OOTS #1076 - The Discussion Thread

[Mandor]

The Giant announced that he was taking steps to resolve the Smurfette syndrome of the OotS by having introduced a new female main character. I suspect that'd be Bandana. If so, she's probably here to stay.

Jasdoif, would you mind digging up the relevant quote?

Thanks in advance,

Grey Wolf

Though, one should note, having even more female characters would eliminate said syndrome even more.
And the giantess, was not shown dying.
Perhaps it's all understood, but I was in the camp that Belkar was toast during his fall, and the glow was just his protection from evil trinket. And I was wrong then.

[The_Weirdo]

Cool plan, but it kind of doesn't make sense. Civilian ships had weapons on them, so removing them wouldn't decrease suspicion.

But then again, my proof are letters from 18th century American leaders, so I'm guessing they won't help with a fictional universe.

Maybe different regulations are put on ships than in real life? But if there are, how are ships in this world supposed to protect themselves from pirates? Do civilian ships have to assemble a military convoy every time they embark?

Let me put it this way: you walk around with a 38, you're a guy with a gun.

You you walk around with a 38, two rifles, one shotgun, one sub-machine gun, two bandoliers with ammo and four knives, people ask questions.

[Ralanr]

Roy: No time for another subplot, we got a world to save.

[Dr.Zero]

I understand the need to go all Vin Diesel and wait for the last moment before showing the trick that solves the situation, but activating a vertical boost (leaving aside the fact that I'm still wondering why the ship doesn't tilt) with the ballistas still up there, seems like a big waste of energy (therefore, of fuel), which is spent to increase the ballistas' potential energy, which, eventually, just translates in a louder "CRACK" when they reach floor zero.

Of course, being Scoundrel's ship, maybe if you do something a la Vin Diesel, that gives you a bonus in fuel big enough to compensate.

On a side note: this is the first time that I read "zoom zoom" used in place of "zip it/shush/leave it alone". My collection of slang terms is steadily increasing, reading this comic.

[Wildroses]

I got to admit part of me is disappointed that the mutinous crew doesn't get to face the Wrath of the Order and lose their promised bonus. But I think Bandana is making the right choice not throwing her crew under a bus. Her loyalty is to them, not the Order. And Roy is making the right choice not to ask too many questions and stopping Elan from asking them, which must be hard personally considering he lost his precious sword.

Mind you, it may still come out. They still have to find Haley, V and Belkar who may want to know why the ship sailed away from them. No guarantee they'll all take the: "Don't ask" approach Roy is going with.

Yeah, the Mechane are going regret losing their weapons, but I don't see they had another choice right now. Nice work, Andi, nice work...

[oppyu]

I got to admit part of me is disappointed that the mutinous crew doesn't get to face the Wrath of the Order and lose their promised bonus. But I think Bandana is making the right choice not throwing her crew under a bus. Her loyalty is to them, not the Order. And Roy is making the right choice not to ask too many questions and stopping Elan from asking them, which must be hard personally considering he lost his precious sword.

Mind you, it may still come out. They still have to find Haley, V and Belkar who may want to know why the ship sailed away from them. No guarantee they'll all take the: "Don't ask" approach Roy is going with.

Yeah, the Mechane are going regret losing their weapons, but I don't see they had another choice right now. Nice work, Andi, nice work...

To be fair, even if Bandana did throw her crew under the bus, what exactly would the Order do?

"Okay, now you're not getting paid for this!"
"Oh, okay, now we're flying somewhere else that isn't certain death. Hope you heroes can find your own way to Plot Mountain."

[ORione]

On a side note: this is the first time that I read "zoom zoom" used in place of "zip it/shush/leave it alone". My collection of slang terms is steadily increasing, reading this comic.

"Zoom" is an onomatopoeia for the sound a car makes, so it has connotations of movement. Roy's continuing his "let's just keep moving" thought. In and of itself, "zoom" isn't related to being quiet.

[Wildroses]

To be fair, even if Bandana did throw her crew under the bus, what exactly would the Order do?

