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2012-06-20, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Insects and some mollusks use a fluid called hemolymph instead of blood, the difference being that hemolymph is not contained in a closed circulatory system. In most insects, this "blood" does not contain oxygen-carrying molecules such as hemoglobin because their bodies are small enough for their tracheal system to suffice for supplying oxygen.
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2012-06-20, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Correct, they have a substance called Hemolymph that effectively acts as blood. Crazy side note, they don't have dedicated hearts (as compared to a vertebrate). Their hearts are outside of their (or at least, what would be their) circulatory system and is more akin to a stomach, as it churns out pre-digested nutrients, it creates high and low pressure within the exoskeleton forcing Hemolymph to circulate, and distributing mostly sugars through the body.
Further more, it's not just a matter of breathing, but also heat distribution. Larger beetles, like Stag beetles for example, are under debate if their wings can really be called Vestigial, as lifting the wings helps cool off the abdomen and keep them from over heating.
And lets not get into anchoring space for the muscles on an exoskeleton and the exponential higher food intake necessary to keep the overall very inefficient insect model up and running... (lets just mention that there is a reason insects tend to be omnivorous and voracious, and that Spiders are largely successful due their ability to wait motionless for extreme periods of a time.)
Edit: Swordsage'dLast edited by Toy Killer; 2012-06-20 at 04:46 PM.
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2012-06-20, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Long story short:
Insect anatomy is quite different from ours, and does not scale up well.
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2012-06-20, 07:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
I could argue you're simplifying the mechanic, because it includes everything from dropping their weapon to hitting the wrong target to failing to reload to tripping to any number of dumb mistakes. I actually find 450 still reasonable out of 180,000 people. People are inherently fallible.I think your math is off. I only see any level fighter having 1.5 critical mistakes in an hour. Which, again, makes sense to me.
Regardless, I agree any crit. fail mechanic would be hard-pressed to be realistic, but it makes one damn good storytelling and drama element.Last edited by Gnomish Wanderer; 2012-06-20 at 08:17 PM.
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2012-06-20, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Does it make sense to you that a Wizard in the same hour would be mathematically less likely to have your 1.5 critical mistakes in an hour spent attacking a practice dummy with a dagger than the Fighter? Because, given the way iterative attacks progress, the Wizard's smaller number of attacks than the Fighter's will produce that expected result.
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2012-06-20, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Oh, right, that's where he was coming up with 6 misses, I didn't think about extra attacks. *shrugs* You both have a sound argument there, but I like the mechanic nonetheless. Like I continued to say in that last message, it serves its use as a dramatic element far better than as a realistic element.
Gnomish Decker by me! You can find more of my work here!!! Also, my Tumblr, if you're into that
SpoilerYou fell for my firewall, chummer
The data highways are infinite and I've info left to tread
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2012-06-20, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-21, 02:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Skill checks (such as drive) are not subject to fumble rule except by houserule
Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure.Last edited by only1doug; 2012-06-21 at 02:39 AM.
Doug
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2012-06-21, 03:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Which means that any task which has a DC of 1 + your ranks in a skill is impossible to fail at unless a circumstance penalty applies. Nine ranks means you can complete all routine tasks to perfection every time. The implications of this are almost as interesting as those of a flat 20% failure chance.
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2012-06-21, 05:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
I'd hope so, nine ranks implies a 6th level character who has spent every level focusing skillpoints on that skill, they ought to be able to do it correctly everytime (barring problems, which could be represented by circumstance penalty).
I haven't failed to tie up my shoe's correctly for many years, except when I was really tired (circumstance penalty) or distracted (circumstance penalty).
in RL people can do a task repeatedly for most of their life and make very few errors (production line manufacturing), errors do occur because people still go into work when ill (circumstance penalty) or hung over (circumstance penalty) and repeating a task endlessly is dull, resulting in lapses of concentration (circumstance penalty).Doug
Currently GMing :
Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
Moonshae Tales IC / OOC / Map
Map of Area
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2012-06-21, 07:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insect#...latory_systems
Peristalsis, apparently.
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2012-06-21, 07:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-21, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Apologies, I misspoke - you don't need nine ranks, you need nine points of bonus. A 2nd-level Illumian character who maxes an attribute and devotes half his power word to it will have +6, so he needs only three skill ranks, which is just barely enough that he can't do it cross-class until the next level. But in all his class skills, if he can spare 3 out of the 5 ranks he can have in the skill, he's incapable of failing everyday applications. Elves and the like can hit +5 so they need only 4 ranks, and that's possible first level. Only humans and the like, with attributes no better than 18, are incapable of rendering a task "solved" at 2nd level, and even they can do it if they can buy a masterwork tool.
