Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves

[Cheesegear]

When was the Officio Assassinorum founded? Did they have Vindicares etc in the Heresy era?

Nemesis would tell you everything. In everything that seems shady and bad about the Imperium, Malcador is in charge. Valdor is also in on it for some reason. In fact, during the Heresy, they have six Temples, not four. What happened to the other two?
Dorn, however, is not. It does not go well.

[DaedalusMkV]

Nemesis would tell you everything. In everything that seems shady and bad about the Imperium, Malcador is in charge. Valdor is also in on it for some reason. In fact, during the Heresy, they have six Temples, not four. What happened to the other two?
Dorn, however, is not. It does not go well.

Nothing happened to the other two. They just don't get as much spotlight because their specialties are poison and extreme social engineering, and neither is particularly well suited to being a cool model in a tabletop wargame. Both got entries in the 7th edition Codex: Assassins, though.

[Cheesegear]

Dorn: What's going on here, then?
Malcador: Me and my six friends organise to murder people for the good of the Imperium.
Dorn: I'm telling Dad on you.
Malcador: *facepalm* Dorn, we've been over this. The Emperor said I can pretty much do anything I want, as long as it doesn't involve Daemons. Look, even the Captain of the Custodes is involved. He knows what's up.
Valdor: *waves*
Dorn: Da-a-aaad. *That thing that kids do where they can turn 'Mum' or 'Dad' into a three syllable word...You know what I'm talking about.*

Big Daddy E: What's going on here, then?
Malcador: Me and my six friends organise to murder people for the good of the Imperium. Dorn doesn't like it 'cause it's not above board. If it was a bad idea, Valdor wouldn't be here.
Valdor: *waves*
Big Dad: Dorn, stop getting involved in things you don't understand. 'Sup Valdor. Wondered where you went off to.
Dorn: I understand it just fine. I just didn't think it would be something you're okay with.
Big Dad: I don't care. Pretty sure I already said Malcador can do whatever he wants. Except...Y'know...Malcador, and least try and keep me in the loop.
Malcador: You know I wont.
Big Dad: *shrugs and leaves*
Malcador: Hey Dorn, you know your Dad hates you, right? Maybe if you got your nose out of his arse and took action without his persmission first he actually might respect you for once.

Dorn: *Sulks because his Dad doesn't love him, and him trying to one-up Malcador keeps failing.*

[thethird]

A fanfic could be written with Malcador as a self insert fan (or time traveler) trying to fix things for the Imperium.

[bluntpencil]

Nemesis would tell you everything. In everything that seems shady and bad about the Imperium, Malcador is in charge. Valdor is also in on it for some reason. In fact, during the Heresy, they have six Temples, not four. What happened to the other two?

They still have six, don't they?

Venenum and Vanus apparently don't translate well into a tabletop battle game, though.

[Wraith]

Seven, if you're willing to include Death Cultists.

I still think that Venenum and Vanus assassins "not working on the table top" is only the result of laziness on behalf of the designers - I can think of a multitude of ways it'd work. Venenum would be a Close Combat character who has Poisoned attacks, with a Vindicare-like option to tailor her attacks to cause more wounds, or a Mortal Wound, or to cause a poisonous "Holocaust"-like effect around her.
The Vanus, meanwhile, would be a support character - like an Inquisitor with the old Liber Heresius or the Imperial Guard-style Command Orders. He joins a unit and then grants it a new special rule every turn from a short list that represents the information he has obtained about his target; Rend, Twin-Linked, Ignores Cover, so on and so forth. Let's say that he can't use the same rule twice in a row, for the sake of balance

[bluntpencil]

Seven, if you're willing to include Death Cultists.

That's not an Officio Assassinorum Temple... just Imperial Cult Temples, which have their own, not-as-good assassins.

[Wraith]

I know. Hence the "if".

[Cheesegear]

Venenum would be a Close Combat character who has Poisoned attacks, with a Vindicare-like option to tailor her attacks to cause more wounds, or a Mortal Wound, or to cause a poisonous "Holocaust"-like effect around her.

So basically you want a Callidus Assassin that's worse.

The Vanus, meanwhile, would be a support character - like an Inquisitor with the old Liber Heresius or the Imperial Guard-style Command Orders.

I wonder how Necron players would feel if you gave <Imperium> players a better version of Nemesor Zahndrekh?