"Okay, now you're not getting paid for this!"
"Oh, okay, now we're flying somewhere else that isn't certain death. Hope you heroes can find your own way to Plot Mountain."

If this forum allowed upvoting I would upvote the hell out of this. Plot Mountain, lol.

[stsasser]

Zoom zoom nudge nudge wink wink say no more say no more

[Dr.Zero]

"Zoom" is an onomatopoeia for the sound a car makes, so it has connotations of movement. Roy's continuing his "let's just keep moving" thought. In and of itself, "zoom" isn't related to being quiet.

Oh, got it: so more "let's move on" instead of "shush". Thanks.

[Keltest]

I, too, hate when side characters start acting like they matter to the story.

I don't mind when side characters act as, you know, independent characters, but this arc has had a dreadful tendency to completely remove a significant portion of the main cast from the forefront of the action. Durkon, who struggles to stand out on a good day, has been almost nonexistent this arc, and its supposed to be the arc that develops him as a character! And just recently, Roy and the rest of the Order has only really shown up to highlight the problems being caused by Andi's mutiny, which in itself is only serving to create an obstacle that is (thus far) unnecessary both narratively and literally, because the Mechane literally travels at the speed of plot.

[Jasdoif]

I understand the need to go all Vin Diesel and wait for the last moment before showing the trick that solves the situation, but activating a vertical boost (leaving aside the fact that I'm still wondering why the ship doesn't tilt) with the ballistas still up there, seems like a big waste of energy (therefore, of fuel), which is spent to increase the ballistas' potential energy, which, eventually, just translates in a louder "CRACK" when they reach floor zero.

Unless Bandana didn't want to ditch the ballistas if she didn't have to.

[KillingAScarab]

Excellent! The Mechane is full of cool features.

Basically, this was the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang/James Bond's car moment for the story. Well, another one. Ian Fleming would be pleased.

I loved Roy reading between the lines and moving to shut Elan up before he did the same... out loud

GW

ETA: Points to Roy for being smart enough to recognize now is not the time to ask questions , to shut up and move on.

Naturally Elan would pick up on missed plot twists but Roy's got his eye on the ball.

This whole mini-arc was an excellent showcase of Roy's increasing maturity...

It looks like Roy's learned to stop asking questions to which he'd regret learning the answers. Dreams do come true.

And well recognized by Roy that this is the time for not asking questions and moving on. Except that "did we make U-turn?" is very relevant to the issue of moving back to where we were when Roy's Sword went overboard.

My read of this was different. It seems entirely in-line with Roy's ability to not see the concerns of NPCs as relevant to his story. "Thinks the whole campaign revolves around him." I don't think it was a character growth moment, but rather it was entirely in-character for him to ignore the subtext of Bandana's response (and shut up Elan). Yes, this means Roy is focused on his goal of stopping the destruction of the world, but it also means he is too focused and misses details.

This also means Bandana isn't complaining to their high-level adventurer passengers in an effort to get them to enforce her position of authority over the crew. Bandana is doing well to try to gain her crew's trust back with her actions. I do think this could become part of a conversation with Haley, later, when they're nearly at their destination.

[SaintRidley]

Andi's "But--" is absolutely not hinting at anything possibly going wrong, but at her being woefully lacking in knowledge about the ship she thinks she understands. I'd wager $5000 real dollars on that, if I had that.

Wonderful! Wonderful resolution to this part of the arc and great art to boot!

Only one loose end ... what about the sword? We need it.

Minor nitpick: It's " Aye Aye , Captain!" Not "Yes, Captain". Yes is what landlubbers say. "Aye aye" means "I understand and will comply".

It's Andi. We're lucky she's smart enough to comprehend at the level of a landlubber.

[dtilque]

For those who don't have Snips, Snails, & Dragon Tales,

Spoiler

Show

the ballistae were installed on the Mechane for the Soggy Biscuit War. In the epsiode depicted in that book, Curse of the Mummy Queen, the ship does not have them

[Jay R]

Now that the immediate fight is over, how soon does it click for that his sword is in one of an infinite number of snow banks?

