Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVI: If it Ain't Broke, Nerf It

[Wraith]

If you want anti-horde flyers you take the Drukhari one, which also has poison in case Toughness is a concern.

That's what I was thinking of. I was trying to think of something from the Aeldari/Drukhari list that came 2nd at LVO and mixed up Crimson Hunters for Hemlock Fighters (I think?). Something like that, anyway - flyer spam was the gist of it.

[LansXero]

That's what I was thinking of. I was trying to think of something from the Aeldari/Drukhari list that came 2nd at LVO and mixed up Crimson Hunters for Hemlock Fighters (I think?). Something like that, anyway - flyer spam was the gist of it.

Wont work anymore now that you cant bottleneck green retards from waaghing their way into your gunlines. There just arent enough shots to deal with so much trash, and you need the high S fire to remove mek gunz and similar.

[Renegade Paladin]

Fresh back from the Circle City Grand Tournament. I took best in faction for Imperial Guard and 20th overall out of a field of 50, going 3-2-0. (What did I say a few days ago about "Imperial Guard" lists suddenly not finishing near the top now that faction reporting rules have changed?)

My list:

Spoiler

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++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Imperial Guard) [26 PL, 8CP, 477pts] ++

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian


+ HQ [4 PL, 84pts] +

Company Commander [2 PL, 38pts]: Grand Strategist, Laspistol, Power fist [8pts], Warlord

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave [8pts]

+ Troops [12 PL, 236pts] +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 53pts]
. Grenade Launcher [3pts]
. Autocannon [10pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
. Grenade Launcher [3pts]
. Lascannon [20pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 63pts]
. Grenade Launcher [3pts]
. Lascannon [20pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 57pts]
. Plasma gun [7pts]
. Autocannon [10pts]
. Sergeant [4pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Elites [2 PL, 24pts] +

Commissar [2 PL, 24pts]: Bolt pistol [1pts], Power fist [8pts]

+ Heavy Support [8 PL, 133pts] +

Manticore [8 PL, 133pts]: Heavy Bolter [8pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Imperial Guard) [55 PL, , 924pts] ++

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Cadian

Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Emperor's Fist Tank Company [-1CP]


+ HQ [25 PL, 420pts] +

Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 220pts]: Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolter [8pts], Plasma Cannons [20pts]
. Command Executioner [15pts]: Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon [15pts]

Tank Commander [12 PL, 200pts]: Emperor's Fist, Heavy Bolters [16pts], Lascannon [20pts]
. Command Battle Tank [22pts]: Battle Cannon [22pts]

+ Heavy Support [30 PL, 504pts] +

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 168pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank [10 PL, 168pts]: Battle Cannon [22pts], Heavy Bolter [8pts], Heavy Bolters [16pts]

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 168pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank [10 PL, 168pts]: Battle Cannon [22pts], Heavy Bolter [8pts], Heavy Bolters [16pts]

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 168pts]: Emperor's Fist
. Leman Russ Battle Tank [10 PL, 168pts]: Battle Cannon [22pts], Heavy Bolter [8pts], Heavy Bolters [16pts]





++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Imperial Guard) [35 PL, 3CP, 598pts] ++

Field Commander [-1CP]

Regimental Doctrine: Regiment: Millitarum Tempestus

Vigilus Defiant [-1CP]: Tempestus Drop Force [-1CP]


+ HQ [7 PL, 76pts] +

Lord Commissar [4 PL, 35pts]: Bolt pistol [1pts], Power sword [4pts]

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 41pts]: Bolt Pistol [1pts], Tempestus Drop Force, WT (Tempestus Drop Force): Grave-Chute Commando

+ Troops [12 PL, 280pts] +

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 67pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. 2x Plasma guns [22pts]
. Tempestor [9pts]: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 67pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. 2x Plasma guns [22pts]
. Tempestor [9pts]: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 73pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. 2x Meltaguns [28pts]
. Tempestor [9pts]: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 73pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. 2x Meltaguns [28pts]
. Tempestor [9pts]: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Flyer [16 PL, 242pts] +

Valkyries [8 PL, 121pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. Valkyrie [121pts]: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods [16pts], Multi-laser [5pts]

Valkyries [8 PL, 121pts]: Tempestus Drop Force
. Valkyrie [121pts]: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods [16pts], Multi-laser [5pts]


++ Total: [116 PL, 11CP, 1999pts] ++

Played against:

Spoiler: Round One

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Chaos Daemons Battalion - Tzeentch

