Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough

[Psyren]

Yeah, that's how I took it. A lot of the things going on feel a lot like the DM writing a serious story, the players absolutely goofing off while playing and the DM shrugging and running with it.

"How about we grab an ice pick and just pull the tadpole out?" is absolutely something I can hear players say.

I agree that this works from a D&D wackiness perspective, but as I mentioned, I truly believe it's possible to take Volo's offer seriously in-universe without metagaming, or being a clown, fool, or lunatic too.

I'm playing my Good Durge as highly desperate, particularly in the wake of the inexplicable camp murder in Act 1. He trusts his friends more than anyone, most of whom believe his tadpole is uniquely to blame, and wants to do everything in his power to avoid hurting them or any other innocents. He's thus pursued every single hook to remove the tadpole that he came across in Act 1 and found them all lacking:

Spoiler: Every Act 1 Tadpole Removal Opportunity

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Raphael: I actually pursued his offer - or at least to hear out the terms before committing - but no matter which dialogue option you select, he refuses to help you in Act 1 anyway. By the time he shows up again, I'll know that my Urges aren't connected to the tadpole, and that it actually might be helping me suppress them, and can therefore tell him to get stuffed without any kind of metagaming.

Nettie: Her only cure is death, aka Plan D. I took the wyvern poison with me as a last resort, but my Urge gleefully encouraged me to spike the goblins' punch with it instead.

Halsin: Proved unable to help, but gave me the Act 2 Moonrise hook.

Priestess Gut: Discovering that she herself was tadpoled, I couldn't trust her to be genuine about wanting to remove mine. She was also on both Halsin and Zevlor's hit lists in order to save the grove and all the innocents dwelling there - three lives for dozens more, including among the goblins themselves.

Volo: See below

Auntie Ethel: I went to her hut fully expecting to take her up on her offer, but met Mayrina's brothers first (I knocked them out rather than killing them - the game acknowledges this!), and the similarly Good Wyll and Karlach insist on having me tell her about them right away, which makes Ethel abandon all pretense, reveal her true form, and attack us. Even if I hadn't warned Mayrina, Ethel wouldn't have helped me anyway, because I already had Volo's eye by this point, not knowing that my eye would have been Ethel's price in the first place.

Githyanki Creche: This is his best and final remaining option, but he will defer to Lae'zel getting purified first as they are her people, and then save her from the zaith'isk at the last minute. It is here he'll definitively conclude that (a) the tadpole can't be removed without killing us, and (b) his Urges aren't tied to it anyway.

Underdark Options: Thanks to Halsin's tip, we have no reason to consider going down there until we're on our way to Moonrise, by which point I'll have already gone under the ice pick for Volo.

With every other alternative in the Act having failed, Volo's Lasik is thus seemingly the only option worthy of consideration, no matter how dangerous/foolhardy it may otherwise seem.

By the time Act 2 rolls around, he'll have learned the truth about the Urge and the tadpole, or at least enough of it that he'll be okay leaving the tadpole alone for the time being.

Yeah, I've never been into it either and I've been around long enough to be there for the start of Spelljammer. I just prefer my mindflayers as weird dungeon basement monsters and never really cared much or gave much though to Gith* at all aside from "Thing on the cover of my 1e Fiend Folio". I just never found anything about the setting to be compelling and was turned off by the "lol random" elements.

It says something that I did think the opening cinematic were nifty, but then the ships just teleported about rather than sailing the High Astral Seas of Outer Space.

I mean, of course the nautiloids weren't sailing the Astral Sea - everywhere they teleported to in the intro was still within the bounds of Realmspace, so there was no need for them to head out there.

...

I totally agree that spelljammer stuff shouldn't be part of every D&D campaign - but if they were going to put this stuff in any Baldur's Gate, this was definitely the one to do it in.

Besides - if the OGL stuff taught us one thing, it's that the mechanics of 5e are not locked down enough to allow WotC to demand particularly favorable licensing terms for their use - especially now that they ended up having to release them to Creative Commons this year, removing any possible gray area about using those mechanics in a video game that might have existed previously. Whatever even mildly-shaky ground things like Solasta or Knights of the Chalice or Kingmaker/WotR had been operating on has been titanium reinforced; if WotC wants to get developers to the table with a lucrative licensing deal, their best bet now is to lean into the parts of their IP they exclusively control. That means mindflayers, beholders, spelljammers, named characters/deities/locations etc.

