Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

[Traab]

On a different note, Just A Robot on youtube has finished his 4 part series trying to compare every version of superman versus every version of goku to see who would win. The basic gist being, he takes the weakest version of both and sees who wins, lets say superman wins, that same superman keeps getting compared to steadily increasing gokus till superman loses, then he brings in steadily increasing tiers of superman till THAT goku loses, back and forth. This is the full playlist if anyone is curious. As I have no concept of the background knowledge needed to judge it, I will not comment on its accuracy. Just know that if the info is at all accurate, death battle seriously low balled both of them going by what sort of peak feats they were both capable of.

[Rynjin]

Yea, I missed the part where it was taking about the most recent battle, didn’t even realize it was out because my job sort of precludes surfing the Net for more then an hour at most a day, and mostly just thought the griping about DC was an extension of the last few dozen pages of people griping about Superman again. An easy enough thing to do since the video just came out a couple days ago. And no, complaining about spoilers is not some goofy strange plot to censor all reality.

Sure, but you could also like pick your battles, maybe?

Death Battle is not some grand plot with twists and turns that can be "ruined" for you. The guys who make it do a ten minute Wiki Walk on two largely randomly selected characters and throw together a half-assed animation to go with it. All of the info used is something you could dig up in that same ten minute span. The only interesting thing about the videos is the results and community discussions afterward. I don't even watch the show I just like chatting in this thread.

[Maryring]

Well, this happened.

Spoiler

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I guess I should give DC credit for making someone so powerful he can kill omnipotent beings.
And I'm already convinced people will be furious about them dismissing the creator comment.
But since I just take these as fun little entertainment... I was entertained, enough. Maybe it was a bit short but still fine, imo.
I feel like we'll never see another DC hero lose, just because.. DC is DC.

Next time... I know the one person is from RBWY. That's literally all I know.
That might be the fight I will ever care the least about. But it could still be fun to watch!

This was the first spot talking about the result of the death battle. It's obviously about the recently released death battle, and at this point the discussion following is obviously going to be about that subject. If you're honestly worried about spoilers, this is the point where it becomes your responsibility to either watch the show, or avoid the conversation. Complaining that someone spoiled the thing thirty posts later is just asinine.

[Reddish Mage]

On a different note, Just A Robot on youtube has finished his 4 part series trying to compare every version of superman versus every version of goku to see who would win. The basic gist being, he takes the weakest version of both and sees who wins, lets say superman wins, that same superman keeps getting compared to steadily increasing gokus till superman loses, then he brings in steadily increasing tiers of superman till THAT goku loses, back and forth. This is the full playlist if anyone is curious. As I have no concept of the background knowledge needed to judge it, I will not comment on its accuracy. Just know that if the info is at all accurate, death battle seriously low balled both of them going by what sort of peak feats they were both capable of.

Like everything ever written on the subject, you could pick apart a lot of what is said here. However, its nice you got something that goes through a lot of details in both Superman and Dragonball versions.

Spoiler: All versions Superman vs. Goku by Just a Robot

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Specifically, their approach is to take only the powers that are showed or referred to for that specific version of the character, but they ignore a lot of stuff we went into for Superman and deny some other things. Specifically, Cell is taken at his word (and supported by supplements) to be a solar-system buster but the version of Superman from "Superman vs The Elite" is said to tank a blow as strong as 15 supernovas, which they say is B.S.

Of course they are ignoring the feats Deathbattle uses to essentially say Superman's power is limitless

Specifically, I question how slow some versions of Superman are simply because we don't see him use speed. I don't know where Goku suddenly gets a speed boost upon becoming Super Saiyan God (I don't quite understand what he said there). Finally, Super Saiyan God is interpreted to be universe+ because of danger the Dragonball macrocosm is said to be in when Goku fights Beerus, but those shockwaves come from the clashing energies of both Goku and Beerus and huge clashing energy multiplier is a thing.

