for the setting anyways, but the questions is more that the drawback is for others to know you are casting and interrupt it. That is where my confusion lies, in the setting (and most games) there are more non-casters than casters so is it really a drawback? how much should it really give the player?

In Spheres of Power if a caster is without a casting tradition can cast spells without any obvious discernible signs (they don't chant loudly, wave their hands dramatically, have observable magical effects, etc). That is why Magical Signs is a drawback, it allows casters and non-casters to know that you are casting a spell making it easier for others to interrupt it, or atleast identify the caster.

[SangoProduction]

#293 The Eliciter's Hateful Aura says everyone provokes against affected targets... That seems like a pretty poor rules dysfunction, as one can simply choose not to take the AoOs, even if the fluff seems to imply that they can't. And also, EVERYONE provokes. It gives no conditionals. That kid flying a plane across the world? He also provokes an attack of opportunity!

I know what the intended rules are, but this seems really silly as written. Scry and die? Nah. Just Aura and get hit from across the planes for no freaking reason. He just hates you.

Am I just reading this wrong? Is the RAW really that bad?

[Mehangel]

#293 The Eliciter's Hateful Aura says everyone provokes against affected targets... That seems like a pretty poor rules dysfunction, as one can simply choose not to take the AoOs, even if the fluff seems to imply that they can't. And also, EVERYONE provokes. It gives no conditionals. That kid flying a plane across the world? He also provokes an attack of opportunity!

I know what the intended rules are, but this seems really silly as written. Scry and die? Nah. Just Aura and get hit from across the planes for no freaking reason. He just hates you.

Am I just reading this wrong? Is the RAW really that bad?

It does say that it only affects those within the 30-ft aura, and that the effect ends once they leave the aura.

[A.J.Gibson]

@A.J. I think there may have been a small misunderstanding on my question. I was really wondering more how you would rate such an ability if you were to convert it straight across unaltered. Personally, I think it might sit somewhere between a full drawback and 1/2 a drawback. are you saying it would not be given a rating at all?

I know the easiest way to represent such a thing would be to force it into SoP using straight SoP rules already available. However, when world building I look at SoP as a means for me (the DM) to design the magic system and then make others (the players) use it as written. I know many people use it to design an individual character and put it in the world picking and choosing drawbacks as they see fit, meaning the magic has no real structure and overarching theme, from one caster to the next.

I am looking at homebrewing some other drawbacks and boons but was wondering how you would rule the cost (or credit) of such a drawback as presented.

Yes, I understand, and I'm saying that if everyone has the same drawback and everyone has the same advantage, they balance out, so it's neither a drawback or disadvantage.

If someone had the drawback without have the advantage, it might be worth drawback, assuming it allows the same amount of information that magical signs does.

[A.J.Gibson]

#293 The Eliciter's Hateful Aura says everyone provokes against affected targets... That seems like a pretty poor rules dysfunction, as one can simply choose not to take the AoOs, even if the fluff seems to imply that they can't. And also, EVERYONE provokes. It gives no conditionals. That kid flying a plane across the world? He also provokes an attack of opportunity!

I know what the intended rules are, but this seems really silly as written. Scry and die? Nah. Just Aura and get hit from across the planes for no freaking reason. He just hates you.

Am I just reading this wrong? Is the RAW really that bad?

I think what it means is that enemies provoke AoO from other enemies (their own allies). Presumably the enemies have to take these AoO, or the affect would be a lot less useful.

And yes, there is the 30 ft range limit.

[SangoProduction]

It does say that it only affects those within the 30-ft aura, and that the effect ends once they leave the aura.

It does say that everyone provokes from targets affected by the aura, not that the provoker has to be in the aura. And AoOs only make qualifications for having enemies provoke, not for how you do the attack after they've provoked, so that offers no restrictions either.

I think what it means is that enemies provoke AoO from other enemies (their own allies). Presumably the enemies have to take these AoO, or the affect would be a lot less useful.

