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2011-08-22, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
How do I do it? I want to make an Enchantment Sorc, using a homebrew I found that lets a sorc know all spells in one school if they ban 4 others, but I can't figure out how to get past immunity.
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2011-08-22, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
That's...pretty much the reason why Enchantment is considered the worst school of magic.
Psionics DOES have routes for penetrating Mind Blank, but unfortunately conventional magic does not. You could Lim Wish to replicate the power maybe?
Also, things that have inherant immunity to Mind Affecting, such as Undead, Constructs, and Vermin are impossible to overcome by any means.
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2011-08-22, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Sadly, the most efficient route for 'bypassing immunity to Mind-Affecting' involves Charming and/or Dominating something that doesn't have immunity and making it beat down/persuade/bypass whatever it is that's giving you trouble.
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2011-08-22, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- The Land of Angles
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2011-08-22, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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2011-08-22, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- California, USA
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
As the others have said, you're pretty much boned. Unless you're reaching out to homebrew material.
That said you can focus on enchantment, while having a back-up focus to deal with things immune to your charms (minions, dispeling, explosions, party buffs, etc).
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2011-08-22, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
for specific creatures, it's not necessarily difficult to bypass the source of their immunity, though.
will need some spell-emulation magic items, though.
it's probably easier to just not focus on enchantment, though.
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2011-08-22, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
for specific creatures, it's not necessarily difficult to bypass the source of their immunity, though.
will need some spell-emulation magic items, though.
it's probably easier to just not focus on enchantment, though.
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2011-08-22, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Bellona
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
The best way, using enchantment, to stop someone who has Mind Blank up? Charm the troll standing next to him and ask him to smash his head in.
That's a little bit flippant, and of course it's never that easy, but unless your DM lets you research a spell version of Shatter Mind Blank, it's pretty much your only option.
That being said, the most effective Enchanters generally should look at taking a leaf out of the Necromancer's book. Use most of your Charm/Dominate style spells outside of combat (or immediately after), to give yourself minions that will fight for you. During combat, your spells should primarily be buffs and debuffs.
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2011-08-22, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Well, Dread Witch allows you to bypass immunity to fear, and ... wasn't there something like Nightmare Spinner that does something like that?
Avatar by zimmerwald1915
Characters:
Spoiler
Current characters: None, looking for a game.
Homebrew!
Wow, it's been a while. Sorry for the unexplained absence!
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2011-08-22, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
How does this homebrew work?
You give up access to 4 schools (of your choice?), and get access to all spells of one school. Do you then get the normal allotment of spells known from the remaining 3 schools? Do you get all spells of the school in question from all books?
If so, you could certainly use your remaining spells known to find spells to handle creatures immune to mind-affecting.
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2011-08-22, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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- In an Octopus's Garden
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Dex
SpoilerRegarding my Necrotic Apprentice trick:
Regarding my Non-Epic Hidecarved Dragon:
Check out the Versatile Domain Generalist.
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2011-08-22, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Granted, transmutation or conjuration would be best, of course, but the OP seems to like the mind-sorc theme.
Min-maxing, going with all Transmutation or Conjuration/Summoning spells, and then banning Necromancy, Evocation, Illusion, and then Abjuration or Divination would allow a lot of enchantment spells to be selected. I don't think that's what the OP wants though.Last edited by Drachasor; 2011-08-22 at 05:26 PM.
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2011-08-22, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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2011-08-22, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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- CA
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Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
There actually is one way, though its semi homebrew. The nightmare spinner class. In the adaptation section it mentions how it could be switched into a class that lets you bypass mind affecting immunity for dominate and charm spells. You would need to switch the class around a bit though.
Awesome Avatar by Derjuin
My Homebrew: Here
The Necromantic Codex: A collection of necromancy classes, items and monsters.
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2011-08-22, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Song of the Dead metamagic out of Dragon Magazine bypasses the immunity granted by being an intelligent undead, but that is obscure, specific, and also changes the spell to Necromancy.
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2011-08-22, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Pathfinder undead bloodline sorcerers can affect corporal undead that were once humanoid (a broader category in Pathfinder that includes giants) with spells they are normally immune to. In the right campaign, that is very sweet.
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2011-08-22, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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- Japan
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Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
If psions can break the immunity, all you need to do is dominate a psion and make them dominate the enemy.
