Fallout VIII: Another Thread Needs Your Help General

[Triaxx]

The Thermic Lance and Chainsaw are also good, but the weight is an issue so the ripper is strictly better. The Lance at least feels like it's got a slightly longer reach.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Fun fact: with the mod Underground Hideout, you get a 'hideout movement tool'. This tool can be used right outside of the Think Tank in the Big MT, permitting you access to your underground hideout for the entirety of the OWB DLC. This may be combined with the Transportalponder to provide you a means of always being able to get to your Underground Hideout without needing the teleporter from that mod activated.

[Triaxx]

Sadly useless the one time you'd want to have access without it though.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sadly useless the one time you'd want to have access without it though.

Well yes, but you can build a teleporter there with the things on hand by the time you get to the workbench in the basement of the clinic, and bypass the nonsense anyway.

[Triaxx]

Ah, fair enough. Isn't there one on the surface in a closet in the main area though?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ah, fair enough. Isn't there one on the surface in a closet in the main area though?

There is, but you need a Fusion Battery to make the thing, which can be found in the clinic's basement, but is otherwise difficult to obtain.

[Triaxx]

Forgot about the battery. I think I lucked into one in a secret stash last time I tried.

[The_Jackal]

Can someone please explain why I keep wasting my time in Fallout 4 survival mode? I know it's supposed to be 'challenging', but the way I find it plays out is anything but. Rather, it's just a test of abusing stealth, bad AI pathing, and regular game saves, along with lots of extra inventory management headaches and jogging.

[Balmas]

Can someone please explain why I keep wasting my time in Fallout 4 survival mode? I know it's supposed to be 'challenging', but the way I find it plays out is anything but. Rather, it's just a test of abusing stealth, bad AI pathing, and regular game saves, along with lots of extra inventory management headaches and jogging.

Search me, man. It's a poorly implemented, poorly designed mode that uses survival elements to add difficulty instead of immersion.

[Triaxx]

I don't know. I found it a refreshing, enjoyable reason to actually play Fallout 4. Otherwise it's generic open world shooter/RPG Number 4. Terrible shooting, terrible RPG elements. The story might as well make train noises as it railroads you around.

Survival at least gives me something to do as I wander between shooter zones. Stealth isn't even really necessary after the first few levels. The bed thing is annoying, but the alternate solution is settlements. They're scattered around enough you can take them over and leave beds for yourself just about anywhere.

Jogging? Nah. Overdriven Servo sprinting for the win. Plus Salvage Beacons, which let you leave the loot in a crate and have it taken back to a settlement for you.

[The_Jackal]

I don't know. I found it a refreshing, enjoyable reason to actually play Fallout 4. Otherwise it's generic open world shooter/RPG Number 4. Terrible shooting, terrible RPG elements. The story might as well make train noises as it railroads you around.

Let's be clear, the story isn't a railroad, it's an on-ramp. It's there enough to get you pointed in the direction of fun. Of course, the melodrama premise was a very poor choice, as it's fairly immersion breaking to do anything but sprint through the main story on a revenge rampage until you find Shaun (only then to have the plot twist make your haste pointless, and your son a giant douche), but I'm more than willing to forgive the weakness of the story for Bethesda's strengths.

Survival at least gives me something to do as I wander between shooter zones. Stealth isn't even really necessary after the first few levels. The bed thing is annoying, but the alternate solution is settlements. They're scattered around enough you can take them over and leave beds for yourself just about anywhere.

Jogging? Nah. Overdriven Servo sprinting for the win. Plus Salvage Beacons, which let you leave the loot in a crate and have it taken back to a settlement for you.

I've never really taken to power armor in Fallout 4, I'm sorry to say. It always feels bulky and unweildy, and I enjoy the sneaking around style, treating each encounter like a type of stealth puzzle. The problem is that so many bullet-sponge enemies make a true stealth assassin a very questionable premise. And as for salvage beacons, no mods, please. Lugging home scrap is the least of my troubles. After all, just one vertibird signal grenade can get me back to a settlement regardless of how much junk I'm lugging around. Also, it does kind of drain the urgency out of your inventory constraints if you don't have to carry anything home with you.

The last run I tried I was starting over, working on the first Deathclaw, but the thing will simply one-shot you without cheesing AI pathing, and when you do, he just runs around a corner and hides.

