Civilization 4 succession game: WAR!

[The_Final_Stand]

Yeah, see "specialisation" is one of those things I didn't know about, either how to specialise or what to. When Murska said "begin chopping down those jungles to give it some food to grow", I assumed that meant "Replace the Jungles with Farms", rather than just "Chop down the jungles".

In any case, I didn't actually get round to designating farms, so nothing was lost.

[Murska]

Always when building something on a Jungle, chop it down first and start the building after that's done. It takes exactly as long, but the Jungle will be gone halfway.

[happyturtle]

Also, first build in a new city should almost always be granary. Exceptions are seafood cities which might get a lighthouse first or cities that need a border pop ASAP which might get a monument first (not applicable with Creative Cathy, whose borders pop automatically).

Don't worry... Civ 4 is one of those great games with amazing replayability where you'll always be learning.

1. Happyturtle
2. Murska
3. The Final Stand
>>> 4. TerraOblivion Due by June 11<<<
5. Winthur

[Terraoblivion]

Actually, thinking about the discussion about how to get the Oracle. I wanted to check with everyone. While we have Marble and a good production city in our capital, it will set our research back some to go for it, especially since our commerce is hardly amazing. Not just that, building it will put both our construction of a defensive army and our expansion back some, so I'm not sure it's ultimately worth it in this situation and wanted to hear your thoughts on it.

[happyturtle]

I'm not opposed to skipping Oracle and focusing on Rexing. Failgold wouldn't suck if we missed Oracle, but if we wasted the beakers on poly and priesthood and then someone got Oracle before we even started it, that would suck.

We should probably try and work out what wonders we do want to go for, to have a strategy up front. Great Library?

[Terraoblivion]

Great Library is indeed a very useful one to go for, however, we'll need to see what our science looks like before committing to it. It is fairly deep down a side path we can put off for a while if we have more pressing concerns and we likely will if we do science slowly.

[Murska]

I like getting Oracle anyway mainly because if we do get it, we can sell Metal Casting to AIs for techs because they never research it.

[Terraoblivion]

Just skip me, the last few days have been busier than expected. Together with poor sleep and concentration I haven't really been able to focus on playing. Sorry for the delay everyone.

[happyturtle]

1. Happyturtle
2. Murska
3. The Final Stand
4. TerraOblivion
>>> 5. Winthur Due by June 15<<<

No problem, Terra. Winthur, you're up.

[Winthur]

I got the save, expect my turnset later today. So far we aren't looking so bad but I'm planning to get our economy on as tight of a rope as possible.

[Murska]

Hm. I was expecting, but I got disappoint.

[happyturtle]

I guess we need to skip Winthur. And I'm neck deep with RL stuff, so I'm going to pass too. Now if Murska and Stand pass too, we'll have managed to pass our entire playerbase.

1. Happyturtle
>>> 2. Murska Due by June 21<<<
3. The Final Stand
4. TerraOblivion
5. Winthur

[Murska]

Woo! I'm actually not busy at all but I'll make the pass anyway!

If it comes another round, I'll grab it.

[happyturtle]

*stabs* Play the game, Dad.

[The_Final_Stand]

Wait, what?
Did... did everyone just pass..?

[Murska]

Now it's your turn to pass!

Eh, but I was hoping someone with actual expertise would come take responsibility and build something up so I didn't have to bother actually thinking about what I'm doing...

[Winthur]

Now it's your turn to pass!

Eh, but I was hoping someone with actual expertise would come take responsibility and build something up so I didn't have to bother actually thinking about what I'm doing...

I was busy doing my writeup just now. ._."

I know I'm more likely to be late than get laid, but...

[The_Final_Stand]

That is exactly what I was hoping would happen. Except to me.
I have nothing going on at the moment, but I played last time, and I have no idea what to do strategywise. Or tacticswise.

Can I pass as well then?

THREAD ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED: Hot Potato.
Went an entire turn cycle with no one actually playing.

[happyturtle]

I was busy doing my writeup just now. ._."

I know I'm more likely to be late than get laid, but...

Yay!

