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Old 03-05-2012, 01:27 AM   Top  -  End  -  #121
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Ok, so while working on my char I found that unarmed needs to be hit woth the nerf bat...hard.
My char is an unseelie petal fey with a couple other templates that add up to +6 cha and plus 2 con. I have 18 Hands and a sizeable amount of money, although I will give examples with and without that factoted in. Scores that matter are cha of +18 and con of +11. For a similar char without my funds and templates a cha +9 and con +5 is by no means hard to get.

This ability is gotten at level 1. I can whip out a lightsaber that deals stupid damage and stupid to hit especially if I put all available hands into the saber.
Examples: funded= .5*18*19=9*19=171 to hit and damage at level 13.
At level 1=.5*18*14=9*14=126
Unfunded: level 13=.5*9*12=9*6=54
level 1=.5*9*7=31.5

The problem is not the damage as I feel that is roughly what melee should be able to do. The bonus to hit is what I feel should be lowered. Suggestions are to separate its formula from the damage one and make it .5*cha mod+ (hands +1). This would yield results of lvl13=28 to hit or 16 to hit. Level 1= 23 or 11.

While that method would curb its power it eould also make it so you cant hit the people that focused on ac later. Another suggestion would be to put a cap on how many hands can be put into it of 1 per level.
this becomes 13=126 or 54. 1=18 or 9. This could also work if you feel the damage is too high. Adds a nice scaling factor to it.

Of the two options I like the last one the best, with the two formulas still being linked.

Thoughts?
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:39 AM   Top  -  End  -  #122
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

@ Veklim

That feat tree is awesome. It gives just enough incentive for people to really consider taking the individual feats throughout the entire tree. The bonuses the feats give are really well thought out when compared to the feat tax to get to them.
However, they might need some exception rules for telekinetic Fighting as otherwise it can be read as allowing full attacking with only a move action which, especially with unarmed telekineticist, is way too good.

@ DerTollUdo

The ability is interesting, but +5 to DC per hand is too much (maybe +2). Also, it would probably be better to allow +50lb/lvl for each extra hand as otherwise even large enemies might never be affectable.
I'd actually make it easier for them to escape if more enemies are inside.
Considering what you have here is an area immobilization attack, it should be easier to hold one person rather than many.
The damage is okay and the crushing is interesting.
This is definitely something for later in the class, maybe somewhere level 10+.

On the retype:

I still don't really like mental strenght due to it not being linear. The 'more hands=more speed' is nice but the current system weight restriction means that huge enemies (even if you forgoe the borked core weights given in the MM and such) are outside of what you can ever do. A large creature weighs 8 times as much as a medium, so thats easily 1,600lb and even if you go huge being 27 times, thats already 5400lb and as such way above what you can do.

Telekinetic Fighting looks pretty good now, though I am unsure wether the greater version isn't too strong since you reduced both forms of penalties to only a -1 (per 10' distance/per extra weapon). Then again, most of the time you do best damage with only one weapon anyway and most others will be providing flanking and such.
Though this brings up a question, can an enemy move through squares occupied by weapons, or could you box them in?

Far trick is more reasonably paced, though it really wasn't bad before.

Focused Shield is more like a psionic power now as you can decide what bonuses you want for extra invested hands. I guess the extra size option means that: 1hand=10'x10'; 2hands=15'x15', 3hands=20'x20'
Together with the option to shape it, could I do the following?
I invest 4 hands into size, making it a 25'x25', which means 25 individual 5'x5' wall segments. I now invest an extra hand to make it shapeable and use it to make a 10' high wall encasing a 15'x15' area to box in a medium enemy.

New capstone:
Say hello to the pure telekineticist who now sports 40hands.
Combine that with mental strenght, focused shield and far trick and you better hope he doesn't like to troll people.

Unarmed can be applied to pure...
NO, just NO.
Do you have any idea what kind of fighting monster that would be? The pure telekineticist should never, ever have access to the unarmed's weapon-system. Unarmed alone is already potentially overpowered (less potentially and more "Yes it is, but in high practical optimization games its still okay in its base form).
Of course I say that here and plan to do just that in a game that allows taking in class features from other classes, but overall its just insane.

your unarmed post:

I have to admit i can't really follow your calculations, but I am of the same opinion that unarmed is way too strong.