And yes, there is the 30 ft range limit.

That is clearly the intent. But not the RAW, if I'm seeing this right..

[SangoProduction]

#294 How do Blast Types interact with Blast Shapes that last longer than instantaneous?
As far as I can tell, I think it takes effect each time it does damage, yes? (I kinda like the image of an enemy named "Facehugger" that is actually just an Energy Tether, Drowning Blast.)

[stack]

#294 How do Blast Types interact with Blast Shapes that last longer than instantaneous?
As far as I can tell, I think it takes effect each time it does damage, yes? (I kinda like the image of an enemy named "Facehugger" that is actually just an Energy Tether, Drowning Blast.)

A294: each time damage is dealt, yes.

[rs2excelsior]

Q295 I could have sworn I saw this asked before, but I can't find the answer so I'll ask again:

How exactly does momentum from the War Sphere work? Allies (usually as swift actions) can use abilities from your momentum pool under certain conditions. So far, so good. But then there's this bit:

A War caster who has at least one (Momentum) talent can use that talent as a standard action by spending a spell point... Using a (momentum) talent refills the momentum pool to its maximum value (any surplus momentum generated is lost).

Most of the momentum talents seem to have requirements that would already use a standard action (such as making attacks), which seems to indicate that the caster would rarely be able to actually use his own momentum talents. And, the way its phrased, it sounds like anyone who uses a momentum talent automatically refills the pool, which kind of negates the "momentum pool as a resource" thing. The best way I can make sense of it is that the caster can fill or refill the pool as a standard action, and allies can use those talents according to the listed action type. Is that correct? Can a caster use their own momentum talents, as requiring a standard action would preclude most of them?

[death390]

hello i am working in dnd 3.5 and my DM will let me use Spheres for my beguiler as long as i can come up with something reasonable for her. i was looking for some help balancing out the character.


so starting with the base sorcerer casting tradition i have verbal + somatic (2). i was thinking of adding material (component pouch) and easy focus. since almost all 3.5 characters need small misc components for their spells, such as fleece for minor image. i wanted to add in easy focus to keep power at sorcerers spell point total and make the spells last a titch longer.

for spheres i was looking through spell list and found: mind, creation, protection, enhancement, divination, illusion, time were directly found in their spell list. however i think that: warp, telekinesis, dark; would also work quite well with the beguilers style.

considering the beguiler would be a limited diversity high caster (22 base talent points) i was considering limiting selections to 6 spheres total. early game i would be using some sphere drawbacks to enable the character to use a few more talents (like illusions disappearance) while relying on no spell point abilities since only have 1/lvl + 1/odd lvl + int modifier spell points.


TLDR: beguiler dnd 3.5 (Tradition: Verbal, Motion [2], material, easy focus)(max 6 spheres from:mind, creation, protection, enhancement, divination, illusion, time, warp, telekinesis, dark) (lvl +odd +int spell points) Thoughts?

[Mehangel]

Q295 I could have sworn I saw this asked before, but I can't find the answer so I'll ask again:

How exactly does momentum from the War Sphere work? Allies (usually as swift actions) can use abilities from your momentum pool under certain conditions. So far, so good. But then there's this bit:

Most of the momentum talents seem to have requirements that would already use a standard action (such as making attacks), which seems to indicate that the caster would rarely be able to actually use his own momentum talents. And, the way its phrased, it sounds like anyone who uses a momentum talent automatically refills the pool, which kind of negates the "momentum pool as a resource" thing. The best way I can make sense of it is that the caster can fill or refill the pool as a standard action, and allies can use those talents according to the listed action type. Is that correct? Can a caster use their own momentum talents, as requiring a standard action would preclude most of them?

This may have been the thread you were looking for.

Once a character gains a momentum talent, they may as a standard action spend a spell point to gain a momentum pool (equal to Caster Level + Casting Ability Modifier). As long as the caster has a momentum pool, allies (including yourself) may spend momentum to utilize any momentum talents the caster possesses. Once the pool is empty (or expires), it requires the caster to spend another spell point as a standard action to refill the momentum pool.

