Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough

[Zevox]

Well, first thread's on page 51, and nobody else has made this yet, so here we go.

I think I've encountered a potential bug? In act 1, doing the "investigate the beach" quest.

Spoiler: Act 1

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So, I didn't know this could be a quest, because my first time through I did not go down to this beach until after multiple long rests, so when I got there the Harpies attacked me as soon as I got near the cliffs, and the kid was already dead over on their island. Nice to be able to save him this time... except the quest tells me to talk to him after, and I seemingly can't. No conversation will start, he'll just have phrases like "Leave me alone," "No," or "No time to talk" appear over his head when I try. I thought maybe the game was thinking he was still charmed by the Harpies and re-did the fight a couple of times to make sure he wasn't in that state at the end of the fight, but that didn't change anyway. Anyone know anything about this by any chance?

Edit: And nevermind I guess, the quest just randomly completed itself, saying the kid left the beach safely. Weird.

Nearing the end of act 1. Still super annoyed with the controls.

Is there a better way to navigate the party around hazards, other than going into turn-based mode and maneuvering every character through them by themselves? Because I'm in the Underdark, it's full of toxic and explosive things and it's super annoying to spend 3/4 of my playtime in TB mode trying not to step on super obvious traps that area already discovered.

In my experience: toss fire cantrips at the explosive mushrooms to get rid of them, and go around the gas vents, which are only really a few near the start of the area and don't block anything anyway. I honestly didn't find those things to be a problem, personally. I had to use turn-based mode to get around all the vents in the

Spoiler: Act 1

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Hag's lair,

But that's a very different situation with a lot more of them and no route to just avoid them. Although there is one part of the Underdark where automatically shooting the explosive mushrooms will kill an NPC and cost you a quest, but you should probably know it when you see it.

[Psyren]

Ah, that new thread smell.... wait, why does it smell like tadpole?

Speaking of threads, I wanted to pick one up from the previous... well, thread:

As a side note, I kind of get the feeling Wyll's a warlock because his dad's view on how you become a hero discouraged him from pursuing paladinhood. Because despite his glory seeking he'd have made a pretty damn good paladin, but instead ended up taking a shortcut he stumbled across

Another thing I forgot to bring up on this topic is that nearly all the Tadpole Crew were canonically higher level prior to getting wormed. Wyll mentions this explicitly in some banter with Gale:

WYLL: Was a time I tussled with hill giants without breaking a sweat. Now, a mere werebear could swat me halfway to Amn.
GALE: Strange things are happening to us. What festers in our minds may well impel our bodies.

EDIT: There was another line too:

Wyll: Before I was infected, I could even call on hellbeasts, and summon festering clouds.

Given Wyll's youth - again, being in his late teens when he became Blade of Frontiers - he was very likely seeking to become a hero quickly. (Given what I know of his pre-BG3 backstory and how he met Mizora, it's sort of understandable that he would want the fast track.) So I can understand why the longer route of squiring in some traditional temple before eventually swearing a Paladin Oath might have been unappealing.

...

As a second topic, my Durge playthrough is underway, and I'm joyously using mods this time. Here's my current list from BG3 Mod Manager:



In addition to these I also added in Overexplained Interactions (the one that previews the DCs and approval changes from dialogue - this one also reveals which ones can break Paladin Oaths or start/end romances), as well as No Party Limit, with which I'm about to roll with the entire squad up to the goblin camp.

[Keltest]

I haven't actually thought to look at this before, but does anyone know if, when you earn XP, you get a flat amount that is split among your party, or does every character just get 20 or however much a dead goblin is worth?

[Psyren]

I haven't actually thought to look at this before, but does anyone know if, when you earn XP, you get a flat amount that is split among your party, or does every character just get 20 or however much a dead goblin is worth?

I'm pretty sure it's the latter (every character gets a fixed amount from kills and milestones.) At the very least, running around with 7 party members doesn't seem to be slowing my progression any, or resulting in weird XP totals.

[Anonymouswizard]

All XP is split equally amongst all party members, recruited or not, unless you instal a mod that changes this. Except for Shadowheart, she seems to lag slightly behind the rest of the party.