I go with a bog standard character with cha16/and con14 at level 2.
I'm going to disregard range penalties here so the actual amount might be a bit less in-game.
At that point he would have 3 hands.
Invest all of those and suddenly he has a weapon that does 3d6+6 with an attack bonus of +8.
At level 6 he should probably have a +2con and a +2cha item. So that 6 hands. That creates a weapon with +20 attack bonus and 6d6+14 damage.
Level 12 and he probably has +4 items for the stats. He now has 9 hands.
This results in +37 attack bonus and 9d6+25 damage.
Level 18 and he has +6 items, leading to 12 hands. Now the weapon has an attack bonus of +57 and a damage of 12d6+39.

This is all without even assigning any stat increases which drive up both attack and damage regardless where you put them.

Now imagine you actually could use this ACF in combination with pure telekineticist...

Not sure what to do with the attack bonus and such. Personally I'd consider maybe an increase in attack bonus of +1 per invested hand and a damage increase of half chamod per 2 invested hands beyond the first.
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:43 AM   Top  -  End  -  #123
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
@ Veklim

That feat tree is awesome. It gives just enough incentive for people to really consider taking the individual feats throughout the entire tree. The bonuses the feats give are really well thought out when compared to the feat tax to get to them.
Thankyou! Not bad for 15 minutes work eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
However, they might need some exception rules for telekinetic Fighting as otherwise it can be read as allowing full attacking with only a move action which, especially with unarmed telekineticist, is way too good.
If you check the feats carefully, TK Fighting isn't one of the listed abilities you can upgrade. I was planning on making a seperate TK Fighting tree which would allow a player to use TK Fighting as their primary attack function instead of for group support as it currently stands. It will also make it harder (via feat taxing) for a character to optimise TK Fighting on top of any one or two other abilities, very deliberate on my part

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
@ DerTollUdo

The ability is interesting, but +5 to DC per hand is too much (maybe +2).
I would agree with the +2, it's in line with the rest of the class and other abilities, and gives you plenty of room to mess about still. I also agree that it should be +50lb/level for each additional hand, there's no way this will be used on most enemies by 19th level otherwise, they'd all be too big!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
Not sure what to do with the attack bonus and such. Personally I'd consider maybe an increase in attack bonus of +1 per invested hand and a damage increase of half chamod per 2 invested hands beyond the first.
Unarmed needs some serious attention, and I even daresay a complete overhaul/rewrite. It is just broken honestly. I think taking a few cues from soulknife would be appropiate for the calculations on damage, adding a flatline +2 to hit and damage for each additional hand. This should make it a little more balanced. Considering the Unarmed ACF is designed to effectively replace TK Fighting, we can easily put in a Least, Lesser, Improved and Greater progression for it instead. This should allow us to be both more inventive (thinking status effects akin to the Force Blast nausea) and keep a tighter reign on scaling.

Also, does nobody else like the Mentalist ACF I made? I was gonna make one for each discipline but if people think it's a blind alley I shalln't bother!
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:15 AM   Top  -  End  -  #124
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Durr, I wanted to post about the Mentalist but completely forgot after some time.

Things you lose:
Martial Skill and Critical Thinking are okay.
Please don't take telekinetic reach from this guy. While he gets shiny new abilities, reach is one of the few things that makes telekinetic fighting interesting for more support oriented characters. AoOs and flanking are vital for it.

Abilities:

The psi-likes are a nice bunch of powers and can be used a good amount of time. Especially useful as/if you can use more than one at a time with enough hands (though it cuts into your daily budget).
Hostile Empathic Transfer: Can you use your 'hands' for the touch attack?
This shows that you really should invest in con with this ACF.

Power Overwhelming is very well paced to make sure you never can attempt to get more virtual PP than your virtual manifester level.