[Triaxx]

Let's be clear, the story isn't a railroad, it's an on-ramp. It's there enough to get you pointed in the direction of fun. Of course, the melodrama premise was a very poor choice, as it's fairly immersion breaking to do anything but sprint through the main story on a revenge rampage until you find Shaun (only then to have the plot twist make your haste pointless, and your son a giant douche), but I'm more than willing to forgive the weakness of the story for Bethesda's strengths.

Choo-choo. Most of us were never going to play it for the story, no matter how much they hyped it. But this one was particularly bad.

I've never really taken to power armor in Fallout 4, I'm sorry to say. It always feels bulky and unweildy, and I enjoy the sneaking around style, treating each encounter like a type of stealth puzzle. The problem is that so many bullet-sponge enemies make a true stealth assassin a very questionable premise. And as for salvage beacons, no mods, please. Lugging home scrap is the least of my troubles. After all, just one vertibird signal grenade can get me back to a settlement regardless of how much junk I'm lugging around. Also, it does kind of drain the urgency out of your inventory constraints if you don't have to carry anything home with you.

The last run I tried I was starting over, working on the first Deathclaw, but the thing will simply one-shot you without cheesing AI pathing, and when you do, he just runs around a corner and hides.

No mods, stealth sniper... So vanilla optimal build. No wonder you're not having any fun. You're basically playing spreadsheet simulator. I can tell what you're going to end up running with every time. Suppressed Instigating Gauss Rifle, Combat Armor, probably a Vault Suit underneath. Over. And Over. And Over again. Optimum combination of light armor, and Ultra High Damage weapon.

Sorry, I'm not intentionally trying to be down on how you want to play the game, but Fallout 4 is so rough and raw it's impersonal. It's like a knife blank that's been stamped out and while the edges are sharp enough to cut or chop or stab, it's lacking any personality or individual touches to be made into something beyond basic function. It meets the definition of knife in that it's a piece of metal with sharp bits, but you can't point and say Dagger, or Bowie, or Stiletto (which I understand is just another dagger type).

And yes, I understand the argument, that the game should be absolutely perfect and playable out of the box without any mods at all. But it's like taking a steak, dropping it straight into the pan, cooking it to done, and dropping it on the plate without ever adding seasoning. Yes, it's done, and yes, it has taste. Unfortunately that taste has been watered down by the act of cooking, and there's no spice there to make it taste like anything but cooked beef. It's not the steak you wanted because you didn't make it the steak you wanted. It's just... there.

As for why you keep playing? Perhaps you're just unwilling to admit you wasted money. Or perhaps you're unwilling to play anything but the 'hardest' difficulty, and are suffering the consequences of not altering it until it's fun. I really don't know.

[smuchmuch]

(only then to have the plot twist make your haste pointless, and your son a giant douche)

I did kind of like that plot twist, actualy.

It's a shame the institute as a whole faction feels so damn shalow an poorly written (really would it have been /that/ hard to give them even one redeeming feature along the line ?of them havingacualy done something positive fo the comonwealth with all that tech the are hoarding ? ..Well I suppose still they compare favorably to the Enclave (and mind you that include Fo2 enclave, overly simplistic villains did not wait for Bestheda to be in the writting rails, sadly.) but 'slightly less worse than ' genocidial for no good reason' is not exactly a high bar to set.)

And yes, I understand the argument, that the game should be absolutely perfect and playable out of the box without any mods at all. But it's like taking a steak, dropping it straight into the pan, cooking it to done, and dropping it on the plate without ever adding seasoning. Yes, it's done, and yes, it has taste. Unfortunately that taste has been watered down by the act of cooking, and there's no spice there to make it taste like anything but cooked beef. It's not the steak you wanted because you didn't make it the steak you wanted. It's just... there.

Er..yes ? The taste of coked steak is what one expect a cooked steak ? (You can adds easoning sparingly ut ti shoudn' be mandatory nor shoud it overide the flavor.) If anything the ct f cooking if skillfully done should only enhance th taste.
...Although, i get the steak is the game and seasonin is modding but I'm uh not sure entirely sure what cooking stand for here. Sorry but that metaphor really need work here, because it's kinda confusing.

That said. y'know what ? All too often do I buy a steak to find out than it's 'baby beef', fed with lots of antibiotics to get bigger quicker without a chance to grow or devellop adult muscles (which is what makes the taste of meat btw),. And the resut while originaly looking like a great big piece of beef, is bland, spit tons of water into the pan, has no taste and need tons of seasoning just to feel like I have someting in my mouth. It shouldn't and I feel rightfully mad at my butcher when he seels me that tasteless crap at the price of good beef.

