Is 4 hours every other Saturday really too much to ask?

[The Cats]

3/6 players "I'll try to make it but can't make any promises."

Last session one of them didn't come because he decided to see a movie instead. But hey! That's cool! You don't have to give me any notice or anything, it's not like I spend most of my Sundays preparing these games. I'm sure it was a really good movie.

Let's find some new players! Should be easy in a small town with a tiny game shop/internet cafe that has plenty of MTG, warhammer, and Yugioh merchandise. Oh and a couple DnD 4e campaign setting books collecting dust in a corner. I checked. That's all they have. Why doesn't anyone in this town like the my kind of fun?

Guess I'll just introduce some half-interested friends to the game. That worked great last time. Or I can join the game my friends I know from back in highschool keep inviting me to as a player. Good thing I'm a big fan of getting high and drunk while I play and being rewarded for murdering things with getting to have sex with things otherwise that would seem unappealing!

Ok, done angry ranting. It's probably not as bad as all that but I'm just getting super annoyed with how hard it's been to get a good group together for the last 4 years up here.

[Lentrax]

I hear you on that.

[Zurvan]

Yes it is too much.

[Cisturn]

I'm sorry dude. That sounds pretty stressful. Also your high school group sounds a little strange too. It sounds fun if that's what you're into, or nightmarish if you're not.

Maybe you could talk to your group about scheduling a different day. I know for me, Saturday is a weird day to play on, since there always seems like there's something else going on. Family birthday parties, friends visiting from out of time, weekend get away type things. Lots of stuff that might take priority over game night as well.

Maybe you could talk to your group about switching to a weekday? Or switching to playing online if everyone can't meet up, or has to be up early the next day. I know it's not ideal. But it could be something to consider.

[Knaight]

First things first - for some people it is too much to ask, because they have limited control over their schedules. It happens.

3/6 players "I'll try to make it but can't make any promises."

A group of three players plus a GM is totally functional, and reasonable people understand having to leave an event that requires regular attendance they can't do. This sounds like a self solving problem.

[Vitruviansquid]

Yeah, that sucks. But that is only phase 1.

Phase 2 is: "Well, people keep missing the game and we keep having to cancel, so I figure there would be no game this Saturday. That's why I didn't show up and gave no notice."

Phase 3 is: "GM should've told me earlier that we weren't going to have enough players for Saturday, then I would've had plans on Saturday!" ignoring the fact that you can't know when your players decided to flake in order to underman your game.



But in any case, I find this is effective:

Establish right away if you would like to play RPGs, it is a commitment.

Let your group know that...

1. The GM takes some time to prepare for games.
2. Everybody else is, presumably, giving up things they could be doing on Saturday to play the RPG.

That way, it is a real **** move to cancel without telling people, or cancel at the last minute, or cancel for something minor like seeing a movie. If you want to drop out of the game, that is fine, but so long as you say you are a member of the group, you have to make the sessions.

Now, RPGs is not the ultimate responsibility, and we don't want people to actually stress over making a game, so let the rule simply be - if you can't make a session, you are buying pizza or beer for the group next week. If multiple people can't make a session, they are splitting the cost of pizza. You may wish to make exceptions. For example, if you need to ditch the game to have a hot date, sure. Or, tell people to go ahead and have the hot date and then pay for pizza. It is up to them to judge whether whatever they're doing is worth the price of pizza.

If they want to make other plans, inform the group before - let's say - Thursday. That is on top of buying pizza. Not at the very least informing the group should be known as a very **** move.

[Grimmnist]

Piling onto the ranting, I feel the pain of people cancelling but my big pet peeve is people on their phones during the session. They don't need to be playing Hearthstone right now we're already playing a game, then afterwards he complained about not having an impact in game.

I've been trying to come up with ways to get the character more involved in the story so I should be able improve the situation, just wanted to complain.

[herceg]

Piling onto the ranting, I feel the pain of people cancelling but my big pet peeve is people on their phones during the session. They don't need to be playing Hearthstone right now we're already playing a game, then afterwards he complained about not having an impact in game.

I've been trying to come up with ways to get the character more involved in the story so I should be able improve the situation, just wanted to complain.

Have a basket, make a policy that everyone have to put their phones into it before game stars.
No excuse, anyone picking up their phone pays phone-tax (be it xp, snacks, pizza for the dm, whatever fits by your group). Those unwilling should be cut loose.

To the OP:
You better stick to those who want to make it and forget those who don't care. It's better not to play than to play with such unmotivated people who don't give enough **** to give you a headsup (or who pick a movie instead of gaming).
I've been gaming for the last twenty-odd years and only since 4-5 years have a regular group with DM and players as enthusiastic as I am, so I've been in your shoes, it never worths it sadly (but easy to think it does, when there's no alternative). On the long run though they just poison your attitude, so better get rid of them.

