Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!

[Kish]

Huh? How would Celia have known what Xykon did or didn't cast over the Dungeon of Dorukan after she left it?

[hamishspence]

For Celia to know the "the field was back" implies that it came back while she was still residing in Dorukan's dungeon.

And she left the dungeon before the fight with Xykon.

[137beth]

But what about ways to become immune to pure divine damage, which constitutes half of a flame strike's damage?

Do we actually know that he didn't take damage from the flame strike? Belkar said he had protection from fire, but not that he didn't take any damage.

[Kish]

No, we don't.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Do we actually know that he didn't take damage from the flame strike? Belkar said he had protection from fire, but not that he didn't take any damage.

He just looks unscathed is all.

[137beth]

Could we list Miko has having zero ranks in Knowledge (What the Hell You're Talking About)?

[Living Oxymoron]

Since we're apparently nit-picking, Celia's statement doesn't say in any way that he mastered the spell BEFORE the Order showed up, just that he did. It even could imply that he mastered it after Celia knew him - i.e. after the Redmountain adventure.

I think the fact he is holding the soul gem in that panel in which he appears is evidence enough to imply that not only he is epic in that moment, but also that he mastered the spell right after defeating Dorukan.

[rodneyAnonymous]

...but also that he mastered the spell right after defeating Dorukan.

He hasn't mastered the spell in that panel, he is just holding / looking at the headband.

[Living Oxymoron]

He hasn't mastered the spell in that panel, he is just holding / looking at the headband.

What I meant was that the fact he has the soul gem in his hand in that panel implies that he discovered the usage of that headband right after Dorukan's defeat.

I'm probably wrong about he being epic at that moment, but that argument about Xykon having mastered the spell after the Dungeon of Dorukan adventure has no sense to me.

[Flame of Anor]

Could we list Miko has having zero ranks in Knowledge (What the Hell You're Talking About)?

Everyone has zero ranks in that, because it's not a real skill.

[SavageWombat]

What I meant was that the fact he has the soul gem in his hand in that panel implies that he discovered the usage of that headband right after Dorukan's defeat.

I'm probably wrong about he being epic at that moment, but that argument about Xykon having mastered the spell after the Dungeon of Dorukan adventure has no sense to me.

He's identifying the item, or trying to at least. That doesn't mean he knows how to cast the spell involved.

If anything it merely shows that he just looted the body and is asking "what's up with that headband?"

[Kish]

Everyone has zero ranks in that, because it's not a real skill.

We also shouldn't be listing insults people throw at each other as though they were objective renderings of vital information.

(In before someone proposing we try to figure out what Intelligence score Belkar would need to have to fit the description of cretin--as well as note that he's actually two size categories smaller than halfling standard.)

[Mage Paradox]

As I and others have said, the reference to V being capped at level 15 should be removed (along with the "same level as Z" reference) owing to lack of evidence (and standard of that evidence falling short of what is asked for regarding other characters). I expect this to be ignored as usual, but it shouldn't be. Both logic (and consensus) speak strongly towards changing it.

If V and Z had their levels linked, I would expect V to be 17th level, not 15th.

'Offhand remark that might make them the same level, possibly' does not seem like evidence of anything.

I agree. This evil opposite evidence is so strange that Elan's character level was never modified after we knew that Nale is 15. At least, Elan should be listed as Bard 13/Dashing Swordsman 2, if we follow this method.

And about Xykon's level, I totally agree with you too.

Mage Paradox is making a good point about the linked comic. The statement is "If we are the same level." That means not even V thinks that they are the same level for sure.

For whatever it's worth, I agree that Vaarsuvius should be listed as level 15+, not level 15, and disagree that Tarquin should be listed with an epic ring of fire immunity (what is with people wanting to list Tarquin as having all sorts of funky rings?).

That said, is there anyone here who's particularly averse to adding a plus sign after V's level? It doesn't change a heck of a lot.

I don't think we can figure out Protagonist levels with the whole rivals thing.
We know that rivals are at least the same level, If not higher, This comes from Haley, who is a protagonist/hero; This can mean that while the antagonist/villain rival is always at least the same level as the protagonist/hero one, but the same is not necessarily true for the protagonist/hero, As the antagonist/villain rival can be of higher level, As such, that means while we can figure out a minimal level for the antagonist/villain rivals, we can't figure out the protagonist/hero one.

I think the Linear Guild were intended as the Evil Opposites and original rivals of the Order, and that would suggest comparable power levels. But that is way too vague to be of evidencial use on this thread, I'm sure. As for Z and V specifically; it is kind of like Haley and Crystal, in as much as Z (Crystal) spends a lot of effort and time thinking about killing V (Haley), whereas V (Haley) hardly gives Z (Crystal) a second thought unless they are actually in panel.

[137beth]

Everyone has zero ranks in that, because it's not a real skill.

Really? It's not? Next think you know you'll be saying we can't list Craft Distrubing Mental Image as a feat, since it isn't RAW outside of the OOTSverse

We also shouldn't be listing insults people throw at each other as though they were objective renderings of vital information.

