OOTS #870 - The Discussion Thread

[Dr. Gamera]

Two Malack quotes of interest, in retrospect, that don't seem to have been mentioned yet:

• "Stop flapping your flat-toothed mouth for one minute!!" in OOTS #854, Not Much Chance of That (though I realize that non-vampiric lizardfolk also have pointed teeth.)
• "- are simply not disposable like that!" in OOTS #858, Actually, She Did.

Edited to add: Of course a desert is a very useful place to live for a creature that cannot cross running water.

[Goldfly]

Or Malack decides to free him. I can totally see Malack disowning his new vampire child due to his behaviour

Yeah, that's possible. Now that I think about it, it's possible that Malack is against controlling undead (or his children in particular), and would free Belkar regardless... *ponders*

So do standard vampires- if the victim has enough hit dice, and if they use blood drain rather than energy drain.

Yeah, that's true. Realistically, he could be either a standard Vampire or a Vampire Lord, as they're both OGL content.

[BannedInSchool]

No, no, he's turning him into a fish!

[ReaderAt2046]

I think one of the points with this is that Redcloak is wrong. At least partially. You can control an undead creature, but you can control a living one too. Redcloak using trickery to point Xykon in the direction he wants him to go is manipulation and control that he would use on a living Xykon as well. The Wights could be controlled with a spell, but they were weak...and wouldn't it be much the same if, say, Tsukiko had a bunch of human minions and Redcloak had used a Dominate Person spell to order them to kill her too?

THANK YOU!!! I've been wondering for MONTHS why nobody else realizes this!

[Neopolis]

So honeslty the logical conclusion was "Ok, it's more likely that he is not a vampire, instead of assuming he is a vampire with a homebrewed item that makes him immune to sunlight and hides his speechbubbles".

There is actually an oil that protects you from sun, it's in Libris Mortis. The black speech bubbles, hm, I don't know.

[SaintRidley]

There is actually an oil that protects you from sun, it's in Libris Mortis. The black speech bubbles, hm, I don't know.

It's possible that the wavy-ness of his bubbles indicates a great deal of effort in concealing his natural voice.

I'm sure we'll be able to read this better once we're further into the story.

[Goldfly]

There is actually an oil that protects you from sun, it's in Libris Mortis. The black speech bubbles, hm, I don't know.

He could just have some control over his voice- Eugene did, so it's certainly plausible.

[Sunken Valley]

Well I gotta admit I did not see that coming...


The problem here is: Yes there were lots of indications that Malack was a vampire. But there was at least one thing that contradicted it. In D&D vampires that are exposed to the sun for more than two rounds are destroyed. No save. Just poof. Ash.
The speech bubbles were another indicator that he was not a vampire or undead.

So honeslty the logical conclusion was "Ok, it's more likely that he is not a vampire, instead of assuming he is a vampire with a homebrewed item that makes him immune to sunlight and hides his speechbubbles".

Because if you argue with "has a homebrewed item that allows him to do X" you can basically argue every single theory.
Oh maybe Tsukiko is still alive because she made herself a custom homebrewed item that raises her as a ghost or reincarnates her, or maybe she was a lich all along and just had a magic item that hid that from everyone. Including the other lich. And clearly her Xykon doll was her phylactery.
Also Miko is clearly coming back, because you know homebrew magic item that gives her back all her paladin powers after raising her from the dead. Also she's really Jirax in disguise. Haven't you see how he only showed up after Miko supposedly "died"?

So to be honest I'm a little bit disappointed that Malack did turn out to be a vampire after all.

This. This so much. Imagine if rich pulled something like this with mitd.

Although speech bubbles dont concern me. Sabine has normal speech bubbles.

[Reathin]

And there I was, thinking that Malak being a vampire was too obvious to consider and that Belkar's undeath transition theory was mostly wishful thinking. Not that I want Belkar to die as such (I still find him entertaining quite a bit). Vampirism works better than most other forms of undeath for him and doesn't remove the drama of his death quite so much. So yeah, I'm okay with this.

I do pity Malak a bit though. Powerful as he is, I suspect he doesn't know what he's getting himself into.

