Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

[Blackhawk748]

MkIII marines and Tartaros Termies are up for pre-order now, but the interesting thing is the site says they can be added to a Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines force, so we might be seeing rules for the termies to be taken in Chaos armies, which could be interesting since we got stiffed on Cataphracti.

Sweeping Assault Termis, nice

[Grim Portent]

Not mine, but I had to share this.

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Within a day someone has converted Guilliman into the Emperor.

[bluntpencil]

Not mine, but I had to share this.

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Within a day someone has converted Guilliman into the Emperor.

Guilliman probably dresses like this when nobody's looking, because he really wants to usurp the Emperor! /jk

[Theodoric]

MkIII marines and Tartaros Termies are up for pre-order now, but the interesting thing is the site says they can be added to a Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines force, so we might be seeing rules for the termies to be taken in Chaos armies, which could be interesting since we got stiffed on Cataphracti.

More likely it's 'counts as', as a more 'historically accurate' option than the current CSM models.

Personally I never saw the point of having different rules for different armour variants. Armour's generally very abstracted, fiddling with that by adding unnecessary detail doesn't lead to neat results.

[Cheesegear]

Super Friends, Redux

Ultramarines, Victrix Strike Force
- Battle Demi-Company
Captain Sicarius - 175 Points

Tactical Squad (x10); Grav-Gun, Combi-Grav + Rhino - 200 Points
Tactical Squad (x5); Meltagun, Combi-Melta + Drop Pod - 125 Points
Tactical Squad (x5); Meltagun, Combi-Melta + Drop Pod - 125 Points

Assault Squad (x5); x2 Flamers + Drop Pod - 115 Points

Devastators (x5); x2 Grav-Cannons and Grav-Amps + Rhino - 175 Points

- Strike Force Command
(W) Roboute Guilliman - 350 Points

- Librarius Conclave
Chief Librarian Tigurius - 165 Points
Librarian; [Stave], Auspex, Melta Bombs - 75 Points
Librarian; [Stave], Auspex, - 70 Points

- Storm Wing
Land Speeder - 45 Points
Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 115 Points
Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 115 Points

Total: 1850 Points

[Bobby Baratheon]

Turnout was good tonight for the Kill Team tourney. So good, in fact, that it was just me and one other dude. So we had a little fun with it and used a custom scenario involving a radstorm that partially obscured units farther than 6" away and damaged anyone out in the open for more than a turn. My list went up against an Astra Militarum list with some tricked out Veteran squads, some autocannon HWTs, and a Sentinel.

The result. . . a crushing victory for me, 7 VP to 1. Holy hell, the Secutarii are just straight up unfair in Kill team. I can hide them totally out of sight of his guys and still pound them. I can kill a sentinel through volume of fire from 30" away. Flechette blasters are just ridiculous. I lost five models in the whole match, while he narrowly avoided being tabled because his medic and almost dead commander passed eight FNP checks in the final round. I don't even know how he could have won that. He had good positioning and entrenched models in good cover, but the Secutarii and the Vanguard (who, as always, performed excellently) just burned through them lke they were barely there. I didn't even cheese with them as hard as I could have (the parabolic shot is especially abusive with the terrain we had set up). The inqusitorial chimera did good yeoman work as well, what with the six S6 AP4 shots a round and the goons inside with the hot shot lasguns. He didn't seem to torqued by it, though, and we had an interesting chat for about half and hour afterwards about how he might squeeze more out of his codex.

[Drasius]

Why am I not seeing an UM CAD with Girlyman, Tiggy, grav cents in a pod and anything else (probably a librariaus conclave incase you don't roll your switching power with tiggy)? You pod the cents in, switch places with girlyman and all is well with the world. If tiggy rolls electrodisplacement early, then fish for perfect timing, job's a good'un boss. With tiggy and an ML2 libby, that's "only" a 1 in6 chance that you don't get Electrodisplacemnt, with a 1/4 chance if it's just tiggy (so you can have a catacaptain with grav devs in another pod to really ensure your opponent gets bent over hard first turn).

[Cheesegear]

Why am I not seeing an UM CAD with Girlyman, Tiggy, grav cents in a pod and anything else (probably a librariaus conclave incase you don't roll your switching power with tiggy)?

Grav Centurions are too expensive, especially when you throw in the mandatory Scouts aren't going to do anything. The Conclave is in the Victrix anyway.

You pod the cents in, switch places with girlyman and all is well with the world.

If I'm 'Podding Centurions in, they're not switching out. The Shooting Phase is after the Psychic Phase. The turn your Centurions come down is their most valuable turn, and you're not wasting that turn teleporting yourself out of range. I'd rather the Storm Wing to shoot down Daemons and Flyrants. Guilliman is actually not good at dealing with Magnus.