There are some mistakes a lot of comment point out in part 3 but I think its in part 4 is when they are being really sloppy as they go through all the versions of Dragonball Super Goku and Superman at this point pretty rapidly rather than establish their powers and tricks.

Finally, its established that Post-Crisis Superman knocked out Superboy Prime which seems relevant.

[Traab]

Like everything ever written on the subject, you could pick apart a lot of what is said here. However, its nice you got something that goes through a lot of details in both Superman and Dragonball versions.

Spoiler: All versions Superman vs. Goku by Just a Robot

Show

Specifically, their approach is to take only the powers that are showed or referred to for that specific version of the character, but they ignore a lot of stuff we went into for Superman and deny some other things. Specifically, Cell is taken at his word (and supported by supplements) to be a solar-system buster but the version of Superman from "Superman vs The Elite" is said to tank a blow as strong as 15 supernovas, which they say is B.S.

Of course they are ignoring the feats Deathbattle uses to essentially say Superman's power is limitless

Specifically, I question how slow some versions of Superman are simply because we don't see him use speed. I don't know where Goku suddenly gets a speed boost upon becoming Super Saiyan God (I don't quite understand what he said there). Finally, Super Saiyan God is interpreted to be universe+ because of danger the Dragonball macrocosm is said to be in when Goku fights Beerus, but those shockwaves come from the clashing energies of both Goku and Beerus and huge clashing energy multiplier is a thing.

There are some mistakes a lot of comment point out in part 3 but I think its in part 4 is when they are being really sloppy as they go through all the versions of Dragonball Super Goku and Superman at this point pretty rapidly rather than establish their powers and tricks.

Finally, its established that Post-Crisis Superman knocked out Superboy Prime which seems relevant.

With the comment on part 4

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I think part of the problem is, by part 4 we are reaching the &^%*&^ tiers of power. Where everyone is infinite +1 in strength and going from there. Throwing around terms like 12th dimensional and stuff like that which makes literally no sense at all but using it as a base for determining power. Most of the early stuff you could actually break down and see a demonstration of because we SEE the character cross the universe in 12 seconds.. But by part 4 we have people capable of destroying multiverses of varying sizes through word of god and no visual component (not that there really could be at this level)

As for stuff like the 15 supernovas being rejected, I think thats because of the disparity between what is said and what is seen. We clearly see him tank a blast that leaves a massive lunar crater, we can also clearly see that this isnt even a 15th of a supernovas worth of devastation. I think for scenarios like that you need to make judgement calls because you can justify it either way. "Oh, he absorbed most of that force, thats why the solar system didnt ignite" or "Look at the fact that the moon still exists, clearly that wasnt 15 supernovas" Either would be a semi logical conclusion really. So its personal opinion rather than established reality for that character. I think what the goku versus superman debate finally concludes on is, these guys are raw bull excrement, their feats are beyond stupidly nonsensical, at peak they both can erase all of reality if they so desire, so no matter who wins, reality loses.

[Reddish Mage]

With the comment on part 4

Spoiler

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I think part of the problem is, by part 4 we are reaching the &^%*&^ tiers of power. Where everyone is infinite +1 in strength and going from there. Throwing around terms like 12th dimensional and stuff like that which makes literally no sense at all but using it as a base for determining power. Most of the early stuff you could actually break down and see a demonstration of because we SEE the character cross the universe in 12 seconds.. But by part 4 we have people capable of destroying multiverses of varying sizes through word of god and no visual component (not that there really could be at this level)

Spoiler

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Agreed that we are getting to a new level of absurdity when we are asking how many universes of what sizes shapes and dimensions the character can destroy or absorb the damage from attacks. However, I think the whole thing is absurd a lot earlier. We are told that ki-blasts during and before the cell games could destroy the planet, but the craters left when Goku tanks one of these earth-busters from Cell is not even a fraction of the stuff Superman tanked against the Elite.

