Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves

[DataNinja]

I haven't read it, but I distinctly remember Jain Zar getting a book either this year or last (fairly sure it has girly bits, even if it doesn't qualify due to being a dirty xeno).

In that vein, Path of the Seer (2011) has a female Farseer as the main character.

[Wraith]

Never. Happened?

Huh, weird. I remember seeing the art for those two; I thought they were sourcebooks for an adventure, or something.

I guess the thing about WHFRPG, is that the WHF was always finite. Every novel in WHF could've been tied to the RPG. Whereas the Dark Heresy RPGs specifically take place in a sector of space, with some unique elements that are uniquely part of the Calixis Sector - the biggest off the top of my head, is The Tyrant Star.

Anyone who knows the word "Bögenhafen" could probably dispute that, but I see your point. Still, to create a specific place/era in which tales of high adventure could be told? Probably not all that hard, to come up with a Calixis-equivalent. Like maybe some kind of ruined city that was befallen by some great calamity.... like a warpstone comet falling from the sky.... during a period of great political upheaval... such as the Time of the Three Emperors.... Nah. It'd never catch on....

I would read Dread Fleet. I love pirates. But, that would require a wet navy which is obviously very different to a space navy. Wet navies don't even have Gellar Fields.

Daemon Slayer says otherwise, in the form of Dwarven Runes performing essentially the same task. As does Slayer of the Storm God, though this time in the form of Dark Elf magic on a Black Ark and/or High Elf magic on a galleon. Hell, Elfslayer even has wacky skaven-made submarines.

....Come to think of it, that's probably why WHFRP didn't get a specific novel tie-in; Gotrek and Felix were already pretty much just fan-fiction of William King's WFRP gaming sessions.

[Blackhawk748]

Anyone who knows the word "Bögenhafen" could probably dispute that, but I see your point. Still, to create a specific place/era in which tales of high adventure could be told? Probably not all that hard, to come up with a Calixis-equivalent. Like maybe some kind of ruined city that was befallen by some great calamity.... like a warpstone comet falling from the sky.... during a period of great political upheaval... such as the Time of the Three Emperors.... Nah. It'd never catch on....

*cough*Mordheim*cough* Sorry, got some warpstone dust in my throat.

[Drasius]

Execution Force was a novel.

And if the audio drama is anything to go by, the Callidus probably got a fair amount of page-time since she's the protagonist there.

[LCP]

There was actually a WFRP2E tie-in book series - Blood on the Reik. It had a boy/girl protagonist duo, but the blurbs still focus on the boy.

Also they did focus on a localised part of the Old World for WFRP3E - Ubersreik, same corner of the Empire that got repurposed for the Vermintide vidya game.

[Drasius]

While I thank you for pointing out more protagonists (I really should have remember Faith & Fire, I have the audiobook version, along with Red & Black!), I feel that this did not necessarily have to be true.

Marines are big business, that is true, however over the last 10 years GW have pushed a number of products which would have been ideal to include novel tie-ins. Dark Heresy was published in 2008 and then given a second edition in 2014, and we had Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay in 2005 and 2009; either would have been an ideal opportunity to have a tied-in novel, if not novel series.

The same could also have been said about Silver Tower, Dread Fleet, Execution Force, maybe even Blood Bowl - which WAS supported by a swathe of ebook short-stories published through Black Library, though none of them were particularly inclusive.
All of those things were pretty big news when they came out and some of them did have supplementary materials to go with their sold-out boxed sets.... Even if just as flash-in-the-pan cash ins, I think that more could have been done and not had an adverse effect on the slew of Heresy and Space Marine Battles books.

At least we'll be getting a reprint of Survival Instinct when Necromunda is released. I have that one on my shelf somewhere; I don't remember it being a particularly great story, especially not compared to the Kal Jericho comics which came out at the same time, but as far as female protagonists go you don't get much more bad-ass femme fatal(e) than 'Mad' Donna Ulanti!

1 - Silver tower did get a novel too and then got Hammerhal (?) as a sequel/expansion
2 - While it doesn't have to be true, it is the way it is, and for good reason. They can make an assured eleventy squillion dollars selling books about marines the largest faction that the majority of the playerbase has that people have been buying relentlessly for the last couple of decades or they can concentrate on churning out books about minor factions that only interest a small percentage of their plastic crack addicts valued customers and take a massive risk that the people will stop wanting the bolterporn that they have been devouring and suddenly switch factions (because the novels are a gateway drug into new armies).

