League of Legends XXIV: Today's Noob Strat, Tomorrow's New Meta

[Spartacus]

Olaf is the only tanky DPS who ever worries me when I play Nasus, because with his true damage I actually take damage when he engages me.

[Dogmantra]

It really depends on your definition of fastest, but he can pull off some crazy shenanigans with clearing camps quickly. Phoenix Udyr and Karthus are his close contenders but (and I haven't checked in a while) last I checked he could reach some milestones faster than anyone else. <- VAGUENESS VAGUENESS

(I really don't remember whether it was a 1-4 clear or hitting a certain level or what)

[ArcanistSupreme]

He's used so often I haven't seen an NA team pick him since Dreamhack.

NA teams might not, but SK used him twice against CLG at IEM China. If I could find line-ups for tournaments since then, I'm sure that he'd pop up at least once or twice.

EDIT:
Found the website. Sypher ran him against CLG, SK ran him against v8, Sypher banned him against v8 (a North American team), and Crs banned him against v8 at IEM New York.

[LordShotGun]

I personally just have never been impressed by amumu. Mostly because while he can initiate battles, once he uses his ulti, he is seemingly quite useless unlike udry, nocturn, rammus, and nunu who can continue to not only be effective but dangerous in team fights.

Amumu just seems to sit there and get ignored because all his skills deal very little damage.

[ArcanistSupreme]

I personally just have never been impressed by amumu. Mostly because while he can initiate battles, once he uses his ulti, he is seemingly quite useless unlike udry, nocturn, rammus, and nunu who can continue to not only be effective but dangerous in team fights.

Amumu just seems to sit there and get ignored because all his skills deal very little damage.

But if you ignore him, he deals 2.7% of your health in damage (+24 flat damage) every second, plus tantrum every few seconds. Oh, and he shreds magic resistance. No, he doesn't have great burst, but you can't ignore him indefinitely. And if he gets sunfire cape, your health actually goes down alarmingly fast.

[Spartacus]

Amumu actually has decent AoE damage. No burst, clearly, but over time it adds up fairly quickly, and you can bet a well built Amumu will stick around for a while.

[Dogmantra]

I personally just have never been impressed by amumu. Mostly because while he can initiate battles, once he uses his ulti, he is seemingly quite useless

That's a little like saying when she's blinded, Vayne seems a bit useless. Amumu is his ultimate and what an ultimate it is. One of the best abilities in the game for certain. That said, your other criticism is rather unfounded, yes he seems more underwhelming than, say, Udyr, but look at Amumu's ultimate compared to Udyr's. Yeah, those two seconds will be a victory for Amumu's team and don't you know it. The seconds after might slowly be brought back by an Udyr, but guess what? Amumu also counters tanky DPS with his %health.

And just to top it all, if he's ever tanky enough that he can grab some AP, his AP ratios are some of the best in the game for what his skills are. 1:1 stun, 0.01%health per second per AP, 0.somethingdecent on a spammable AoE and finally his ultimate.
Good lord his ultimate.
WHY DOES IT HAVE A 1:1 RATIO.
WHYYYYYYYYYYYY

[9mm]

WHY DOES IT HAVE A 1:1 RATIO.
WHYYYYYYYYYYYY

Because god wants you to feel what Amumu does...

[Raistlin1040]

WHO IS THAT SWANKY GENTLEMAN LOOKIN' SO FLY IN HIS NEW HAT?
MUST BE MAGEMUMU, THAT BRO KNOWS WHERE IT'S AT

Amumu's ratios are hilarious.

[Darth Mario]

Tantrum has a 0.5 ratio, for a total ratio of 2.5 + 0.01% per point of AP. Plus, if you focus Bandage Toss, the cooldown gets low enough that it is also fairly spammable. I can get two or three off in an average teamfight, not counting the one to initiate. This is why APmumu is entirely boss on Dominion.

I have termed my current favorite Amumu build on Rift (not that serious a build) the "I put on my robes and Wizard Hat" build. HoG/Philo/Boots/maybe a Kage into Sunfire Cape, Banshee's Veil, and Deathcap.

Edit: WAIT I JUST REALIZED RIOT MIGHT SEE THIS THREAD AND NERF HIM

I AGREE WITH TOASTY AMUMU IS UP BAD BUFF PLOX

[Eldariel]

No threat before completing Atma's unless you take redbuff from jungler.

That's the problem with Atma's in general; neither of the pieces is a damage item so it doesn't meaningfully increase your damage before you finish it. And Warmog's wants to be rushed further exacerbating the issue.