[Doxkid]

I've been hoping that Malack would be a vampire.

Unfortunately, there is still that slight chance that this is an elaborate Albino-Lizardfolk mating ritual.

[SaintRidley]

Although speech bubbles dont concern me. Sabine has normal speech bubbles.

Sabine's also a shapeshifter, which should be a consideration when bringing her in for comparison.

[Dr.Epic]

So wait, he actually was a vampire?! How was I supposed to know? He didn't sparkle.

I apologize for that.

Also, does this mean Belkar can finally be useful (in combat)?

[Rakoa]

Because if you argue with "has a homebrewed item that allows him to do X" you can basically argue every single theory.

Well, if anyone has played the "Expedition to Castle Ravenloft" adventure (and you really, really should have) then Malack could just be linked to the Dayheart...

Or, there is Liquid Night oil found in Libris Mortis. Keeps you safe from the sun for 1 hour. Super sun screen, that is. And speech bubbles are not something that can be legitimately argued.

[ReaderAt2046]

Also, maybe Malack is against creating regular undead (zombies or mummies or such) because he finds mindless undead an offense to Nergal, but he considers free-willed undead as equal (or maybe even superior), to regular positive-aligned entities.

[DougTheHead]

*reads comic*

*reads title*
*starts laughing*

So he really is a vampire...
Also, back in 764:
"And Tarquin keeps telling me that if I want more children so badly, I should just find the right person and get to it, but...I don't know."
Have you ever considered adoption? Surely your political climate produces no shortage of orphans.
"Yes, but I'm worried about not having that, you know, special bond."

*never stops laughing*

Also, Belkar's gonna have a totally bitchin' facial scar now.

[asdflove]

Remind me to never read OotS with my cat on my lap.
He did not appreciate it when I yelled "HOLY S***" at that last panel.
Ow.

I honestly never saw this coming. At all. In the slightest.

[Roland Itiative]

The speech bubbles don't necessarily specify being undead (or fiendish, in Sabine's case), but sounding undead/fiendish. Since vampires and specially succubi are supposed to be able to blend in with other humanoids, it makes perfect sense that their voices are not identifiable as inhuman.

[SavageWombat]

In Ravenloft at the very least, there is a spell that allows an undead (specifically intended for vampires iirc) to take on the appearance of a living creature by giving up his undead superpowers.

Assuming Rich is using a similar spell, Malack would be able to endure sunlight and such by giving up his draining touch, etc. - so he'd have to end the spell to turn Belkar.

Also don't forget that he has to drain Belkar's CON 1d4 at a time - it's still possible to rescue him. We really need to wait and see.

[ReaderAt2046]

"And Tarquin keeps telling me that if I want more children so badly, I should just find the right person and get to it, but...I don't know."

You know, that sounds a lot creepier now that I know what it means.

[AdInfinitum]

I so did not see that coming. Holy...

Kudos.

[CoffeeIncluded]

You know, I wonder when Malack was turned, and how long he's been a vampire. It's clear that the rest of his semi-retired adventuring party knows, which means that if he got turned or the rest of the group found out partway through their adventures, they still considered Malack a friend and comrade, and probably took time to accommodate for his "condition." (I'll bet they made accommodations for Tarquin when Nale was a little kid too.) I wouldn't be too surprised if, when they had gone long enough without killing enemies that Malack couldn't feed, one of them sighed and held out a wrist. For Malack's part, even though he's now a vampire and can drain the others dry, then enslave them, he won't, because Tarquin and the others are still his friends.

It's a real contrast to the dynamics of Team Evil, and I wonder how the Order will respond to a vampire Belkar...I wonder how Belkar will respond as well.

[Mandrake]

The speech bubbles don't necessarily specify being undead (or fiendish, in Sabine's case), but sounding undead/fiendish. Since vampires and specially succubi are supposed to be able to blend in with other humanoids, it makes perfect sense that their voices are not identifiable as inhuman.

This, precisely.

