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2019-04-23, 01:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
So I tried writing a Guide to Daemonic Rituals. And, aside from the funny search algorithm that would definitely arise out of that one, the thing became a nightmare when the Mathhammer started shaking out. It doesn't matter if you rolled a '17' on your Summoning roll, if you don't have the Points in Reinforcements to throw down a Bloodthirster anyway. How many Points did you put in Reinforcements? Well, what's the rest of your army like? What if you do put a few hundred points in Reinforcements, but can't make your Summoning roll to get that Bloodthirster? What do?
Overall, Summoning is basically just one of the things you have to learn. No-one can tell you which Maelstrom Objective to discard at the end of your turn. No-one can tell you which ITC Secondaries to pick. To put it simply, Summoning is a risk.
How many points do you put in Reinforcements? That's up to you.
What do you do when you don't roll high on your Summoning roll? Who knows?
The easiest Guides to write are the ones that I don't have to write.
Chaos Daemons coming soon, then. I guess.
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2019-04-23, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Funny story, Enrapturess is coming out for pre-order at the end of this week :D
But, for whatever reason its a 40$ kit. Well, in the US, dont wanna imagine AUS cost.
I can thus only conclude GW pricing staff is all made of skaven, and someone found their way to the warpstone stash, then snorted it. All of it.
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2019-04-23, 08:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
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2019-04-23, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
I think you could probably do a fairly loose summoning guide that was essentially "if you want a unit for (task), here are the units that will do that well. choose the best one off the list, except these because they're always bad." Like - and i'm pulling things out of thin air - "If you want a tough unit, summon Plaguebearers, unless you roll well enough for Plague Drones, which are also faster and can make a shooting attack: don't bother with Beasts because drones are just better". That kind of thing.
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2019-04-23, 08:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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2019-04-23, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
The TO has ruled that I don't have to take the power swords in the drop force, which makes it a much more tempting alternative, since that lets it come in exactly one point less than the current Supreme Command with the Shadowsword.
There will be Best in Faction awards, so including that takes me off of <Cadian> as my lowest common faction keyword, but mono-Guard is probably still not going to be that common."Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2019-04-23, 11:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
The havoc specialist detachment counters the dropforce somewhat hard; it forces you to dodge them if you go first, because if you dont your scions will get shredded by chaincannons. So keep that in mind, it was an unwelcome surprise last weekend during a friendly match.
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2019-04-24, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
"Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2019-04-24, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
At the end of your opponent's first movement phase, choose a [Detachment] unit, you can shoot as if it were the shooting phase.
You need to disembark before the movement phase is over, no way around it unless you want to risk the valkyrie getting blown up and doing nothing. So, since your scions are now on the ground, the other player can choose one of his Havoc or Obliterator units and wipe them out before you get to shoot with them. Not an auto-lose, but still something to play around, which can mess up your whole deployment plan if you dont take it into account.
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2019-04-25, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2016
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Ohhh that is a nasty counter using what is pretty much an auto-include for a chaos force. Even if you don't use the chain cannons, any threat hopping out of a transport is hosed. Granted, Storm troopers are essentially an MSU detachment so you will have more units than he can punishingly volley but it forces the player to double up on such a deadly unit to his infantry. That said my own 2k-2.5k armies have other high threat targets they may want to go for over less than 100pt storm trooper squads and those havoks will not live to their turn.
I think a decent counter to the counter would be simply going second(if the option is there). In my case, I think my army is robust enough to weather a first turn, especially since it has the CP to pop the armor save bonus plus have later arriving troop units to take objectives(not necessarily hold them for long though). A lot of guard armies should be able to hold the line in this case be them tank or infantry heavy unless they are flat out facing a chaos gunline army which would have to have more than just rotorcannon havoks to be viable especially in a TAC list.