Amumu's AP ratios are interesting since he has superb ratios but awful base values. Observe:

Bandage Toss - Ok, this is the only exception. Highish base damage for a medium cooldown nuke (same as Anivia's Q for instance, though not AOE; needs lots of ranks to bring the cooldown down, of course) and good scaling.

Despair - 2.7% base damage on max rank (24 flat to boot; not even 1% of a 3k HP target). Malzahar pool is 8%. Both have the same scaling.

Tantrum - Mediocre damage at 175 and mediocre scaling at .5, but it has the inherent refresh mechanism that can effectively make it usable like once per second with help of enemy caster minions so that's actually fairly good.

Curse of the Sad Mummy - 250 base damage on max level. On an ultimate. Sure, it's still awesome, but that damage is just inexistent. And on a massive cooldown. Of course, then you add to it the fact that it has a 1.0 AP ratio (on a massive AOE ult!) and you have a recipe for awesome.


Theorycrafted AP Mummy Build For Dominion Just For Lulz (he needs the tankiness to be in the front hence the itemization; his kit isn't kind to being squishy though there's this for people who like to salivate after numbers they never get to use)

[Darth Mario]

The build I've personally had a lot of success with on Dominion with AP Amumu goes something like this:

Amp Tome/Ninja Tabi open, for absurd fighting ability for the top point. Tabi is an amazingly underrated opening item, and still leaves you with enough gold to get some extra damage after Boots 2.

Amp Tome builds into Morello's Evil Tome
Deathcap
Tankyness as needed
Void Staff/Abyssal

[Qwertystop]

What's it mean to "rush" an item as opposed to just getting it?

[Darth Mario]

What's it mean to "rush" an item as opposed to just getting it?

Rushing an item means it's the NEXT THING YOU GET, possibly forgoing wards, health pots, or elixers. It also means that you'll probably need to be more focused on farming rather than map objectives in some cases, though most objectives do give a significant gold incentive.

[Qwertystop]

Rushing an item means it's the NEXT THING YOU GET, possibly forgoing wards, health pots, or elixers. It also means that you'll probably need to be more focused on farming rather than map objectives in some cases, though most objectives do give a significant gold incentive.

So the difference between that and having an order you get items in is whether to get consumables in between?

[balistafreak]

What's it mean to "rush" an item as opposed to just getting it?

To me, it usually means you want to complete it before picking up pieces of anything else. A lot of times you'll buy small parts to several items alongside each other. For example, I'll usually buy Boots 1 while building a Rod of Ages, because in the middle of building Rod I'll hit that point where I really want those Boots 1. If I'm rushing Rod of Ages, I won't even get those boots in the middle, and just bite the bullet about moving slowly.

Or, I might build Rabadon's Deathcap. Normally I might pick up a Chain Vest or a Negatron Cloak somewhere in the middle for midgame/lategame defense, but because I'm "rushing" I don't even pick those up.

[Dogmantra]

So the difference between that and having an order you get items in is whether to get consumables in between?

Well, it really depends. I think the best way to think about it is that an item you rush is an item you'd hold off upgrading to boots 2 for. Not a perfect rule, but it gives you an idea of an item's importance when they say "rush".

[Eldariel]

What's it mean to "rush" an item as opposed to just getting it?

Generally it just means getting it ASAP TBH. Skipping Wards and Pots rarely means getting it ASAP (since no Wards & Pots = less farming; the whole point of those items is to enable you to farm safely and constantly on the lane without basing) but it means you don't e.g. piece-build other items first, and prioritize the rush item basically regardless. The reason on Warmog's is obvious; the earlier you finish it, the earlier you get to stack it fully and make it worth the gold. RoA is a similar case though not as extreme.

And yeh, Atmog's really takes a long to give you any damage for this reason. Most items give you significant damage as you build them but Atmog's has you at 0 bonus damage for ~5k gold. This means it really takes a while to kick off (then it gives you ~60 AD out of the blue, of course). This is why some people build Atma's before Warmog's even tho that's a long, long time to fully stack the Warmog's. Atma's at least gives you some damage constantly to carry you over the transition. Some tops can afford to go for Mogs first tho.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

So...probably no power until Thursday. So I'll see you guys then, with luck.

[userpay]

Faced a pretty nasty team comp last night. Akali and Zilean top, Tristana mid, Rammus and Zerath bot. Zilean to keep Akali alive and chasing, Rammus tethers with his taunt while Zerath happily blasts away. I've also figured out that as much as I'd like to play melee I'm pretty much crap with them as I'm much to aggressive.