The punches are quite meaningful in post cases, because both Goku and Superman have been killed by punches. Aftershocks and collateral damage doesn't at all match what is said about the power output of either character. If real physics were in play, the punches alone should shatter the sound barrier, if not the light barrier, and cause a great deal of weirdness. Meanwhile, the force Ki blasts should do far more than just send Goku into the ground...the law is every action has an equal and opposite reaction There's also the potential to derive superman's durability from stuff in All-Star Superman and

I think what the goku versus superman debate finally concludes on is, these guys are raw bull excrement, their feats are beyond stupidly nonsensical, at peak they both can erase all of reality if they so desire, so no matter who wins, reality loses. [/SPOILER]

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Once we get into reality wiping (which both alternative versions can clearly survive) we get into a new level of absurdity, however, I think canon Superman can survive the elimination of reality, for whatever that's worth.

However, things are pretty absurd the minute we talk death battle. The key is if there is a nice sounding, albeit absurd, argument for why one absurdly powerful character takes out the other.

[Anteros]

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Agreed that we are getting to a new level of absurdity when we are asking how many universes of what sizes shapes and dimensions the character can destroy or absorb the damage from attacks. However, I think the whole thing is absurd a lot earlier. We are told that ki-blasts during and before the cell games could destroy the planet, but the craters left when Goku tanks one of these earth-busters from Cell is not even a fraction of the stuff Superman tanked against the Elite.

The punches are quite meaningful in post cases, because both Goku and Superman have been killed by punches. Aftershocks and collateral damage doesn't at all match what is said about the power output of either character. If real physics were in play, the punches alone should shatter the sound barrier, if not the light barrier, and cause a great deal of weirdness. Meanwhile, the force Ki blasts should do far more than just send Goku into the ground...the law is every action has an equal and opposite reaction There's also the potential to derive superman's durability from stuff in All-Star Superman and

But in the case of ki blasts not destroying the Earth, we're told repeatedly and explicitly multiple times that the characters are controlling their ki to not do so. The few times where someone really lets loose and don't do so are followed by scenes of all of the other characters freaking out and screaming "we're all going to die!" DBZ punches don't destroy the Earth because their control is so great that they're delivering that ki into their opponent's body and not dispersing the energy into the world around them. That's why when Goku fights Beerus he almost destroys the entire universe when he throws 2 punches without fully controlling his power.

Spoiler

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Once we get into reality wiping (which both alternative versions can clearly survive) we get into a new level of absurdity, however, I think canon Superman can survive the elimination of reality, for whatever that's worth.

However, things are pretty absurd the minute we talk death battle. The key is if there is a nice sounding, albeit absurd, argument for why one absurdly powerful character takes out the other.

Modern Superman absolutely cannot survive the destruction of the universe. I'm sure Silver Age Superman has some nonsense where he does so though.

[Rater202]

As far as I know, Superman's greatest feat of durability was resisting brief contact from an electromagnetic shockwave of a supernova.

The narration explicitly stated that he'd have died instantly if the nova itself had hit him.

(And honestly, I don't think non-kryptonite radiation has ever been an issue for Clark.)

[Lemmy]

Spoiler

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Agreed that we are getting to a new level of absurdity when we are asking how many universes of what sizes shapes and dimensions the character can destroy or absorb the damage from attacks. However, I think the whole thing is absurd a lot earlier. We are told that ki-blasts during and before the cell games could destroy the planet, but the craters left when Goku tanks one of these earth-busters from Cell is not even a fraction of the stuff Superman tanked against the Elite.