Changecaster

Fateskimmer

Horrors
-Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 30x Pink Horror

Horrors
-Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 30x Pink Horror

Horrors
-13x Pair of Brimstone Horrors

Thousand Sons Battalion

Ahriman

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
-Malefic Talon, Wings

Tzaangors
-Brayhorn, 24x Tzaangor with Tzaangor blades
-Twistbray - Tzaangor Blades

Tzaangors
-Brayhorn, 24x Tzaangor with Tzaangor blades
-Twistbray - Tzaangor Blades

Tzaangors
-Brayhorn, 24x Tzaangor with Tzaangor blades
-Twistbray - Tzaangor Blades

Thousand Sons Battalion

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
-Warlord: High Magister
-Malefic Talon, Wings

Sorcerer
-Dark Matter Crystal, Force Sword, Inferno Bolt Pistol

Chaos Cultists
-Autoguns

Chaos Cultists
-Autoguns

Chaos Cultists
-Autoguns

I didn't get a second turn, because time was called at the end of the top of turn two. That's basically all I can say about this game. In that one turn I scored ten points, for an end score of 10-16.

Spoiler: Round Two

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Ultramarines Battalion - Indomitus Crusaders

Marneus Calgar in the Armor of Heracles
-Warlord

Primaris Lieutenant
-Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle

Infiltrator Squad
-4x Infiltrator, Infiltrator Sergeant

Intercessor Squad
-2x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, bolt rifles
-Veteran Intercessors

Scout Squad
-10x Scouts, heavy bolter

Ultramarines Spearhead

Chief Librarian Tigurius

Eliminator Squad
-3x bolt sniper rifles, camo cloaks

Thunderfire Cannon
-Techmarine gunner
--Servo-harness

Relic Leviathan Dreadnought
-2x heavy flamer, 2x storm cannon array

Ultramarines Vanguard Detachment - Victrix Guard

Primaris Captain
-Power fist, plasma pistol

Primaris Chaplain
-The Armor Indomitus? (He had a 2+ save for some reason and I think that's the only way.)

Primaris Ancient

Victrix Honor Guard

Victrix Honor Guard

Repulsor
-3x storm bolters, auto launchers, 2x Ironhail heavy stubber, 2x Krakstorm grenade launcher Las-talon, twin lascannon

This was fairly straightforward. He summoned a Vindicare assassin which proceeded to be irritating with the Eliminators until I decided to have Pask take care of the problem. I blew up the Repulsor and made the Victrix Guard blob in it walk. PriMarneus stood in the back with the thunderfire cannon, Intercessors, and Leviathan to make a fire base, which the drop force proceeded to take care of, along with the Scouts. I took the whole list apart at range, with the hiking Victrix Guard almost making it to assault. The wounded Captain and the Ancient fell when assaulted by one of my Russes (with Crush Them!), the Commissar, and Primaris Psyker. The psyker beat the Captain to death with his force staff. I won 15-10.

Spoiler: Round Three

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Snakebites Brigade

Big Mek (Index)
-Big Choppa, Brog's Buzzbomb, Kustom Force Field

Warboss
-Attack squig, Da Killa Klaw, Kustom Shoota
-Warlord: Surly as a Squiggoth

Weirdboy
-Da Jump

Weirdboy
-Warpath

Gretchin
-10x gretchin

Gretchin
-10x gretchin

Gretchin
-10x gretchin

Gretchin
-10x gretchin

Gretchin
-10x gretchin

Gretchin
-10x gretchin

Meganobz
-10x Kustom Shoota, 10x Power Klaw

Meganobz
-10x Kustom Shoota, 10x Power Klaw

Nobz
-10x Big Choppa

Nobz
-10x Big Choppa

Deff Kopta
-Bigbomm, twin big shoota

Deff Kopta
-Bigbomm, twin big shoota

Deff Kopta
-Bigbomm, twin big shoota

Mek Gunz
-Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz
-Smasha Gun

Mek Gunz
-Smasha Gun

Deathskulls Supreme Command - Dread WAAAGH!

Big Mek
-Shokk Attack Gun: Da Souped-up Shokka

Big Mek
-Shokk Attack Gun

Big Mek
-Shokk Attack Gun

You can guess. The spring nerfs were a day too late for the tournament's cutoff, so he mobbed up the Meganobs and threw them at my center, and then next turn mobbed up the Nobs and threw them at my right. It was a close run game and I ended the last turn in firm control of four of the five objectives, but ITC being what it is, that doesn't matter. The game ended for time on turn three, 10-12.