[Anonymouswizard]

Getting back into Act 2, and it's nice that one of the Harpers' first reaction is 'thank **** a PALADIN showed up'. It's also where the first major 'we didn't really plan for Small characters' moment turns up, with a goblet clipping through the table. Which means I'm also back into the 'wait until Karlach actually initiates her second romance scene' mode.

...I might double back to the Underdark, the Mountain Pass is really short.

[Errorname]

Warforged are amazing, and IIRC were added to the Realms at some point so I'm hoping we get them as a DLC race at some point*. I'm also all for spaceships in fantasy, who doesn't like Star Wars, although I'm not a personal fan of nautiloids that's just a preference issue.

The problem with Warforged as a DLC race is that I imagine it would be quite a lot of work to implement them. They'd need entirely new assets and probably entirely new animations to account for how the robot would behave. It's not like something like a Goliath or an Aasimar where you can produce a passable result with the existing character creator, or something like a Hobgoblin where they'd have existing assets to build on. It'd be the same amount if not more work than what went into the Dragonborn.

That said I'd love to see them, although with what I've heard about Larian's development ethos it feels unlikely they'll make any post-launch races. If you wanted to have the same level of reactivity as the base races you'd need to bring back a lot of voice actors.

[Psyren]

I mean, Warforged and Spelljammer are two very different branches on the science fantasy tree; one doesn't necessarily instantiate the other, especially in FR.

[Zevox]

I mean, Warforged and Spelljammer are two very different branches on the science fantasy tree; one doesn't necessarily instantiate the other, especially in FR.

Also, as previously mentioned, Warforged are very much not canon to the Realms, or anywhere other than Eberron, so there's no way that's happening.

[Anonymouswizard]

Also, as previously mentioned, Warforged are very much not canon to the Realms, or anywhere other than Eberron, so there's no way that's happening.

Oh, they're definitely a thing in Nentir Vale and like every setting I make. Plus they're cool and they s game has already changed canon on one topic.

[Zevox]

Oh, they're definitely a thing in Nentir Vale and like every setting I make. Plus they're cool and they s game has already changed canon on one topic.

Haven't heard of Nentir Vale before, but looking it up, that's another setting entirely, nothing to do with the Realms. And obviously anything can be in anyone's homebrew settings but that's irrelevent here.

Also, no they're not and no it hasn't.

[BRC]

I could see a "Sentient Construct" DLC companion (probably not a Warforged specifically, but we encounter a decent number of constructs with various degrees of sentience), but I doubt it would work as a Player character. The presence of the tadpole and threat of Ceremorphosis is central to the game's story.

[Bunny Commando]

I don't see a Warforged DLC happening, Larian does not have a history of releasing DLCs and if they have any plans of doing so for BG3, my bet is that they'll aim low and release something that won't require much effort on their part.

But I would love to see a BG4 (I would be surprised Larian and WotC are not already talking about it) with more variety in terms of races (Warforged included, canon be damned) and more magitech, I loved the Gortash-related quests in BG3.

[Psyren]

I agree that Warforged as a race/culture are definitely not present in the Realms, but that doesn't mean some analogous construct race with Warforged statistics couldn't be. IIRC, the Raumathar Empire/Raumvirans mass-produced construct soldiers for war during their peak, so some of those gaining sapience and persisting to the present day doesn't seem implausible. Similarly, I could see Lantan producing a few Autognomes that obtain independence.

[Cikomyr2]

Yhea, sorry i didnt meant to open the Warforged can of worms.

Also, if there were Warforged in FR, it would make the Steel Watch a much lesser impressive achievement.

I still believe DLCs should about exploring the npcs more with their own pocket adventures.

[Psyren]

The Steel Watch are just

Spoiler

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more complex mass-produced golems that are under Gortash's complete control using the tadpole tech.

Whether some Warforged-equivalent existed in the setting or not, he would have pursued their creation, because Warforged have entirely too much pesky free will for a Banite.

[BRC]

So I have a question Re: The Astral Prism

Spoiler: Spoilers until early Act 3 or so

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So, Vlaakith and wants it because it contains the "Destroy my empire of lies" button, also it was stolen from her and she wants it back.

But it was stolen by The Emperor, who was sent out as a slave to the Absolute to recover it. Did I miss something explaining why the Absolutists wanted it so badly? Like, it's a weapon that can be used against them, as it can be used against any elder brain, but I feel like it's too important to Vlaakith, and it's results (breaking hive-mind control) are too unpredictable for her to ever pull out as a weapon. Do they want it so they can free Orpheus and launch a Githyanki Civil War so the Gith cause them less trouble when they spin up their tamed mind-flayer empire?