Mind's eye. Oh boy, not only do you know where everyone is, you also know what everyone's thinking. Coupled with the elimination of the stun problem, this is very very good. Though it could lead to interesting situations when a player tries to read the thoughts of random things. I also hope he doesn't do a city adventure or the telekineticist will need a big prescription of aspirin.

The capstone modification:
OKay, but feels a bit restricting. Considering many characters who see this happen might go on into epic you could go with. "You always count as having an extra number of hands invested equal to half your total number hands you are allowed to augment it with."
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:49 PM   Top  -  End  -  #125
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Wow, meant that change for Singularity. Must of been a typo when typing it up. Also changed the save bonus as I will go with what you guys think, as I am not always the best judge of balance lol. Fixed below.

As to the multiple targets adding dc, the ability is called singularity for a reason :) It is supposed to simulate creating a point of gravity and the enemies getting caught in it. More enemies=more gravity=they are screwed lol.

I was thinking about making one that does the opposite. Basically a repulsion from a point. Any thoughts on if I should or where to put it?

Spoiler



As to unarmed, I feel like a simple limit of being able to invest only 1 Hand per level per weapon would curb its power nicely without crippling it. And doing that would make it so even the Pure couldn't abuse it too easily.

Also, fluff wise, any thoughts on what the weapons should be allowed to resemble?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post

@ DerTollUdo

The ability is interesting, but +5 to DC per hand is too much (maybe +2). Also, it would probably be better to allow +50lb/lvl for each extra hand as otherwise even large enemies might never be affectable.
I'd actually make it easier for them to escape if more enemies are inside.
Considering what you have here is an area immobilization attack, it should be easier to hold one person rather than many.
The damage is okay and the crushing is interesting.
This is definitely something for later in the class, maybe somewhere level 10+.

I disagree with he making it easier for multiple people, reason above, but also because he is a battlefield controller. Hard to control the field if you can only hold one guy at a time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
On the retype:

I still don't really like mental strenght due to it not being linear. The 'more hands=more speed' is nice but the current system weight restriction means that huge enemies (even if you forgoe the borked core weights given in the MM and such) are outside of what you can ever do. A large creature weighs 8 times as much as a medium, so thats easily 1,600lb and even if you go huge being 27 times, thats already 5400lb and as such way above what you can do.
I can only do so much on my own lol, what would your suggestion be? The only other suggestion I have is to make the weight limit (25*invested hands/level) for indefinite sustain and (50*invested hands/level) for the effort one with a speed of 5'/rd/invested hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
Telekinetic Fighting looks pretty good now, though I am unsure wether the greater version isn't too strong since you reduced both forms of penalties to only a -1 (per 10' distance/per extra weapon). Then again, most of the time you do best damage with only one weapon anyway and most others will be providing flanking and such.
Though this brings up a question, can an enemy move through squares occupied by weapons, or could you box them in?
The penalties are range -1/10' damage is -1/20' harder to hit, but can still be a threat at high ranges, this means that at lvl15 hitting someone at your range would impose -15 to hit and -7 to damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
Far trick is more reasonably paced, though it really wasn't bad before.
After looking at it I felt that grappling that late was basically pointless. So, I made it happen earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
Focused Shield is more like a psionic power now as you can decide what bonuses you want for extra invested hands. I guess the extra size option means that: 1hand=10'x10'; 2hands=15'x15', 3hands=20'x20'
Together with the option to shape it, could I do the following?
I invest 4 hands into size, making it a 25'x25', which means 25 individual 5'x5' wall segments. I now invest an extra hand to make it shapeable and use it to make a 10' high wall encasing a 15'x15' area to box in a medium enemy.
You are right about the sizing part.
As to your example, you would get 25 wall segments. As for the area you wanted to cover, you are correct that you can build 4 10'walls 15' long. You would have 1 extra 5'x5' panel to boot!

I feel like that is what I going for, but do you guys feel it is too strong?

Oh and at one point someone said about the abilities effecting coterminous planes, this is one that it would apply to easily. The walls would be able to stop incorporeal creatures.