As a business, the former surety is generally a better plan, so that's what they're going to go with. It's the same reason that, by percentage of factional releases, there's far more acclaimed stories from the non-marine factions. Nobody (at GW) cares, 'cause they can shovel out marine books with minimal regard to quality and people will still buy them. The Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Soul Drinkers are all highly regarded non-Imperium marine series, the Path of the Dark Eldar trilogy are the (to my knowledge) only DE focused books and they're fantastic, I've heard nothing but good things about the Path of the Eldar series too and about half the guard books are quite well regarded too, while if you asked for a list of must-reads for marines, the percentage of books that make the list compared to the total volume of marine books released is pitiful.

For further reference on how marines are a licence to print money - go look at Forgeworlds list of releases after they started doing Heresy and began to use large denomination currency to fuel their fireplaces. Why would you ever try and move away from a cash cow like that (until you've milked it dry at least)?

[Saambell]

I think one of the reasons I like ADB is purely cause, while he does write about Marines, he also GETS and SHOWS the fact they are not human. One of my favourite lines from Master of Mankind is a girl telling a Custodes he "looks monsterous" when he pretends to be human. That pretending simply being Smiling. Numerous mentions of how marines would have been if they had stayed human. Marinies are not human, they merely work for humans. If more marine books carried that idea, it would be interesting.

[Cheesegear]

Marinies are not human, they merely work for humans. If more marine books carried that idea, it would be interesting.

Death of Antagonis says 'Hello'.

[Saambell]

Death of Antagonis says 'Hello'.

There's more like that? Nice. Need to get a good list together and go hunting. Also, can I vote we name Hive Fleet Tiamet's Pet Project the AstroNOMicron?

[Cheesegear]

ADB has once again pointed out that the 40K he reads, is by John French.

[Brookshw]

Tyranid codex, p48: "There is a strange affinity between Termagants and Tyranid Warriors that goes beyond the usual unifying influence of the hive mind".

T. Warriors: no special rules re: Termagants.
Termagants: no special rules re: T. Warriors.

Er....come again China?

[Cheesegear]

Tyranid codex, p48: "There is a strange affinity between Termagants and Tyranid Warriors that goes beyond the usual unifying influence of the hive mind".

Basically they keep copy-pasting the fluff from the time when Warriors could use Termagants as bullet shields.

[Cikomyr]

Basically they keep copy-pasting the fluff from the time when Warriors could use Termagants as bullet shields.

Which worked until the Termagants realized how much the Warriors were jerks who only think about themselves.

[Cikomyr]

Is it strange that I preferred the Wrath of Magnus's trailer with the TTS voice actors?!

[Wraith]

Is it strange that I preferred the Wrath of Magnus's trailer with the TTS voice actors?!

I don't understand. You're saying you preferred listening to someone who ISN'T Toby Longworth? That can't be right, it sounds like madness.

[Cheesegear]

I don't understand. You're saying you preferred listening to someone who ISN'T Toby Longworth?

I will also accept Gareth Armstrong.

[Cikomyr]

I don't understand. You're saying you preferred listening to someone who ISN'T Toby Longworth? That can't be right, it sounds like madness.

......who?

[LansXero]

I don't understand. You're saying you preferred listening to someone who ISN'T Toby Longworth? That can't be right, it sounds like madness.

While the original trailer is pretty good, I think TTS Magnus has a pretty amazing take on the character. Less daemonic warlord, more indignant bookworm frustrated at the limitations of those bound to the material world. Fan made and comedy and all, but the voicework ir pretty enjoyable.

[Wraith]

......who?

A voice actor, most well known among GW circles as the voice of Nathaniel Garro in the Knights-Errant audiobooks, as Horus Lupercal in Horus Rises and as Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn in his self-titled trilogy. He also did the VO for the Wrath of Magnus cinematic trailer, which is why I thought you were referring to him before I realised what TTS stood for.

He's generally regarded as being one of the best actors employed by GW and BL, due to more or less sounding like an actual Space Marine.

[Cikomyr]

While the original trailer is pretty good, I think TTS Magnus has a pretty amazing take on the character. Less daemonic warlord, more indignant bookworm frustrated at the limitations of those bound to the material world. Fan made and comedy and all, but the voicework ir pretty enjoyable.

I think you nailed it. As good as Whatshisname is as a voice actor, there is one characteristic i can qualify his Magnus...

Generic

His Magnus is just yet another Daemonic bad guy with a deep voice. We heard that dozens of times already...

TTS's actor played it deadly serious, but he kept his slightly high pitched/whiny nerd voice. You could pick that voice out in a crowd of villains easily.