[Mehangel]

TLDR: beguiler dnd 3.5 (Tradition: Verbal, Motion [2], material, easy focus)(max 6 spheres from:mind, creation, protection, enhancement, divination, illusion, time, warp, telekinesis, dark) (lvl +odd +int spell points) Thoughts?

I just wanted to say, there is no reason why you should restrict the beguiler class to 6 spheres. Spherecasters in general have access to all spheres (regardless of casting tradition; i.e. wizards and sorcerers can grab the Life sphere, druids can grab the Illusion sphere, etc), whereas the individual spherecaster rarely invests in more than 3 spheres. If you want to personally limit yourself to those 6 spheres that is fine, but it shouldn't be a hard limit on the class itself.

[rs2excelsior]

This may have been the thread you were looking for.

Once a character gains a momentum talent, they may as a standard action spend a spell point to gain a momentum pool (equal to Caster Level + Casting Ability Modifier). As long as the caster has a momentum pool, allies (including yourself) may spend momentum to utilize any momentum talents the caster possesses. Once the pool is empty (or expires), it requires the caster to spend another spell point as a standard action to refill the momentum pool.

Aye, that's the one. For some reason the search function wasn't turning it up. Ah well.

So -using- a momentum talent is a swift action (or the action listed in the description) that either the caster or an ally can do, and -refilling- the momentum pool is a standard action that only the caster can take, correct? That was more or less what I thought I remembered but the description is not very clear (at least as it's written in the wikidot). The line about using any momentum talent refilling the pool particularly causes some confusion there.

[A.J.Gibson]

This may have been the thread you were looking for.

Once a character gains a momentum talent, they may as a standard action spend a spell point to gain a momentum pool (equal to Caster Level + Casting Ability Modifier). As long as the caster has a momentum pool, allies (including yourself) may spend momentum to utilize any momentum talents the caster possesses. Once the pool is empty (or expires), it requires the caster to spend another spell point as a standard action to refill the momentum pool.

[LanaKane]Yuuup.[/LanaKane]

As I've said before, there is a difference between casting haste, and using the extra attack haste grants.

[A.J.Gibson]

Aye, that's the one. For some reason the search function wasn't turning it up. Ah well.

So -using- a momentum talent is a swift action (or the action listed in the description) that either the caster or an ally can do, and -refilling- the momentum pool is a standard action that only the caster can take, correct? That was more or less what I thought I remembered but the description is not very clear (at least as it's written in the wikidot). The line about using any momentum talent refilling the pool particularly causes some confusion there.

I need to type faster.

'Using the momentum talent' means using the sphere ability. You use the momentum talent to fill or refill your momentum pool.

Using the ability granted by the momentum talent is not a sphere ability (no more than using the extra attack from haste is casting a spell), and takes as long as the talent states.

[death390]

mehangle the reason why i had the cap on 6 spheres was that the class is a limited class like the warmage, healer, and such. the whole point of them is that they are limited in scope and such. otherwise why play sorcerer? it has the same number of spells per day as a sorcerer normally. but gets much much more per class level.

a sorc gets 2+int skills pluss a tiny list of skills and only get familiar feat in dnd 3.5. the beguiler gets 6+int a rouge-like selection of skills and several major bonuses (trapfinding, armored casting [light], flat-footed casting, advanced learning (+1 talent @3, 7, 11, 15, 19: mind/illusion) and 2 metamagic)

there has to be a kind of balance. i thought that 6/20 possible spheres (with about 10 being normally accessible by thier normal spells) would be a decent balance mechanic AND if allowed to use this style in my later characters give new combinations to use later. since if allowed to do any/everything is boring.


this is not to mention that don't you think that some classes should NOT have access to certain spheres. arcane shouldn't have access to life for example. only druid should have access to weather, ect.