Would You Be My New Best Friends? (Doctor Who redux)

[factotum]

Though starting with New Who they toned the dark way down

Have to disagree strongly there--the Chris Ecclestone series had a body count that would shame Midsomer Murders. It was far darker than most of the later series of original Who.

[Rodin]

I was irked by the drunk guy getting killed. It just seemed like a pointless death to show "yeah, this alien is really douchey", which we already knew because he'd killed in cold blood already. It's also such a stereotype of an idiot picking on a monster that can kill him in an instant. The more recent series tended to keep the deaths to those who are somehow involved.

Overall though I thought it was great. Jodie has immediately sold me on her being the Doctor, which Capaldi sometimes failed at. It was a better introductory episode than Capaldi's as well, and the tone of the setting feels like it's moved away from the previous era which started with Clara and continued through Bill's run.

Definitely promising, they've got me back on board after several years of lapsed watching.

[thorgrim29]

So are we in a new timeline where the several highly publicized alien invasions happened and everybody pretty much rolled with it? Because while I would have loved and laughed at ''alien invasions only happen in London'', ''Aliens aren't a thing'' seems weird. Other than that good episode, seems that after 2 lives very concerned with duty and responsibility and protection The Doctor is going back to wandering around where the time-winds take her and opportunistically hero-ing. Makes sense then that subconsciously they would want a clean break from previous iterations and go from an old scottish man to a young-ish Yorkshire woman (also the whole screwed up relationship with The Master/Missy). So far so good for the Doctor character, I buy Whittaker in the role. Although she is significantly shorter and smaller than Capaldi so the magician getup (and shoes) somewhat fitting is messing with my head a bit.

The plot of the episode was serviceable, I thought it was going to be an AVP ripoff but it turned out to be a Predator ripoff. Although hunting a specific human as a ritual contest makes no sense at all. Grace was a cool character but well-adjusted happy people don't make good companions and if she was still around they would have had to get rid of the old guy (still struggling with names...) as soon as they make it back to Earth so she had to go. Old Guy and Young guy seem like interesting characters who will have very different reactions to outer-space craziness, Yaz I have no opinion on, it seems like her arc might be about accepting things she can't change or it might go the exact other way and be about her joining UNIT or something because she can't accomplish enough as a rookie cop. I don't really know who she is yet.

[Calemyr]

I noticed upon re-watching the episode that I could hear Capaldi saying the exact same lines for most of the episode. Maybe it's just me. Especially her most hypocritical line in the episode about not trusting places that are all initials - this from the same person trying to find her T.A.R.D.I.S..

Spoiler: More specific thoughts on the episode.

Show

First, the companions:
Graham is a very genuine guy - he gets frustrated, embarrassed, and handles his wife's death in a way that you can relate too. I wonder if his frustration and tendency to get focused on particular details (such as a bomb in his collarbone) will lead him to have a somewhat antagonistic role among the team. Otherwise, he seems like he'll take the same role as Wilf and Brian as older characters with great hearts.

Ryan is very interesting due to the fact that his disability makes him feel like an idiot despite the fact that he shows himself to be quite intelligent. He's the only one to figure out (immediately) that the Doctor was using his phone to track the bombs' signal back to the source, but he was unable to follow her babble when it came to tracking, nicely setting his intelligence as high but not unrealistic. I absolutely adore the fact that his youtube post was actually about Grace, as I originally thought (as they intended) he was talking about the Doctor.

Yaz is a good bit of common sense and ambition. She puts me in the mind of Dewey from the 2017 Ducktales reboot, in that I suspect her ambition and need to prove herself will lead to problems (unlike Ryan, who will cause problems through curiosity and ignorance). I think she'll be good, but she could easily get annoying if her need to define herself leads to a poisonous rivalry (likely with Ryan, especially if he proves to be the "smart" companion of the team).

Together the three make a diverse cast that doesn't feel like forced diversity, and their pre-existing relationships makes them feel nicely real. I'm not worried about the number of companions, as it's largely the same composition of the original team from the Hartnel era. I think the best part about this is that it may take some steam out of the Doctor - the Doctor usually takes the spotlight too much and becomes a veritable god. That gets old after a while. Sharing the spotlight can really balance her out so that she can be a hero without being a god.