I'm thinking of sending Wyll into either Ranger or Rogue for a level to nab Sleight of Hand proficiency. Not until level 6, but the lack of it is very slightly annoying.

[Psyren]

Even without mods, I never had anyone lag behind. Everyone leveled up at the same time, including the folks left behind in camp. I was on story difficulty for my first playthrough though, so maybe that had something to do with it?

I'm thinking of sending Wyll into either Ranger or Rogue for a level to nab Sleight of Hand proficiency. Not until level 6, but the lack of it is very slightly annoying.

Having to deal with so few proficiencies, and unchangeable to boot, was indeed annoying. Two of the ones on my list dealt with that little issue.

[Zevox]

I have had characters level up out of sync, but only very slightly. My best guess as to why is that I think the xp you get when you gain Inspiration only goes to the character who gained Inspiration, but I'm not completely sure if that's true or not, never had a good opportunity to test it.

Continuing my second play through, I have to say, I'm surprised I'm not feeling much difference in difficulty between Balanced on my first run and Tactician on my second. Maybe I had slightly lower odds to hit enemies in the initial areas, where you're level 1-2, but everything's felt pretty much the same since then. Oh, aside from some Intellect Devourers at the crash site who seem to have gained a ranged psychic attack at that I'm pretty sure they didn't have on Balanced. That's the only thing that's stood out though.

[Jophiel]

Yeah, I've had characters level out of sync but something as minor as discovering a new location for +80 xp will close the gap. Character specific Inspiration would help explain it.

I'm just setting foot into Act III this run and had intended on taking Halsin around to see what he does/says but I'm struggling to find a place for him. Part of it is that I have a bunch of people with story-specific things to do in the city and part of it is just that no one really needs a druid anyway. Plus I have another druid who, again, has actual story stuff in the city. I've already thoroughly neglected Gale this run (who has let me know several times) and haven't had Astarion in my group since probably before the Goblin camp. Shoehorning in another character is just awkward. I could respec him (Ancients Paladin could have merit) but that's just a lot of shuffling gear (Karlach is already Oath of Vengeance this run) when I'm gonna want Karlach along for plot reasons anyway. Ah well, maybe I'll just spin him around for the stuff I know doesn't directly involve companions.

[Bunny Commando]

As a second topic, my Durge playthrough is underway, and I'm joyously using mods this time. Here's my current list from BG3 Mod Manager:

IIRC, Larian fixed summons in the last patch so a mod to prevent NPCs from going mad when there are summons abound should no longer be needed. Most of the list is sorely needed to make BG3 less annoying, IMHO.

I mean, characters even jokes about needing a Bag of Holding and I genuinely thought for most of the game I would eventually found one before discovering the dark truth (should update the Portal meme about the cake with a BoH).

[Eldan]

I have had characters level up out of sync, but only very slightly. My best guess as to why is that I think the xp you get when you gain Inspiration only goes to the character who gained Inspiration, but I'm not completely sure if that's true or not, never had a good opportunity to test it.

That seems to be it, yes. I just had La'zael level up to level 5 one encounter before everyone else, because she got 50 inspiration XP.

[BRC]

Lore Question

Spoiler: Ketheric Thorme

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So, Ketheric Thorme was a Selunite nobleman.

At some point in his life, the following events happen

His daughter Isobel (One of four children considering the Doctor, the Toll Collector, and the Brewmaster, but apparently the one he loves the most) Dies.

He turns to the Worship of Shar and becomes the leader of the Dark Justicars, building Grymforge and the Gauntlet of Shar.

He kidnaps his daughter's Demigod Wife and binds her in the shadowfell as "The Nightsong", stealing her immortality.

He gets killed by a force of Harpers and Druids, laying the shadow-curse on the land, and then vanishes for a century.

He returns.

He abandons Shar for Myrkul, becoming Myrkul's chosen, and starting the Cult of the Absolute.

Myrkul lets him resurrect Isobel, who runs off screaming.


Talking to Isobel, it seems like she died BEFORE he turned to worshiping Shar, and was resurrected fairly recently. The Nightsong implies she was trapped for around a century. Which means he would have been immortal back during the initial war.