Hmmm, I wonder if we should do something that makes the wall harder to get through?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
New capstone:
Say hello to the pure telekineticist who now sports 40hands.
Combine that with mental strenght, focused shield and far trick and you better hope he doesn't like to troll people.
Powerful yes, game breaking no, epic preparing yes. Balanced? I think so, how about you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
Unarmed can be applied to pure...
NO, just NO.
Do you have any idea what kind of fighting monster that would be? The pure telekineticist should never, ever have access to the unarmed's weapon-system. Unarmed alone is already potentially overpowered (less potentially and more "Yes it is, but in high practical optimization games its still okay in its base form).
Of course I say that here and plan to do just that in a game that allows taking in class features from other classes, but overall its just insane.
I will listen to your thoughts about it being overpowered, I will probably even accepted, but you must first give a solid reason as to why. Examples with and without pure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Re'ozul View Post
your unarmed post:

I have to admit i can't really follow your calculations, but I am of the same opinion that unarmed is way too strong.

I go with a bog standard character with cha16/and con14 at level 2.
I'm going to disregard range penalties here so the actual amount might be a bit less in-game.
At that point he would have 3 hands.
Invest all of those and suddenly he has a weapon that does 3d6+6 with an attack bonus of +8.
At level 6 he should probably have a +2con and a +2cha item. So that 6 hands. That creates a weapon with +20 attack bonus and 6d6+14 damage.
Level 12 and he probably has +4 items for the stats. He now has 9 hands.
This results in +37 attack bonus and 9d6+25 damage.
Level 18 and he has +6 items, leading to 12 hands. Now the weapon has an attack bonus of +57 and a damage of 12d6+39.

This is all without even assigning any stat increases which drive up both attack and damage regardless where you put them.

Now imagine you actually could use this ACF in combination with pure telekineticist...

Not sure what to do with the attack bonus and such. Personally I'd consider maybe an increase in attack bonus of +1 per invested hand and a damage increase of half chamod per 2 invested hands beyond the first.
I say, let's try this with a new calculation. .5*chamod*(invested Hands+1) max Hands invested equal to your class levels.

Would that solve the issue?
Calculations become at level 1 chamod to hit and damage. At level 13 it becomes 7*chamod. So for you example, that becomes:
Level2 2d6+3 +3 to hit
Level6 6d6+12 +12 to hit
Level12 9d6+20 +20 to hit
Level18 12d6+36 +36 to hit

Seems better to me. Thoughts?
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Old 03-05-2012, 06:23 PM   Top  -  End  -  #126
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Thinking about singularity, it' fine to add +2 DC per affected target, because the more targets there are, the less hands you can put on any one of them. This way actually balances itself nicely in a kinda perverse way!

With regards to the Repulsion idea, it would make a lot of sense to me if it were the same ability as Singularity. Either you pull everyone in together and hold them there for damage, or you throw everyone outwards to make space and deal damage. All you have to change is the direction of movement, put in a maximum range for targets, probably make it something like every target in a 30ft radius of the central hand is thrown 30ft + 30ft/additional hand devoted to the target, then you just hurt them for 5D6 damage + 1D6 per extra hand and they can't re-enter the 30ft area until the end of the effect. Should be reflex for half damage, on a failed save they land prone.

Unarmed and Pure can't co-exist, since they both replace martial skill and martial weapon proficiency. This is not a problem IMO. HOWEVER!!! The replacements seem all wrong to me, surely Unarmed should lose TK Fighting, and Pure should lose weapon/armour proficiencies and Critical thinking...? In my mind the ACF placeholders should be like this:
Pure Replaces: Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
Unarmed Replaces: Martial Weapon Proficiency, TK Fighting, Telekinetic Reach, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking
We then write an unarmed version for TK Fighting (tier by tier replacement abilities), TK Reach (make a scaling ability which ups the damage/to hit with extra hands with this perhaps) & Critical Thinking (something like status effect nasties would be good for a replacement here), and switch them on a 1:1 basis.

I think Pure is fine since it replaces TK Fighting, so their utility steps away from melee and into control. Unarmed is just too complicated/powerful though, no matter how you tweak the numbers, you're still multiplying Cha modifier by large numbers of hands which makes a level 10 Unarmed TK look just a little terrifiying.