[LeSwordfish]

I'd rather the Storm Wing to shoot down Daemons and Flyrants. Guilliman is actually not good at dealing with Magnus.

With Mortarion and presumably Angron coming sooner or later, possibly both with wings, i'd like to suggest a new portmanteau for "primarch with wings": Flymarch.

EDIT: There's a lot that I like about the new book. The scenarios, daemonic adversaries, and characters are all pretty neat, and though i'm not terribly impressed by the fluff i'm willing to give the resolution a tentative thumbs up.

[Drasius]

Grav Centurions are too expensive, especially when you throw in the mandatory Scouts aren't going to do anything. The Conclave is in the Victrix anyway.

That must be the first time since they came out that someone has said that. They're really, really good for the points.

If I'm 'Podding Centurions in, they're not switching out. The Shooting Phase is after the Psychic Phase. The turn your Centurions come down is their most valuable turn, and you're not wasting that turn teleporting yourself out of range. I'd rather the Storm Wing to shoot down Daemons and Flyrants. Guilliman is actually not good at dealing with Magnus.

But you're not out of range. You pod in where Robby-G can have an easy charge, he moves forward 6" (so he's 18" away from their DZ), you swap places with Tiggy, you then place the Cents in base with tiggy, and since there's only 3 of them, you place them as close as you can towards the enemy, effectively gaining additional inches by [base size of a centurion]. As long as they didn't deploy waaaaay back or >30" away from RG (possible but unlikely), then you're fine. In the second case, you pod down somewhere tempting, pew pew your targets and then EDP next turn when they send something after your juicy target.

[Randomatic]

Super Friends, Redux

- Storm Wing
Land Speeder - 45 Points
Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 115 Points
Stormtalon; Skyhammer Missile Launcher - 115 Points

There is only one small problem here, this is a Raptor Wing, not the Storm Wing.

Unfortunately the Victrix isn't like the other cool kid formations that get the Raptor Wing.

[Cheesegear]

That must be the first time since they came out that someone has said that.

It definitely isn't the first time someone has said that Centurions are too expensive.

Unfortunately the Victrix isn't like the other cool kid formations that get the Raptor Wing.

Well spotted.
Might just have to take a CAD after all.

[Grim Portent]

Has anyone faced/used the 40k Custodes rules? I'm wondering how they actually do as a unit.

My gut says they have too much of the problems terminators do, but I'm curious if that's how things actually work out in practice.

[peacenlove]

Has anyone faced/used the 40k Custodes rules? I'm wondering how they actually do as a unit.

My gut says they have too much of the problems terminators do, but I'm curious if that's how things actually work out in practice.

They are better paladins. But they somehow need to get an invurnerable save to be durable.
However presumably new codex will give them a land raider as dedicated transport.

[Wraith]

They are better paladins. But they somehow need to get an invurnerable save to be durable.
However presumably new codex will give them a land raider as dedicated transport.

Bell of Lost Souls has show pictures of the Talons of the Emperor boxed set, which is a pile of Custodes including both a Custodian-themed Rhino (for the Sisters) and a Custodian Land Raider. So there's your answer for that one, at least.

As to how they currently are as a unit, "Better Paladins" is pretty much the whole of it. If they get into close combat they will wreck whatever they touch in short order, but they have no dedicated transport and at present they have no invulnerable save unless you take them as the Custodian Formation (which requires ~3 squads of them for a cumulative bonus, which is ~800 points for a mere 5++) or ally them to something, like Dark Angels and keep them inside of Azrael's bubble or something like that. So, don't let them foot-slog into combat and you can needle them to death like ordinary Terminators, really.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't custodes have the option of taking a storm shield for 10 ppm?

[Grim Portent]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't custodes have the option of taking a storm shield for 10 ppm?

They can but then they only have a power sword for melee, and the spear is a big buff compared to the sword.

A mix of sword and shield and spears in a unit solves that issue, just have 2/3 guys in front with shields and 2/3 guys with spears in the back, but the only way to field them gives them an invulnerable if you take multiple units anyway, so it's of dubious value if you field more than 2 units.

[Cheesegear]

Use a Librarius Conclave; Electric Slide.

[Grim Portent]

It might be better to use the Shifting Worldscape power, since you can charge from it without needing a unit near the enemy to do it, and Custodes + a Conclave is going to be a lot of points already before you add in units in Drop Pods.

[Cheesegear]

It might be better to use the Shifting Worldscape power

Worldscape is banned in my meta. Which means I'm rarely - if ever - going to bring it up, competitively.

[DaedalusMkV]

It might be better to use the Shifting Worldscape power, since you can charge from it without needing a unit near the enemy to do it, and Custodes + a Conclave is going to be a lot of points already before you add in units in Drop Pods.