[tribble]

Magic penetration will still be worth more by endgame. ~14% reduced effective HP against magic damage will be worth more than full AP/level.

No mana/5/level yellows mean possible starvation in lane and midgame if blue buff can't be 100% secured.

Some champions really like CDR blues. Others prefer MR/level blues so that they don't instantly die to burst lategame if they don't have any MR items (Abyssal Scepter comes to mind). 27% effective health against burst is a LOT.

Full flat AD, full crit chance, full AP/level pages all seem really hilarious on paper, but then you have to remember what you're giving up.

Yeah, Penetrative reds are better lategame, but know something? I find it doesn't matter when I get slapped so hard during the laning phase that I have to either go back to base and lose farm, experience, and possibly a tower, or die and lose all of those things anyway AND feed my opponent cash. I can't itemise agaisnt it, it's usually done with champions with targeted spells, so I can't dodge it, I can't lose the lane outright and then expect to come back from that crippling a disadvantadge, I'm just starting to feel like this cheesy joke page is effectively a "win lane for free" card, and I'm frustrated by it.

[balistafreak]

Yeah, Penetrative reds are better lategame, but know something? I find it doesn't matter when I get slapped so hard during the laning phase that I have to either go back to base and lose farm, experience, and possibly a tower, or die and lose all of those things anyway AND feed my opponent cash. I can't itemise agaisnt it, it's usually done with champions with targeted spells, so I can't dodge it, I can't lose the lane outright and then expect to come back from that crippling a disadvantadge, I'm just starting to feel like this cheesy joke page is effectively a "win lane for free" card, and I'm frustrated by it.

If they don't win their lane for free, though...

... that's the price. You're going to have to find some way to survive that sort of hell. Get good at last-hitting at your tower?

I've had a few hilarious lanes like this before: full AD Garen or Xin Zhao solo top, or full AP Annie or Brand mid. It hurts to trade harass with them - you simply can't.

I ended up winning about three of four times by calling for heavy early game assistance. Gank from jungler, or even top or bottom lane. Once they get behind, they stay behind.

[Arbitrarity]

Faced a pretty nasty team comp last night. Akali and Zilean top, Tristana mid, Rammus and Zerath bot. Zilean to keep Akali alive and chasing, Rammus tethers with his taunt while Zerath happily blasts away. I've also figured out that as much as I'd like to play melee I'm pretty much crap with them as I'm much to aggressive.

Wat

All right, so here's what should happen with these lanes.

You put Cass, Karthus, Orianna, or some other strong ranged mid in there to stop Trist from farming. They have to be a bit careful with positioning to avoid getting jumped, but at least they aren't getting ganked, and they should be able to damage Trist enough that she won't farm perfectly. This in turn gimps her in midgame, which should cripple her.

You put an absurdly safe laner bot. Udyr, Galio, Gragas, Morgana, Kennen. I'd be inclined towards Morg, due to Black Shield and snare, but if she plays it wrong, she could get zoned. Udyr can just tank creeps outside of tower range, which works well for him, and Gragas/Kennen are always effective. They should be able to not die and farm safely without getting denied too much, since Rammus isn't too threatening without flash, and Xerath is less devastating without levels.

You put ye olde support/carry top. Reason for this is that support/carry has a better shot at beating Akali/Zilean, especially with wards. Cait is notable here for traps revealing, which can shut down Akali stealth as a defensive mechanism, if paired with some CC, but pretty much any regular ranged carry should severely damage Akali in lane pre-6, and with some sustain (i.e. Sona, Soraka, perhaps Taric) they should be able to deal with Zilean bombs. Also, guess which side gets ganks?

Then you have a jungler. I'd recommend Lee Sin for Tempest countering Akali, but Nocturne, Trundle, and Olaf (can farm all game with two jungles, ganking? Pshaw) seem like they'd do pretty well. Skarner maybe, WW sorta. Udyr hates Zilean... Cho might work well, since half of the enemy team is spell-dependent, though he's an easy target for Xerath.
Team needs to build early MR to deal with Akali/Zilean/Xerath/Trist/Rammus damage, which are all extremely magic-heavy early. Depending on how mid does at shutting down Trist, you may be able to ignore armor for quite some time, until IE time (which could be 25+ minutes). Jungler should get oracles so he can run everywhere safely, pass out buffs like candy, and farm all the things.

Also, Pen reds are better early-game. Archaic Knowledge gets enemy MR down to 25, pen reds mean it's at 17ish. 80% vs 85.7% is a 7% damage increase, compared with 1 AP/level. There is no way 1 AP/level is near 7% of your damage.