[Cikomyr2]

The Steel Watch are just

Spoiler

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more complex mass-produced golems that are under Gortash's complete control using the tadpole tech.

Whether some Warforged-equivalent existed in the setting or not, he would have pursued their creation, because Warforged have entirely too much pesky free will for a Banite.

You dont need to explain the game for me. The details behind the Steel Watch is not known to the public, and if Warforged were a Thing i dont think anyone would be amazed by the Gondian's construction of the Steel Watch.

[Psyren]

You dont need to explain the game for me. The details behind the Steel Watch is not known to the public, and if Warforged were a Thing i dont think anyone would be amazed by the Gondian's construction of the Steel Watch.

I wasn't singling you out; my comments were more general. Gortash would have sought to create his own legion of eternally loyal/brutal enforcers regardless of which races were or weren't playable in the game - because that's the kind of thing any Chosen of Bane in his position would strive to do.

So I have a question Re: The Astral Prism

Spoiler: Spoilers until early Act 3 or so

Show

So, Vlaakith and wants it because it contains the "Destroy my empire of lies" button, also it was stolen from her and she wants it back.

But it was stolen by The Emperor, who was sent out as a slave to the Absolute to recover it. Did I miss something explaining why the Absolutists wanted it so badly? Like, it's a weapon that can be used against them, as it can be used against any elder brain, but I feel like it's too important to Vlaakith, and it's results (breaking hive-mind control) are too unpredictable for her to ever pull out as a weapon. Do they want it so they can free Orpheus and launch a Githyanki Civil War so the Gith cause them less trouble when they spin up their tamed mind-flayer empire?

This is touched on in Act 3 via Shadowheart's quest:

Spoiler: House of Grief

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When you meet Mother Superior Viconia, you learn that she caught wind of the Absolute Cult because it was hoovering up the kind of disaffected people that would normally be ripe for Sharran recruitment. She somehow learned that the artefact was the only thing the cult's leaders feared as being able to disrupt their plans,(there are some tortured Githyanki corpses in the Sharran enclave to show how she did that) hence her sending Shadowheart and a group of other Sharrans to retrieve it - against Shar's wishes, or at the very least without being explicitly ordered to do so.

What I don't recall with clarity is how the Absolutists learned of the existence of the Prism, in order to send their agents

Spoiler: Act 3 start

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(first among them the Emperor) to retrieve it in the first place. The Emperor claimed not to know either.

[BRC]

This is touched on in Act 3 via Shadowheart's quest:

Spoiler: House of Grief

Show

When you meet Mother Superior Viconia, you learn that she caught wind of the Absolute Cult because it was hoovering up the kind of disaffected people that would normally be ripe for Sharran recruitment. She somehow learned that the artefact was the only thing the cult's leaders feared as being able to disrupt their plans,(there are some tortured Githyanki corpses in the Sharran enclave to show how she did that) hence her sending Shadowheart and a group of other Sharrans to retrieve it - against Shar's wishes, or at the very least without being explicitly ordered to do so.

What I don't recall with clarity is how the Absolutists learned of the existence of the Prism, in order to send their agents

Spoiler: Act 3 start

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(first among them the Emperor) to retrieve it in the first place. The Emperor claimed not to know either.

Spoiler

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I'm just wondering about the Absolutist's decision to go for it.


The Prism seems to have a pretty short range, The Emperor doesn't seem to be using it to free random Absolutists beyond your party, even though doing so would be quite useful at disrupting their plans. It seems like it's mostly limited to breaking a handful of would-be True Souls free of the Absolute's control, and even then they'd need to stay in proximity to the Prism.

Meanwhile, even revealing that the thing exists would be a HUGE risk for Vlaakith. I don't see a scenario where using it is worthwhile for her, especially considering the Githyanki's opinion towards those with mind flayer parasites. They're far more likely to just murder them than use Vlaakith's giant weakspot to temporarily free a few of them.

It seems like the chances of it being used against them go UP with sending agents to retrieve it.

I guess it's possible that the same sources that let them find the Crown mentioned "Well, there's ONE artifact that can break the control of an elder brain" and didn't give them many more details. They don't know about Orpheus, or why Vlaakith has it. They may assume that it's an anti-illithid weapon.