The punches are quite meaningful in post cases, because both Goku and Superman have been killed by punches. Aftershocks and collateral damage doesn't at all match what is said about the power output of either character. If real physics were in play, the punches alone should shatter the sound barrier, if not the light barrier, and cause a great deal of weirdness. Meanwhile, the force Ki blasts should do far more than just send Goku into the ground...the law is every action has an equal and opposite reaction There's also the potential to derive superman's durability from stuff in All-Star Superman and

Well, writers generally just ignore the collateral damage that just moving at those speeds would cause. Superman's movement doesn't even cause sonic boons or city-destroying shockwaves... Much less cause all the physics-breaking chaos that moving at anything close to light speed would do... Because if we take that in consideration, then the world is destroyed every time Superman does Superman things... And no one wants his comics to end just because some writer decided to remember that something with as much mass as a grown man moving FTL should at very least instantly burn Earth's atmosphere...

This falls into "acceptable break from reality" category.

[Reddish Mage]

Well, writers generally just ignore the collateral damage that just moving at those speeds would cause. Superman's movement doesn't even cause sonic boons or city-destroying shockwaves... Much less cause all the physics-breaking chaos that moving at anything close to light speed would do... Because if we take that in consideration, then the world is destroyed every time Superman does Superman things... And no one wants his comics to end just because some writer decided to remember that something with as much mass as a grown man moving FTL should at very least instantly burn Earth's atmosphere...

This falls into "acceptable break from reality" category.

My point is that, once we make such wide departures from physics, once you state that The character’s output of energies and forces from their fists are so much greater than humanly possible...or even theoretically possible from anything roughly human shape swinging something resembling an arm (yes ok the body and whatever else is available could be the true source of the power) we are far into the world of absurdity. How these guys damage their opponents...What kills these characters, what hurts them or doesn’t on another occasion, it all doesn’t make any sense from a real world/real physics perspective. At this point your telling stories of characters for which the laws of physics are mere suggestions.

For example, we see DB super Goku get downed by a laser and scratched by a bullet. Yet bullets harmlessly bounced off young Goku in original DB.Now you’ll say something about Ki, but does DB say how Ki works or if the characters are ordinary without Ki control (I thought it said Satan was the human limits without Ki and he’s impressive by real person standards).

It’s not that you might not come to something strongly resembling clear ideas as to who is stronger if you look at what a character can and can’t do and those actions end up being semi-consistent, it’s that, before saying what is and is not absurd criteria to judge strength, remember every criteria of analysis picked is arbitrary, every character is inconsistent, and their abilities are vaguely defined,

[deuterio12]

For example, we see DB super Goku get downed by a laser

A laser from an hyper-advanced galactic empire that mass-produces FTL ships so small that there's not enough space to stand up and never need to refuel, so they can clearly mass-produce tiny batteries that output insane amounts of power.

[Kato]

A laser from an hyper-advanced galactic empire that mass-produces FTL ships so small that there's not enough space to stand up and never need to refuel, so they can clearly mass-produce tiny batteries that output insane amounts of power.

Can't... Resist... Arguing...
Okay, ignoring the fact that is pretty much all based on the assumption that creating an infinitely efficient space ship translates to similar effective batteries or lasers, Goku got hurt by a bullet at the beginning of Super (or battle of Gods? Both? I'm not sure) Of course you can argue that he wasn't prepared for it so his defense wasn't up even though kid Goku in the first episode shrugged it off while also being totally surprised. Or maybe there's some other reason behind it.
But the laser doesn't have to be super powerful to hurt Goku.

My point isn't that Goku is weak, it's that DB is effing inconsistent about powers (and other things) That doesn't mean I don't like it, far from it, but people constantly coming up with explanations and reasoning to justify contradictions and then presenting them as facts is very grating to me.
(of course this inconsistency is something that applies to 99% of fiction and DC is as guilty or worse. Which is why I still don't know how people can get riled up over Death Battle as if it's anything but stupid entertainment)

[deuterio12]

Can't... Resist... Arguing...
Okay, ignoring the fact that is pretty much all based on the assumption that creating an infinitely efficient space ship translates to similar effective batteries or lasers,

Just sayan, if they can develop infinitely efficient space ships, then the ceiling of their personal lasers would be just as crazy.