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2019-04-25, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Well, given the range of 24", there isnt much they'll be able to punish on the first round, but they can always split fire if you throw 2 units (which is what fits inside a valkyrie, and since they drop through a strat its only the one valkyrie sallying forward, unless you want to risk it with the roll from the chutes). Since Scions get at best the same 24" range and really want to be in 12" (for rapid fire or melta) then its a bit of a hard situation. Also, valkyries footprint is pretty big, so its not like it can really park wherever.
Going second you risk getting tied up by warptime'd / dark matter crystal troops, so your shooting suffers. If you move the valkyrie it can get shot down, if you hover it loses hard to hit, and with the new prayers and Veterans chaos gunlines hurt quite a bit. As said, not an auto-win, but they are much better than they used to.
Oh, and in their turn one unit shoots twice, because slaanesh. Likely at 2+, with a +1 to wound (or +2 on oblits, wounding T8 on 3+ on their worst fleshmetal roll).
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2019-04-25, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Indiana
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Pending the FAQ, I'm looking at something like this.
Spoiler
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 8CP, 485pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Battle-forged CP [3CP]
Detachment CP [5CP]
Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian
+ HQ +
Company Commander [2 PL, 38pts]: Laspistol, Power fist
Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave
+ Troops +
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 56pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Heavy Weapon Team: Autocannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 66pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 66pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 56pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Flamer
. Heavy Weapon Team: Autocannon
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol
+ Elites +
Commissar [2 PL, 24pts]: Bolt pistol, Power fist
+ Heavy Support +
Manticore [8 PL, 133pts]: Heavy Bolter
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [55 PL, , 924pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Detachment CP [1CP]
Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian
Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Emperor's Fist Tank Company
+ HQ +
Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 220pts]: Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannons
. Command Executioner: Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon
Tank Commander [12 PL, 200pts]: Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolters, Lascannon
. Command Battle Tank: Battle Cannon
+ Heavy Support +
Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 168pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 168pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 168pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolters
++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [35 PL, 4CP, 590pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Detachment CP [5CP]
Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus
Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Tempestus Drop Force
+ HQ +
Lord Commissar [4 PL, 35pts]: Bolt pistol, Power sword
Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 41pts]: Bolt Pistol, Tempestus Drop Force
+ Troops +
Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 67pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. 2x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol
Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 73pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. 2x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol
Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 73pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. 2x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol
Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 67pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. 2x Scion
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol
+ Flyer +
Valkyries [8 PL, 117pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. Valkyrie: Hellstrike Missiles, Multi-laser
Valkyries [8 PL, 117pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. Valkyrie: Hellstrike Missiles, Multi-laser
++ Total: [116 PL, 12CP, 1999pts] ++
I can drop three of the flamers back to grenade launchers to take multiple rocket pods on the Valks. The flamers are basically there for Overwatch purposes, but Overwatch observing weapons range cramps that a little bit against things that actually want to charge."Courage is the complement of fear. A fearless man cannot be courageous. He is also a fool." -- Robert Heinlein
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2019-04-25, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
What's a good starting set for Orks?
Looking for the 500-1,000 point range.I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
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2019-04-26, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Warboss
Big Mek with SAG
Boyz (x30); 2:1 Shootas:Sluggas.
Gretchin (x10)
Gretchin (x10)
Painboy
Nobz (x5)*
Lootas (x15)
Deff Dread*
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
Weirdboy
* 'Cause you bought the SC! box by accident so you may as well. Interestingly - and stupidly - the Ork SC! box has no HQs in it because GW changed the rules.
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2019-04-28, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Holy crap Ynnari taking the sideways nerf.
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2019-04-28, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
That White Dwarf better comes with an R rating, seeing how hard they f****d Ynnari. I mean, their gutting of Acts of Faith looks competitive compared the the pile of **** the new Strength from Death is. And what they gave them is like slapping a band aid on the bloody stump of a severed arm.
Meanwhile, Orks get HQs who can one-shot Knights from 60" away, wrapped by 200 grots and thats just fine.
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2019-04-28, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
"Ynnari are garbage, Orks OP; GW plz".