The Doctor is too early to tell. By her own admission, she's still mid-regeneration and doesn't know what she's going to be. As I said up top, she seems like she's impersonating Capaldi's Doctor for a lot of the episode, but Whitaker's performance was solidly rapid-fire and enjoyable. Granted, that may be mostly because of the Capaldi impersonation, as the 12th Doctor was wonderful even if his episodes were very rarely well written.

The body count for the episode is interesting, ranging from people who earn their deaths (salad man) to genuine innocents (the elderly security guard). The death of Grace annoyed me because it seemed so tacked on, but it does demonstrate how dangerous it is to travel with the Doctor - especially when you disobey her orders. At least it looks like this has a major impact on both Ryan and Graham.

The monster is pretty good for an introduction episode - really creepy and seemingly unstoppable without demanding the camera too much. We needed to set up four new characters and didn't have time for a deep opponent, so this jackass cheat from a warrior race who embeds the teeth of his victims into his face works really well... everything you need, without needing more. Hopefully once we know the team better, we'll get deeper characters, but Tim Shaw really fits the bill for this episode. He does feel unstoppable, but fails due to his arrogance and a fairly logical cause of defeat and it doesn't feel too cheap.

[Psyren]

Concerning the body count in an inaugural outing - I'm not seeing the shock here. Deep Breath had a way higher body count than this, and a lot more body horror too.

So are we in a new timeline where the several highly publicized alien invasions happened and everybody pretty much rolled with it? Because while I would have loved and laughed at ''alien invasions only happen in London'', ''Aliens aren't a thing'' seems weird.

Actually, they said "Aliens aren't a thing in Sheffield" specifically, and I'm not familiar enough with the post-universe reboot timeline to know if that's true or not but it seems close enough to be a funny line.

[LeSwordfish]

Culturally, it feels like a very deliberate decision to set the new show in the north of England rather than London - in the same way as such a racially diverse cast is a deliberate decision, or in the same way as Eccleston's series made the very deliberate decision to fill itself with working-class characters. I hope they keep the "earth" episodes in that kind of area.

[Calemyr]

I hope they keep the "earth" episodes in that kind of area.

Honestly, if they're cribbing Hartnel's notes, I hope they don't. I'm hoping for more non-contemporary Earth episodes exploring other cultures. That's one of the aspects that's been missing in the revived show. We've had a few, but most of them have been in the UK, the US, or France.

Of course, I dread the probability that they'll be blatantly political about it. (Who can be quite subversive when they're subtle and clever, but I find it grating when they go brazen.)

[thorgrim29]

Actually, they said "Aliens aren't a thing in Sheffield" specifically, and I'm not familiar enough with the post-universe reboot timeline to know if that's true or not but it seems close enough to be a funny line.

I remember both ''No such thing as aliens'' and ''Nothing ever happens in Sheffield''. Then again I did watch it on an airport bench at 3am (I had a fun sunday/monday...) so you might be right

[Calemyr]

I remember both ''No such thing as aliens'' and ''Nothing ever happens in Sheffield''. Then again I did watch it on an airport bench at 3am (I had a fun sunday/monday...) so you might be right

Graham does scoff and say "there's no such thing as aliens" and Karl agrees, stating "there are no aliens in Sheffield". The dispatch officer said something along the lines of Sheffield's nightlife being weird. "It's night in Sheffield, everything is weird."

It is strange that they're not sticking with the broken masquerade that started in the first season, that evolved to the point that people evacuated London on Christmas because something bad always happens in London on Christmas, with the notable exceptions of Wilf and the Queen. I found that funny, especially the montage explaining how Donna never heard about alien activity on contemporary Earth. That said, they haven't played on that masquerade for several seasons (though it never contradicted it like this episode), so it's not hard to forget that it used to be a thing.

[Psyren]

Well again, the entire universe was rebooted during Amy and Rory's run so anything before that is suspect. In any event, a bunch of randos on a train in Sheffield are hardly Word of God. It was a joke, I wouldn't read into it too heavily. (Granted, I am talking to the Who fanbase, but I'll try anyway.)