[lord_khaine]

I wonder how Necron players would feel if you gave <Imperium> players a better version of Nemesor Zahndrekh?

As a Xenos player they would likely be used to it..

[Drasius]

I wonder how Necron players would feel if you gave <Imperium> players a better version of Nemesor Zahndrekh?

As a Xenos player they would likely be used to it..

Ahahahahahahahaha, that's the best burn I've heard in a while.

[LeSwordfish]

"Stealing Nemesor Zahndrekh's special ability" is at least entertainingly ironic.

[Blackhawk748]

I wonder how Necron players would feel if you gave <Imperium> players a better version of Nemesor Zahndrekh?

It was already a thing Cheese. Sisters had a cheap Relic that let you do it

[Cheesegear]

As a Xenos player they would likely be used to it..

Would they? For the last three (?) editions Xeno Codecies have been rather distinct - and better - than anything the Imperium puts out.
I think you meant <Chaos>.

[Blackhawk748]

Would they? For the last three (?) editions Xeno Codecies have been rather distinct - and better - than anything the Imperium puts out.
I think you meant <Chaos>.

*sits here waiting for Cheese to remember that Deldar and Orks where things*

[Cheesegear]

*sits here waiting for Cheese to remember that Deldar and Orks where things*

Did anything in the Imperium try to copy Open-Topped, Fast Transport spam? The closest thing I can think of would be Scouts in Land Speeder Storms, which is not the same thing as Boats, Boats, Boats. Any Imperial player trying to ape a Dark Eldar list, would have been in for a bad time.

Orks, I'll give you. No Ork build - not even the competitive ones - really ever stood out to me as distinctly Orky, and the one that did - Trukk spam - was just a poor imitation of the Dark Eldar Wych list from 5th Ed. Spamming Meks with SAGs, just felt like Inquisitors/Techmarines spamming Conversion Beamers. The one list that really was Orky, was The Green Tide (the actual Formation, not the army concept), which actually felt like you were about to be mobbed by 100 Orks.
Now, in 8th Ed., you might hear something like '100? Oh. Is that all?'

So, yeah. Poor Orks. But I'd be far from throwing Dark Eldar into the same boat (pun unintended).

[Forum Explorer]

Did anything in the Imperium try to copy Open-Topped, Fast Transport spam? The closest thing I can think of would be Scouts in Land Speeder Storms, which is not the same thing as Boats, Boats, Boats. Any Imperial player trying to ape a Dark Eldar list, would have been in for a bad time.

Orks, I'll give you. No Ork build - not even the competitive ones - really ever stood out to me as distinctly Orky, and the one that did - Trukk spam - was just a poor imitation of the Dark Eldar Wych list from 5th Ed. Spamming Meks with SAGs, just felt like Inquisitors/Techmarines spamming Conversion Beamers. The one list that really was Orky, was The Green Tide (the actual Formation, not the army concept), which actually felt like you were about to be mobbed by 100 Orks.
Now, in 8th Ed., you might hear something like '100? Oh. Is that all?'

So, yeah. Poor Orks. But I'd be far from throwing Dark Eldar into the same boat (pun unintended).

Really? It's not fast, but my closest would be Imperial Guard Armored Companies. Special Weapons can shoot out the hatch, and Lasgun Sponsons mean you don't lose that many shots. Frig, in 7th edition you only wanted to move 6 inches with the boats anyways, so it's not like you lost all that much speed with the Guard version regardless.

[Wraith]

So, yeah. Poor Orks. But I'd be far from throwing Dark Eldar into the same boat (pun unintended).

I almost went to draw a comparison between the Dark Eldar's Power From Pain mechanic with that of the Sisters of Battle's Power From Faith....

....But then I came to my senses and realised that I was about to portray ANYTHING from the SoB book that isn't an Exorcist or St. Celestine as even remotely "good". Good thing really, that would have been embarrassing!

=====

On an unrelated topic, I have discovered that Black Library have finally released Dan Abnett's "Ravenor" as an audiobook, and it's voiced by Toby Longworth. One of my favourite books series by one of my favourite VA's - I could hardly be happier.

Now just give me the Shia Calpurnia books as voiced by Lisa Coleman, and I can finally stop pushing threatening letters under the front door to Warhammer World.

[Cheesegear]

Now just give me the Shia Calpurnia books as voiced by Lisa Coleman...

I would buy that.