[Alanzeign]

Yes it is too much.

If it is too much for people to show up on a bi-weekly basis then it is too much of them to ask you to GM for them, especially since they give no notice, period. It is a commitment that you prepare for and when people don't show up on a whim it is exceedingly disrespectful. Unfortunately, you may not be in a position to replace such members. If this is the case and it is an ongoing thing I would recommend taking a break for a while, as trying to keep things going as is will only put a large amount of stress on you and make the game as a whole less enjoyable.

If for some people it is too much to ask, that is fine. They can also respectfully withdraw from the game. The person choosing a movie over the time everyone else has set aside for a gaming activity is wasting not only the time of the DM but everyone involved.

This is a simple thing that adults do all the time. People raid in MMORPGs and you are supposed to have set that time aside. People make plans to watch movies, go to the dog park, help repair a swingset, etc. Generally it is expected that if scheduled, people show up. When people don't show up often enough, people stop expecting them to show up and there is no longer a place for them reserved at said activity. It's a normal part of life when someone doesn't show up that another willing person takes their place. Of course there are exceptions giving that everyone playing is an adult human, but exceptions are by definition the minority. Players and GMs alike need to respect the time commitment set aside by everyone involved for playing, which actively keeps people from doing anything else during that time. One person's time is not more important than the other, but communication regarding things that come up (that aren't frivolous, such as watching a movie instead) goes a long way.

[Darth Ultron]

Yes, it is too much to ask for most people. But then that is why most people don't make good gamers. The only real solution is to be strict: if people don't show up, then you kick them out of the game. And you have to except nothing less then their house exploding as a good excise for them to miss a game. Anything less then that will just annoy you has they will all ways have a reason to miss 9 out of 10 games. So if they call up and are like ''I can't game tonight, the baby has a cold'', your better off just saying ''I understand, maybe we can game again in 18 years or so''.

Way too many people, known as casual gamers, just think of the game as a default ''well if I have nothing better to do'' type of thing. You don't want any of this type of person in your game. They will always not show up, as long as they can find something else to do.

Another side of the causal gamer to avoid is the one with a full life. This is the crazy person that agrees to help someone say paint their whole house starting at like 3 pm on Saturday and then, this clueless person will somehow automatiacly think they will be ''done'' hours before the Game starts at 6PM. They are wrong of course....they will be painting by flashlights until 1am.... Of course, they will call every hour or so and be like ''I'll be there, I just need to paint the whole house...so like ten more minutes. "

Even if you live in a town of like 400 people, there are still more people. It can be worth it to find them.

[Misereor]

3/6 players "I'll try to make it but can't make any promises."

Last session one of them didn't come because he decided to see a movie instead. But hey! That's cool! You don't have to give me any notice or anything, it's not like I spend most of my Sundays preparing these games. I'm sure it was a really good movie.

Let's find some new players! Should be easy in a small town with a tiny game shop/internet cafe that has plenty of MTG, warhammer, and Yugioh merchandise. Oh and a couple DnD 4e campaign setting books collecting dust in a corner. I checked. That's all they have. Why doesn't anyone in this town like the my kind of fun?

Guess I'll just introduce some half-interested friends to the game. That worked great last time. Or I can join the game my friends I know from back in highschool keep inviting me to as a player. Good thing I'm a big fan of getting high and drunk while I play and being rewarded for murdering things with getting to have sex with things otherwise that would seem unappealing!

Ok, done angry ranting. It's probably not as bad as all that but I'm just getting super annoyed with how hard it's been to get a good group together for the last 4 years up here.

I think most groups have had your problem at one time or another.
We've tried solving it by moved sessions from Sundays to Fridays to Saturdays, and eventually back to Sundays. Tried changing the frequency and number of hours. E.g. every third week instead of every second, but for 2 hours longer. We tried adding more players so we could afford to have 1-2 absentees, and we've tried having fewer, but more dedicated players. We tried scheduling sessions months in advance and we tried confirming schedules a few days before sessions. Some of it worked, some didn't and some worked for a time only.

What we found most effective in the end was making clear to everyone that when other people make plans that depend on you and you cancel at the last moment, you are keeping them from making other plans and basically screwing up their whole weekend. Two players stepped up and improved their attendance, and a third decided he would rather offer up his spot at the table for someone else, than angering the rest of us on a regular basis. That was 3 years ago, and thus far we've managed to keep everyone in the group and near 100% attendance rate.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Learn to game around the players you have, not the players you want to have.