Spoiler: Round 4

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Nurgle Daemons Battalion

Poxbringer
-Warlord

Sloppity Bilepiper

Nurglings
-3x Nurgling swarms

Plaguebearers
-Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 24x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

Plaguebearers
-Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 24x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

Death Guard Superheavy Auxiliary Detachment

Mortarion

Death Guard Supreme Command Detachment

Daemon Prince
-Wings, Malefic talon, Nurgle

Daemon Prince
-Wings, Malefic talon, Nurgle

Spoilpox Scriviner

Blightlord Terminators
-10x Terminators
-8x Bubotic axe and combi-plasma
-2x Flail of Corruption

I tabled this list in three turns. He blew the psychic test to put Warptime on Mortarion after setting up to rocket into my line with him in the movement phase, and that was all she wrote; Morty was there flapping in the breeze right in front of my entire gun line. I dropped the melta storm troopers in front of him and then wound up not needing them to kill him, though in the second turn it turned out to be a good thing I did, because putting them there meant the Blightlords couldn't deep strike near the objective and had to charge storm troopers instead. The plasma squads and both Valkyries moved into his back lines and began clearing out the Plaguebearers. Turn two was a mop up operation and he conceded at the bottom of two with no threats left. We counted it as a three turn tabling so that his score wasn't zeroed out; I didn't want to do that to him since he wasn't trying to limit my score to benefit his team, which is what that ITC rule is designed to prevent. Final score was 36-8.

Spoiler: Round Five

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Death Guard Battalion

Chaos Lord
-Plasma pistol power fist

Chaos Lord
-Plasma pistol power fist

Daemon Prince of Nurgle
-Fugaris' Helm, 2x malefic talon, wings, Warlord

Chaos cultists
-10x cultists, autoguns

Plague Marines

Plague Marines

Foul Blightspawn

Foul Blightspawn

Plagueburst Crawler
-2x plaguespitter, heavy slugger, plagueburst mortar

Plagueburst Crawler
-2x plaguespitter, heavy slugger, plagueburst mortar

Chaos Rhino
-Havoc launcher

Chaos Rhino
-Havoc launcher

Renegade Knights Super-Heavy Auxiliary

Renegade Knight
-Heavy stubber, 2x Avenger gatling cannon and heavy flamer

Chaos Daemons Patrol

Bloodmaster
-Blade of Blood

Skulltaker

Bloodletters
-Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 27x Bloodletter and Bloodreaper all with Hellblades

This guy was inexperienced and the terrain on the table was good looking (a table-spanning highway overpass) but a real pain in the rear to play around, so we only got in two turns. He went first and spent nearly all his command points pre-game, so by the time my shooting phase rolled around he had nothing left to rotate ion shields on the Knight. I blew it up immediately. The Bloodletters were the only real problem after that, and I think I could have handled them if the game had gone on, but we didn't get to find out. I won 8-6.

[Brookshw]

Why not? They don't get any faction bonuses which does suck, but they are a good tank in of itself.

That aside, they also need their own detachment. Better options are available imo.

[Forum Explorer]

That aside, they also need their own detachment. Better options are available imo.

Better, perhaps. But for that particular list it was for a person who had Guard and was just getting into Genestealer Cults, and apparently wanted a list that had a strong focus on Brood Brothers.

[LansXero]

Better, perhaps. But for that particular list it was for a person who had Guard and was just getting into Genestealer Cults, and apparently wanted a list that had a strong focus on Brood Brothers.

Yes, thank you very much for that. Its more of an ease of transition thing and slowly adding new stuff with a core that he already knows how to work with.

[Cheesegear]

Don't quite know where to put this...

So, some D&D minis are molded with clear plastic. I tried using Glazes...It looks kinda bad.
Anyone have any ideas for painting clear plastic? Should I be looking outside Citadel paints?

inb4;
For those waiting on a Chaos Daemons Guide and a BoaB for Death Guard...Yeah. I'm DMing two different games at the moment. So a lot of my time is currently planning out D&D sessions.

[Wraith]

So, some D&D minis are molded with clear plastic. I tried using Glazes...It looks kinda bad.
Anyone have any ideas for painting clear plastic? Should I be looking outside Citadel paints?.

I'm guessing that you are trying to keep them transparent and just tint them, rather than opaque layers like normal miniatures. In which case, specialist paints would be recommended - GW ones aren't transparent as such, they're just a higher ratio of water-to-pigment than their normal opaque paints so that their coverage is thinner.

I haven't used them myself, but Fantasy Film seems to be a decent brand, though you can get generic "glass paints" from hobby and art stores which might work too.