Basically, and I'm not an expert here, they have never encountered an undead creature that can pretend to be a living creature - a lich, a wight, a mummy, a zombie, fine, but all of those scream I'm freakin' undead! miles away. A vampire is not distinguishable from an ordinary humanoid, as we well know from all the vampire balls we've been on. He sounds living, he acts living, he drinks blood on occasion, that's it.
Rich did nothing wrong, and by it I mean also that he did not cut short on info, since this should not be given, anyway.

[rgrekejin]

Well... I did not see that coming. I'm going to be honest, that Malack turned out to be a vampire afterall is a little disappointing, not that anyone else probably cares. It feels like a little bit too much misdirection was used to keep us from guessing up until now. It's weird for the reasonable contingent of the forum to be so fabulously wrong, and the crackpot theory contingent so astoundingly correct.

Whereas I had previously considered the case on Belkar's prophecy to be completely closed, shut, and airtight, I guess that is now wide open again too. Unless Belkar somehow escapes vampirification in the next strip, he'll be undead, and, as long as he isn't raised after the end of the in-comic year, would fulfill the green-light portion of the Oracle's prophecy about his death anyway. That said, there is still enough other Oracle-related hints that the Belkster may end up just plain ol' dead soon to make me wonder.

[WindStruck]

Really, there is a difference between guessing that maybe an extremely experienced and wealthy character could own a "homebrew" item that is a bit stronger than a typical magical item in the lists or even permanent.... and pulling random item concepts that turn characters into chuck norris - especially with no plausible explanation as to how they were acquired - out of one's ass.

[Dr.Epic]

You know, maybe Malack isn't a vampire. Maybe he's his own original undead template: a blampire.

[urandom]

I kinda doubt Malack is a vampire lord - he's pale (unlike vampire lords), and he apparently used control winds instead of vampire lord flight here.

Hmm, I rather thought that walking around in sunlight, and no character noticing that he doesn't have a shadow was decent evidence that he wasn't a vampire. The speech bubble change is interesting. I wonder if it just means that characters have control over their voices, and Malack didn't sound undead until he let that side out. Still kinda disappointing because it adds an exception to something that was previously consistent. Hopefully we'll get a more complete explanation.

[Mandrake]

Also, I am

EXTREMELY AGGREVATED

by the fact that there has been exactly ZERO talk on what is Belkar thinking and feeling right now.

[Mike Havran]

I wouldn't be too surprised if, when they had gone long enough without killing enemies that Malack couldn't feed, one of them sighed and held out a wrist.

Do vampires actually need to drink blood to sustain themselves? Can't they live unlive without it?

[DougTheHead]

Originally Posted by Morquard
Well I gotta admit I did not see that coming...


The problem here is: Yes there were lots of indications that Malack was a vampire. But there was at least one thing that contradicted it. In D&D vampires that are exposed to the sun for more than two rounds are destroyed. No save. Just poof. Ash.
The speech bubbles were another indicator that he was not a vampire or undead.

So honeslty the logical conclusion was "Ok, it's more likely that he is not a vampire, instead of assuming he is a vampire with a homebrewed item that makes him immune to sunlight and hides his speechbubbles".

Because if you argue with "has a homebrewed item that allows him to do X" you can basically argue every single theory.
Oh maybe Tsukiko is still alive because she made herself a custom homebrewed item that raises her as a ghost or reincarnates her, or maybe she was a lich all along and just had a magic item that hid that from everyone. Including the other lich. And clearly her Xykon doll was her phylactery.
Also Miko is clearly coming back, because you know homebrew magic item that gives her back all her paladin powers after raising her from the dead. Also she's really Jirax in disguise. Haven't you see how he only showed up after Miko supposedly "died"?

So to be honest I'm a little bit disappointed that Malack did turn out to be a vampire after all.

Again, Vampire Lords can survive sunlight. Rich isn't responsible for your ignorance of D&D class features. Vampires have always been able to survive sunlight, ever since Bram Stoker wrote Dracula. Count Dracula is constantly walking around in sunlight, and he's only a little temporarily weakened. Probably the same thing happens with Malack, who appears weak in the sunlight but is proving resourceful in the darkness of the dungeon.

[Math_Mage]

Side note, the interaction between Malack's presumed predilection to bite on the neck and Belkar's massively oversized head is hilarious.