Rules Questions

[FreeloadingSausage]

The trap triggers in the room in which it is revealed, as normal. If V and all other players are outside of the trap's Range, then it has no effect.

The Giant posted this a while ago in response to a question about sending V's raven to grab a loot in another room.

I am very, very, super sorry if this has been addressed before now, but 8 pages is a lot to read through.

If V sends his raven to grab a loot in a room with Elan and Belkar present, and Blackwing draws a loot that is a single-target trap, who does the trap target?

I presume it targets Blackwing the Raven, and has no effect, but is there an official ruling somewhere?

EDIT: Also, the FAQ currently states that monsters cannot provide support for more than one monster in the same room, in an effort to cut down on horde size.

The rule as stated is that the monster closest to the top receives the support. In the case of Battle Size it does not matter, but in the case of receiving bonuses to Attack and Defense, do lower monsters inherit the support if the higher monster is killed?

Example: Goblin A gains support from other goblins in the form of +2 Attack and Defense, and is played first. Goblin B also gains support in the same way, but is played second, and therefore does not gain the support from other goblins. Goblins C-Z are played afterwards turning Goblin A into one bad dude. One of the PCs takes out Goblin A. Does Goblin B now gain the support since he's at the top of the stack?

[PePe QuiCoSE]

I presume it targets Blackwing the Raven, and has no effect, but is there an official ruling somewhere?

Not sure, but i'm pretty sure that you can infer from the official saying it works that ways (at least that's what i did).

Does Goblin B now gain the support since he's at the top of the stack?

Yes., AFAIK.

[prj]

in the case of receiving bonuses to Attack and Defense, do lower monsters inherit the support if the higher monster is killed?

Yes, according to the FAQ: "Should the Woodcutter be defeated, all monsters that were supporting the Woodcutter are now free to immediately support the next monster in the stack, the Teenagers."

I believe there's a mistake in the following example in the FAQ, though: "Player 4 plays Demon Roach. Demon Roach supports Demon Roach King, not Orc Summoner, because Demon Roach King is closer to the top of the stack." This wouldn't happen, since Demon Roach King immediately moves to the bottom of the stack when played.

[Kalir]

Durkon's shtick Goblinthwacker... does it let him attack goblins just outside of his normal range with Thor's Hammer?

[prj]

Durkon's shtick Goblinthwacker... does it let him attack goblins just outside of his normal range with Thor's Hammer?

Yes. Goblinthwacker boosts the hammer against goblins, and the hammer's boost effect includes extending its range.

[LeonardQuirm]

Hi! I bought the game a few weeks ago and have played it a fair few times since then (the joys of being a student and in the summer holidays...) A few questions have come up though, so I was wondering if anyone could give me an official ruling or at least an alternative interpretation on them? If anyone's interested, I've put the interpretations of me and my friends in italics after the questions.

Firstly, Haley's shtick "Secret Crush" - what happens if Elan's an NPC? Does it work so long as she's on the floor that Elan as an NPC is (pretty powerful in a 2 player game, where both players tend to be on the same floor)? Or does it only work if Nale's on the same floor? We decided (through roll of the dice) that it didn't work for NPC Elan, making it, TBH, a fairly useless schtick if Elan's not being played.

Also, her "Disarm Traps" - when disarming, you get +4 to your roll; does this also cumulate with other things for evading traps? If so and you get it with both The Stick loot and Good Reflexes schtick, you've got +8 on trying to disarm traps; pretty good odds... We decided that one could work and one couldn't; I can't remember which way round but I think it might have been "Good Reflexes" stacked (since reflexes are good for disarming traps) but The Stick didn't.

V's "Ambiguous Gender" - does this have to happen whenever you're attacked (and have the schtick in play)? Or can you choose to not let it happen, say if you thought you had a reasonable chance of winning? And if it does come into effect, could you still play "Saw it Coming" first if you had it? I'd imagine "Ambiguous Gender" has to be used whenever you're attacked, regardless of desire, and there's no text to say you can flip it when you want; however, since the player's already attacked you you could use "Saw it Coming" first, then play out "Ambiguous Gender".

Elan's "Gratuitous Nudity" - I know that in the FAQ it says when he flips it he has to close his own eyes, but I'd question that personally...the idea is by being naked, no-one (except Haley) wants to look so they close their eyes; why would Elan close his? If it weren't for the Haley exception, I'd agree with Elan closing his eyes as well, but as it is... Also, it says it counts as a boost for his "Hide" shtick. Is that whenever it's in play? Or is it any point in the turn when it's flipped (the monsters close their eyes too)? Or just the first battle? I'd imagine from the way everything else works, it would boost "Hide" so long as it is unflipped...but that seems somewhat counter-intuitive...