[Winthur]

Initial Overview:
-I wasn't too sure about Sailing. None of our neighbors are connected to us. Granted, the commerce boost was nice, but I don't think we're going for Great Lighthouse and whatever issues we had with lack of trade routes could have been alleviated with...
-...more Workers, we only have 4 for a 5-city empire.

If I were playing those last few saves, I would focus on getting out more Workers and Settlers. It doesn't matter if we were.

We do have a few Axemen, but without promotions they can't even take the barbarian cities without several estimated losses. That, and Arabian Salad is already walking through our lands with his Archers. Archers can't take cities at all, but let's say he does get the barb cities killed and we have a Polish Corridor situation. Until beyond the age of gunpowder.

I'm not sure if we really need Barracks at the moment if we could just get more Workers, Settlers and Pylons.

So the real question is!


I'm gonna try get us back on expanding and backfilling the land down south. For what it's worth we should be able to settle it fast in the event our enemies should be so bold and so foolish to consider smuggling settlers past our Open Bordesrs agreement.

Codex Astartes calls this maneuver "Settler Spam". We will chop our trees, we will whip our people, we will live none alive! Meanwhile our diplomats will ensure the safety of our borders from our neighbors.

While singing "Katiusha".

Turn 1: I figure I can't really do anything except let the Barracks finish and the Sailing research. It actually bolsters our economy because we just didn't have roads because we had a worker shortage. Not sure if it was worth spending the research.

Turn 2: Oh, I just noticed Rostov is building an Archer instead of Granary. No no no.

I skip turns while having an epiphany that we are actually playing on Epic speed which means that no... cities... have... whip... unhappiness...

Turn 3: WHIP AND TEAR! WHIP AND TEAR YOUR POP!

YOU ARE HUGE! THAT MEANS YOU HAVE HUGE POP!

Turn 4: WHIP AND TEAR!!!!!!!! Moscow and The Pub get whipped.

Turn 5: Workers! Any overflow goes into Settlers, but overall I make sure that the cities grow back. Moscow starts a Swordsman, because we will want to take down the barbarian city in the Southwest.

Turn 6: Production here, production there.

Turn 7: Workers finished naturally, Settlers queued up next in St Petersburg.

Turn 8: *twiddling thumbs*

Turn 9: I whip a Settler in St. Petersburg.

Turn 10: Writing finished, I queue up Libraries in cities that aren't busy on Workers, Granaries, or Settlers.

Turn 11: I hooked up Ivory with our brand new Workers.

For the rest of the turnset nothing really noteworthy happens. Pay attention to which cities are whipped and which are not. We need more scouts in the southern part of the land.

A Settler-Axeman party has been sent down to found the city of Borealum by the marker that I've put down on the map.

Played 15 turns overall. Save here.

[Murska]

Well, if Winth posts his turn I suppose I can play the next one.

[happyturtle]

Oh, I just realized Winthur posted.

I'm still full of RL and passing. Your turn, Murska.

1. Happyturtle
>>> 2. Murska Due by June 23<<<
3. The Final Stand
4. TerraOblivion
5. Winthur

[Murska]

So, I played 20 turns mainly because I forgot to count and also because I wanted to make some progress in developing our lands.

First things first:

Spoiler

Show

This city is new to me.


This, on the other hand, looks very promising.

I decided that it's time to start upgrading our Power so that the Mongols choose Saladin instead of us when they decide to go to war. Also because many of our cities have little to nothing else to do - they build workers or swordsmen because we don't have much gold and we've already settled much of what's worthwhile.

Spoiler

Show

Our lone existing swordsman heads over and takes out this annoying city, earning a new nickname.


Meanwhile this situation keeps getting more promising.

I try and get a swordsman up to the northern barb city in time, but my timing is off as he reaches it when there's three archers in the city, and next turn there's none as the Mongol army runs it over.

Spoiler

Show

Oh dear.

Sometime around here we finish Alphabet, figure out that nobody wants to trade us much of anything, sign Open Borders with everyone except the Mongols and start on Currency.

Then finally, on the last turn...