Oh, right.

(In before someone proposing we try to figure out what Intelligence score Belkar would need to have to fit the description of cretin--as well as note that he's actually two size categories smaller than halfling standard.)

In before someone suggests that Belkar is Diminuitive (rather than Small) on account of that last panel! Or that Roy is also a cretin since Blackwing said so. Or that in the OOTSverse, the right of habeus corpus involves being killed (Belkar chasing after the lawyer)...

[Mage Paradox]

Just to add to my earlier comments, I looked up some of the non-epic magic rings that protect from fire, and they do not seem to grant "immunity" from fire, merely they absorb some damage... but notthe 192 hit points Meteor Swarm dishes out from point blank range (144 of which are from fire)... what are the other items that do this?

[Yendor]

We also shouldn't be listing insults people throw at each other as though they were objective renderings of vital information.

(In before someone proposing we try to figure out what Intelligence score Belkar would need to have to fit the description of cretin--as well as note that he's actually two size categories smaller than halfling standard.)

Zz'dtri is totally a sorceror, because the Linear Guild are "total morons" and so he can't have the Intelligence score to be a wizard.

[JFMS]

Just to add to my earlier comments, I looked up some of the non-epic magic rings that protect from fire, and they do not seem to grant "immunity" from fire, merely they absorb some damage... but notthe 192 hit points Meteor Swarm dishes out from point blank range (144 of which are from fire)... what are the other items that do this?

Take a look in my previous post: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...postcount=1311

Also, Meteor Swarm deals 6d6 fire damage (máx 36) per sphere, and fire resistance applies to each sphere's damage individually. Xykon didn't receive 8d6 from bludgeoning damage because he aimed the spell in the Crushing Hand.

Incidentally, he would have killed V if he had aimed the Meteor Swarm in her, because all hands spells have as many hit points as you do when you’re undamaged.

[MaximKat]

If Durkon is only 55 y/o, does this make him basically a dwarven teenager?

[hamishspence]

Maybe late-teen equivalent. Minimum age for a human cleric in PHB is 17 (15 +2d6 years)- for a dwarven cleric it's 47 (40 +7d6 years).

[Astral Avenger]

Shouldn't V have Suvie as an alias? (panel 3)

[mawexzon]

I request/propose for the aliases to be spoilered, or at least listed in a separate section from the name, Some characters have just too many aliases.

[Reddish Mage]

I request for the aliases to be spoilered, or at least listed in a separate section from the name, Some characters have just too many aliases.

I think the aliases should be spoilered or listed separately on the grounds that they are just silly throwaway gags.

[Kish]

I...think it is a very bad idea to create separate categories for Serious and Gags.

[Flame of Anor]

Shouldn't V have Suvie as an alias? (panel 3)

That's a nickname, not an alias.

[Bird]

Shouldn't V have Suvie as an alias? (panel 3)

I think there's a difference between nicknames/pet names and aliases. For the aliases listed so far, either the character was deliberately using it as a pseudonym (e.g. Ali S. Fakenamington) or the name was explicitly referenced using "a.k.a." in a strip.

[Kurald Galain]

I request/propose for the aliases to be spoilered, or at least listed in a separate section from the name, Some characters have just too many aliases.

A spoiler block would be way larger than a list of three aliases

I think there's a difference between nicknames/pet names and aliases. For the aliases listed so far, either the character was deliberately using it as a pseudonym (e.g. Ali S. Fakenamington) or the name was explicitly referenced using "a.k.a." in a strip.

Also, this. We're not going to enumerate all the insults Belkar thinks of for Durkon (e.g. Stubbles von Smackhammer). Official documentation from a governmental agency or an angel is quite different than a random nickname.

[Math_Mage]

If Durkon is only 55 y/o, does this make him basically a dwarven teenager?

Early 20s, by Word of God.

[Reddish Mage]

A spoiler block would be way larger than a list of three aliases

Good point

[Mage Paradox]

Take a look in my previous post: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...postcount=1311

Also, Meteor Swarm deals 6d6 fire damage (máx 36) per sphere, and fire resistance applies to each sphere's damage individually. Xykon didn't receive 8d6 from bludgeoning damage because he aimed the spell in the Crushing Hand.

Incidentally, he would have killed V if he had aimed the Meteor Swarm in her, because all hands spells have as many hit points as you do when you’re undamaged.

Coul you link me to the actual item on a D&D site? It's just I can't find it, and I assume that it actually absorbs a certain number of points of energy at that cost, rather than grants immunity.

Also I notice the 15+ for V has not been changed. Typical.

[JFMS]

The items found in the sourcebooks are examples, you can craft a magic item using any spell. Here you can see how to create magic items.

The ring of energy resistance found in the d20srd.org grants energy resistance, because this ring is based on the Resist Energy spell.

Using the rules to create magic items, I created a ring based on the Energy Immunity spell.