That'll do for the moment! I'll probably be back to ask for more later, but any answers to the above would be great. It's a fantastic game though, so long as you've got the time to play it!

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Hey there! As a fellow gamer i'll say what i have been ruling on the subject.

Firstly, Haley's shtick "Secret Crush" - what happens if Elan's an NPC?

In our games we made no distinction about it, she always gets the bonus as long as she is on the same floor as Elan (PC or NPC).

Also, her "Disarm Traps" - when disarming, you get +4 to your roll; does this also cumulate with other things for evading traps?

Hell no! It is already good enough as it is! The logic behind this is that the other shticks give bonus to "evade" traps, not disarm, so they only apply if she fails to disarm and has to evade (with the appropriate -2 for failing to disarm).

V's "Ambiguous Gender" - does this have to happen whenever you're attacked (and have the schtick in play)? Or can you choose to not let it happen, say if you thought you had a reasonable chance of winning? And if it does come into effect, could you still play "Saw it Coming" first if you had it? I'd imagine "Ambiguous Gender" has to be used whenever you're attacked, regardless of desire, and there's no text to say you can flip it when you want; however, since the player's already attacked you you could use "Saw it Coming" first, then play out "Ambiguous Gender".

This never happened to me, but i agree with your interpretation. The idea is that Ambiguous Gender makes the attack fail (thus wasting it's turn) but you still get attacked (allowing the use of a Screw This!).
About having to use it, I'd follow the same guidelines as most other shticks have (specially Roy's 'Fearless Leader' or Durkon's 'Clank clank clank'). If it is not flipped, it is in use. To not use it, it should be flipped. If it is not indicated in the card that you can flip it,then you can't and have to use it when it's played.

Elan's "Gratuitous Nudity" - I know that in the FAQ it says when he flips it he has to close his own eyes, but I'd question that personally...the idea is by being naked, no-one (except Haley) wants to look so they close their eyes; why would Elan close his? If it weren't for the Haley exception, I'd agree with Elan closing his eyes as well, but as it is...

I agree with you here. For me Elan's shticks are more for fun that winning the game, so i don't really care much about the difference there. I mean, it's not big deal towards the game if you play that card differently really. Actually you could argue that when naked, Elan doesn't care which monsters he gets played (even by himself) because he is too high about being invisible!

Also, it says it counts as a boost for his "Hide" shtick. Is that whenever it's in play? Or is it any point in the turn when it's flipped (the monsters close their eyes too)? Or just the first battle? I'd imagine from the way everything else works, it would boost "Hide" so long as it is unflipped...but that seems somewhat counter-intuitive...

Yeah, it boost Hide as long as it's unflipped (in play). If you flip it, Hide loses it's boost (but they can't see which card is played on you). I don't know why you find it counter-intuitive (fluff?), there are other cards that gives bonus not really related. Haley's good reflexes works in the same way (+2 against traps, flip to avoid a wound but lose bonus).

[The Stone]

Is it possible to remove the "Xykon" special ability from Xykon using the "I forgot they could do that" card?

It sounds pretty silly at first but the rules doesn't forbid it, from what i can tell. This came up in the last game we played and after a good laugh we decided that yes, its possible to remove the "xykon" ability, which postpones the destruction of the dungeon by one turn if he is defeated (when IFTCDT is no longer i effect). What's the official ruling?

[prj]

Is it possible to remove the "Xykon" special ability from Xykon using the "I forgot they could do that" card?

I suspect it's not meant to be removable. As you say, it's allowed by a strict reading of the rules, but I think that's probably a mistake in the rules. The Giant or apegamer would have to give the official word, though.

we decided that yes, its possible to remove the "xykon" ability, which postpones the destruction of the dungeon by one turn if he is defeated (when IFTCDT is no longer i effect).

The dungeon doesn't start to collapse anyway until the turn after Xykon is defeated, so there wouldn't be any additional delay. If it is deemed legal, I think the most likely use would be for another player to do it so they can withold assistance, and hopefully get a shot at defeating Xykon themselves.

[The Stone]

The dungeon doesn't start to collapse anyway until the turn after Xykon is defeated, so there wouldn't be any additional delay. If it is deemed legal, I think the most likely use would be for another player to do it so they can withold assistance, and hopefully get a shot at defeating Xykon themselves.