Jesus H. Christ, we have come so far in the last year - whoever would have imagined that line only a short time ago?~ CAUTION: May Contain Weasels ~
RPG Characters What I Done Played As (Explained Badly)
17 Things I Learned About 40k By Playing Dark Heresy
Tales of a Role-Play Gamer - Horrible Optimisation
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2019-04-28, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
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2019-04-28, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
- Ynnari lost the ability to take Unique Characters and Solitaires.
- Ynnari now lose their <Craftworld>, <Wych Cult>, <Kabal> and <Masque> Keywords.
- <Ynnari> is not a Faction Keyword.
- They don't count as the above Detachments anymore, losing their access to Traits, Abilities, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Relics and Psychic Powers (and TOs).*
- That means that there's no longer a downside to taking <Kabal> and <Wych Cult> units in the same Detachment, and your new Keyword is <Reborn Drukhari>.
Strength From Death is now a Fight-phase only ability. No more free Charges, extra Shooting or whatever bulls*. SfD is now Always Strike First. That's it. Cool. The current Dark Reaper spam is dead. Cherry-picking out a Solitaire in a Vanguard is now illegal. If you play Drukhari Ynnari, you probably wont notice the change. In fact if you're playing Drukhari Ynnari, you'll notice a buff, if anything.
* What you're given in return is a hodgepodge of a selection of Drukhari, Craftworlds and Harlequins stuff with new names. Meaning that Ynnari essentially get 'a bit of everything' while not being as good as any other 'pure' Aeldari Faction.
...
Basically, if you were playing Ynnari like a ****, and using it to spam Dark Reapers or shoot a Solitaire at any Character on the board wherever it may be, you're SOOL. Shining Spears are still fine. One of the replacement Ynnari Stratagems is just the Saim-Hann Stratagem with a new name...Except now you can't Fight twice because SfD is the sux, so Shining Spears aren't b0rked no more...SO THAT MEANS THEY SUCK LOLOLOOLOL.
If you were playing Ynnari like a casual, you will only see buffs.
Disclosure; I don't play Ynnari and I actively hate Craftworlds. So, I only see good things, here.
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2019-04-28, 09:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
On a different subject:
We just had a guy join our narrative campaign to sub-in for a tyranid player who doesnt have the time to come to the store anymore. He wants to play Genestealer Cults, with a focus on Brood Brothers; he usually plays Guard, but since we already have a Guard player he didnt want to repeat it, and since he is replacing a Tyranid we all felt this way it made sense. The Brood Brothers focus is so he can use stuff he has, but its not a set in stone thing.
So with that in mind, does anyone have a 1500 list they could suggest? Just as a reference, he'll work from there and tailor as he tries stuff.
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2019-04-29, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
It does look like a mostly positive change. A massive nerf, but Ynnari needed a massive nerf because they were stupid. I'm not super fond of it being a +1 to hit, I would've prefered +1 to wound, or even +1 S. Or +1 A. It'll be nice on Wraithblades I guess.
I am looking forward to using the new Word of the Phoenix, by respawning Vypers. They are a Biker unit after all.
Still it does look like the death of competitive Ynnari.Spoiler: I'm a writer!Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"here[/URL]
]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha
I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP
Procrastination: MLP
Spoiler: Original FictionThe Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.
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2019-04-29, 06:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Looks like there is little reason to play Ynnari over Aeldari now. Makes for a change, at least.
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2019-04-29, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
I find myself totally agreeing with Cheesegear for once. They toned them down, gave them their own stuff to make them their own faction instead of just super powered select units from other factions with no downsides. I see this as win win overall.
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2019-04-29, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
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2019-04-29, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
THE FAQ HAS DROPPED!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-2/
I'll read it after work.
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2019-04-29, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Not much to see, its 'We need to sell Orks and the Enrapturess: The FAQ'.
Some of the assertions are laughable, but then, GW doesnt actually owe us any justification, so whatever.
