DC superhero "coming out"

[Traab]

Posting this article about DC's hype. It really has been overhyped a great deal.

That article had it dead on. With all the hype about iconic characters, I would have expected to see batman or superman or even wonder woman be gay, but this? It isnt even main dc universe.

[otakuryoga]

as foreseen..
they use an "iconic" character that really isn't since it isnt the current iteration of that character

[Zevox]

as foreseen..
they use an "iconic" character that really isn't since it isnt the current iteration of that character

It's not even that he's not "current," Alan Scott was never iconic. It's the space cop version of Green Lantern, specifically Hal Jordan, that made that character concept a major one for DC. Alan Scott just happens to have been the original that the space cops were based on. He shares a name and most of his powers with an actual iconic character, and that's it.

Zevox

[Man on Fire]

And the award for most offensive*, shameless, shallow marketing stun of the year goes to DC Comics. Your award is big pile of dog s***, you can eat it now.

*- I mean, no matter how I look at itI cannot imagine homosexuals not being offended by "Your iconinc gay character we promised you isn't really iconic and doesn't even live in the same Universe as anybody iconic, so it doesn't matter anyway" stun.

[Devonix]

*Slowclap*

Good job DC Remove one Gay character to instead de age his dad and make Him gay instead.


Instead of stories dealing with a person raised with different societal values having to come to terms with and accept a gay son who other than having a different sexual lifestyle, still wants to follow in his fathers footsteps.

They just do the "easier" story.


And the DC isn't more diverse by doing this. They haven't added a gay character, they've swapped

[Devonix]

No Obsidian and no Jade now...

Green lantern Mythos and DC at large has just gotten a bit less Epic.


Though to us JSA fans and Alan Scott is as Iconic as it gets. Him and Jay are the heart of the DCU or were for a lot or people.

Kyle had even proposed to Jade recently, something a lot of Green Lantern fans have been waiting years for... Effing Reboot!!!

[Zevox]

*Slowclap*

Good job DC Remove one Gay character to instead de age his dad and make Him gay instead.


Instead of stories dealing with a person raised with different societal values having to come to terms with and accept a gay son who other than having a different sexual lifestyle, still wants to follow in his fathers footsteps.

They just do the "easier" story.


And the DC isn't more diverse by doing this. They haven't added a gay character, they've swapped

Eeyup, sounds about right.

Though to us JSA fans and Alan Scott is as Iconic as it gets. Him and Jay are the heart of the DCU or were for a lot or people.

Well of course if you're a fan of the series he's from he's going to seem important, but take a step back for a minute there and think about what people mean when they say "iconic." They mean the big names that have infiltrated popular culture - Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, etc. Green Lantern is up there too, but the space cop version, mostly Hal Jordan and maybe arguably Kyle Rayner (John Stewart being the Justice League cartoon probably put him on the map a bit too, but definitely much less so than Hal). Can you honestly say you'd expect someone who doesn't read comics to have ever so much as heard of Alan Scott?

Kyle had even proposed to Jade recently, something a lot of Green Lantern fans have been waiting years for... Effing Reboot!!!

Er, when was this? Because it wasn't in any of the Green Lantern comics I've read, and I'm caught up from the Sinestro Corps War through the War of the Green Lanterns, plus just got my copy of the first of the New 52 arcs. Last I saw he had moved on from her and seemed pretty happy with Soranik Natu. There was a little tension right after her resurrection, but Jade pretty much gave them her blessing and that was that.

Zevox

[turkishproverb]

Well, not the character I would have chosen, but I see the logic. Could be fun.

[Devonix]

Eeyup, sounds about right.


Well of course if you're a fan of the series he's from he's going to seem important, but take a step back for a minute there and think about what people mean when they say "iconic." They mean the big names that have infiltrated popular culture - Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, etc. Green Lantern is up there too, but the space cop version, mostly Hal Jordan and maybe arguably Kyle Rayner (John Stewart being the Justice League cartoon probably put him on the map a bit too, but definitely much less so than Hal). Can you honestly say you'd expect someone who doesn't read comics to have ever so much as heard of Alan Scott?