Why don't we make Unarmed TK work so each hand can become a soulknife-esque blade instead. To get more damage, you just use more on a target, kinda like the thousand cuts approach. The damage per hand could scale quite happily using the ACF replacement abilities and we could give them interesting options to distinguish between standard and unarmed TKs a bit more than 'This guy uses swords and this guy creates swords to use'

With regards to Mental Strength, I like the simplicity of 25lb/level/hand for indefinite use and 50lb/level/hand for limited duration. I have an idea for the next bit, bear with me!!
Carrying capacity is already existant, so what if we consider 50lb/level/hand to be a heavy load? 20ft/round (lift off ground) would then be double heavy load, 10ft/round (push or drag, therefore movement but only along the ground) would be five times heavy load.
Works to allow for heavier stuff getting moved more slowly (which is an element of the original which I always liked), adding the dynamic of REALLY heavy stuff getting pushed/dragged instead of flung about!

Will break down the Mentalist thingy soon, tweak and format into a choice of any one psionic discipline as a 'psionic domain' for these guys. That and TK Fighting feats should occur in the next day or so!
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:30 PM   Top  -  End  -  #127
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Ok fine. I give up. The two can't blend. While I dont see it as OP I can see that they would give up only a little to have super swords and infinite battlefield control.
With that said, they do need different things to give up I agree. Also that those things should be replaced instead of simply forgotten. Start up some theories and Ill do the same. Just gotta get some more time and I will put mine up.
I like the repulsion in singularity. Will add it in.

I work great when people give me ideas, less so when trying to make my own lol so your ideas help :)
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:51 PM   Top  -  End  -  #128
DarkSunLord1
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Interesting. Have you any thoughts on giving this class epic level rules?

Last edited by DarkSunLord1 : 03-05-2012 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:54 PM   Top  -  End  -  #129
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

once the others stop overhauling, It would be feasible... as is, you can make them, I just expect minor changes later that would through the progression off.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:12 PM   Top  -  End  -  #130
DarkSunLord1
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

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Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
once the others stop overhauling, It would be feasible... as is, you can make them, I just expect minor changes later that would through the progression off.
Unfortunately, I have no personal experience with making rule mechanics for any roleplaying game

If you have not already looked, however, I do think a way to evolve this class may be found in looking at the powers of the Diclonius of the anime/manga "Elfen Lied".
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #131
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Oh Bob, you make it sound like you don't want us helping you :P
But seriously, you can always say you dont like any of the changes. Or help us make more so we can make a viable option based class ;)
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:28 PM   Top  -  End  -  #132
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

not my intention. the more you to change it, and the less I look at it in the process, the better. once I get a big chunk of time, I'll go over the new base, futz with it, and the process starts anew. editing and revising are beautiful things. but as this is still in a permeable form, making an epic progression is a bit silly. additionally I would be bad for that as I have little to no epic play experience...
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:26 AM   Top  -  End  -  #133
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Spoiler


Ok added Repulsion to Singularity. Removed the combo line from Unarmed. Still need to reword what the ACFs lose and gain. Is your Mentalist ready to be inserted? Thoughts on Repulsion?

Last edited by DerTollUdo : 03-06-2012 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:06 PM   Top  -  End  -  #134
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

OK, I've done The Traveller and The Beast to go with The Mentalist, lemme know if I'm on the right track or not and I'll make the rest!

TK SAVANT ACF
Whereas the psion and the wilder have learned to hone their minds into weapons capable of manifesting their merest whim, many Telekineticists find they are too specialised to manifest in the truest sense. Some few discover instead how to mimic the effects of certain powers through manipulation of their Hands. These few are known as Telekineticist Savants.

Change the Telekineticist's BAB to average progression (like a cleric). You are not as martially minded as other Telekineticists, but your understanding of your powers stretch to the abstract far more than most.