Or you could just pull the enemy unit to you. Or surf destroyed Rhinos around the board at lightspeed. Or move enemy units into terrible positions, or steal objectives from your opponent without giving him any conceivable means to react.

Huh, what do you know. Turns out Worldscape is broken and needs to be banned. Someone should get on that.

[Bobby Baratheon]

It's not hard to get a unit in position for a Turn 1 electrodisplacement charge. Callidus Assassins and Drop Pods are your friends.

[Cheesegear]

Has anyone faced/used the 40k Custodes rules? I'm wondering how they actually do as a unit.

Better than Paladins (not saying much), worse than Wulfen (not saying much).
Their major - and biggest - issue is that they're slow. Traditionally, this means allying in some Space Marine Librarians and Doing A Thing. Alternatively, their new rules are going to give them Land Raiders, except I don't see how that's better, because Land Raiders are expensive and also terrible. Except, if you're rolling for one of the Movement Powers, it means you're not rolling for Invisibility, and Melee units really like being Invisible - and Shroud being a far second. Either way, Librarians get it done.

Their lack of Grenades makes them a terrible Assault unit. Typically, units that don't have Grenades prefer being Charged. Which means moving to a good position and staying there for the rest of the game and hoping that someone wants to Charge your T5 models instead of just shooting them. Except that they aren't even good at that job either, because they aren't Objective Secured. So as soon as your opponent drops an ObSec unit next to your unit that's sat their all game, they take it off you. They probably wouldn't even Charge, because they would lose. They would just shoot. Of course, that wouldn't work in Eternal War, because then the Custodes just Charge, murder, and then take the Objective back.

No Invulnerables. Custodes are extremely vulnerable to multiple AP2 attacks; Grav, or Misfortune will render them pointless for the rest of the game in one Turn, two turns will destroy them. This is obviously fixed by giving them Storm Shields, where they lose their AP2 (Melee units need AP2) and their Ranged attack...For whatever that's worth. Custodes are not Relentless, and they're a Melee unit. Why do they carry Boltguns again? At least Honour Guard have Pistols as well. ...And why do Custodes have Power Knives?

Anyway, losing the Spears make Custodes bad at their jobs (that's why you bring a Psyker with Psychic Shriek +/- Invisibility). But Storm Shields give them survivability. Except that the Storm Shield models will shoot to 60 Points per model, plus you want to put them in a Land Raider now? Really!?

Overall, Custodes are a thoroughly mediocre unit, leaning towards 'bad', if your meta is even slightly competitive. So, objectively, they're better than Paladins. But Paladins are trash and being 'better than Paladins' is not a benchmark to be proud of.

The Sisters of Silence are a quality unit though. Mostly because they're 15 points per model and actually playable.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Is there a cost effective way to use land raiders other than as BT objective secured dedicated transports? I could just use a BT CAD with a cheap HQ and two tactical squads with land raiders. Mine are collecting a bit too much dust, so I was curious if there are any hax out there I haven't thought of for making land raiders okay.

[Cheesegear]

Is there a cost effective way to use land raiders other than as BT objective secured dedicated transports?

Land Raider Spearhead. There are three of them, so your opponent has to divide their fire, and they're immune to the Damage Table except 7s.
This is basically the only way to use Land Raiders.

Posted from phone.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Land Raider Spearhead. There are three of them, so your opponent has to divide their fire, and they're immune to the Damage Table except 7s.
This is basically the only way to use Land Raiders.

Posted from phone.

Sadly, I only have two land raiders. I guess I'll just stick to a LR Crusader in a BT allied detachment for an extremely annoying unit with Objective Secured.

In other news, has anyone heard more news from the Gathering Storm book? Did Cypher actually kill Abaddon, or did plot armor save him?

[Professor Gnoll]

In other news, has anyone heard more news from the Gathering Storm book? Did Cypher actually kill Abaddon, or did plot armor save him?

Spoiler: Gathering Storm III

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Nope. Abaddon doesn't even appear at all. Cypher gets to Terra, but is immediately imprisoned and denied access to the Emperor despite his insistence that he be allowed to see him.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Well that blows. Here I was getting all excited about the potential for

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someone else to step in and take the reins for Chaos, like a coalition of Lorgar, Mortarion and Angron. With potential for Magnus and Fulgrim to get in on the action.

[LeSwordfish]

If there are people wondering about the Gathering storm books, some generous handsome soul is doing a Let's Read in the fluff thread right now.

[Renegade Paladin]

Spoiler: Gathering Storm III

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Nope. Abaddon doesn't even appear at all. Cypher gets to Terra, but is immediately imprisoned and denied access to the Emperor despite his insistence that he be allowed to see him.

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What did he think was going to happen? The only thing that doesn't fit isn't that he wasn't permitted access to the Imperial Palace, but rather that he wasn't executed on the spot.