Countering early AP? Get flat MR blues. Cheap, efficient, and they cut enemy magic damage from 80% to 70%, which I think mathematically counters 4 AP/level, depending on the champion and skill selection.

[Spartacus]

I feel the need to point out that the hitbox for Big Cho is the same as for Small Cho.

[userpay]

Wat

All right, so here's what should happen with these lanes.

You put Cass, Karthus, Orianna, or some other strong ranged mid in there to stop Trist from farming. They have to be a bit careful with positioning to avoid getting jumped, but at least they aren't getting ganked, and they should be able to damage Trist enough that she won't farm perfectly. This in turn gimps her in midgame, which should cripple her.

You put an absurdly safe laner bot. Udyr, Galio, Gragas, Morgana, Kennen. I'd be inclined towards Morg, due to Black Shield and snare, but if she plays it wrong, she could get zoned. Udyr can just tank creeps outside of tower range, which works well for him, and Gragas/Kennen are always effective. They should be able to not die and farm safely without getting denied too much, since Rammus isn't too threatening without flash, and Xerath is less devastating without levels.

You put ye olde support/carry top. Reason for this is that support/carry has a better shot at beating Akali/Zilean, especially with wards. Cait is notable here for traps revealing, which can shut down Akali stealth as a defensive mechanism, if paired with some CC, but pretty much any regular ranged carry should severely damage Akali in lane pre-6, and with some sustain (i.e. Sona, Soraka, perhaps Taric) they should be able to deal with Zilean bombs. Also, guess which side gets ganks?

Then you have a jungler. I'd recommend Lee Sin for Tempest countering Akali, but Nocturne, Trundle, and Olaf (can farm all game with two jungles, ganking? Pshaw) seem like they'd do pretty well. Skarner maybe, WW sorta. Udyr hates Zilean... Cho might work well, since half of the enemy team is spell-dependent, though he's an easy target for Xerath.
Team needs to build early MR to deal with Akali/Zilean/Xerath/Trist/Rammus damage, which are all extremely magic-heavy early. Depending on how mid does at shutting down Trist, you may be able to ignore armor for quite some time, until IE time (which could be 25+ minutes). Jungler should get oracles so he can run everywhere safely, pass out buffs like candy, and farm all the things.

Also, Pen reds are better early-game. Archaic Knowledge gets enemy MR down to 25, pen reds mean it's at 17ish. 80% vs 85.7% is a 7% damage increase, compared with 1 AP/level. There is no way 1 AP/level is near 7% of your damage.

Countering early AP? Get flat MR blues. Cheap, efficient, and they cut enemy magic damage from 80% to 70%, which I think mathematically counters 4 AP/level, depending on the champion and skill selection.

I probably should have pointed out this was solo queue. Perhaps I need to start playing draft more...

[Spartacus]

I want to point out that percentage reduction comes after flat reduction, not before.

[tribble]

If they don't win their lane for free, though...

... that's the price. You're going to have to find some way to survive that sort of hell. Get good at last-hitting at your tower?

I've had a few hilarious lanes like this before: full AD Garen or Xin Zhao solo top, or full AP Annie or Brand mid. It hurts to trade harass with them - you simply can't.

I ended up winning about three of four times by calling for heavy early game assistance. Gank from jungler, or even top or bottom lane. Once they get behind, they stay behind.

I am fairly decent at last hitting under a tower, the problem is that people who do this also get good at chucking spells at you from just outside of tower range,or doing the towerpoke shuffle where they dance under the tower, throw a spell, and then waltz back out from under the tower before the projectile lands and they take aggro.

I just wish i could have one of these obnoxious cheese people when I pick a super long range laner, like gragas or lux. It only seems to happen to me when I have someone who can't just farm or harass from a whole screen away, like singed or rammus.

EDIT: Speaking of rammus i wish to try jungling him, should I be able to use generic jungler masteries?

[tribble]

I feel the need to point out that the hitbox for Big Cho is the same as for Small Cho.

WAT. I'm probably doubleposting, but seriously, WAT. I'm not sure I believe it, I've had the experience of clicking on cho when I mean to nuke the carry he's hugging.

[Spartacus]

No, clicking on him uses the character model, not the hitbox. Skillshots like Ezreal's Q can go straight through the model, because they use the hitbox. The model changes size, but the hitbox does not.

[Darth Mario]

WAT. I'm probably doubleposting, but seriously, WAT. I'm not sure I believe it, I've had the experience of clicking on cho when I mean to nuke the carry he's hugging.

I think he means the skillshot hitbox, not the targeted ability hitbox. That would be really silly to have be the same size.