Warp Reality
Replaces: Medium Armour Proficiency, Martial Skill, Critical Thinking.
At 1st level you start to gain a number of Psi-Like abilities as you progress, determined by which discipline you choose to follow (listed below). Each ability requires a number of hands to be used, equal to the level of the power simulated. Hands used this way are considered used until the beginning of your next turn. Your manifester level is equal to your class level, and any saves run off your Charisma modifier.
1st level. Level 1 power, usable 3+ con modifier times per day.
3rd level. Level 2 power, usable 2+ con modifier times per day.
5th level. Level 3 power, usable 1+ con modifier times per day.
7th level. Level 4 power, usable con modifier times per day.
9th level. Level 5 power, usable con modifier -1 times per day.

Power Overwhelming
Replaces: Far Trick
At 4th level you gain the ability to augment your Warp Reality with additional hands. Each additional hand counts as 2 power points for this purpose. You begin being able to use only 1 additional hand in this way. You may use another additional hand for every 4 levels thereafter (2 extra at 8th, 3 at 12th, etc, to a maximum of 5 additional hands at 20th.)

Master of the Far Hand
Remove this line from the ability:
"You no longer take range penalties to your far tricks."
Add this line to the ability:
You always count as using at least two extra hands to augment your Warp Reality abilities, even if you chose not to spend additional hands to do so (so if you were to augment with 2 extra hands, you would count as having used 4 extra hands instead, if you choose not to augment at all, you still count as having done so with 2 hands.)

Below are listed the discipline power lists, you must select one at 1st level, and may never change this choice. If a power uses your Intelligence for a calculation, replace it with your Charisma. If a power requires a touch attack, you may use a Hand to deliver it at a range of 5ft/class level, as long as you have one free. Each discipline grants a class skill and another ability (much like a Cleric's domain)

The Beast (Psychometabolism)
Spoiler


The Traveller (Psychoportation)
Spoiler


The Mentalist (Telepathy)
Spoiler
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Last edited by Veklim : 03-06-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:18 PM   Top  -  End  -  #135
Kobold-Bard
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Does the Mentalist get Telepathy? Because I don't see it.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:53 PM   Top  -  End  -  #136
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

I will say this, from the skim if your acf, it looks solid. However I have no real intered in them so wont judge them until you are totally done with them lol.

But you still havent mentioned your thoughts on repulsion.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:30 AM   Top  -  End  -  #137
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
Does the Mentalist get Telepathy? Because I don't see it.
Not yet, no. I have rectified this with a feat though (because TKs need feats to have options, since very few standard feats help them much!).

Enhanced Discipline
Requirements: Level 1 Telekineticist with the TK Savant ACF
Benefits: You gain a +1 bonus to your psi-like abilities' save DCs, and their durations improve by 50%. You also gain an additional benefit depending upon which discipline you follow, as listed below:
The Beast: You gain scent
The Mentalist: You gain telepathy (limited to your TK range)
The Traveller: You gain fast movement (+10ft to all base speeds)
You must be psionically focused to gain these effects.
Special: This feat may only be taken at first level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerTollUdo View Post
But you still havent mentioned your thoughts on repulsion.
Looks good to me, the DC increase at the end of the first paragraph in Singularity should be +2 not +5 though, imo at least. +5/hand as a 19th level ability makes it a SoS with no hope of saving!
Singularity now has 2 functions, and they seem pretty balanced with each other, certainly not OP for a 19th level ability and it all makes sense. I don't see much of anything which needs tweaking with it just now, but if anything makes itself known I'll prod you
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Last edited by Veklim : 03-07-2012 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:07 AM   Top  -  End  -  #138
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Well good then. As for the change to +2 I had made that...guess I copy pastaed the wrong post lol. I'll repost with it in there, add in your ACF, and put a feat section so he can have it all in the first post.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:38 PM   Top  -  End  -  #139
Magikeeper
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

So, can a focused shield be created over a creature, like the energy wall power can? Either way the ability needs to state if you can/can't.

Also, a pure TK can deal 90d6 points of damage with that wall at level 10 - and that is assuming a +0 con mod (1 to maintain, 1 to change to d6/level, 8 additional d6/level). A regular TK with a con mod of +6 can do the same, although it would take all of their hands to do it.