I've been gaming all my adolescent and adult life, about 30 years in all. In my experience, people have real lives, and other kinds of fun to enjoy! If you demand that they give up the chance to spontaneously have other fun, then they're going to either ignore that demand, or leave.
I ran games for a few years at my local club - every single week. It was stressful, and hard work, and players came and went. People showed up or didn't, and I had to deal with it. So I had to fit my games around the fact that players might be absent at any given session.

See, before I was married, if I got a date at short notice (for example - other kinds of fun are available), then of course my game commitments would be dropped! And I rested assured in the knowledge that my good friends would understand. Because I don't usually play games with people who aren't my friends - that's too much like competition or sports or something, not something I'd call play time. Sometimes, new gamers become new friends.

To those on this thread saying "kick them out", I say "Good bye! It wasn't nice gaming with you!" - again, because I want to play with friends, and friends are always happy if you can join in.

[2D8HP]

Instead of 4 hours every other week, make it two hours every week and change the time.

Also you say 3 out of 6 flake most weeks, do you have at least two who are consistent?

[mephnick]

Wait until people start having kids and jobs with varying schedules.

We play like 10 times a year.

[Zombimode]

Saturday is the Problem. Try Sundays or under the week (except Fridays). EVERYONE aims for saturday, thus it is the worst day for a regular schedule.

Under the week (except Friday which is similar to saturday) on the other Hand, most People do either nothing at the evening or have something regular going (like Sports or Underwater Basket Weaving Club or whatever). IF you manage to find a day for a regular schedule with enough people this tends to be very stable.

Sundays is a bit more attractive (since you are not limited to evenings), but also more difficult but by far not as difficult as Fridays and Saturdays.

[Jay R]

D&D will never be the number one priority for your friends. Jobs, relationships, school, other hobbies and many other things will always compete for their time.

I can't simply give up a block of time months from now to D&D.

So yes, 4 hours every other Saturday really is too much to ask. Any automatic time frame that arbitrarily puts D&D ahead of all the rest of my life is too much to ask.

I just received an email from my DM - he's checking to see if enough people can play this Saturday. We did last Saturday, for the first time in a couple of months.

That's normal life. D&D does not come first even for only 4 hours every other Saturday.

You'll have to schedule each game separately, just like you do every date, every shopping trip, every vacation, and every other occasional activity.

[Lord Torath]

Four hours every other Saturday may, indeed, be too much to ask. What should not be too much to ask is that your players let you know ahead of time whether they can make it. Talk to your players about the opportunity costs they are imposing on you when they simply don't show up, and urge them to let you know before-hand. Rules like no-call no-shows buy pizza next time can work, depending on your players. But get them to agree to it before implementing it, and be prepared to be reasonable in emergency situations (kid gets hurt, car breaks down, etc.).

[Geigan]

My group runs it on a weekly basis. If you're not there, tough luck. Your character goes in the box of "things this story doesn't care to acknowledge right now". Maybe the GM cares enough to give your character a reason to be doing things while he's not there, but priority tends to go to the players who are there and ready to play. If you can't be there, nothing held against you. You just aren't there this session. If a majority of players don't show up, we don't play.

But we actually run two games. One is the main game where most of the players show up regularly, and one is considered the "off" game. The GM for the off game flat out told players he was going to run without them if they didn't bother to show up. He's running an NPC cleric just to make up for players that don't feel the need to show up regularly, because he knew some of them tended to have difficult schedules. Before that there was another off game that failed because it relied on 4 out of 4 players to be there, and 2 of them weren't always consistent, which is why the GM that took over afterwards decided to say no, we're doing this regularly come hell or high water. 1 of the players dropped off, the other became more regular. The point is, when the game is consistent, the people who actually want to be there will make time (assuming no additional drama/actual difficulties of course).

[Slipperychicken]

My group has an online chat where we state our availability for the weekend and make a decision about what time is best. It keeps things relatively flexible since we all have shifting obligations and can fit time wherever we have it. We rarely do the exact same time every weekend.

Often times when we meet, we don't even play RPGs, instead opting for "normal" social activities like movies, TV, hitting the beach, or going to an arcade. I like it a lot more than when roleplaying was literally the only thing we did together. It probably makes for a more balanced social life somehow.

[OverdrivePrime]

It depends where you're at in life. When I was in high school 3-4 hours on a Friday night (Saturdays during fall for sports reasons) was pretty standard. We didn't have other social commitments because we *were* our main social group.

College was optimal for gaming - Work, 15 credits, an over-indulgent social life and still plenty of time for 2 different games a week.

At 40 though, man... I don't have time for a four-hour block of anything, and neither does the rest of my group. We play as close to weekly as family and work commitments allow, usually about 2-2.5 hours on a Wednesday. Far from optimal, but at least we get to get together and play pretty often.