[Darth Ultron]

So are we in a new timeline where the several highly publicized alien invasions happened and everybody pretty much rolled with it? Because while I would have loved and laughed at ''alien invasions only happen in London'', ''Aliens aren't a thing'' seems weird.

Yea, remember the ''Cracks in Time" season of the 11th Doctor. Well, the cracks...um..erased everyone's memories of aliens. Except the cracks only really targeted the ''normal folks eating fish and chips" so all the world government people, scientists, UNIT and anyone a writer 'forgets' to have be effected still knows all about aliens.

Or something like that.

[Rodin]

Honestly, I had forgotten that everybody knew about aliens at one point. Aliens flashily invade and then get forgotten about so often in Doctor Who I just kind of assume the Masquerade is in place unless told otherwise at the beginning of the episode.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, that was alright. Doctor is Doctor as established inside five minutes, and everything else was fine. Didn't grab me like Eleven did (but I don't think anyone has yet).



Not digging the new theme (I thought the themes have gotten better since the earliest, and that was a definitelely a nod to the first which I think - which the insigiator whose contribution cannot be understated - was the least good).



Really didn't care for the "coming soon" sequence. Like, at all.

Let be honest - ulitmately, I don't really give a flying frack who is acting in the series - any series - I really don't, beyond a base level of competance. Sure I want people on things to be good at their job, but beyond speculation of matching a known person to an established character, I kind of don't care beyond that. I mean, this was basically a series credit before seeing the series. I recognised one name out of them (Lee Mack), so if the intention was so show all these famous actors or whatever, it completely failed. Maybe they are all well known folk, I dunno¹. But credits do not make my hyped for a show or a series, guys. There is a reason we generally have credits at the end (or in the opening titles as just names or whatever); at the end you can go "oh, that who did that bit" and actually have some appreciation for what they did (or not, if they were bad)². A lot of people in costume (and all of them human or very nearly human); I'm sorry, that does absolutely nothing for me, personally. It doesn't tell me anything other than "these people are in Dctor Who." Well, good for them, but... And? I don't watch, read or otherwise consume ANYTHING based just on who made it, who is in it, etc. At best, if it is someone/some crowd I have heard of and have a positive opinion of, it is a beneficialy mark for the Thing. But if, like, I dunno, after OotS, the Giant writes, like, a serious period drama in the, I dunno, early twentieth century or something, the best it would get from me would be a "well, 's probably well-executed for them as likes that sort of thing, which emphatically isn't me."

Show what WHAT is next, not (pun unintended but ironic) who, folks. And if you don't actually want to show spoilers... Then, y'know don't bother, for my money. Maybe you folk disagree, but it certainly completely failed to engender any hype in me.

That rant probably makes me sound far more emphatical and bothered about it than I really am, come to that. It just... Totally failed to do what I suspect they wanted it to do.



¹I mean, I didn't even know who Bradley Walsh is, aside from he has apparently Done Things that aren't acting and people were surprised at him Doing Acting and I had to goodle to confirm that he was the grandad - and I even read the RT where they muttered about the upcoming series.

²And, full discolosure, I DO sit through all the credits for telly and movies, even when there isn't a humours Marvel Stinger at the end, 'cos it's only polite.

[Calemyr]

Yea, remember the ''Cracks in Time" season of the 11th Doctor. Well, the cracks...um..erased everyone's memories of aliens. Except the cracks only really targeted the ''normal folks eating fish and chips" so all the world government people, scientists, UNIT and anyone a writer 'forgets' to have be effected still knows all about aliens.

Or something like that.

You raise a point. I do remember Eleven going on a rant about how a giant robot falling into the river should have made an appearance in history, but it didn't. So I guess the masquerade healed at some point.

Let be honest - ulitmately, I don't really give a flying frack who is acting in the series - any series - I really don't, beyond a base level of competance.

I suppose that's an understandable if see everyone as just skeletons with a bunch of crude flesh plastered on them. (Just a joke about your avatar, mind.)