Goku got hurt by a bullet at the beginning of Super (or battle of Gods? Both? I'm not sure) Of course you can argue that he wasn't prepared for it so his defense wasn't up even though kid Goku in the first episode shrugged it off while also being totally surprised. Or maybe there's some other reason behind it.
But the laser doesn't have to be super powerful to hurt Goku.

My point isn't that Goku is weak, it's that DB is effing inconsistent about powers (and other things) That doesn't mean I don't like it, far from it, but people constantly coming up with explanations and reasoning to justify contradictions and then presenting them as facts is very grating to me.

Actualy consider it:

-Decades ago kid Goku ago went into a rampage and showed how puny earthling weapons were. The mighty Red Ribbon army was completely annihilated. Other military organizations would notice the destruction, recover recordings, and go "we need stronger weapons ASAP."

-Dr. Gero himself gets super serious and researches like crazy, developing multiple 100% earth tech androids that could wipe the floor with even early DBZ Goku.

-Meanwhile there's been plenty of hyper-advanced alien tech being dropped on Earth for human engineers to reverse-engineer. We see what Bulma could do, who says she's the only one who's been doing it?

So that earthling gun that hurt Goku? That's a gun after decades of Earth's engineers rushing in a super arms race once they realized that the galaxy is filled with super powerful aliens against which their previous arsenals may as well be toys. Years after Dr.Gero deployed multiple weapons that could actually harm sayans, aka enough time for other people to develop cheaper versions that were made available to the public (or at least criminals)..

Thus Goku is still super tough, but Earth's technology has been catching up so that handheld guns available to common thugs can now actually scratch him!

[Traab]

As far as I know, Superman's greatest feat of durability was resisting brief contact from an electromagnetic shockwave of a supernova.

The narration explicitly stated that he'd have died instantly if the nova itself had hit him.

(And honestly, I don't think non-kryptonite radiation has ever been an issue for Clark.)

The thing is, no, thats not his greatest feat. It might be the greatest in regards to a specific incarnation of superman, but we see him withstand absurdly exponentially higher amounts of damage than that in other incarnations. Which was basically the point. There are many versions of superman and goku that have existed over the years. Each has very different caps on their abilities and what they can handle. Even if each cap was basically "This is just how strong we got around to displaying them getting before the new series started and everything is reset. not as powerful as they would have become if this continued." So maybe one superman barely handles an emp shockwave from an exploding star, then we get this other superman who tanks the explosion of an entire reality to his left eye and doesnt even bruise.

[Lemmy]

My point is that, once we make such wide departures from physics, once you state that The character’s output of energies and forces from their fists are so much greater than humanly possible...or even theoretically possible from anything roughly human shape swinging something resembling an arm (yes ok the body and whatever else is available could be the true source of the power) we are far into the world of absurdity. How these guys damage their opponents...What kills these characters, what hurts them or doesn’t on another occasion, it all doesn’t make any sense from a real world/real physics perspective. At this point your telling stories of characters for which the laws of physics are mere suggestions.

For example, we see DB super Goku get downed by a laser and scratched by a bullet. Yet bullets harmlessly bounced off young Goku in original DB.Now you’ll say something about Ki, but does DB say how Ki works or if the characters are ordinary without Ki control (I thought it said Satan was the human limits without Ki and he’s impressive by real person standards).

It’s not that you might not come to something strongly resembling clear ideas as to who is stronger if you look at what a character can and can’t do and those actions end up being semi-consistent, it’s that, before saying what is and is not absurd criteria to judge strength, remember every criteria of analysis picked is arbitrary, every character is inconsistent, and their abilities are vaguely defined,

Yew. It's all super inconsistent... Was this ever disputed? I don't think anyone here thinks otherwise.

[Reddish Mage]

A laser from an hyper-advanced galactic empire that mass-produces FTL ships so small that there's not enough space to stand up and never need to refuel, so they can clearly mass-produce tiny batteries that output insane amounts of power.