Er, when was this? Because it wasn't in any of the Green Lantern comics I've read, and I'm caught up from the Sinestro Corps War through the War of the Green Lanterns, plus just got my copy of the first of the New 52 arcs. Last I saw he had moved on from her and seemed pretty happy with Soranik Natu. There was a little tension right after her resurrection, but Jade pretty much gave them her blessing and that was that.

Zevox

the Proposal happened in one of the GL double sized specials right around the time there was the story with Alan and that magic city being under attack. Even had this real nice scene with Alan and Kyle hanging out and training. Jade turned him down saying that it was too soon but that when they were both ready mabey.

[Devonix]

Eeyup, sounds about right.


Well of course if you're a fan of the series he's from he's going to seem important, but take a step back for a minute there and think about what people mean when they say "iconic." They mean the big names that have infiltrated popular culture - Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, etc. Green Lantern is up there too, but the space cop version, mostly Hal Jordan and maybe arguably Kyle Rayner (John Stewart being the Justice League cartoon probably put him on the map a bit too, but definitely much less so than Hal). Can you honestly say you'd expect someone who doesn't read comics to have ever so much as heard of Alan Scott?


Er, when was this? Because it wasn't in any of the Green Lantern comics I've read, and I'm caught up from the Sinestro Corps War through the War of the Green Lanterns, plus just got my copy of the first of the New 52 arcs. Last I saw he had moved on from her and seemed pretty happy with Soranik Natu. There was a little tension right after her resurrection, but Jade pretty much gave them her blessing and that was that.

Zevox

the Proposal happened in one of the GL double sized specials right around the time there was the story with Alan and that magic city being under attack. Even had this real nice scene with Alan and Kyle hanging out and training. Jade turned him down saying that it was too soon but that when they were both ready mabey.

[Zevox]

the Proposal happened in one of the GL double sized specials right around the time there was the story with Alan and that magic city being under attack. Even had this real nice scene with Alan and Kyle hanging out and training. Jade turned him down saying that it was too soon but that when they were both ready mabey.

Yeah, since with rare exceptions I don't read anything but the main Green Lantern comics, that doesn't really help me. In the context of the Green Lantern storyline, when would this be? Because like I said, it doesn't add up at all given what I saw in there, which makes me think it wasn't actually recent.

Zevox

[Devonix]

Yeah, since with rare exceptions I don't read anything but the main Green Lantern comics, that doesn't really help me. In the context of the Green Lantern storyline, when would this be? Because like I said, it doesn't add up at all given what I saw in there, which makes me think it wasn't actually recent.

Zevox

It was the same issue Jade got her new Green Lantern ring Lol It was an old issue. I found it. for some reason I thought it was after Jade came back... Oops. Though up till the Reboot the star sapphires still saw Jade in his heart as well as him still thinking of her while bing with Sora... I'm probably projecting though

[TheEmerged]

A good take on the issue, in my opinion.

Spoiler

Show

Reminds me of something I heard said about the baseball player Jackie Robinson. That is, that the best moment of his career wasn't when he was the first black player in the major leagues. It was when, later on, a black player signed with a major league team and nobody noticed.

[willpell]

Basically what they're doing is hedging their bets. "We're turning one of our characters gay!!!111!!! But if you have a problem with that, don't worry; it's not like it's one of our MOST famous characters, just some old-timer nobody was paying that much attention to before, so it's not really a big deal! But hey, everyone else: It's a big deal!"

Really, the gay thing is barely news in comics anymore. What I'm waiting for is kinky characters in comics. I wanna see them admit that Batman is a sadist who gets off on beating up people he thinks deserve it, and so repressed he doesn't even admit he's enjoying it.

[Dienekes]

Really, the gay thing is barely news in comics anymore. What I'm waiting for is kinky characters in comics. I wanna see them admit that Batman is a sadist who gets off on beating up people he thinks deserve it, and so repressed he doesn't even admit he's enjoying it.

You must love Garth Ennis.

And no, that's a terrible idea.

[willpell]

You must love Garth Ennis.

"Love" is a strong word. He's a talented writer who tends toward subjects I find depressing and who takes far more joy in the vulgar than I'd prefer. I'd put him a grade below Warren Ellis, who in turn is a grade below Grant Morrison, who in turn is a grade below Alan Moore. (Neil Gaiman and Bill Willingham seem like they need to go on a second, parallel ladder.)