Yes you're right, what i meant to say was that monsters isn't removed etc until the next players turn. This way the current player can continue to battle monsters after deteating xykon.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

Well, in this case i agree that we need the word of the creators. But judging from what you propose i wouldn't allow it in my games for how abusable it can be. Roy and V can get an IFTCDT for that battle using the Sarcastic Quip Loot and could attempt to do this every game.
As an argument i would propose that it can't be affected by Screw This! card because it's a "Special" ability, not a normal one.

[chrisguyhere]

Hi, I just had the Screw This! card "I forgot they could do that" used to negate Xycon's Xycon ability. Our GM looked over the rules and after some laughs decided it wasn't forbidden by the game. But really then the game was broken. Without Xycon's ability the game doesn't end. It's what makes the dungeon collapse. Really it was only used to take the points I'd get from killing him. But looking into it further we decided the game couldn't end. Dan was declared the winner for managing to break the game. We made this account to see if something has been said about this rule.

[MergedLoki]

I have a Ranged attack question because it seems to me the rules aren't too clear on this.
If a player (say V w/a fireball) makes a ranged attack from 2 rooms away on an enemy and V loses the roll. does V take a wound for losing or because it's a ranged attack there's is no bad result for suffering defeat?

[prj]

If a player (say V w/a fireball) makes a ranged attack from 2 rooms away on an enemy and V loses the roll. does V take a wound for losing or because it's a ranged attack there's is no bad result for suffering defeat?

If the defender has sufficent range to reach the attacker, then the attacker gets wounded. (Or, if the defender is another player, it's the defender's shtick's result, which may or may not be a wound.) If the defender doesn't have enough range to reach the attacker, then the attacker is safe. See the rulebook, page 12, under "Ranged Defense".

[Kalir]

Further question about Goblinthwacker. Can you also use it to attack goblins further down in the stack just outside the normal range for Thor's Hammer? For example, if your hammer has a range of 2, and three rooms away, there's a stack with, in order, a Crunchy Taco Golem (Food type) and a Goblin with an Eel Biting It On The Nose (Goblin type), can you hit the goblin with the golem there, or do you have to destroy the golem first in some other fashion?

[prj]

Further question about Goblinthwacker. Can you also use it to attack goblins further down in the stack just outside the normal range for Thor's Hammer?

No mechanism in the game lets you skip the top monster in a stack to battle one underneath it.

The boost effect on Thor's Hammer does include extending its range, so if there's a Goblin at the top of a stack that's three rooms away, and Goblinthwacker would boost your range up to 3, then you can battle that Goblin.

[jscheibel]

This was already asked ....

Originally Posted by Moebius
More questions about Area Effect Shticks...

Can you Defend against multiple monsters with Turn Undead or Poorly-Planned Illusion? The only other AES (so far), Fireball, has N/A for Defense, but those two have a value. Turn Undead is actually better in Defense than Attack.

and answered...
Yes, you can Defend using an Area Effect Shtick, if the shtick has a value for Defense. This would happen if you walk into a room of Monsters, or if you are attacked at Range by a Monster via the "Ambush!" Screw This! card.

....
but my question was, when denfending with an area of effect do you select the highest attacking value in the stack like you would if for defense if you were attacking?

Also I saw this asked and didnt see an answer, but it happened in our first game:

A question came up last night regarding the "Ghost of Dorukan" card in the Xykon's Lair deck in conjunction with Elan's Poorly-Planned Illusion schtick. The wording on the "Ghost of Dorukan" card specifies that the boon is granted to the player who "kills the last monster in the room." In this case, Elan had killed the first monster he faced out of four in the room with a different battle schtick, but then used Poorly-Planned Illusion to move the rest of the monsters to another room.

While it seems to me to make sense that Elan get the boon, the wording on the card would imply otherwise. Should the card say "defeats" instead of "kills"? Does the Ghost stay put until a new battle in the room is triggered and the new "last" monster in the room is actually killed? Or is there some other interpretation I'm missing? Elan DID kill a monster, but at the time he killed it, it wasn't the last one in the room. The last monster in the room wasn't killed, but moved to a different room. Thanks in advance!

we played it like this: he moved with the stack as it felt "right", but regardless would like some clarification please :)

[prj]

when denfending with an area of effect do you select the highest attacking value in the stack like you would if for defense if you were attacking?

I'd say yes. This should probably go in the "rulebook errata" in the FAQ, since the wording of the rules only explicitly covers the case where the player is attaacking.

[King.Smurf]

------------------------------

If there's a battle going on, and for some reason you don't defeat it and it's still in the room (hide shtick fx), can I then just flee the monster when it's my turn next? Or do someone else need to defeat the monster beofre I can go away

[PePe QuiCoSE]

------------------------------

If there's a battle going on, and for some reason you don't defeat it and it's still in the room (hide shtick fx), can I then just flee the monster when it's my turn next? Or do someone else need to defeat the monster beofre I can go away

Yes, you can. And you can move through rooms with monsters. It's in the rules, you could check it there. If you stay in the room, you have to Attack (not defend) the monster.