[Lt-Murgen]

Yea, remember the ''Cracks in Time" season of the 11th Doctor. Well, the cracks...um..erased everyone's memories of aliens. Except the cracks only really targeted the ''normal folks eating fish and chips" so all the world government people, scientists, UNIT and anyone a writer 'forgets' to have be effected still knows all about aliens.

Or something like that.

Honestly, I had forgotten that everybody knew about aliens at one point. Aliens flashily invade and then get forgotten about so often in Doctor Who I just kind of assume the Masquerade is in place unless told otherwise at the beginning of the episode.

That bothered me a bit, so I went in and looked through it:

Series 5 ends with rebooting time, so everything before could, conceivably, be lost.
Series 6- Silence, but humanity forgets them as soon as they see them.
Series 7- "Power of 3" millions of tiny death cubes across earth. That would be known. Everything else was either out of modern memory or limited exposure.
Series 8: Massive plant growth across the world to avoid solar flare. The dead rising as cybermen. That would be known.
Series 9: Nothing that would show aliens to the world.
Series 10: Alien monks, but they are removed from the timeline.

Millions of death cubes, plants growing worldwide in a night, cybermen rising from graves. But yes, aliens aren't a thing.

[Psyren]

Maybe you folk disagree,

Yep!

Millions of death cubes, plants growing worldwide in a night, cybermen rising from graves. But yes, aliens aren't a thing.

Eh, two of those you could handwave away as a conspiracy. The cybermen came out of the ground, so anyone who doesn't already know what they are might not realize they came from space.

[Fyraltari]

The Monks turned the entire Earth into a police state for months and within the episode everybody had forgotten about them.

I have the headcanon that long term exposure to the Silence and natural selection have made it so humans are naturally prone to forget about the existence of aliens unless they come up close and personal in their lives.

By the time of the FUTURE^TM, the Silence has been gone long enough that the effect has worn off.

It's weak I know but it's something.

[Thufir]

Ultimately the Earth of Doctor Who exists in a permanent state of flux between people having learned about the existence of aliens because they've invaded so often and people being as sceptical about them as they are in the real world until directly confronted by them. It all depends on what story a given writer wants to write.

As I said up top, she seems like she's impersonating Capaldi's Doctor for a lot of the episode,

In comments elsewhere I've seen her performance compared to 7 of the previous Doctors. A lot of people think she's reminiscent of a previous incarnation, but they can't agree on which one.
Personally, I agree with you that I could easily imagine Peter Capaldi's Doctor delivering a lot of those same lines... but I could probably imagine any of the post-revival Doctors delivering them, and some of the Classic ones as well.

[Darth Ultron]

Millions of death cubes, plants growing worldwide in a night, cybermen rising from graves. But yes, aliens aren't a thing.

Yea, I guess they erased the all the 9th-10th Doctor's alien attacks, most notably the Darlek invasion(s), the spaceship hitting Big Ben, and the annual Christmas Invasion.

But, maybe, all the Old Who stuff does not get effected?

And all the other stuff is undone...so like the Master did not kill the president of the USA and the UK has no Torchwood? But other stuff did happen...sort of, as the world governments and UNIT remember them(but they did not happen?)

[Aotrs Commander]

I suppose that's an understandable if see everyone as just skeletons with a bunch of crude flesh plastered on them. (Just a joke about your avatar, mind.)

Not even that, really.

Just that a load of pictures of people I don't know (lich or otherwise¹), or people that I do know playing characters I don't know is just... Nothing to me. I might as well post up the photos of the cast of the panto that I do; it doesn't mean anything other than "these people you don't know are playing something you don't know in a thing."

Which is just... ...Yes?

People don't excite me, never have - EVERYTHING has to have some angle to it to hook me in, SOMETHING, be it lasers or magic or swords or coloured ponies or starships or mystery (if it has some additional angle like Science or Being In The 19th/early 20th Century) or robots or... Something.

All that showed me was this season of Doctor Who has Some Actors who are humans in it.

Thrilling.

Yep!

Do you recognise any of them, then?



(Or do you just get excited seeing random actors appearing in things...?

...