[Zevox]

As far as DLC goes, I think the most reasonable option is probably additional subclasses. There's a number of them you could probably do mostly or entirely with existing assets, and even those that would need new assets would surely be a lot less work than most other options, while still having enough appeal that you'd probably get a lot of people wanting to buy them. Plus while there's a fair amount of class-specific dialogue, little of it seems to be subclass-specific, so there shouldn't be much concern there. Seems like almost a no-brainer to me.

Beyond that, additional races would be similarly obvious if it weren't for all the race-specific dialogue, which would be a lot of work - especially since some of the obvious options that are already in the game, like Goblinoids, would pretty clearly demand a fair amount of it. Additional scenarios, either separate from the main game or as new side-quests within it, would be cool, but almost certainly would be the most work for them, so I don't know if we should expect anything like that.

I agree that Warforged as a race/culture are definitely not present in the Realms, but that doesn't mean some analogous construct race with Warforged statistics couldn't be. IIRC, the Raumathar Empire/Raumvirans mass-produced construct soldiers for war during their peak, so some of those gaining sapience and persisting to the present day doesn't seem implausible. Similarly, I could see Lantan producing a few Autognomes that obtain independence.

The Raumuvirans used normal Golems from what I'm reading, there's no reason they'd be anything but that. And that was a millennia and a half ago in the timeline, so it'd be quite a stretch to "reveal" now that they had also created sentient ones.

Regardless though, I hope and pray that nothing like that ever happens. That'd be like 4e all over again to me.

[Psyren]

The Raumuvirans used normal Golems from what I'm reading, there's no reason they'd be anything but that. And that was a millennia and a half ago in the timeline, so it'd be quite a stretch to "reveal" now that they had also created sentient ones.

Warforged were originally intended to be mindless, or at least single-minded, shock troops too. But with artifact-level magic, what you intend isn't always what you end up with.

Spoiler

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I'm just wondering about the Absolutist's decision to go for it.


The Prism seems to have a pretty short range, The Emperor doesn't seem to be using it to free random Absolutists beyond your party, even though doing so would be quite useful at disrupting their plans. It seems like it's mostly limited to breaking a handful of would-be True Souls free of the Absolute's control, and even then they'd need to stay in proximity to the Prism.

Meanwhile, even revealing that the thing exists would be a HUGE risk for Vlaakith. I don't see a scenario where using it is worthwhile for her, especially considering the Githyanki's opinion towards those with mind flayer parasites. They're far more likely to just murder them than use Vlaakith's giant weakspot to temporarily free a few of them.

It seems like the chances of it being used against them go UP with sending agents to retrieve it.

I guess it's possible that the same sources that let them find the Crown mentioned "Well, there's ONE artifact that can break the control of an elder brain" and didn't give them many more details. They don't know about Orpheus, or why Vlaakith has it. They may assume that it's an anti-illithid weapon.

That source was most likely Gortash himself... but there's an awful lot I don't know:

Spoiler

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After his parents sold him to a warlock (Korilla??) to pay their debts, he ended up in Raphael's House of Hope (how?) for an unclear amount of time. He's hyperintelligent, so it's likely that this is where he learned of the Crown, the Prism, and the Hammer and hatched his plan. He stole the former from Mephisto's vault (how?), escaped from Avernus (how?), met/befriended Bhaal's Chosen the Dark Urge and Myrkul's Chosen Ketheric (how?), learned of/enslaved the Elder Brain beneath Moonrise (from Ketheric?), kidnapped the Emperor (how?), brought him to Moonrise, and then set him on the trail of the Prism as the only counter to their plans. The Prism was somehow stored somewhere Vlaakith wasn't able to keep an eye on it (how?) and at some point, a good chunk of this was discovered by Viconia deVir and the church of Shar (how?)

I'm going to keep a sharper eye out for the answers the game gives to these questions in my new playthrough, but in my haste to reach the ending the last time around I glossed over quite a bit.

[Zevox]

Warforged were originally intended to be mindless, or at least single-minded, shock troops too. But with artifact-level magic, what you intend isn't always what you end up with.

"Artifact-level magic?" Where are you getting that artifacts were involved with Raumathar's golems? As far as I can tell there's very few details about them, but what there is does not suggest there was any artifact involved, or that they were anything but a large force of ordinary Stone Golems.