Just as the videogame I buy shouldn't need mods to feel like a complete game and if I get sold an incomplete rushed buggy mess, I have good reason to get pissed at the develloper.

(I can' tell if that put us in agreement or at odds.)

(That said, I was just overextending the metaphor for the sake of, it here, as I feel FO4 does stand pretty strongly as a game on it's own even wihout mods. Not a game I enjoy all that much, a poor RPG in some ways, but it's a good sandbox and a decent shooter a least.)

[The_Jackal]

No mods, stealth sniper... So vanilla optimal build. No wonder you're not having any fun. You're basically playing spreadsheet simulator. I can tell what you're going to end up running with every time. Suppressed Instigating Gauss Rifle, Combat Armor, probably a Vault Suit underneath. Over. And Over. And Over again. Optimum combination of light armor, and Ultra High Damage weapon.

In point of fact, I was doing a sneaky gunslinger build, but that aggravated the bullet-sponginess of the tougher enemies. I had the deliverer, and a similarly vats-enhanced plasma pistol, but without the reach, armor penetration, and power you get from long guns.

Sorry, I'm not intentionally trying to be down on how you want to play the game, but Fallout 4 is so rough and raw it's impersonal. It's like a knife blank that's been stamped out and while the edges are sharp enough to cut or chop or stab, it's lacking any personality or individual touches to be made into something beyond basic function. It meets the definition of knife in that it's a piece of metal with sharp bits, but you can't point and say Dagger, or Bowie, or Stiletto (which I understand is just another dagger type).

Well, many of these constraints are those imposed by survival mode. After all, if you play a normal difficulty mode, nothing is stopping you from wielding a broadsider exclusively. I think much of the problem is the decision to use a weapon crafting system without putting any great effort into actually making those modifications really feel important. For all the touted variety, there's usually only one 'correct' choice for any frame of weapon, and only the meager pipe guns show real moddability or uniqueness.

And yes, I understand the argument, that the game should be absolutely perfect and playable out of the box without any mods at all. But it's like taking a steak, dropping it straight into the pan, cooking it to done, and dropping it on the plate without ever adding seasoning. Yes, it's done, and yes, it has taste. Unfortunately that taste has been watered down by the act of cooking, and there's no spice there to make it taste like anything but cooked beef. It's not the steak you wanted because you didn't make it the steak you wanted. It's just... there.

I'm mainly avoiding modding out of a desire for stability, rather than any loyalty to the base game.

As for why you keep playing? Perhaps you're just unwilling to admit you wasted money. Or perhaps you're unwilling to play anything but the 'hardest' difficulty, and are suffering the consequences of not altering it until it's fun. I really don't know.

I think I'm just expressing frustration at a failing that many games fall foul of: Difficulty doesn't actually change the experience in any meaningful way, it only changes the power ratio between the player and the foes.

[Triaxx]

@smuchmuch: I saw that coming as soon as we saw 'pre-teen Shaun' and heard about the director. But it was a bit of a surprise at least. I expected a baby powered giant battle robot myself.

Cuts of meat might have been a better metaphor, but it's hard to peg the audience. Cooking would be character creation, where it doesn't matter the rest of the game if you're always creating Sniper Sally, or Stealth Steve, the game's not going to change much.

@The Jackal: Deliverer's junk. Okay if you're trying to be sneaky, but enemies are pretty tough for that to work. Personally give me a two-shot .44 instead. Or even the Pipe Revolver. .44 starts stronger than the Deliverer ever gets.

I'll give you the customization issue. Ultimately the choice is semi vs auto, and that's a pretty poor choice. As for survival, it never felt that problematic, but I put a LOT of time into Fallout New Vegas's Hardmode, and that makes Survival seem like a distant cousin.

Fair enough though even with a heavily modded load order, barring those that are the result of Creation Club breaking mods, in the 519 hours I've played Fallout 4, it's crashed a whopping twice on me. It's the most stupidly stable Bethesda game I've ever played.

That's perhaps the worst failing of Survival Mode. It didn't do what it said it was going to, by ramping up the damage given and taken, instead just making the enemies even stronger.

[Mando Knight]

In point of fact, I was doing a sneaky gunslinger build, but that aggravated the bullet-sponginess of the tougher enemies. I had the deliverer, and a similarly vats-enhanced plasma pistol, but without the reach, armor penetration, and power you get from long guns.