So is the timeline

Isobel Dies
He turns to Shar
Builds the Fortresses/becomes leader of the Dark Justicars
Captures the Nightsong
Gets "Killed", but actually just lays low for a century or so.
Betrays Shar for Myrkul
Resurrects Isobel?

[Psyren]

I never noticed out-of-sync leveling before but I'll acquiesce that it's a thing. It didn't register to me that the Inspiration XP was character-specific.

I'm thinking of sending Wyll into either Ranger or Rogue for a level to nab Sleight of Hand proficiency. Not until level 6, but the lack of it is very slightly annoying.

Part of me still finds it weird that tool proficiencies aren't a thing in BG3. Then again, they're not a thing on DnDBeyond either, so...

IIRC, Larian fixed summons in the last patch so a mod to prevent NPCs from going mad when there are summons abound should no longer be needed.

I'll try disabling it once I have Halsin so I can do some empirical testing.

Most of the list is sorely needed to make BG3 less annoying, IMHO.

Right? The Dodge Action alone nearly made me break my "no mods on the first playthrough" rule by itself.

[Eldan]

Dodge action?

[Keltest]

In 5e, you can take the "dodge" action, which as the name suggests makes it harder for enemies to hit you. Its used either when you REALLY don't want to get hit or, and this is more frequent in my experience, when you don't have anything else you can spend your action on this turn.

[Anonymouswizard]

Part of me still finds it weird that tool proficiencies aren't a thing in BG3. Then again, they're not a thing on DnDBeyond either, so...

They are, but only for Musical instruments. It would have been cool to be able to pick Lanceboard, playing card, or culinary proficiency and have that effect dialogue, even if practically everybody would go for Thieves Tools.

Dodge action?

I think Monks can dodge for a Qi point? Enemies get disad on attack rolls or the like.

[Jophiel]

Lore Question

Spoiler: Ketheric Thorme

Show

So is the timeline

Isobel Dies
He turns to Shar
Builds the Fortresses/becomes leader of the Dark Justicars
Captures the Nightsong
Gets "Killed", but actually just lays low for a century or so.
Betrays Shar for Myrkul
Resurrects Isobel?

Spoiler: Act II Thorm Lore

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I think this is broadly correct. I went through the end of Act II (again) last night and talked to Isobel, etc. As you said, Thorm was a Selunite, gets jealous of Aylin when she comes to town and Isobel falls in love with her, following Isobel's death (not sure if they ever say how) he turns to Shar. He and Balthazar trick Aylin into being trapped, Shadow curse, kicks around for a century doing crosswords, Myrkul offers to force-rez Isobel in exchange for Thorm's service, Thorm agrees, Thorm realizes "Whoops, left my source of immortality in my last deity's closet" and sends Balthazar off to retrieve her. When you arrive, Balthazar is sort of just kicking around because he's in no hurry to test Shar and because he seems like the kind of employee who makes a big show of being part of the company but also spends four hours a day on Facebook doing a side-hustle.

I *assume* Thorm tricked Aylin before he openly became capital-E-Evil unless Aylin is just a terrible judge of character and lets obviously evil dudes tell her where to go to rescue puppies or whatever story they told her. Moonrise Tower existed from the Selunite days (hence the name) and had the functioning town around it until the Shadow Curse.

I always assumed, outside of game, that Isobel died under circumstances that would make her spirit refuse to return which is why previous attempts to raise her failed (the spirit knows it's being called back and the alignment of the caster and can refuse to return). But I don't think the game ever says and Isobel just says she was alive until she wasn't and then she was again. Her resurrection by Myrkul, Lord of Necromancy, has left her feeling off and with a persistent grave-lung cough so it feels like she wasn't rez'd in the traditional sense.

[BRC]

Spoiler: Act II Thorm Lore

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I think this is broadly correct. I went through the end of Act II (again) last night and talked to Isobel, etc. As you said, Thorm was a Selunite, gets jealous of Aylin when she comes to town and Isobel falls in love with her, following Isobel's death (not sure if they ever say how) he turns to Shar. He and Balthazar trick Aylin into being trapped, Shadow curse, kicks around for a century doing crosswords, Myrkul offers to force-rez Isobel in exchange for Thorm's service, Thorm agrees, Thorm realizes "Whoops, left my source of immortality in my last deity's closet" and sends Balthazar off to retrieve her.