[Requizen]

So KT:Elites also has Chapter Tactics/Craftworld Traits/etc in it. That is definitely interesting, adds more customization to a game already really focused on "your dudes".

https://www.warhammer-community.com/...mepage-post-1/

Seems pretty solid, I skipped Commanders (since I'm still not sure if it's even something most people use), but this looks like a fun addition to the game.

[Wraith]

So KT:Elites also has Chapter Tactics/Craftworld Traits/etc in it. That is definitely interesting, adds more customization to a game already really focused on "your dudes".

This is exactly what should have been in the game from the beginning - the ability to play "Blood Angels" or "Iron Hands" rather than just "red Space Marines". Hopefully they'll introduce every Chapter, Craftworld and faction and not just the more popular ones for as much variety as possible.

I'm still not entirely sold on the Elite units themselves. I consider myself something of an aficionado of small-scale skirmish games and in my experience introducing large elite units to fight along side small warbands where numbers, rather than quality, are what makes the difference.... GW are going to have to work very, very hard to make sure that these units are not utterly OP or otherwise just plain underwhelming.

[Brookshw]

Don't quite know where to put this...

So, some D&D minis are molded with clear plastic. I tried using Glazes...It looks kinda bad.
Anyone have any ideas for painting clear plastic? Should I be looking outside Citadel paints?

Similar to your current attempts, have you looked into Army Painter's Inks?

[Wardog]

Slightly disappointed that Guard by the looks of it still don't get veterans.

[Requizen]

This is exactly what should have been in the game from the beginning - the ability to play "Blood Angels" or "Iron Hands" rather than just "red Space Marines". Hopefully they'll introduce every Chapter, Craftworld and faction and not just the more popular ones for as much variety as possible.

I'm still not entirely sold on the Elite units themselves. I consider myself something of an aficionado of small-scale skirmish games and in my experience introducing large elite units to fight along side small warbands where numbers, rather than quality, are what makes the difference.... GW are going to have to work very, very hard to make sure that these units are not utterly OP or otherwise just plain underwhelming.

I like the idea of Elites in the game - one or two "shock troops" that are powerful enough to warrant attention, but remembering that KT is a game with limited turns and activations, they might end up being worthless if used incorrectly. It depends on execution, of course - too cheap and they're ubiquitous, too expensive and it's a useless book (other than subfactions).

Slightly disappointed that Guard by the looks of it still don't get veterans.

Hm, it's odd, but what do they bring that you don't already get from Scions? Similar weapon options (same save for Volley Guns, no? I'm not super familiar), similar profiles, obviously people want to use their own dudes but it seems a bit redundant. Though that's never stopped GW before

[Wardog]

Hm, it's odd, but what do they bring that you don't already get from Scions? Similar weapon options (same save for Volley Guns, no? I'm not super familiar), similar profiles, obviously people want to use their own dudes but it seems a bit redundant. Though that's never stopped GW before

Not as redundant as Infantry and Special Weapons teams.

Anyway, the main advantage of Veterans (other than being slightly cheaper due to worse save) would be weapon selection: shotgun and heavy flamer (also sniper rifles, which Scions don't get).

And if they opened up the weapon selection slightly, you could even recreate the Last Chancers.

[druid91]

I'm hoping they balance a little better than Commanders.

A Dominus is not worth two Exalted Sorcerers.

[Ornithologist]

I think hitting outside Citidel paints would probably be your best bet.

Some of the technicle paints Like Warpstone green/Soulstone blue/Spirit Stone Red might work for you.

Vallejo is my prefered paint brand when I go outside Citidel. Though if you are okay working with enamel/oil based paints, you should try Testor's Model master paints. They have shades for painting headlights and tail lights on model cars that dry transparent. But you will need to be careful as those paints need to be thinned and cleaned from brushes with acetone, and you might not want to use the same brush for bot hkinds of paint.

[9mm]

Warhamer fest previews are up

Contrast paints are in fact not quickshade.

transport and a light tank for the Mechanicus

and the Repulsor gets razorbacked.

[Turalisj]

Yay transport, boo the tank being light.

[druid91]

Doesn't say it's light. Just fast moving.

[Saambell]

Now i need to see a diorama of the new mechanicus transport overrun by a ripper swarm.

[Wraith]

9mm's links is updating in real time. Also announced since they posted it:

Middle Earth: Scouring of the Shire stuff (Has anyone played this in the last 5 years? Even the Hobbit stuff felt like a stretch after Smaug came out, but that they're still producing all this stuff from the books is truly surprising)

40k: Codex Chaos Knights, Aeronautica Imperialis, Apocalypse expansion

Necromunda: Enforcers Gang, Delaque upgrade kits and a bunch of new hired guns, including another Squat.