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2019-04-29, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
I was only able to scan the general changes, but here's what I got:
- Units with <FLY> can fly over other models in the charge phase again
- Beta bolter rules don't affect vehicles (but still dreadnoughts/helbrutes)
- The Castellan (but not the Valiant) got a ~100 point bump
- Models can move within 1" of and through fliers, but can't end their move on the base
- Operative Requisition Sanctioned went up(I think, I can't remember the original cost) to 2CP.
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2019-04-29, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Also no more getting 9 Daemon Princes because they all come from a different Codex, so there's that.
The change to prevent flyers from just zooming up and blocking things is pretty interesting to me - it's narratively interesting but also a pretty noteworthy change for moving units in certain matchups.
Rotate Ion Shields changed to be 4++ max and cost 3CP for DOMINUS only
No more Cypher Assassins in Chaos
Overall pretty solid changes but nothing over the top.
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2019-04-29, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
- Wobbly Models; Hey, people need to be explained to what Impassable Terrain is because the competitive gaming scene is ****ed.
- "I can have half my model off the table, because the rules don't say I can't." See above. This is a very big deal for Fliers and similar models where the model is larger than the base. The base is not the model. The model is the model. No part of the model may go over the edge of the battlefield...Y'know...How it's been played in every single edition.
- Can't Charge if you disembarked from a Destroyed transport this turn. Fair enough. I've never seen anyone pull this off. But apparently it's a thing. 'Kay.
- Models with <Fly> can now move over models in the Charge phase, but not terrain. Good.
- New Keyword; <Aircraft>. Basically means 'A model you can move through even though it has a base.'
- Clearing up some thing about 'teleporting' on the battlefield that everyone with a brain already knew. Seriously, who was saying that if you remove a unit from the table, and set it up again, all wounds are restored? Who the **** was playing that rule!? I would've had some words to say if that was my opponent.
- Daemon Princes now count as the same Datasheet. Putting 'Cult' in front of your GSC Guard doesn't stop them being Guard anymore. So, that's a bit of a shame.
- Bolter Discipline no longer affects <Vehicles>, so I'll just throw my Land Raider Crusaders and Stormraven back on the shelf, then.
- Deathwatch can't use SIA and Bolter Discipline at the same time...REKT.
- Giving your entire army Cover if you go second doesn't apply to <Aircraft>. Fair enough.
- Tactical Restraint was more specific on things that do give more than one CP per round. i.e; Stratagems only. Go, go, Assassins!
- Official from GW: Summoned units don't count as Reinforcements, thus Tactical Reserves doesn't apply. Summoned units can come onto the board on Turn 1, and after Turn 3. Not just an ITC ruling anymore.
- Not a new rule per se, but Craftworlds' Rangers still nerfed (and Ynnari sucks now).
- Rotate Ion Shields is nerfed to 4+, instead of 3+. Rekt.
- Your opponent auto-breaks Death Grip if they roll a 6, regardless of Strength.
- GSC's Mental Onslaught stops if your opponent rolls a 6.
- Operative Requisition Sanctioned nerfed to 2 CPs, and you can't use it at all if your army already contains any <Officio Assassinorum> units. Rekt. No more 3+1 Assassins.
- Mob Up got nerfed. Slightly.
- Craftworlds' Powers taking the hard nerf, as they only affect <Asuryani> units, not <Aeldari> units. ****in' annihilated.
- Knight Castellans went up in points.
Things that did not happen;
Guard weren't nerfed.
Daemons weren't nerfed. (Well, spamming Daemon Princes was)
Gretchin weren't nerfed.
Biggest Losers; Craftworlds.
...Even worse 'cause Ynnari leaked, and they're terrible, too.
...Although I would strongly argue that Deathwatch might've been nerfed back to being almost unplayable.
I count one buff, and, really, it's more like an un-nerfing; <Fly> is good again now. It's not broken. But it is good.
Technically you might include the <Aircraft> Keyword addition as a buff, because it gives you an option you didn't have, before.
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2019-04-29, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It
Not pictured: Necrons continuing to receive nothing.
NPC feels bad man.