Okay, that might be being a little too facetious...)



¹I mean, if it was a Earth thing with Liches, then you might have my attention, because that might be promisingly interesting; but say, a production put on by the Aotrs would probably garner the same "meh."

[Psyren]

Do you recognise any of them, then?

I did, as my earlier post stated.

(EDIT: That would be #59 [/helpful])

[Cheesegear]

Couple of things I liked.
Couple of things I didn't like.

...Anything is better than Nardole.

[Rynjin]

In comments elsewhere I've seen her performance compared to 7 of the previous Doctors. A lot of people think she's reminiscent of a previous incarnation, but they can't agree on which one.
Personally, I agree with you that I could easily imagine Peter Capaldi's Doctor delivering a lot of those same lines... but I could probably imagine any of the post-revival Doctors delivering them, and some of the Classic ones as well.

She's definitely channeling Tennant. She even does the weird teeth...thing he does when he's thinking/tinkering.

He probably rubbed off on her when they were on Broadchurch.

All in all though, strong episode. The coincidence bothered me little; it's really not THAT huge of a contrivance and kept the plot moving at a pretty steady pace. Lots of good scenes, good acting, only marred by kind of a lame villain.

I liked the different direction being immediately apparent. Everything looks more personal; up closer to the actors, actual shadows and such, and a little more grounded in reality. Moffat's run had this weird, sterile, zoomed out, always brightly lit look in most of it that made you always 100% aware you're watching a TV show and made it really hard to put aside how SILLY so much of his run was.

[Fyraltari]

She's definitely channeling Tennant. She even does the weird teeth...thing he does when he's thinking/tinkering.

Or they're both channeling Davison.

[Delicious Taffy]

...Anything is better than Nardole.

Them's fightin' words, amigo.

[Psyren]

She's off to a strong start!

She's definitely channeling Tennant. She even does the weird teeth...thing he does when he's thinking/tinkering.

He probably rubbed off on her when they were on Broadchurch.

I was thinking the same thing!

Or they're both channeling Davison.

Something something Kevin Bacon

[Telonius]

One thing that struck me while watching the new episode - it really seemed like the Doctor was asking much more about other people's opinions, thoughts, and feelings than usual. There are probably lots of counter-examples to this, but it doesn't seem to me like that was ever a defining trait of any of the Doctors going back to 9 at least. It seems like this Doctor listens.

[Calemyr]

In comments elsewhere I've seen her performance compared to 7 of the previous Doctors. A lot of people think she's reminiscent of a previous incarnation, but they can't agree on which one.
Personally, I agree with you that I could easily imagine Peter Capaldi's Doctor delivering a lot of those same lines... but I could probably imagine any of the post-revival Doctors delivering them, and some of the Classic ones as well.

You know what? That seems like a really good thing. This means the Thirteenth Doctor is the Doctor. If her lines work regardless of the gender of the speaker, it means she's the Doctor in a female form rather than the Female Doctor. I was really worried we'd get the latter, as the worst kind of stunt casting, but if they keep this up I think I'll enjoy it.

[Malimar]

As I've said before elsewhere, they could make the Doctor a talking kangaroo and I'd just be happy Moffat is gone. I'm extremely looking forward to giving the new Doctor a try (I haven't yet, so I have little to contribute to this discussion).

...Anything is better than Nardole.

This is an interesting opinion to me, because my opinion is that Nardole was the only borderline-decent thing about Moffat's entire godsforsaken awful terrible no-good horrible very bad atrocious ****ty ****ing ****tastic run.

[Calemyr]

This is an interesting opinion to me, because my opinion is that Nardole was the only borderline-decent thing about Moffat's entire godsforsaken awful terrible no-good horrible very bad atrocious ****ty ****ing ****tastic run.

Don't hold back, now. Tell us what you really think.

Jokes aside, I didn't find all that much wrong with the Eleventh doctor's run, and the Twelfth Doctor's run was horribly written (with only a couple actually good episodes). I loved Capaldi's performance, but the writing was so bad I didn't like the outcome. I did like Nardole and Bill, though, as their bits were usually pretty good. Didn't like Clara, though.