And no, that's a terrible idea.

The whole kinky idea or just the Batman part? I'll admit he's probably too well-established as a good-guy for this to ever stick, and that I'm mostly thinking of the gritty postmodern Batman who isn't really the same character as the original Caped Crusader.

[Traab]

Basically what they're doing is hedging their bets. "We're turning one of our characters gay!!!111!!! But if you have a problem with that, don't worry; it's not like it's one of our MOST famous characters, just some old-timer nobody was paying that much attention to before, so it's not really a big deal! But hey, everyone else: It's a big deal!"

Really, the gay thing is barely news in comics anymore. What I'm waiting for is kinky characters in comics. I wanna see them admit that Batman is a sadist who gets off on beating up people he thinks deserve it, and so repressed he doesn't even admit he's enjoying it.

You should really read this fanfic one shot here You can get yer kinky bats that way.

[Dienekes]

The whole kinky idea or just the Batman part? I'll admit he's probably too well-established as a good-guy for this to ever stick, and that I'm mostly thinking of the gritty postmodern Batman who isn't really the same character as the original Caped Crusader.

I think it's a bad idea because no matter what version of Batman I feel like reading, the last thing I ever want to see is his "O" face as he's punching out the Joker.

[Man on Fire]

I think it's a bad idea because no matter what version of Batman I feel like reading, the last thing I ever want to see is his "O" face as he's punching out the Joker.

Bet there is at least one comics that drew him with that face.

Really, the gay thing is barely news in comics anymore. What I'm waiting for is kinky characters in comics. I wanna see them admit that Batman is a sadist who gets off on beating up people he thinks deserve it, and so repressed he doesn't even admit he's enjoying it.

Too bad it would completely destroy any drama Rogue has - once somebody introduces her to latex suits, her problems are over.

[Devonix]

Bet there is at least one comics that drew him with that face.



Too bad it would completely destroy any drama Rogue has - once somebody introduces her to latex suits, her problems are over.

Ehh Rogue never had any problems in the first place other than the writers making up stupid reasons for her to not be able to control her abilities when by every concieveable notion she should have been " Fixed " decades ago. Same thing goes for Scott.

Really with all of the alternatives available to these characters it allways bugged me that none of them were ever used.


Like Scott.
The reason he can't control his optic blasts is that he's got brain damage in the section that would allow him to control them... Well they've got how many X-men that have been capable of magically healling anything and anyone up to and including being dead???

or he could just use a power dampener hidden in a watch. Don't say that he wouldn't want to use tech to block his powers, as thats just what he does with his visor and glasses. just one little power dampner watch and he could walk out with his eyes uncovered 24 7 and just press the off switch when he wants to shoot out his eyebeams.

The same type of device could be used for Rogue whenever she wanted to be touched by someone, and don't say it wouldn't work on her, she's had her powers blocked by mutant collars and power dampening cells and places just as often as everyone else.

[CapnRedBeard]

I was thinking it'd be Robin too. Or perhaps Batman. When you get right down to it...it could've been anyone because sexuality and fighting crime/being a criminal are not connected at all. That's why it really is lame that in 2012 DC is trying to cash in and make it seem like a huge deal. These non-traditional societal background stories are only non-traditional due to the writers themselves. We should see super heroes reflect actual society. There should for example be hundreds of black and Asian super heroes. Not just token examples here and there to be "edgy." - my two cents

[DomaDoma]

Of all the black superheroes that come to my mind, Luke Cage is the only one who seems there to be "edgy". And he's cool regardless. But yeah, having a gay character just because they expect it to be shocking is the crux of their problem. The thing to do is 1) introduce a gay superhero with kickass, original character traits and 2) refrain from killing him off in a crossover event just because Batman has a larger fan following. Stagnation is the real bane of Marvel and DC.

(Creating a bunch of superheroes just so they could have the proper ratio of beans counted doesn't seem like it would lead to very good comics, though.)

[otakuryoga]

Alan Scott was never iconic.

Zevox

Can you honestly say you'd expect someone who doesn't read comics to have ever so much as heard of Alan Scott?

Zevox

true..but........