I haven't failed to tie up my shoe's correctly for many years, except when I was really tired (circumstance penalty) or distracted (circumstance penalty).
in RL people can do a task repeatedly for most of their life and make very few errors (production line manufacturing), errors do occur because people still go into work when ill (circumstance penalty) or hung over (circumstance penalty) and repeating a task endlessly is dull, resulting in lapses of concentration (circumstance penalty).
Much as I like Skill Focus, it does cost a feat, so you have to really want it.
14 in relevant stat and +1 competence item (100gp)Last edited by willpell; 2012-06-21 at 08:22 AM.
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2012-06-21, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
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2012-06-21, 08:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
If they focus on the task or are inherently suited for it. I see no real problem with that
I'd argue that something attacking you will focus your mind greatly, unless it is no threat. If your PCs are spending all day hitting stuff that isn't dangerous to them then yes, give a penalty to attack rolls.Last edited by only1doug; 2012-06-21 at 08:08 AM.
Doug
Currently GMing :
Moonshae Mysteries IC / OOC / Central Map / west rooms map / east rooms map
Moonshae Tales IC / OOC / Map
Map of Area
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2012-06-21, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Makes sense if you are going to do something a lot.
According to pricing guidelines in DMG p 285. magic item giving +1 competence bonus to a specific skill costs 100gp. A reasonable price to make work more effective.
You meant grow peas With everyone, right
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2012-06-21, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
I thought the standard was 50 gp. for a +2? Some of the ones in the PHB are more, and a lot of them have charges, but only the Alchemist's Lab is north of 100.
You meant grow peas With everyone, right
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2012-06-21, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Masterwork tools from PHb give +2 circumstance bonus. Custom magic item giving +1 competence bonus to a skill (according to guidlines in DMG) costs 100gp. But they stack
Huh didn't notice it till now... hmm I'm pretty sure the domain shouldn't be .gr ...
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2012-06-21, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Wait, magic items? Okay, I definitely have to reread that section. The virtual nonexistence of non-consumable magic items below 1000 gp has been a thorn in my side for some time.
Huh didn't notice it till now... hmm I'm pretty sure the domain shouldn't be .gr ...
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2012-06-21, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
If the fighter is practicing striking and resetting more rapidly? Yes. And 6 major mistakes (anything that takes time to recover from outside of resetting your stance) over the course of an hour is bloody low for intensive training. Which should have a lower rate than combat where you have to deal with the whole enemy moving and trying to foul up your actions, plus your whole system working at a higher rate. A 1-2% rate of mistakes like dropping your sword, having your blade turn in hand causing you to need to reset your grip, slipping do to poor weight placement/terrain and such actually seems about right for all but the most skilled and disciplined fighters.
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2012-06-21, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Reloading doesn't use a check in 3.5. Hitting the wrong target is still hitting. Tripping is preposterous to even include in the situation. So no, I'm not simplifying anything - critical failure beyond the standard "you automatically miss" is punishing mundanes for absolutely no reason.
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2012-06-21, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-06-21, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
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2012-06-21, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Sorry, I didn't make that completely clear. I was referring to the transport of nutrients within insects, not oxygen transport.
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2012-06-21, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
And yet, a Wizard could cast, read Scrolls, or use a Wand or Staff for that entire time with nary a mishap. So could a Cleric. That's not troubling?
Moving to mundanes, let's take a TWF based Fighter, and a TWF based Rogue. Which one is going to make more mistakes, mathematically, in an hour of combat training: the one who is trained to fight, or the trained sneak whose combat training is "hit hard, hit fast, get the hell outta Dodge"? Curiously, the Fighter is more likely to have problems handling his weapon than the Rogue is.
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2012-06-21, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)
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2012-06-21, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
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2012-06-21, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
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2012-06-21, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
I consider hitting a different target (which is always either a hazardous terrain item like a nearly felled tree or an ally) or being tripped a valid use of a double crit. fail under my houserule system, I don't see why they wouldn't be. And reload was a specific instance in regards to old timey rifles, which aren't exactly the easiest things in the world to reload, so have no bearing besides in your example.
As I've said (this being the third time) 'absolutely no reason' is also known as interesting storytelling and increasing dramatic elements to a story, which is important enough in my games to include the double crit. fail houserule.Last edited by Gnomish Wanderer; 2012-06-21 at 06:29 PM.
Gnomish Decker by me! You can find more of my work here!!! Also, my Tumblr, if you're into that
SpoilerYou fell for my firewall, chummer
The data highways are infinite and I've info left to tread
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2012-06-21, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: "Wait, that didn't work right" - the Dysfunctional Rules Collection
I've played in some LARPs before, and I can say critical misses are not one in twenty, but critical fumbles might be one in four hundred. Not that I count.
Does it count as a critical fumble if I charge somebody, trip over a root, go into a roll, kill somebody else in the process of my roll, and come out unscathed? Or do I just have Prone Attack or Back on Your Feet?Jude P.