Blood Bowl: Halflings, Deeproot Strongbranch Treeman (special character), Wood Elves and Willow Rosebark (WElf/Halfling special character)

Adeptus Titanicus: Weapons and accessories upgrade kits, and more scenery

Warcry: Realm of Life Aelf/snake-themed warband

30k/Forgeworld: White Scars Terminators, Dreadnoughts, Lieutenants(?)/Chapter Masters(?), Jetbikes, land Speeders, Blood Angels Dreadnought-variant, Captain Raldoran, Legio Custodies gunship, 30k-era Chaos Daemons

Hobby: New "Contrast" paints, which combine basecoat & shade in one pot rather than 2 separate steps.

[Blackhawk748]

Ad Mech finally get a vehicle that isn't our wonderful little Onager. Thank the Omnissiah! Now lets take a look at...

Why is it a Higgin's boat? Seriously? We're supposed to be the Iron Fist of the Machine God and we ride around in a Higgen's boat on a Repulsor sled. Thats stupid. God it even just looks like its a modern day hovercraft! It just has smaller fans.

The Disintegrator is...better? Why the front end slopes the wrong direction I don't know (its not even aesthetically pleasing, so I honestly have no idea) but barring that fact it looks fine. Now please don't overcost it.

[Forum Explorer]

Ad Mech finally get a vehicle that isn't our wonderful little Onager. Thank the Omnissiah! Now lets take a look at...

Why is it a Higgin's boat? Seriously? We're supposed to be the Iron Fist of the Machine God and we ride around in a Higgen's boat on a Repulsor sled. Thats stupid. God it even just looks like its a modern day hovercraft! It just has smaller fans.

The Disintegrator is...better? Why the front end slopes the wrong direction I don't know (its not even aesthetically pleasing, so I honestly have no idea) but barring that fact it looks fine. Now please don't overcost it.

I like that it's a Higgin's boat. But more to the point, what would you put in it?

Fingers crossed for the Disintegrator.

[Blackhawk748]

I like that it's a Higgin's boat. But more to the point, what would you put in it?

Fingers crossed for the Disintegrator.

I have no real idea. Use it as a mobile bunker as its obviously open topped? Also, we already have a Higgins boat, its called a Gorgon Armored Assault Transport, and its awesome. This thing is just... kinda on the small side and makes me go "why don't they just use a Rhino"

I'll sit here and hope.

[Turalisj]

I like that it's a Higgin's boat. But more to the point, what would you put in it?

Fingers crossed for the Disintegrator.

Full squad of vanguard. Electro-priests to go zap safely inside a flying bunker.

[Tome]

I would love an open topped transport for my Tau.

[PraetorDragoon]

So am I right in thinking that Apocalypse is a different sidegame than regular 40k instead of just an expansion?

[Avaris]

So am I right in thinking that Apocalypse is a different sidegame than regular 40k instead of just an expansion?

Yup. Is apparently designed to play in just a few hours, so similar lengthof time to a game of 40k, unlike the Apocalypse games of old.

It’s quite an intriguing approach. The preview says that if you have a 40k army you have an Apocalypse detachment, but I wonder how much variety there will be in Apocalypse formations. Will it be a case of ‘this detachment has 30 marines in’, or will we be specifying unit rolls still? In any case, I’m quite keen for it, particularly with online rules available, which will hopefully massively reduce the buy in cost for play groups.

[PraetorDragoon]

Yup. Is apparently designed to play in just a few hours, so similar lengthof time to a game of 40k, unlike the Apocalypse games of old.

It’s quite an intriguing approach. The preview says that if you have a 40k army you have an Apocalypse detachment, but I wonder how much variety there will be in Apocalypse formations. Will it be a case of ‘this detachment has 30 marines in’, or will we be specifying unit rolls still? In any case, I’m quite keen for it, particularly with online rules available, which will hopefully massively reduce the buy in cost for play groups.

That sounds pretty interesting to be honest.

[Wraith]

By the sounds of it, it's rules for Team Based "multi-player" battles. What in 40k would be my "army" would in Apocalypse be a "Detachment" and the book tells us how me and my 3 allies work together in order to fight you and your allies.

I like the idea that has been described in the article though - damage is resolved at the end of the turn, so everyone always gets to act without being alpha-striked into obsolescence in turn 1. Given that the example also describes using a Reaver Titan I wouldn't be surprised if they reintroduce D-strength weapons, or at least an 8th Edition equivalent.
I also wonder how it will work without templates for macroweapons - that was a key point of titans being able to fire on entire board sections rather than just one guy, but I'll be quite surprised if they too are brought back.