Use sniper barrels on your energy weapons when going for stealth. Laser sniper-pistols have the longest range of any weapon in the game once you factor in the Gunslinger perk, and Old Faithful is one of two guaranteed Instigating weapons in the game (the other is the Sentinel's Plasmacaster, which you only get by destroying the Institute with the Brotherhood of Steel).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Let's be clear, the story isn't a railroad, it's an on-ramp. It's there enough to get you pointed in the direction of fun. Of course, the melodrama premise was a very poor choice, as it's fairly immersion breaking to do anything but sprint through the main story on a revenge rampage until you find Shaun (only then to have the plot twist make your haste pointless, and your son a giant douche), but I'm more than willing to forgive the weakness of the story for Bethesda's strengths.

Unfortunately, it's an on ramp to a bridge to nowhere. You go up the ramp... and there's just a vast empty nothingness.

And I'll have to disagree about the story not being a railroad. It prevents you from doing many things until you have gotten to a certain point in the main quest. This is the definition of railroading.

I'm trying really hard to not make a 'Fallout CoD' meme here, but it really does feel like FO4 made a Genre Jump from open-world RPG with some shooting elements to a FPS with the trappings of RPG. Look at Fallout: New Vegas. You had some grimdark plotlines, but you also had engaging characters. People to support, to avenge, or to put down like the rabid dogs they are. I mean... take Cook-Cook for example. Now, all the Fiends are on people's hit lists, much like Raiders are in any Fallout title, because they are irredeemably evil, but Cook-Cook goes the extra mile, and if you follow the plotline that leads you to him (as opposed to just finding him in the world randomly and looting his head since it is flagged as a quest item), by the time you find him you are itching to put the bastard down. He makes you *want* to kill him. Not just because he is random_bad_guy_482 but because of what he has done.

Tell me, outside of the Shadow questline or our artiste friend Pickman, are there ANY quests in FO4 that aren't generic 'go here, kill stuffs'? I mean, going out and killing stuffs is one thing, but I was expecting more from a Fallout title than that. If you encounter a bad guy, you will need to kill him. Not because they need killing or not, but simply because the dialogue tree locks you into killing them. Because there are no alternative options, no matter what skillset your character has. That's... not fun. That gets boring and repetitive after the first couple of hours.

Also... precisely what 'strengths' are we talking about with Bethesda? Because with this game, I'm honestly not seeing it.

[Balmas]

Instead of joining this old argument, may I present a new chapter in an old game?

Spoiler: Hail to the King, Baby

Show

[Triaxx]

Cabot and Far Harbor are the only two that really spring to mind and fit the criteria. Cabot only has one choice at the end and it's purely a game play choice who you side with. Far Harbor on the other hand has not only multiple choices, but with knock-on effects across multiple factions.

That said, Far Harbor was made to a New Vegas standard where they were free to attack the story and setting without worrying about the engine since it was all done already.

[Triaxx]

So, recorded the last of this chapter of Fallout New Vegas today. I am... in post play downer. Not really sad persay, just the drop from the adrenaline high that is playing the game, and now I won't play for a while. Which is fine. The mod install needs to be stripped out and reinstalled. And hopefully JIP's Companion Command and Control will update. Playing without it is... unpleasant.

So for a Fallout Game to play until I really get back to New Vegas... Fallout 2, possibly with the cut content mod, if I can recall the name. Or Fallout 4, picking up and going stomping into Nuka-World, with the intention of tearing the raiders apart from the inside out.

Fallout 4's... well it's Fallout 4. It's capacity to allow you to roleplay almost exactly fits my ability to roleplay. Which is to say they're both non-existent. It's a very fun game as long as you don't think too hard about it.

Fallout 2... I've done five chapters on Fallout New Vegas. Fallout 2 could potentially be even longer if I don't exploit my way through the game. I've never found exploiting the game to be all that interesting, but at the same time, it's slow paced if I don't.

I won't be playing Fallout 1. I'm terrible at the game and time has not improved on my abilities. I still intend to play Tactics, but I need to resharpen my skills on F2 first. Turn-based is it's own thing and I need to be sure of what I'm doing. TTW... I don't want to try and reinstall it. I'd be tempted to wander into DLC instead of finishing Broken Steel and that would just not get us anywhere. I'll go back at some point, but not now.

[Balmas]

Personally, I'd much rather watch you do Fallout 2 than Fallout 4. It's just hard to get engaged with Fallout 4 LPs unless they're roleplaying an evil git.