I *assume* Thorm tricked Aylin before he openly became capital-E-Evil unless Aylin is just a terrible judge of character and lets obviously evil dudes tell her where to go to rescue puppies or whatever story they told her. Moonrise Tower existed from the Selunite days (hence the name) and had the functioning town around it until the Shadow Curse.

I always assumed, outside of game, that Isobel died under circumstances that would make her spirit refuse to return which is why previous attempts to raise her failed (the spirit knows it's being called back and the alignment of the caster and can refuse to return). But I don't think the game ever says and Isobel just says she was alive until she wasn't and then she was again. Her resurrection by Myrkul, Lord of Necromancy, has left her feeling off and with a persistent grave-lung cough so it feels like she wasn't rez'd in the traditional sense.

Spoiler

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Considering Aylin is, you know, The Daughter Of Selune, I find it odd that she couldn't get a Selunite cleric to resurrect Isobel.

Like, my current assumption is just that Raise Dead doesn't exist in this version of the world, and Isobel died and was dead outside the range of a Revivify before her body was found, so it took Divine Intervention to save her, and Selune wasn't willing to do that even for her daughter's love.


That or we just forget about Ressurection magic altogether when convenient.

[Jophiel]

Spoiler

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Considering Aylin is, you know, The Daughter Of Selune, I find it odd that she couldn't get a Selunite cleric to resurrect Isobel.

Like, my current assumption is just that Raise Dead doesn't exist in this version of the world, and Isobel died and was dead outside the range of a Revivify before her body was found, so it took Divine Intervention to save her, and Selune wasn't willing to do that even for her daughter's love.

Spoiler

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Thorm says that he tried several times to resurrect her but no one could succeed at it before Myrkul came along. I think that was dialogue from my last, Evil, run where I chatted with Thorm more than this last time where I mostly just stabbed him.

So the magic, in theory, exists but it wasn't effective in this case.

[Bunny Commando]

Spoiler: Headcanon about Isobel

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I suspect Myrkul was involved in the death of Isobel, hence why resurrection magic did not work on her and only Myrkul was able to bring her back.

[Psyren]

Dodge action?

It's a core action in D&D 5e, and a particularly useful one if you have nothing better to do on your turn or you're trying to approach enemies safely - all attacks against you have disadvantage and you have advantage on reflex saves. For whatever reason, Larian left it out of BG3, and modders put it back in.

It's especially funny because the code for it is there, baked into the Monk's Patient Defense bonus action, so it's not like it wouldn't have been technically feasible to do (and clearly it was, given the mod.)

So is the timeline

Spoiler

Show

Isobel Dies
He turns to Shar
Builds the Fortresses/becomes leader of the Dark Justicars
Captures the Nightsong
Gets "Killed", but actually just lays low for a century or so.
Betrays Shar for Myrkul
Resurrects Isobel?

This looks right to me, although I think he originally built moonrise for Selune?

And yes, he says that only Myrkul could give him what he wanted, i.e. his daughter.

[BRC]

This looks right to me, although I think he originally built moonrise for Selune?

And yes, he says that only Myrkul could give him what he wanted, i.e. his daughter.

I was referring to the underground fortresses. Grimforge and The Gauntlet are both, I believe, attributed to him.

[Jophiel]

I was referring to the underground fortresses. Grimforge and The Gauntlet are both, I believe, attributed to him.

Spoiler: Very Minor Act III Spoiler

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Dude had a busy 100 years

That's not to say you're wrong -- Shadowheart attributes the Sharran temple in the city to its current owner and, again, it's pretty large AND has that quaint half-ruined look that makes you wonder if it was just designed that way or if it aged really hard.

[Cikomyr2]

So i want to ask so many questions that bugged me about the Forgotten Realm lore and other related DnD lore. Its tangentially related to this game (obviously), but its not necessarily ***about*** the game or the story in it. You guys mind if i open a Forgotten Realms+ Lore Discussion thread in this forum or in the media forum?