Perhaps each extra hand spent to increase the damage could add +1d6 damage and +2 to the bullrush check. That promotes creating more walls instead of a single pseudo sphere of annihilation. Maybe make up the lost damage with some status effects.

Also, if you can form the wall around creatures you could create an infinite ping-pong situation where a creature is smacked around by two walls for infinite damage.

So maybe:
Spoiler

Last edited by Magikeeper : 03-08-2012 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:59 PM   Top  -  End  -  #140
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Spoiler


Ok, as stands current version of class...then Magikeeper found time to post, finally :P, and so he points out a super flaw...and I adopt his version of focused shield. Any objections? Also added to unarmed saying you can fluff your lightsabers however you please.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:25 PM   Top  -  End  -  #141
Turalisj
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Hey, this class looks interesting!

What's the current balance look for it? And would it be possible to use it for Pathfinder?
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:20 PM   Top  -  End  -  #142
bobthe6th
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

DerTrollUdo seems to be building a charicter with it, but I have yet to really play test the thing. (need to find a good way to do that for all my homebrew...)

PF... I don't know, but I think PF tries to make all classes T3? I think this class is around there, maybe T2 at level 20(combat reflexes, throw... or just shields...)
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:57 AM   Top  -  End  -  #143
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

I wouldn't put it into Tier 2. The tier system is based on versatility and tier1/2 are basically world/game breakers. The only thing i see in this class that could become such to an extent is force blast due to potentially ridiculous damage, everything else seems okay.
Mind you it'd still be a very powerful Tier 3. When compared to everything else in Tier 3 its probably close to taking over as alpha of the pack.

The other ACFs seem pretty good.
The Beast seems a bit out of place since the Telekineticist is mostly a ranged character, but it can work. Metamorphosis is awesome, especially if you can get more hands by changing into a high-con creature.
Traveller fits very well.

On the matter of my suggestion for Mental Strenght, I still like my version best (I know, what a shock). I'll post it here slightly modified.

Quote:
Each hand may move a mass of 50lb/lvl at a speed of 30' per round. For every increase of the weight that is to be moved, the maximum speed is reduced accordingly. Any resulting speed of less than 5'/rd means the object cannot be moved.
Example: Thomas, the third level Telekineticist has access to 4 hands and attempts to lift and transport the corpse of a large hill giant that his party has just slain. The hill giant weighs 600lb. One of Thomas' hands has a base capacity of 150lb at 30' at this point. this would allow him to move the hill giant at a speed of 5'/rd as the weight to move is 4 times the hand's base capability and as such he can only move it at quarter speed. In the same way, using 2 hands would allow him to pick up speed to 15'/rd and using all four would allow him to transport the giant at 30'/rd.
Special: Even if the mass is less than the base capacity of the assigned hands, movement may never exceed the Telekineticists base movemenet speed.
This movement is limited to a duration equal to the Telekineticist's wisdom modifier in rounds. After this time has passed, the hand's buckle under the pressure and the psychic backlash leaves the Telekineticist fatigued for 1d4 rounds. Once he is no longer fatigued, he may resume the movement. He may not use this ability if he is fatigued or exhausted.
If the mass does not exceed 25lb/lvl times the number of hands invested, the movement may be kept up indefinitely and the Telekineticist is not fatigued once he stops it.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:22 AM   Top  -  End  -  #144
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

This is definitely and firmly in the Tier 3 camp, it has a diverse set of abilities, heavy damage potential and a fair few choices, but it certainly lacks the awesome power/versatility of a tier 2 class. It is rather powerful for tier 3, but not excessively so as far as I can see. With regards to PF, what are the main differences compared to 3.5? This may well be fine for PF as long as too much hasn't changed, the TK stuff is pretty stand-alone for mechanically, so the chances of accidental oversight leading to horrific shenanigans shouldn't be too likely at all.