What you're looking for is Killap's Fallout 2 Restoration Project.

Fallout 2 can be super long, but it's a lot shorter if you're willing to be ruthless with cutting things out of the video. My F2 playthrough was only 32 episodes, though that'd probably be closer to 70 with your shorter, full-play episode recording style.

[Triaxx]

That's the one. Thank you.

I actually think I can do both. I'll just stick F4 into the Pillar's slot because I'm going to have to have a break from isometric RPG's for a bit and I don't own Pillar's 2 yet. As for roleplaying evil, well, I'm not good at evil.

I think I might be able to land about fifty, if I cut out the grinding in the triangle.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Currently doing a 'loud and proud' playthrough of F:NV. My personal rules:

* No stealth armor types, including not using the third level of Stealth in Signature Armor mod
* No silenced or scoped weapons, and definitely no silenced AND scoped weapons.
* Not permitted to put points into the Stealth skill or read any Chinese Spec Ops Manuals, until ALL other skills have been capped

Currently running around with the Survivalist's Rifle and a grenade rifle. REALLY tempted to try out FIDO, though.

I'm actually really tempted, this time, to use the Elite Riot Gear instead of the Vault Trenchcoat from AWOP, because it isn't Light armor that still grants +5 Crit mod. Be a nice change of pace.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Something just dropped into my inbox today I thought to share with the class...



Yes, it's Fallout: New Vegas done in the FO4 engine. Looks like they've made a hell of a lot of progress with the open world so far. Can't wait to see the ultimate result.

[Triaxx]

Indeed. I have to admit, I always preferred the Ranger Patrol Armor for a medium armor until I get the Elite Riot Gear, but that's because I always go to Vegas before doing any DLC. And there's an easy set from the Ranger body recovery. But I'm always friendly with the NCR so it doesn't matter.

That looks amazing. I cannot wait for it to arrive. Then again, I'm still waiting for Frontier as well.

[veti]

Yes, it's Fallout: New Vegas done in the FO4 engine. Looks like they've made a hell of a lot of progress with the open world so far. Can't wait to see the ultimate result.

That... might actually qualify as a reason to reinstall Fallout 4. We'll see when it's beta-ready.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Indeed. I have to admit, I always preferred the Ranger Patrol Armor for a medium armor until I get the Elite Riot Gear, but that's because I always go to Vegas before doing any DLC. And there's an easy set from the Ranger body recovery. But I'm always friendly with the NCR so it doesn't matter.

That looks amazing. I cannot wait for it to arrive. Then again, I'm still waiting for Frontier as well.

Do you know how DR/DT work together? For example, is it DT reduces then DR divides, or is it DR divides then DT reduces (to minimum)? Because the Riot Gear doesn't have any DR, but has higher DT.

So say an attack does 100 damage. With 20 DT and 10 DR, is it:

* 100 - (10% = 10) = 90 - 20 = 70 damage

or

* 100 - 20 = 80 - (10% = 8) = 72 damage

[Triaxx]

I want to say it's the latter, with DT being applied first, but I don't have a controllable example to test with.

You might be able to find out with a bit of console magic and the mod for Borderlands style damage numbers. (IE they show up visually when you shoot a target.)

[Balmas]

Do you know how DR/DT work together? For example, is it DT reduces then DR divides, or is it DR divides then DT reduces (to minimum)? Because the Riot Gear doesn't have any DR, but has higher DT.

So say an attack does 100 damage. With 20 DT and 10 DR, is it:

* 100 - (10% = 10) = 90 - 20 = 70 damage

or

* 100 - 20 = 80 - (10% = 8) = 72 damage

The Fallout wiki says that in New Vegas Damage Resistance is applied first, and then reduced by Damage Threshold, down to a minimum of 20% of the initial damage.

So to use the example above but change some numbers: Let's say you have 60 DT through wearing power armor, subdermal armor implants, the Toughness Perk, the works. You then take Med-X, for a 25% Damage Reduction.

A Nightkin fires a 100-damage missile at you.

Immediately, the Med-X lowers the damage by 25%, so that missile is now 75 damage. Your heavy armor then kicks in, and would reduce that 75-damage missile to 15 damage. However, since DT cannot reduce an attack's damage below 20% of the initial damage, that 20% would overwrite the damage, and you'd take 20 damage.

[DigoDragon]

So... we can think of it as DR before DT as that's alphabetical. Just as a way to remember which goes first.