It’s called a standard laser, they give a power term for it, and it’s not supposed to be something impressive...not like a Ki-blast.

Yew. It's all super inconsistent... Was this ever disputed? I don't think anyone here thinks otherwise.

Yes. In saying that 12 dimensional busting feats vs 5 dimensional universe busting feats are where things get ridiculous this implies it wasn’t already absurd. Specifically, many here talk about the powers of these characters as if they are precisely set, usually from some example (the EMP of a Supernova) that isn’t actually the peak feat.

Each has very different caps on their abilities and what they can handle. Even if each cap was basically "This is just how strong we got around to displaying them getting before the new series started and everything is reset. not as powerful as they would have become if this continued." So maybe one superman barely handles an emp shockwave from an exploding star, then we get this other superman who tanks the explosion of an entire reality to his left eye and doesnt even bruise.

Except there is an implication that some of these versions of the character are the same. Just because a particular Superman didn’t show speed feats doesn’t mean he doesn’t have them (especially if it’s supposed to have identical or greater powers of another version). We would accept that Gogeta has all the powers of Goku and Vegeta...and then some, even if we don’t see them.

Add to that, some (really all) feats and potential abilities mentioned are vague or inconsistent with what we actually see. Almost looks like two kindergarteners are fighting on the playground shouting their strength and power and arguing about whether a killjillion is more or less than a gogleplex.

[Rater202]

As for the bullet hurting Goku, that was explicitly becuase Goku was slipping.

That was after a brief time skip. Too much mundane life and a lack of worthy foes meant his skills were starting to degrade.

[Lemmy]

It's also because DB world apparently follows the rules of drama... Arale was specifically able to beat Vegeta because she uses gag-physics.

[Prime32]

As for the bullet hurting Goku, that was explicitly becuase Goku was slipping.

Notably, that arc shows both Goku and Krillin getting hit by bullets while they have their guards down (Goku even says something like "I can't believe I slipped up like that, I'm sorry I ever made fun of Krillin"). Krillin is grazed by a bullet and it draws blood, with the implication that he could have died if the shooter's aim wasn't off. With Goku the bullet just bounces off and stings a little (which is roughly what happened when he got shot as a kid). Even without their ki defences, Goku gets extra durability from being an alien.

[Reddish Mage]

Here’s the thing a bullet is pretty slow and very, very small as the sort of strikes we are talking about go.

The idea is that Goku is trading blows at multiple times the speed of sound or light. A bullet big feat is piercing the sound barrier. That’s Goku entire arm or body breaking these barriers. Supposedly, sometimes a blow from Goku’s opponent will hit while his guard is down and do major damage, but if Goku’s body is scratch-able by a mere bullet, a full on attack from Hit or Freeza should explode the body into tiny tiny bits.

Similar stuff happens with Superman, although its well established a bullet won’t scratch him, lightning, mere strong-guy punches, and boring stuff like...I don’t know a missile explosion is depicted as at least fazing him for a bot. Superman skills seem to scale up or down depending on whether he is engaged in a city level fight, a continent level across the world fight or even a cosmic outside the Earth fight (those are the crazy ones where Superman will get hit by cosmic forces and deliver that same level of force right back). A similar thing happens to Goku.

So while I think, at the end of the day, a there’s a canon version of Superman that ought to beat a canon version of Goku, based on seeing these feats, I admit they are highly and absurdly inconsistent in those depictions.

My argument is that Goku just has too many weaknesses like very limited stamina, vulnerability to mundane stuff, and importantly, in the DB Super canon needs air to breath and so can’t fight a space battle.

The counter argument comes down to Goku must be so much more destructive than anything Superman faced, but that sells short a lot of thing Superman has actually faced.