[Cealocanth]

If people are too busy on Saturdays (and I can't blame them. Everything happens on Saturdays), I would suggest moving to online or that local games store on a weekday night. Thursdays are often pretty good. Make it weekly, running from around 7 PM to 9 PM. You will have better attendance that way. If you're doing online you also have the option of getting playera from other places in the world, which broadens your potential playerbase quite a bit. Be sure to have a thorough understanding of time zones, however.

[DaveOTN]

Saturday is the Problem. Try Sundays or under the week (except Fridays). EVERYONE aims for saturday, thus it is the worst day for a regular schedule.

Under the week (except Friday which is similar to saturday) on the other Hand, most People do either nothing at the evening or have something regular going (like Sports or Underwater Basket Weaving Club or whatever). IF you manage to find a day for a regular schedule with enough people this tends to be very stable.

Sundays is a bit more attractive (since you are not limited to evenings), but also more difficult but by far not as difficult as Fridays and Saturdays.

This may not solve your problem but it's worth considering. Saturdays are tough for any type of scheduling, especially as people get older and start doing things out of town more often. Out of your group of seven people (you plus the players), the chances that one or two people are going to be visiting friends, going camping, taking a day trip, visiting relatives, or whatever on any given Saturday are pretty high. It may be worth trying a weekday evening if you're all local and have similar work schedules, even if you have to cut down to three hours and be prompt about it. Nobody arranges to go out of town on a weekday and rather than complain about how "We can never do anything because of your D&D game," spouses and partners are likely to take the hint from your set game night every Thursday and do their own thing with their friends on the same schedule.

[Mastikator]

Yes that's way too much, I wouldn't be able to make the majority of those sessions.

[Corsair14]

Yeah, my wife would have a fit if I played 4 hours every other weekend. A weeknight I could get away with, weekends are when stuff needs to get done. My group is lucky lately to get together once a month on a Monday night.

PS: Since on reading it sounds like you are in high school, remember chicks always take priority over a game even at the last minute.

[FreddyNoNose]

Allow players to have multiple characters. Say up to three of four characters that each COULD run in the session. If a random player shows up, great if not, then let your players run more than one character. Back in the day, some DMs would let you decide which character to run that session. And that is ok even if you think hey we are in the middle of the dungeon and you had your half-orc last week and now you want to play your elf. It is ok to allow that in some games.

[Jay R]

Once you get past school and into a complex life, it's almost impossible to schedule a hobby or game slot that never moves. There are too many real-life commitments and tasks that don't follow a perfect unchanging schedule.

So you need to schedule each session individually. And even so, you need to recognize that you won't get everyone there for each session.

Some weekends you'll have to reschedule to a different time. Sometimes you'll have three weeks in a row, and other times you'll go a month or two without being able to make a session.

The game is not anybody's number one priority. Shopping, chores, home maintenance, car maintenance, overtime, relatives, and many other things come first.

[Winter_Wolf]

It occurs to me that this problem of getting everyone together consistently is why old D&D was mostly one shot dungeons and multiple characters in a pool. You played with who showed up and with a character that worked for the session. I doubt that it's super compatible with anything post 2nd edition, but it probably works for many other RPGs; Shadowrun strikes me as a prime candidate for it and it fits just about perfectly with gathering some runners for a raid or extraction.

[Max_Killjoy]

One of reasons I was so eager to go from work that could schedule 7 days a week, morning or evening hours, to a job with regular weekday daytime hours only, was so that I could actually have reliable free time on the weekends to game.

This is not how it worked out.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Most people have the ability to set aside a block of four hours and consistently make it every week, with exceptions for emergencies and unusual circumstances. People do exist with genuinely chaotic lives that can be called on to perform critical tasks at any moment, but they're relatively few and far between.

What it comes down to is how much effort people are willing to put in to dedicating a time block to leisure activity. They have to be willing to make a declaration that they are Unavailable for anything other than emergencies at that time, every week. A lot of people aren't willing to make that level of commitment, and that's fine. The best thing to do is play with people who share a level of commitment with you, otherwise you're going to be driving each other crazy.

Edit - also be willing to consider tech solutions. If someone is traveling a lot then consider setting up a way for them to play over the internet instead.

[scalyfreak]

Whether it's too much to ask or not, depends on the people involved. Adults with busy lives still manage to show up for their child's evening activities once a week, to make that volunteer commitment of a few hours every weekend, et cetera.

Scheduling comes down to priorities. Unfortunately, a that hobby has no other benefit than to keep you happy, but requires several hours to do so, may not be something it's possible to prioritize, when compared to other commitments and the effects they have on a much larger number of people around us.That's life.