[LibraryOgre]

If you want Warforged in the Realms, 3.x era Thayans were doing wooden golems for sale. 6' tall, about 400# of oak. Wouldn't be quite the same as Eberron warforged, but it would be a way to work them in, if you liked.

[Psyren]

"Artifact-level magic?" Where are you getting that artifacts were involved with Raumathar's golems?

You're taking what I'm saying too literally What I mean is that they're one of those lost empires that could do stuff with magic that can't be done in present-day Faerun, so intelligent constructs being on that list isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

[Errorname]

As far as DLC goes, I think the most reasonable option is probably additional subclasses. There's a number of them you could probably do mostly or entirely with existing assets, and even those that would need new assets would surely be a lot less work than most other options, while still having enough appeal that you'd probably get a lot of people wanting to buy them. Plus while there's a fair amount of class-specific dialogue, little of it seems to be subclass-specific, so there shouldn't be much concern there. Seems like almost a no-brainer to me.

Beyond that, additional races would be similarly obvious if it weren't for all the race-specific dialogue, which would be a lot of work - especially since some of the obvious options that are already in the game, like Goblinoids, would pretty clearly demand a fair amount of it. Additional scenarios, either separate from the main game or as new side-quests within it, would be cool, but almost certainly would be the most work for them, so I don't know if we should expect anything like that.

Honestly the most likely outcome I can see would be a standalone expansion that adds new races in the context of an entirely new campaign. That way you don't have to go in and add a bunch of new reactive dialogue to the already complete game.

[Zevox]

You're taking what I'm saying too literally What I mean is that they're one of those lost empires that could do stuff with magic that can't be done in present-day Faerun, so intelligent constructs being on that list isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

I'm taking it that way because you're suggesting it as a way to add something that I hate into my favorite D&D setting, and I'm trying to at least get you to acknowledge that what you're suggesting is nothing but a retcon to justify the ends you're aiming for. At least be up front about that, don't try to pretend it fits with the setting lore as-is.

...but this is getting me too emotional here. Suffice to say this is one subject on which I have strong feelings, which would turn swiftly to rage should anything of this sort ever happen. I have never liked the idea of intelligent constructs in D&D-style fantasy, specifically because the're an obvious expy for robots. I have avoided Eberron in no small part because the Warforged are the setting's poster boys. I like the Forgotten Realms for various reasons, the fact that it includes nothing of the sort among them. I have no objection to them existing in D&D at large for those that do like them, but try to shoehorn them into the setting I do like and I get defensive and angry about it. So I am always going to be strongly opposed to putting anything Warforged-like into the Realms. If you want something like that, make an Eberron game. Or any other setting, for all I care, just not the Realms, please. WotC already ruined the setting for me once, I don't want that to happen again.

Honestly the most likely outcome I can see would be a standalone expansion that adds new races in the context of an entirely new campaign. That way you don't have to go in and add a bunch of new reactive dialogue to the already complete game.

Perhaps, although it feels like a long time since I've seen such a standalone expansion done. Feels like those have gone the way of the dinosaurs as DLC came to prominence.

[Psyren]

I'm taking it that way because you're suggesting it as a way to add something that I hate into my favorite D&D setting, and I'm trying to at least get you to acknowledge that what you're suggesting is nothing but a retcon to justify the ends you're aiming for. At least be up front about that, don't try to pretend it fits with the setting lore as-is.

I'm suggesting it because I genuinely believe it can fit, not to be inflammatory. We don't have to agree.

I don't view "retcon" to be a dirty word either; any IP (system, setting, etc) that continues to get new material decades after it was originally conceived will invariably end up with some.

[Anonymouswizard]

Maybe if the FR had cool things like magic robots it wouldn't be the worst D&D setting I loathe the 'oh we're not actually medieval but you can't get cool stuff' that the Realms have come to represent to me, and it's not like the magic cybereye is any less out of place.

There's also the fact that dungeonpunk is just more popular now than it was two decades ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the FR start magiteching up if the trend continues, although that's certainly not a guarantee.

Also if we're limited to biological races BG3 is horrifically short on catgirls...

[Zevox]

I'm suggesting it because I genuinely believe it can fit, not to be inflammatory. We don't have to agree.