That’s ultimately, the problem with Just a Robot’s analysis. The Robot acts as if these versions of Superman are meant to be distinguishable and have clearly defined power levels like “universe + buster” or whatever, and they don’t. The same goes with the Goku’s...who are even more vaguely defined as these versions are just stages of a single manga/anime series.

Some versions of Goku only appear in a single video-game or a few episodes of anime. Some version of Superman only appear in a single comic or a few of them.

[Rynjin]

It’s called a standard laser, they give a power term for it, and it’s not supposed to be something impressive...not like a Ki-blast.

Recall that these "standard lasers" were outputting about as much energy during the Namek Saga as Saiyan Saga Vegeta was able to throw out with a normal ki blast. The only difference between Vegeta and the standard Frieza Soldiers in that first DBZ arc was he didn't need a device to shoot and could amp his power for bigger attacks (eg the Galick Gun).

It's not unreasonable to assume that their tech has advanced in the 20 some odd in-universe years between the Namek Saga and Resurrection F.

Aside, I've always found it interesting that by the time DB Super came around, the Dragonball timeline matches up with our own in terms of how many years have passed since the start of OG Dragonball.

[Delicious Taffy]

Is it too early to start tossing out names for the next thread? Cuz I've got a couple.

-Death Battle 5: Goku Goku Goku, Superman Superman Superman
-Death Battle V: Did they ever care in the first place?
-Death Battle V: I don't even know who you are.

[Reddish Mage]

Recall that these "standard lasers" were outputting about as much energy during the Namek Saga as Saiyan Saga Vegeta was able to throw out with a normal ki blast. The only difference between Vegeta and the standard Frieza Soldiers in that first DBZ arc was he didn't need a device to shoot and could amp his power for bigger attacks (eg the Galick Gun).

It's not unreasonable to assume that their tech has advanced in the 20 some odd in-universe years between the Namek Saga and Resurrection F.

Aside, I've always found it interesting that by the time DB Super came around, the Dragonball timeline matches up with our own in terms of how many years have passed since the start of OG Dragonball.

I don’t recall these Vegeta-power lasers. I do recall the ring laser was considered pretty much nothing and it doesn’t cause craters or blow through the planet or anything. I don’t quite get the argument, the laser is clearly not some sort of planet buster+ laser or show the effects of a big attack (and Freeza is dismissive of the attack being a lousy one). Regardless of how much better it is from a bullet, its nothing compared to the attacks the fighters are throwing around.

Having fictional timelines match the publication history is nothing unusual. They’ve even did it in a few references in the MCU that messes up the official timeline. How many TV series follow high school students season by season? Its tough to make these things stick, but after a long break often times having the characters advance the same as the audience is an obvious place to go with live-action TV.

Here, of course, its more of a coincidence since Super takes place soon after the Majin Buu saga.

[Man on Fire]

I've realized there is a number of characters I would want to see in Death Battle that I don't even know whom to put against. maybe anyone here can have some good suggestions of partners for any of those characters:

Albert Wesker from Resident Evil
Both Ciri and Geralt from Witcher
Nox from Wakfu

In these cases, it is just hard for me to find someone who could be a good thematic opponent not just vaguely similar but have a good contrast some of better DBs have.

Liu Kang from Mortal Kombat -in particular for his post-MK11 developments which make it more interesting but would also make it rather unfair to put him against typical candidates like Marshall Law from Tekken or Street Fighter's Fei Long

Megatron from Transformers - Mostly due to not wanting to just make it a repeat of Optimus vs Gundam, so obvious choice of Char Aznable or other Gundam antagonists won't work and...there isn't really anyone else I can think of.

Spoiler: Anyway, here is Weiss Preview

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[Dragonus45]

Megatron from Transformers - Mostly due to not wanting to just make it a repeat of Optimus vs Gundam, so obvious choice of Char Aznable or other Gundam antagonists won't work and...there isn't really anyone else I can think of.

I you go with later UC suits then things even out to the point I think that you could get a good fight between a Gundam and a Transformer, with the various psychic super shenanigans that newtypes can get up to and the absurdity that is bit weaponry.