[Frogwarrior]

The Broken Weapon Screw This: If I use Broken Weapon to, say, break Roy's Greenhilt Sword, and he trades in monsters for a schtick and chooses another copy of Greenhilt Sword, does it come into play flipped or not?

Creative Motivation: If I use Creative Motivation to ask Elan for help, do I get the bonus from Bard Song?

I'm guessing Roy's Fearless Leader ability can only give the positive effect (heal 1 Wound or unflip 1 Schtick) on a per-battle basis, not a per-Loot-card basis. Is that right?

If you're attacked while resting or missing a turn, can you use Battle Schticks to defend yourself and potentially inflict damage?
Relatedly, if you're attacked and dealt damage you still get the benefits of resting, right?

[PePe QuiCoSE]

The Broken Weapon Screw This: If I use Broken Weapon to, say, break Roy's Greenhilt Sword, and he trades in monsters for a schtick and chooses another copy of Greenhilt Sword, does it come into play flipped or not?

As the card is written, you can draw and play new copies of the same shtick but you can't unflip them until you reach the entrance; but here it could collide RAW with RAI. So, as long as there is no clarification i'd say play it as RAW.

Creative Motivation: If I use Creative Motivation to ask Elan for help, do I get the bonus from Bard Song?

No, the card says the player gives you a +2/+2, not an assist.

I'm guessing Roy's Fearless Leader ability can only give the positive effect (heal 1 Wound or unflip 1 Schtick) on a per-battle basis, not a per-Loot-card basis. Is that right?

Yes, only once since 1 assist can include several loot cards.

If you're attacked while resting or missing a turn, can you use Battle Schticks to defend yourself and potentially inflict damage?
Relatedly, if you're attacked and dealt damage you still get the benefits of resting, right?

Yes and Yes. You do have the -4 penalty and need enough range to hit them. And if you are forced to flee, you don't get the heal since you never finish resting.

[Volcanoris]

Just bought this game and played it for the first time with some friends, awesome game, but I had one question that I couldn't find an answer for anywhere.

When using passive non-battle shticks, is there any limit to the number that apply, if they can apply? I've found nothing in the rules, only that you can only use one battle shtick at a time.

The situation we're running into is specifically with leaping attack. With two in play one is boosted to +2 attack and +2 range, but there's nothing that says the other isn't boosted and used as well, resulting in +4 attack +4 range, for a range 4 attack 7 twin daggers of doom. With 3 leaps in play this jumps up to a 12 attack at 9 range before counting any equipped loot, with ring of jumping(?) making it a 15 attack at 12 range, the best attack I've seen in the game.

This is pretty nasty, so I'm assuming it goes against the spirit of the rules, but there's no rule we could find, unless we missed it digging through the rules and errata about 4 times, that keeps passive non-battle shticks from going up exponentially rather than linearly.

[Frogwarrior]

Just bought this game and played it for the first time with some friends, awesome game, but I had one question that I couldn't find an answer for anywhere.

When using passive non-battle shticks, is there any limit to the number that apply, if they can apply? I've found nothing in the rules, only that you can only use one battle shtick at a time.

The situation we're running into is specifically with leaping attack. With two in play one is boosted to +2 attack and +2 range, but there's nothing that says the other isn't boosted and used as well, resulting in +4 attack +4 range, for a range 4 attack 7 twin daggers of doom. With 3 leaps in play this jumps up to a 12 attack at 9 range before counting any equipped loot, with ring of jumping(?) making it a 15 attack at 12 range, the best attack I've seen in the game.

This is pretty nasty, so I'm assuming it goes against the spirit of the rules, but there's no rule we could find, unless we missed it digging through the rules and errata about 4 times, that keeps passive non-battle shticks from going up exponentially rather than linearly.

What you're missing is that multiple copies of a schtick, are not separate schticks. Additional copies only provide the boost. So with two copies, you only have one "Leaping Attack" schtick. You just have two cards' (one and a boost) worth of Leaping Attack.

[Volcanoris]

What you're missing is that multiple copies of a schtick, are not separate schticks. Additional copies only provide the boost. So with two copies, you only have one "Leaping Attack" schtick. You just have two cards' (one and a boost) worth of Leaping Attack.