[Anonymouswizard]

I seem to be getting a bug that when I exit the temple of Selune and start a fight in the first round all of my characters get their turns then for three rounds someone will just have their turn skipped despite not being under a crowd control effect. Couple with the fact that the goblins have a tendency to land at least one crit a round and the fight just becomes straight up unwinnable. If I actually got my turns, or if it was a spell I could disrupt, then the fight would be gruelling but doable, as it is I'm just straight up outdamaged.

[Psyren]

So i want to ask so many questions that bugged me about the Forgotten Realm lore and other related DnD lore. Its tangentially related to this game (obviously), but its not necessarily ***about*** the game or the story in it. You guys mind if i open a Forgotten Realms+ Lore Discussion thread in this forum or in the media forum?

Roland usually says you should put your thread wherever you think it fits best and the mods can always move it if needed. This subforum, the media subforum or the 5e subforum could all be argued to fit.

With that said, I don't see a problem with just asking your questions in this thread either. Up to you

I seem to be getting a bug that when I exit the temple of Selune and start a fight in the first round all of my characters get their turns then for three rounds someone will just have their turn skipped despite not being under a crowd control effect. Couple with the fact that the goblins have a tendency to land at least one crit a round and the fight just becomes straight up unwinnable. If I actually got my turns, or if it was a spell I could disrupt, then the fight would be gruelling but doable, as it is I'm just straight up outdamaged.

There's a couple of different exits to the camp/temple so I would suggest trying another one to see if that helps.

[Cikomyr2]

Roland usually says you should put your thread wherever you think it fits best and the mods can always move it if needed. This subforum, the media subforum or the 5e subforum could all be argued to fit.

With that said, I don't see a problem with just asking your questions in this thread either. Up to you

All right. Let me do a slight thread derail then, this is to discuss the Lore.

I was wondering about the Githyanki "Empire". There's surprisingly little information about said empire, its reach and brutality. For something that was the topic of the splinter between the Githyankis and the Githzerai, the lore seem to heavily gloss over it.

For all ive seen, the Githyanki "empire" is basically only the one huge city in the Astral Plane and indeterminate number of creches around the multiverse - creches needed to the perpetuation of their race.

And even with these creches, the Githyanki seem to act extremely closed and xenophobic. Focusing on birthing eggs, training the youths and growing food - with little interaction with nearby outsiders except if they prove threatening, are involved with Mind Flayers, or there's an order from the Queen's Hierarchy to involve themselves with the rest of the world (like searching for a weapon that was stolen).

Like.. are there actually whole worlds, or cities, that were conquered by the Githyanki "Empire"? Or are the Githyanki just acting like aloof aliens who take what they want because they feel entitled to it because of their innate superiority complex?

The only outpost they seem to have are military meant to achieve a specific objective (hunting Illithids, executing a mission) or acting as creches.

So, is the Githyanki Empire actually an empire or merely an interventionist power that dont care about local jurisdictions?

Finally, was this matter of fact a consequence of the Vlaakith's hold over the Empire, and the Gith/Orpheus rulership period was more imperialist?

Just wondering.

[Psyren]

I can't speak as much to the Orpheus stuff or his views; if his slice of Gith lore existed prior to this game, it would have been tucked away somewhere I didn't read. (One of our resident 1e->3e loremasters like afroakuma might be able to source it.)

But concerning Vlaakith - the main thing to understand about her is she views the Githyanki race above all else as two things - a food source to perpetuate her own singular existence/power, as well as a blunt instrument she can use to keep the illithids' and their Grand Design in check (and eventually obliterate.) But the latter objective is not done out of any kind of benevolence, nor merely to deny the mindflayers a foothold across the universe; removing the Gith's greatest enemy will allow Vlaakith and her chosen to essentially supplant them as cosmos-spanning raiders and slavers, pillaging or even enslaving the multiple worlds they encounter for resources and chattel.

There are several unknowns in Vlaakith's story, such as: what exactly happened to Mother Gith that kept her from returning; what benefit(s) Tiamat gets out of lending the Githyanki knights her children; whether Vlaakith routinely devouring her most powerful chosen is a necessity for her or just a product of her greed and paranoia; and what her ultimate plans for a post-Illithid Material might be.