Spoiler

Show

This happens.

Some statistics:

Spoiler

Show

This is what I did most of my turn.


And here's our situation right now. Not too bad.

Also, I forgot to screenshot a new city I built, which is a bit precariously extended into the Malinese Empire. I'm hoping that the settler on the way will backfill and connect Ulm to the rest of our land before the Mali get there.

Here's the save.

[The_Final_Stand]

So, what are the objectives? We have plenty of cities, but our budget and science department look like they need work. When it becomes possible, I think I shall build Markets in the richer cities.

You said you wanted Ulm connected with a settler. Where do you want the next city to go?

And do we really need so many cities? Maintaining them is the biggest drain on our resources at the moment. Followed by Civics, but we can't do anything about that except change back from Slavery, which would get us 2 more gold per turn.

[Murska]

Having cities means having production, population, commerce and research. Those are pretty important in the long run.

[The_Final_Stand]

It also means we have neither commerce, nor research in the short run. I have no idea how you recover from that, since Research -> Buildings that make Money -> Money -> Research in my mind.

In short, this is almost certainly me being terrible at Civ again.

[Murska]

Buildings very rarely make money. Mostly they give a percentage boost to your commerce income from the cities. If you have a lot of cities, you have a lot of commerce income and therefore your percentage-based boosts are going to be way more effective once you get there. Also, cities mean production, and production means armies which in most games (though not this one) means conquest.

In general, good city sites pay for themselves pretty quickly unless they're ridiculously far away from your empire, especially for expanionist civs like ourselves.

[tyckspoon]

It also means we have neither commerce, nor research in the short run. I have no idea how you recover from that, since Research -> Buildings that make Money -> Money -> Research in my mind.

In short, this is almost certainly me being terrible at Civ again.

It mostly comes down to competing with the AIs; they don't give a frak about their income, they just keep spamming out cities. And this game is sharing a continent with at least 3 AI civs.. which means, at least in the early game, that you have to spam out cities too, because if you take it too slow than when you decide you *are* ready to expand you'll find 2 AI cities already crowding out the space you wanted to use. And then they decide your glorious 3 or 4 really well-placed, well developed cities with technology they don't have yet look *really yummy*, and they declare war on you. And then their 8 crummy cities that were just dropped wherever the minimum city spread distances would let them place them overwhelm you with their production capacity..

Slow expansion is a luxury for players who got to spawn onto a private island (or took over their neighbor/s on said island.)

[happyturtle]

As our cottages develop, our income from tiles will improve. As our cities get larger, the trade routes get more lucrative. Eventually we'll get courthouses built which will reduce maintenance costs.

The expansionist phase of an empire always leads to the research slider going down until the new cities start paying for themselves. If nobody has anything to trade us, then we're at the top of the tech food chain, so we can afford it.

Generally when I'm expanding, I will let the slider go as low as 20 or 30% before slowing down. If I'm micromanaging carefully, I'll even let it go lower.

[Eldariel]

It also means we have neither commerce, nor research in the short run. I have no idea how you recover from that, since Research -> Buildings that make Money -> Money -> Research in my mind.

In short, this is almost certainly me being terrible at Civ again.

Generally you:
- Get cities.
- Build up cities.
- Get your first Great Scientist.
- Designate a Commerce city.
- Get Academy and stuff in a good Commerce city (preferably a future Bureaucracy capitol too).
- Beeline technologies and trade around.
- Mostly build research improvements, try to keep research gauge at 100% and trade techs for gold + build Wealth to keep up the research (this way you save the costs of all the money-providing improvements)
- Ignore techs you aren't gonna use (common candidates; Sailing-line, Archery, Horseback Riding, Divine Right) and go straight for the big ones you desire (particularly stuff that gives you free things, most notably Liberalism, and any wonders or such you're gonna go for).

In other words, you save in city improvements where you can, focus on commerce only on few cities well suited for it and get all the relevant improvements in those, focus all the "beakers" (that is, cities' commerce output that can go to money, research or culture) on research and use trades & selective tech beelining to only get what you need.