Then you should understand when I argue against your suggestion by turning to the existing lore and showing how it contradicts that claim. Such as that there is no suggestion in the existing lore that there was anything unusual about Raumathar's golems besides being numerous enough to be used as a small army, or that the only magic they're noted as using that's beyond present-day capabilities in Faerûn is the lost Imaskari magic they used to control White Dragons in their final war with Narfell's demonic forces. Additionally, all of that happened over fifteen hundred years ago, and there is an entire society, the Witches of Rashemen, dedicated to preserving Raumathar's lore and history, which make deciding that we just now learn they had also created intelligent constructs somehow as an excuse to introduce a race of them an extreme stretch by any reasonable standard.

So no, it doesn't fit.

Maybe if the FR had cool things like magic robots it wouldn't be the worst D&D setting

It can't be the worst D&D setting as long as Eberron exists.

Also if we're limited to biological races BG3 is horrifically short on catgirls...

I'd be quite happy to see Tabaxi added. Though since there's none in the game currently, they'd probably take a back seat to things that would be easier to add due to the assets already existing, like the Goblinoids.

[Anonymouswizard]

It can't be the worst D&D setting as long as Eberron exists.

Ah, I see, you e got your list upside down. Let me flip that for you.

I'd be quite happy to see Tabaxi added. Though since there's none in the game currently, they'd probably take a back seat to things that would be easier to add due to the assets already existing, like the Goblinoids.

Eh, I suspect if we get race DLC it'll be just as likely to be something not modded in already, if I want to play a goblin or ogre somebody's already set that up. My actual bets for what's first would be Githzerai, Changelings, or full blooded orcs.


But as to retconning the best race into the Realms, well this very much isn't the biggest change they've shoehorned in. Hell they strictly speaking wouldn't have to be retconned in anyway, just adjust their Eberron origin to fit the next time the setting skips forward a century, or when an adventure goes to a part of the planet that's been out of focus.

(To be honest at this point I'm just defending my boys, the tadpole reason is a very strong argument for why it would never happen.)

[Psyren]

Then you should understand when I argue against your suggestion by turning to the existing lore and showing how it contradicts that claim.

I do understand your point of view. My opinion remains unchanged.

Maybe if the FR had cool things like magic robots it wouldn't be the worst D&D setting I loathe the 'oh we're not actually medieval but you can't get cool stuff' that the Realms have come to represent to me, and it's not like the magic cybereye is any less out of place.

There's also the fact that dungeonpunk is just more popular now than it was two decades ago. I wouldn't be surprised if the FR start magiteching up if the trend continues, although that's certainly not a guarantee.

I think the biggest problem with FR is that 90% of the stories and modules, especially those from the tie-in games, are focused around one tiny corner of it (the Sword Coast), the majority of which is as generic fantasy as generic fantasy gets. There is so much more to the setting; one thing I will give BG3 credit for is that they weren't afraid to inject the cosmic side of things even if Spelljammer and Githyanki might be controversial.

Also if we're limited to biological races BG3 is horrifically short on catgirls...

Maybe by the time BG4 rolls around we'll have Ardlings in print

[Cikomyr2]

I mean, another obvious dlc is the Artificer class, with a choice of being a student of Gond of the Ironhand Gnomes.

[Zevox]

Eh, I suspect if we get race DLC it'll be just as likely to be something not modded in already, if I want to play a goblin or ogre somebody's already set that up. My actual bets for what's first would be Githzerai, Changelings, or full blooded orcs.

If they ignore the obvious picks because mods exist, that would be a mistake, I would say. Not only do players like myself who are on console exist, but surely not all people who play the game on PC use such mods, either, and would prefer official versions of it. And those would be by far the easiest ones to do. It would just be throwing away easy money to ignore it, unless they don't do DLC races at all.

(To be honest at this point I'm just defending my boys, the tadpole reason is a very strong argument for why it would never happen.)

There's no need to defend them. I'm not attacking them, I'm arguing they shouldn't be shoehorned into the Forgotten Realms. I just don't wish to see something I like ruined (a second time...) by forcing something I hate into it. Any more than you would wish for Eberron to undergo an event that eliminated the Warforged and all magitech, leaving the setting in a more medieval state, I'd wager, even though such a thing might leave it a setting that would be of more interest to me.

These things are different settings for a reason. Keep them that way.

Maybe by the time BG4 rolls around we'll have Ardlings in print

Even if we do, they'll still be a significantly worse way to do catpeople than the Tabaxi.

I mean, another obvious dlc is the Artificer class, with a choice of being a student of Gond of the Ironhand Gnomes.

I would bet against that. That would involve both adding a lot of class-specific dialogue and a lot more new mechanics than a race or subclass.