There's actually nothing anywhere in the rules or errata, unless it's not in a section about schticks, that says anything that would imply they aren't seperate shticks. It simply states that a shtick is boosted once for every shtick with the same name you have in play that is face-up and since all copies of Leaping Attack are face up they should all boost each other. If I'm missing something that is actually in the rules please list a page so I can reference.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

If I'm missing something that is actually in the rules please list a page so I can reference.

Page 23 of the rulebook. The mini-comic is quite clear on how boost works.

[Volcanoris]

Page 23 of the rulebook. The mini-comic is quite clear on how boost works.

Meh, clear? No, that's vague at best, it's specifically referencing a battle schtick, and only says that the extra copies boost the first, not that they can't be used, they simply can't in that scenario since only one battle schtick can be used at a time. The only reference to multiples of a passive schtick is the bard song at the end of the comic, and again, that's vague at best on how they work. I'm sticking with the extras do nothing but boost, but I was hoping for something more clear cut than "you might want to go tell Elan all about that... He just drew his fourth Bard Song shtick" especially since there's nothing to that effect in the actual rules text.

[PePe QuiCoSE]

You know, you asked for a reference, there are more appropriate answers than "Meh" when you don't like what was offered. Still, it does answer your question.

The situation we're running into is specifically with leaping attack. With two in play one is boosted to +2 attack and +2 range, but there's nothing that says the other isn't boosted and used as well, resulting in +4 attack +4 range, for a range 4 attack 7 twin daggers of doom. With 3 leaps in play this jumps up to a 12 attack at 9 range before counting any equipped loot, with ring of jumping(?) making it a 15 attack at 12 range, the best attack I've seen in the game.

Since you have only 1 Twin Daggers of Doom (boosted by having 2 shticks, like the comics says) the benefit of Leaping Attack applies only once. You don't have 2 TDoD but 1 boosted, therefore you can only apply any bonus to the one you have.
Even in the scenario you described, you would be applying the boost to both TDoD but you can only use one of them for battles, so there is no way to add it up.

[Volcanoris]

You know, you asked for a reference, there are more appropriate answers than "Meh" when you don't like what was offered. Still, it does answer your question.
Since you have only 1 Twin Daggers of Doom (boosted by having 2 shticks, like the comics says) the benefit of Leaping Attack applies only once. You don't have 2 TDoD but 1 boosted, therefore you can only apply any bonus to the one you have.
Even in the scenario you described, you would be applying the boost to both TDoD but you can only use one of them for battles, so there is no way to add it up.

Actually it doesn't clearly answer my question, since Twin Daggers of Doom isn't boosted by Leaping Attack, LA just says TDoD gains +1 range and +1 attack. The only thing being boosted is the LAs but since they're not a battle schtick, or one that is flipped to trigger like Halfling Rage, there are no rules specifically stating that they don't all trigger, merely the vague reference in the comic, which points clearly towards the rule on battle schticks and brushes up against the rules for passive schticks, hence the "meh." I'm not sure I'm following your example, but nowhere did I apply LA to more than one TDoD, I just applied all of the LAs to one TDoD, which is the very action in question.

The simplest, and most balanced, interpretation is that yes, all copies of a schtick beyond the first are absorbed by the first original as a boost, but the only clear example of this is with a battle schtick, which already uses slightly different rules than other schticks. So, as I've already stated, I agree this is how it should work, even though I think it leaves Belkar a little underpowered, versus being overpowered, but that's a different matter, but I would like a definite reference that the rule does in fact work this way, and your reference, as stated, was vague in my opinion. Maybe you don't agree, and I do appreciate your, and all other, helpful attempts to clarify, but when I was looking for something clear cut and I get something vague, "meh" is the lackluster, "I'm unconvinced" kind of response I'm going to give, sorry if that particular onomatopoeia insulted you, never thought I'd use that word in a sentence.

[prj]

When using passive non-battle shticks, is there any limit to the number that apply, if they can apply?

You're right that there's no explicit, unambiguous statement in the rules that limits it to one (plus boosts). But it seems clear enough that that's the intent. If you look through the past messages in this thread, there might be something from apegamer or TheGiant that would confirm it - probably not explicitly, but they might have given an example that fits this interpretation only.

If this was different for battle vs. non-battle shticks, that would certainly merit an explicit mention, and there isn't any. Leaping Attack, Great Cleavage, Sneak Attack, and especially Bard Song would be rather overpowered if each one counted independently as well as boosting all the others. Great Cleavage is arguably overpowered already.

It could make for an interesting variation, though, if we throw in something to help V and Durkon stay competitive. Elan would need some help too, though, since inflating the power of Bard Song only helps the people he assists, not him.