The old Psychic Double Reacharound.Editor and playtester for Legend.
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2011-08-22, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Wish, Limited Wish, and Miracle.
How it works:
Wish, Limited Wish, and Miracle all have their own school and descriptor line. They all duplicate other spells.
By the standard inheritance rules, anything specified in the spell you're actually casting overrides the stuff that the spell text says it acts like. So Polymorph is still a Sor/Wiz 4, has a material component, is touch range, requires the subject be living, and lasts minutes/level, even though the spell it refrences (Alter Self) is Sor/Wiz 2, has no material component, is personal range, has no restriction on the subject's creature type, and lasts ten minutes/level.
So when Limited Wish inherits from Charm Monster, the school and descriptor line of Limited Wish overrides the school and descriptor line of Charm Monster... thus, that duplicated casting of Charm Monster is no longer mind-affecting. Have fun Charming constructs and undead.
Edit: Probably not helpful for you, though.
How's this: Pick up:
Dispel Ward (Spell Compendium - Sor/Wiz 1).
(Greater) Dispel Magic.
Rapid Metamagic (feat from Complete Mage)
Quicken Spell (Rapid Metamagic permits you to use it effectively)
You can now use Dispel Ward as a swift action on items likely to generate mind-affecting immunity effects (most are abjurations, and items usually don't have a very high caster level), and then your standard action to do the deed to the target. At higher levels, you'll be wanting to do this with (Greater) Dispel Magic.
You may also want to invest in metamagic reducers, or maybe Rods of Quicken Spell.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2011-08-22 at 07:22 PM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2011-08-23, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Thanks, everyone!
Here's the link to the homebrew: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=10
I was trying to figure out the sorts of spells a 6-or-so-year-old would use (that's most of the character idea, a permanently innocent, naive, trusting, mildly suggestible 6-year-old), and I figured that Enchantment would work the best.
Do any of you have ideas for easier specializations to work with that would still fit the idea? I was thinking maybe Illusion, for imaginary friends.
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2011-08-23, 02:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Conjuration/Summoning is totally 6 year-old magic. Summon friends! Kaboomies of various sorts. Lots of stuff. Transmutation I don't think works quite as well, but I figure you could actually flavor almost anything to a little kid, really. Sorcerous magic is powered by the imagination.
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2011-08-23, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Refluff the Shadow [School] line of spells as your nightmares made manifest. Isn't every six year old afraid of the dark?
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2011-08-23, 03:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Pennsylvania
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2011-08-23, 04:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Why would you want a ton of enchantment spells anyway, even if you could somehow overcome the immunity? There's only so many ways you need to cast "do what I say" and the rest are so much wasted potential.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2011-08-23, 08:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- Kansas
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Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
I thought I saw an epic feat that allows you to bypass Mindblank? Or was I mistaken? That might have been the only way without homebrew.
I underwent "Specialized High Intensity Training" for the English language. My training focused on avoiding abbreviations and acronyms. Not all of them are a good thing.
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2011-08-23, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Shatter Mind Blank isn't quite good either.
Exception cannot prove the rule. It disproves it.
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2011-08-23, 09:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
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- Bellona
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Shatter Mind Blank's sole saving grace is the fact that it is an area burst, which is really quite nice when you’re at high levels and 60% of what you fight has a Mind Blank effect up. But yeah, Will negates + PR + caster level check required means that they have a pretty good chance of keeping their Mind Blank up.
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2011-08-23, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
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2011-08-23, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Kansas
- Gender
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Well, I saw a feat that allows the Bard's music to affect things that are immune to mind effecting. So you could use the Fascinate or Suggestion ability as a Bard on things like Constructs, Plants, and creatures with Mindblank.
They do however receive a +10 bonus on their Will save.I underwent "Specialized High Intensity Training" for the English language. My training focused on avoiding abbreviations and acronyms. Not all of them are a good thing.
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2011-08-23, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: bypassing Immunity to Mind-affecting?
Polymorph Any Object allows you to change a creature's type, which can remove inherent mind-affecting immunity (for many things), and give it an intelligence score, which bypasses most other inherent immunities.
From there, a solid Dispel can usually eliminate spell protections, leaving only items.
There are ways to get rid of items, but they rely on either Chaining dispel or chaining lightning.All of this has happened before...
and all of this will happen again.
Moving. Internet access is a bit spotty.