Presumably Orpheus has at least an inkling as to the first question, and his hatred of Vlaakith stems from that (as well as a desire to free his people from their delusional devotion to her) - but for obvious reasons the game doesn't spend a lot of time on his longer-term motivations and mindset.

[Anonymouswizard]

There's a couple of different exits to the camp/temple so I would suggest trying another one to see if that helps.

Probably, but I eventually managed to brute force my way out anyway. It turns out I was missing notifications about Command spells being in effect for some reason.

Also I really wish they paced out the Guardian visits more early on, I just got two in a row. Yes mistress, I know you want me to use the special Illithid powers, but the game implies that consumes my brain and I've already lost the recipe that requires thirteen bulbs of garlic and nothing else.

As a side note, I kind of wish the Halfling models were a bit plumper. Yes they're the fattest and (proportionately) bustiest of the playable races, but I don't quite feel like a proper hobbit (which isn't helped by the game implying I should equip boots). Don't get me wrong, they're actually one of my favourite races (hobbitses, demonspawn, and treehugger elves), and far better than most 5e Halfling depictions, but I feel like they could go further. Them being quite broad, but not to the extent of dwarves, makes them look short without having a head the size of their torso. I can imagine a couple dozen BG3 Halflings defending their village from a goblin raid.

[Zevox]

All right. Let me do a slight thread derail then, this is to discuss the Lore.

I was wondering about the Githyanki "Empire". There's surprisingly little information about said empire, its reach and brutality. For something that was the topic of the splinter between the Githyankis and the Githzerai, the lore seem to heavily gloss over it.

For all ive seen, the Githyanki "empire" is basically only the one huge city in the Astral Plane and indeterminate number of creches around the multiverse - creches needed to the perpetuation of their race.

And even with these creches, the Githyanki seem to act extremely closed and xenophobic. Focusing on birthing eggs, training the youths and growing food - with little interaction with nearby outsiders except if they prove threatening, are involved with Mind Flayers, or there's an order from the Queen's Hierarchy to involve themselves with the rest of the world (like searching for a weapon that was stolen).

Like.. are there actually whole worlds, or cities, that were conquered by the Githyanki "Empire"? Or are the Githyanki just acting like aloof aliens who take what they want because they feel entitled to it because of their innate superiority complex?

The only outpost they seem to have are military meant to achieve a specific objective (hunting Illithids, executing a mission) or acting as creches.

So, is the Githyanki Empire actually an empire or merely an interventionist power that dont care about local jurisdictions?

Finally, was this matter of fact a consequence of the Vlaakith's hold over the Empire, and the Gith/Orpheus rulership period was more imperialist?

Just wondering.

I believe they're supposed to control more of the Astral than just the one named city where Vlaakith resides, but I'm not certain. The Githyanki have always been a fairly minor part of D&D lore, and I don't know that we have a ton of details about them besides what you see in the game already. I'm pretty certain they don't have much Realms-specific lore, they're a general D&D thing that just also happens to exist in the Realms.

In general though, any territory they control would likely be in the Astral Plane. Outside of the Astral they do only three things: fight Mind Flayers and Githzerai, stage raids to steal stuff (they're basically interplanar bandits), and establish Creches for hatching and raising their young.

Also, as far as we know, Orpheus never ruled the Gith. Vlaakith claimed power when Gith went missing, and Orpheus lost whatever bid he made to stop her. Though I also don't think Gith herself is supposed to be that much better than Vlaakith, either - she was the one whose warlike ways Zerthimon objected to, leading to the split between Githyanki and Githzerai, not Vlaakith. Vlaakith just re-centered Githyanki society around serving her above all else, it was already otherwise pretty much as it currently is before that.

[Jophiel]

As a side note, I kind of wish the Halfling models were a bit plumper. Yes they're the fattest and (proportionately) bustiest of the playable races, but I don't quite feel like a proper hobbit (which isn't helped by the game implying I should equip boots).

5e doesn't mention halfling barefootedness. Maybe it changed before that, I'm not a halflingologist, but 5e has them in shoes. As an avowed traditionalist, I keep mine barefoot while in camp but I'm not committed enough to the bit to pass up on my Misty Step/Anti-Ensnare boots.