[Kitten Champion]

I've realized there is a number of characters I would want to see in Death Battle that I don't even know whom to put against. maybe anyone here can have some good suggestions of partners for any of those characters:

Albert Wesker from Resident Evil

Bio-Boosted Armor Guyver, you could pick one of the Chronos higher-ups. I don't know which would work best in terms of power-disparity since I don't know about recent Resident Evil - I understand it gets pretty silly in the later games - but thematically you can find similar ground several characters of varying strengths.

The more obvious option from DB's lens - given Guyver's pretty niche even if people have heard of it - would be Alex Mercer or James Heller, but I'm pretty sure that'd be a stomp for the Prototype characters.

Megatron from Transformers - Mostly due to not wanting to just make it a repeat of Optimus vs Gundam, so obvious choice of Char Aznable or other Gundam antagonists won't work and...there isn't really anyone else I can think of.

A Valkyrie fighter from Macross might work conceptually on the basis of having similar gimmicks - to the point that Starscream and Jetfire are pretty much Valkyries - but given their estimations on Optimus' strength I'd assume anything from Macross would inevitably lose. Still, it's probably the best suggestion I have that isn't going too far into obscurity. A VF can be stuffed with ludicrous amounts of armaments and is extremely fast, much more than most Gundam-inspired mecha.

[Dragonus45]

A Valkyrie fighter from Macross might work conceptually on the basis of having similar gimmicks - to the point that Starscream and Jetfire are pretty much Valkyries - but given their estimations on Optimus' strength I'd assume anything from Macross would inevitably lose. Still, it's probably the best suggestion I have that isn't going too far into obscurity. A VF can be stuffed with ludicrous amounts of armaments and is extremely fast, much more than most Gundam-inspired mecha.

A Knightmare Frame from Code Geass could also work out fairly well.

Actually I think I really want a Valkyrie vs Knightmare fight more then I want a either to fight a Transformer, but thanks to the BS that was the second season its unlikely a Valkyrie could stand up to a named person from Code Geass.

[Kitten Champion]

A Knightmare Frame from Code Geass could also work out fairly well.

Actually I think I really want a Valkyrie vs Knightmare fight more then I want a either to fight a Transformer, but thanks to the BS that was the second season its unlikely a Valkyrie could stand up to a named person from Code Geass.

Valyries are significantly more powerful than Knightmare frames. They're faster and more durable than Star Wars' X-Wings and much better armed - particularly when they're equipped with Reaction Weapons - and the later versions have energy shields and sophisticated drone weaponry

Knightmare Frames in general are 2/3rd the height of a Zaku II and roughly the height of a modern 18-wheeler, have considerably less armour than a Zaku II, and for the most part wield much weaker weapons. They only really have ground-based manoeuvrability and reasonably powerful particle weapons and shields on the ace-units, but nothing really on the level of Macross.

[Dragonus45]

Valyries are significantly more powerful than Knightmare frames. They're faster and more durable than Star Wars' X-Wings and much better armed - particularly when they're equipped with Reaction Weapons - and the later versions have energy shields and sophisticated drone weaponry

Knightmare Frames in general are 2/3rd the height of a Zaku II and roughly the height of a modern 18-wheeler, have considerably less armour than a Zaku II, and for the most part wield much weaker weapons. They only really have ground-based manoeuvrability and reasonably powerful particle weapons and shields on the ace-units, but nothing really on the level of Macross.

Are you forgetting the crazy bs in the second season when literally everything could fly around turning on a dime and firing off giant mega lasers that would make a super robot blush? Because if you were I wouldn't blame you, sometimes I wish I could forget it as well.

[HolyDraconus]

So with the like dislike ratio approaching closer to 1:1, and one of the voice actors stating that they was surprised themselves over this outcome, I think we may be approaching a first for DB: an admittance of incompetence? Something like that.