[Drasius]

....But then I came to my senses and realised that I was about to portray ANYTHING from the SoB book that isn't an Exorcist or St. Celestine as even remotely "good". Good thing really, that would have been embarrassing!

You should be embarassed that you forgot Dominions.

[Wraith]

No, I didn't.

[Voidhawk]

Did anything in the Imperium try to copy Open-Topped, Fast Transport spam? The closest thing I can think of would be Scouts in Land Speeder Storms, which is not the same thing as Boats, Boats, Boats. Any Imperial player trying to ape a Dark Eldar list, would have been in for a bad time.

I'll take "What are Sisters of Battle Repressors?" for $500, Cheese. Seriously, that's going to be the answer to a whole lot of stupid questions for a while.

I almost went to draw a comparison between the Dark Eldar's Power From Pain mechanic with that of the Sisters of Battle's Power From Faith....

....But then I came to my senses and realised that I was about to portray ANYTHING from the SoB book that isn't an Exorcist or St. Celestine as even remotely "good". Good thing really, that would have been embarrassing!

This edition, they're doing pretty well. Even discounting broken Forgeworld stuff they have at least one cheap effective unit in every slot, which is more than many armies can say. This discussion should really be in the Tactics thread though.

[LeSwordfish]

I'm bored. Apparently the "Dark Imperium" novel has a lot of whole-setting exposition. Anyone for a Lets Read?

[The Glyphstone]

Dooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeet.

[Wraith]

Hell yeah, I'd want to see that. Genuinely too; I haven't heard any of the Dark Imperium stuff yet.

[Cikomyr]

A friend told me he was trying to field a Punished Leman Russ with 3 Heavy Flamers.

I suggested the name "Sororites Variant"

[Brookshw]

I'm bored. Apparently the "Dark Imperium" novel has a lot of whole-setting exposition. Anyone for a Lets Read?

I like the way your thinking!

[Cheesegear]

So, GW's Facebook is currently seeing an influx of 'Political Correctness gone mad!' posts, because GW have gone 2-for-2, with Blightwar having Neave Blacktalon (who's a ****en badass) and Shadespire having Angharad Brightshield (who I'll reserve judgement on until I can read something akin to a book, but since she's not even the Leader of the Warband, I don't expect that). Leading to two reactions;

1. What's next!? Female Space Marines!?
2. Does this mean female Space Marines are coming?

GW, for their part, has said 'No, it doesn't'. What GW is working on, is introducing new female Characters (they brought up Greyfax) or improving existing ones (Celestine). Which I applaud, as that's the way it should be done, as Marvel disastrously found out in the last ~18 months;
- People want diversity (additions).
- People don't want you fixing what isn't broken (substitutions).

So here's hoping that whatever female Characters GW has cooking up for 40K, works out... I'd also like Greyfax to not suck, but that's a Tabletop thread kind of line.

[Wraith]

Aaron Dembski-Bowden had something to say on the matter quite recently too, in his usually direct and uncompromising manner. [NSFW due to language]

It's his personal Twitter account so they can't actually stop him, but given the nature of his response it's good to know that GW haven't publicly scolded him for it - I, for one, would probably have had to answer for it had my own account been so obviously and directly linked to my own employer - and by their silence, I would hope that we can infer agreement.

[Cheesegear]

Aaron Dembski-Bowden had something to say on the matter quite recently too, in his usually direct and uncompromising manner.

...I think that might be a separate issue, involving him, personally. ADB's work has a lot of female and non-white Characters in his books.

Some people Idiots are under the impression that Stormcasts and Space Marines are identical. I think the issue is that people idiots think female Stormcasts will inevitably lead to female Space Marines. Even if you're in the other camp that wants female Space Marines, I still wouldn't call it a realistic outcome - and GW has said as much. We're not getting female Space Marines - for better or worse - just because there happen to be female Stormcasts twice in a row. GW aren't going to go 'full Marvel'.

Whatever ADB is responding to, isn't the same thing. Though I doubt it's coincidental that he's just bringing it up now - as he said he's had that 'in the bank' for quite some time.

I, for one, would probably have had to answer for it had my own account been so obviously and directly linked to my own employer - and by their silence, I would hope that we can infer agreement.

Part of me wants to tell you that ADB's language is exactly the kind of thing I, personally respond to positively. Dropping a 'GFY' as a sign off is exactly what I like about ADB, and I imagine I'm not alone. So it's entirely possibly that it's...Okay...Because it's what his fans respond to.