About the time Vaarsuvius, Haley, and Belkar show up with his sword, I would guess. Searching snow doesn't seem like the kind of plot Rich usually writes.

That was an amazing trick, but if she studied under Julio, she should know that Rule of Drama will make it absolutely necessary for them to have ballistas later on.

But she will still get them there in the nick of time.

Roy wisely understands that he's better off not knowing the specifics. All this time with Elan has taught him something after all

Is today the day he's been dreaming of? Has he finally learned to stop asking questions to which he will regret learning the answers?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Bet about if dropping the ballista will have consequences beyond disarmament

I'll throw my pretend Internet money in on the "no" side. It doesn't make sense from a Watsonian or Doylist perspective, which is always a bad sign.
Watsonian: Judging by the sound effects of the quick-release levers, it looks like the quick-release levers were little more than specialized giant crowbars. It seems unlikely that anything odd would have been hooked up to them in the meantime (even if Andi felt like fiddling with levers she didn't understand/know about). Given the placement of the turrets, it doesn't seem likely that anything significant would have been added to the outside, either.
Doylist: These past few strips have been an "arc" for Andi. At first she wants to captain the ship, but when she gets a chance, she doesn't know what she's doing and steers the ship into disaster. She learns to listen to Bandana, who does know how to captain and gets them out of that disaster. Having Bandana bring them into comparable or greater disaster would completely negate that whole thing.

For me, the way Andi went wide-eyed and "What?!?! But-" seems like it's setting up some information she really should have brought up more quickly and insistently.

To me, that seemed more like shock on Andi's part that she didn't know everything about the ship. Drop "about the ship," and you have the lesson Andi should have learned from all of this.

Shows that Andi doesn't really know the whole ship - possibly just the engine room. Whereas Bandanna knows the whole ship, and all its secrets.

Sometimes, study and practice give the best knowledge. Sometimes, though, it can't hold a candle to living around it your whole life.

-snip-

I would think the more salient point would be the half-dozen ballista-turret-shaped holes in the sides of the airship and the splintered remains of ballista turrets on the ground below.

Still ... perhaps I'm wrong, but IIRC guns or ballistae are not the most important thing about a pirate ship. You're not trying to sink your targets, after all, but to capture them for looting.

You're right, but that might not be as true for sky pirates. It's a lot easier to recover loot from a crashed airship than a sunken seaship.

That was an amazing trick, but if she studied under Julio, she should know that Rule of Drama will make it absolutely necessary for them to have ballistas later on.

Bandana seems like the type of captain who would be less concerned with the Rule of Drama than the Rule of Gravity. One of those might endanger the Mechane in the future, the other is endangering it right now.

[drazen]

Now that the immediate fight is over, how soon does it click for that his sword is in one of an infinite number of snow banks?

I'm no D&D expert, but wouldn't that be solvable via:

Locate Object, Bugsby's Hand?

Or possibly even Mage Hand (along with Detect Magic (it is a magical sword, per Eugene) and Lighten Object), though it would be uncharacteristically planned of him. Or, if they can get close enough, Returning Weapon?

[danielxcutter]

Damn, four pages late? I'm getting slow...

Also, great comic!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

My read of this was different. It seems entirely in-line with Roy's ability to not see the concerns of NPCs as relevant to his story. "Thinks the whole campaign revolves around him." I don't think it was a character growth moment, but rather it was entirely in-character for him to ignore the subtext of Bandana's response (and shut up Elan). Yes, this means Roy is focused on his goal of stopping the destruction of the world, but it also means he is too focused and misses details.

That reading does not match the haste with which Roy shuts Elan up, nor the "glad it's handled [...] say no more". Those are not the acts of someone that doesn't care, but one that knows **** went down between a boss and her subordinates, and knows it is not his place to reopen whatever wounds have just been stitched closed.