Same for Ahriman's voice. TTS has him as an super articulated gluttural character.

Say what you want, TTS tried hard to have distinctive voice acting for its character, something that GW has rarely done. They prefer generic, standardize Heroic/Daemonic voice.

Little wonder that when a character steps outside the generic voice acting mold it usually becomes a fan favorite. (Lord General Castor. The crazy chaos marine in Soulstorm. Orks.)

[Wraith]

Maybe. I might also put it down to undersaturation on TTS's part - I can listen to them for the length of their videos, but the Eisenhorn trilogy clocks in at over 30 hours, and I think that I might grow very tired of "silly" voices by that point.

[Cikomyr]

Maybe. I might also put it down to undersaturation on TTS's part - I can listen to them for the length of their videos, but the Eisenhorn trilogy clocks in at over 30 hours, and I think that I might grow very tired of "silly" voices by that point.

I suppose. But then again, TTS trailer was not... Silly. Like I said, he played it 100% serious. His voice was just distinctive.

But that's a character voice acting. Someone reading a.novel? More traditional is probably better.

Except when reading Marine/Ork slashfic written by a Slaaneshi daemon prince. Then a Nurglite Daemon voice is waaaay better

[Blackhawk748]

Simple question: Is the Mechanicus using any other parts f the Legio Cybernetica besides the Kastellans? Such as the Castilax or Thanatars?

[Cheesegear]

Had an idea today, and if NaNoWriMo wasn't already almost over, I'd probably be writing Hogan's Heroes in 40K.

[Brookshw]

Had an idea today, and if NaNoWriMo wasn't already almost over, I'd probably be writing Hogan's Heroes in 40K.

Go on........

[Cikomyr]

Has there been novels describing the aftermath of the Horus Heresy in detail? Most importantly, the high-level politics of the Imperium. Especially, the circumstances of the Primarchs' "disappearance"?

Because i have a theory, but i want to know if it is ground already covered.

[Cheesegear]

Most importantly, the high-level politics of the Imperium.

The Beast Arises.
Unfortunately, the big one 'How is the Ecclesiarchy a thing, if there are also Space Marines?' isn't addressed.

Especially, the circumstances of the Primarchs' "disappearance"?

No, then. But, for the sake of your theory...

Spoiler: When the Primarchs disappeared

Show

<14.M31
Ferrus dies during the Drop Site Massacre.
Sanguinius dies fighting Horus.
Luthor brain-shoots Lion.

Unknown: Jaghatai Khan led The Scouring, then disappeared at some point, fighting Dark Eldar.

121.M31; Guilliman gets rekt by Fulgrim.
211.M31: Leman Russ gets his buddies and goes down to the store for beer and cigarettes. He doesn't come home. His friends do - eventually. But he doesn't.

Vulkan; Explicitly left after Russ. "If Russ can leave, I can too." He goes to search for treasure.
Corax; Left after Vulkan. Spoke with Dorn before he left. Dorn: "Please don't leave me." ... *Corax leaves*

Dorn; The last (loyalist) Primarch. One source has him disappear in 34.M31, which is impossible if he's 'the last Primarch', and we have hard dates on when Guilliman dies and when Russ leaves which is long after that (almost like GW would eventually learn to stop putting dates on things). That said, he does have to disappear before 781.M31, which is Abaddon's 1st Crusade, which he is certainly not around for.

Note; The 8th Ed. Codex: Space Marine's timeline has the Primarchs disappear after The War of the Beast - not before. Which is demonstrably incorrect (except for Vulkan, but he's special and put on a bus literally the very next book after he's introduced, he implies that Dorn is still alive and he knows where he is [in M32]).

Theory away.

[Cikomyr]

Nah.. doesnt work. Damnit, my theory depended on Guilliman still being active when the other Primarchs ****ed off.

Basically, i had in mind that Guilliman "encouraged" them to get away to prevent further challenges to the central Imperium authority. Maybe work a deal with Russ that "if you get out of here, i will tolerate your chapter not respecting my Codex"

Alas, shot down by facts.

Thanks for the timeline however!

[Theodoric]

121.M31; Guilliman gets rekt by Alpharius.

Not Fulgrim?

[Cheesegear]

Alas, shot down by facts.

So...You do, or don't, read wikis like you said you did?
Granted, not everything I said can be found on the wikis, but, the hard dates on Guilliman and Russ I certainly had to look up.

Not Fulgrim?

Shush you. Also, edited.