The Mental Strength debate is not going away is it?! I still prefer my option of keeping the 25ft (light load, sustainable) and 50ft (heavy load, limited) mechanic in place, and allowing 20ft movement at double heavy load, allowing for 10ft dragging at 5 times heavy load. Makes it all so much simpler than having to divide awkward numbers, round off to nearest 5ft increments and worrying about hasty calculations being wrong! This way it's all simple multiplication, adding hands just affects the total mass you can move so all you need do is add another to increase speed/load capability!

As far as the ACFs go, I made The Mentalist because of something Kobald-Bard said, and I really liked it so wanted to do more. The Traveller is perhaps my favourite, because it gives the TK a useful niche which sits well within the base theme of the class. The Beast is a little different, but then again I like the idea of giving a nature-themed ACF to these guys. They hold no alliegence to civilisation, magic or a god, there's no good reason to disallow a shiftery type nature bunny, and the addition of claw attacks means a whole new bunch of strategies could emerge. Playing any one of these ACFs should mean playing a whole new type of TK character, and that was my aim. I have 2 more to post tonight, keep eyes open!

Oh, DerTollUdo dude...still not got a feat section up on the latest class posting. I realise you ended up posting a whole ability fix so figured you'd probably just forgotten!
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:53 AM   Top  -  End  -  #145
Re'ozul
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Your mental strenght version is good as well.

Going with pure telekineticist it would allow 100,000lb / 10' drag at level 20.
mine would allow 120,000 / 5' at level 20. Overall yours is more streamlined and probably better for application.
Either version is absolutely okay with me as I just want to avoid the problem of having a too low ceiling on carrying capacity.

And now for a thought experiment.
You have two identical telekineticist.
Both attempt to move the other away from them/towards them ... what happens. Alternately one tries to move the other closer, the other tries to push him away...
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:04 PM   Top  -  End  -  #146
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Class:
Spoiler


ACFs:
Spoiler

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Old 03-08-2012, 01:13 PM   Top  -  End  -  #147
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

So, I was thinking, should I put a link in the class description to my last post for the currently in progress one? That way people viewing the class can jump to the most current version without having to check through a bunch of pages to make sure...I don't want to step on Bob's toes, just wanna keep the class updated when he isn't around.

Also, I modified the Mental Strength. I think it fixes all the dispute about it now and is clear and concise.

Also added into Unarmed that creating weapons is a move action. Should that stay?


EDIT:
So, the last post got too long. Magic Items and Feats will now be here.

Feats:
Spoiler


PrCs
Spoiler


Magic Items
Spoiler

Last edited by DerTollUdo : 04-29-2013 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:22 PM   Top  -  End  -  #148
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Quote:
And now for a thought experiment.
Both make a will save, whoever wins out gets their movement, the other is considered blocked. If it's a tie, I'd allow both sets of movement for an action, then get them to have another contest the next round. Thing is, a TK fighting another TK is always gonna get messy, they'd most likely resort to just force blasting and trying to drop things on each other I'd say. You do bring up a good point though, we need to rule in for stuff like that...

Quote:
I just want to avoid the problem of having a too low ceiling on carrying capacity.
I share that desire, certainly. I'd been fiddling with the carry loads for ages until I came up with my fix a few days ago after looking at one of my NPC character sheets. I saw the carry capacity boxes below gear and thought to myself 'I'm an idiot!'. This way you're not limited to either lifting it off the ground or not moving it at all, and it means really heavy stuff can be moved about, but not to the same extent.

OK, onto crunch stuff:

The Augur (Clairsentience)
Spoiler
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:27 PM   Top  -  End  -  #149
DerTollUdo
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

Added Augur.

As to the thought experiment, yeah they both make saves to fight...although why they are just trying to move each other is odd...FLING MARBLES!
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:31 PM   Top  -  End  -  #150
Veklim
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Default Re: Telekineticist (3.5 D&D, PEACH)<-really, you should.

You missed these 3 feats...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
TK Focus
Spoiler


TK Specialisation
Spoiler


TK Supremacy
Spoiler
Regarding latest edits, everything looks good to me except the requirements for Unarmed... they still have TK fighting, but they're meant to be the unarmed ones...
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