It's Green Lantern

Zevox

to a non-comic reader it is the 2nd one that counts

non reader will go "green lantern? i've heard of that guy..hey, didn't they just make a movie about him?"

[Man on Fire]

Ehh Rogue never had any problems in the first place other than the writers making up stupid reasons for her to not be able to control her abilities when by every concieveable notion she should have been " Fixed " decades ago. Same thing goes for Scott.

Really with all of the alternatives available to these characters it allways bugged me that none of them were ever used.


Like Scott.
The reason he can't control his optic blasts is that he's got brain damage in the section that would allow him to control them... Well they've got how many X-men that have been capable of magically healling anything and anyone up to and including being dead???

or he could just use a power dampener hidden in a watch. Don't say that he wouldn't want to use tech to block his powers, as thats just what he does with his visor and glasses. just one little power dampner watch and he could walk out with his eyes uncovered 24 7 and just press the off switch when he wants to shoot out his eyebeams.

The same type of device could be used for Rogue whenever she wanted to be touched by someone, and don't say it wouldn't work on her, she's had her powers blocked by mutant collars and power dampening cells and places just as often as everyone else.

Funny thing that recently they fixed both of them, explaining that their problems were psychosomatic. I think that Rogue's still stick (for now at least) but Cyclops was okay for one series and then everybody else returned to writing him as always with no explanation. That was also the time his balls started to grow to the point they become inteligent, took control over his body and are now leading the X-Men.

(Do we have general comic books thread? It would be better place for such discussions)

[willpell]

We should see super heroes reflect actual society. There should for example be hundreds of black and Asian super heroes. Not just token examples here and there to be "edgy." - my two cents

My pet theory on how to up the racial equality in DC comics: Barry "The Flash" Allen is black. Barry "The Flash" Allen has always been black; we at DC Comics are now correcting the unfortunate editorial oversight which failed to portray this. He is still exactly the same character, it's just that instead of being an ordinary whitebread American, he was an ordinary completely-naturalized African-American. (Whether the same should be true of Iris I'm not sure; making them an interracial couple is fine by my but undermines the "the artists didn't even think to question this" theory.)

[Zevox]

We should see super heroes reflect actual society. There should for example be hundreds of black and Asian super heroes.

The problem with that idea is that the majority of superheroes are long-established ones, with pretty much all of the big name ones created back in the golden or silver ages of comics, and of course with only a handful of exceptions characters created back then were white. New ones rarely attain more than minor popularity even among comic readers, with again rare exceptions such as Deadpool. Which makes a huge demographic shift in the characters like that extremely unlikely.

true..but........



to a non-comic reader it is the 2nd one that counts

non reader will go "green lantern? i've heard of that guy..hey, didn't they just make a movie about him?"

And then they'd see a picture of him and notice that he doesn't look a thing like the Green Lantern they're thinking of, and be quite confused on the whole thing.

Zevox

[AtlanteanTroll]

No, it really could not have been Batman or Robin. Not because such amazing heroes couldn't be gay, but considering there's been an alleged pedophile dynamic between the two since the 50s, making either gay would ultimately (and unjustly) play into some horrible theories. It'd be bad PR and the media (not even necessarily the nerd-media, but the actual media as well) would have a field day.

[CapnRedBeard]

My favorite black superhero was/is Bishop of xmen fame. I was very into comics when he was introduced. It also helped that Jim Lee was the artist at the time. They just did such a great job with him. Cool back story...great art...no whiny pc crud with his skin color. He wasn't the latest token black guy...he was simply awesome.

[Traab]

My favorite black superhero was/is Bishop of xmen fame. I was very into comics when he was introduced. It also helped that Jim Lee was the artist at the time. They just did such a great job with him. Cool back story...great art...no whiny pc crud with his skin color. He wasn't the latest token black guy...he was simply awesome.

Luke Cage on the other hand was frankly hilarious. Bishop was awesome, though honestly my experience with his character was the xmen cartoon series. Much like with storm, it was handled perfectly. His race rarely, if ever, was even mentioned, and it had no real bearing on the show at all. It was treated as no more important than his hair color.

[Phae Nymna]

no stahp dc, das gay

In other news, I approve. Wholeheartedly. If only Cpt. America were too?