GW

[The MunchKING]

Let me put it this way: you walk around with a 38, you're a guy with a gun.

You you walk around with a 38, two rifles, one shotgun, one sub-machine gun, two bandoliers with ammo and four knives, people ask questions.

Questions like "What can we do for you, sir?" And "Is there any way we can make your stay more pleasant?" :D

At least if they know what's bad for them.

[BriarHobbit]

I enjoyed this a lot. Zoom. Zoom. Time to reunite with the rest of the Order of the Stick. Get Roy's family sword and clear those mountains. Maybe fight a white dragon on the way. I suspect that some repairs and securing more "lift gas" are going to be necessary as well.

[Dr.Zero]

Unless Bandana didn't want to ditch the ballistas if she didn't have to.

Yes, possible.
Probably not because they can afford another battle, given the shape of the airship which was close to break down, but because the Twelve Gods know how much those thing cost for each one of them.
Probably way more than the 200gp the members of the crew have accepted as reward.

[Typhlosaurus]

Unlurk....

My expectation is that the Bandanna/Andi relationship is not going to end with "Look, this is how it's done", but rather that after Bandanna is killed/leaves to join the OOTS/something unexpected Andi demonstrates that she has learnt from Andi both "how it's done", and some humility, and hence is able to step up and become a more collegiate (probably temporary) captain in extremis.

A really good leader not only leads well, but enables other to do the same.

Thoughts?

[ManuelSacha]

Zoom zoom nudge nudge wink wink say no more say no more

Don't blink.

[Peelee]

I suspect that some repairs and securing more "lift gas" are going to be necessary as well.

You mean Helium?

[Centaur]

Called the dumping of two giants and one boulder. Woo!

Also, now that they are out of ballistārum, how are they going to backstab anybody who needs backstabbing?

Minor nitpick: It's " Aye Aye , Captain!" Not "Yes, Captain". Yes is what landlubbers say. "Aye aye" means "I understand and will comply".

So what is the formula for “I do *not* understand but will comply”? “Uh, yes, Captain” seems appropriate.

Of course, being Scoundrel's ship, maybe if you do something a la Vin Diesel, that gives you a bonus in fuel big enough to compensate.

Of course it does. It’s called diesel fuel.

[Ruck]

The Giant announced that he was taking steps to resolve the Smurfette syndrome of the OotS by having introduced a new female main character. I suspect that'd be Bandana. If so, she's probably here to stay.

Jasdoif, would you mind digging up the relevant quote?

Thanks in advance,

Grey Wolf

I don't think that's quite what he said. There's a quote from Rich that if he had to do it all over again, he'd include another woman in the main cast; the tweet Jasdoif found also says there will be a strong female lead for this arc (but he also explicitly says that character will not be as important as the core six). I'm assuming he's talking about Bandana. (A few people have suggested Lien, but she's barely present in this book; she might have an expanded role in the final book, but we haven't seen that happen yet.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I don't think that's quite what he said. There's a quote from Rich that if he had to do it all over again, he'd include another woman in the main cast; the tweet Jasdoif found also says there will be a strong female lead for this arc (but he also explicitly says that character will not be as important as the core six). I'm assuming he's talking about Bandana. (A few people have suggested Lien, but she's barely present in this book; she might have an expanded role in the final book, but we haven't seen that happen yet.)

It is literally six books too late to introduce a character that can become as important as the ones already members of OotS. No matter how important B becomes from now on, and no matter how much character development she is given, she cannot become as important as the established main characters. That is, unless suddenly she becomes the center of everything, but that's usually terrible writing and I don't think Rich is intending to try to pull it off.

So yes, the quote I had in mind is the one Jadoif presented, and it is still sufficient to back-up my explanation of why Bandana is getting so much attention.

That said, fair enough, I should probably not refer to B as a main character. I just also don't want to refer to her as a secondary character, because she's more than that. 1.5-y character , maybe?

GW

[hamishspence]

"Major" maybe.

Miko and Celia were "Major" characters but not main characters.