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2013-06-10, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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- Vancouver, BC
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
Assuming the same experience from the same "heart's desire" spell on two totally different people is rather dubious. Elan's experience was of a well deserved and incredibly hard fought happy ending where all the people he didn't want to die didn't have to (except maybe Belkar). Nale just got to be extra long-winded when his evil plan succeeded. Those ain't the same experience at all, so I would expect different results from them.
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2013-06-10, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
I think the lack of more adequate defenses is supposed to represent how a divided Order of the Scribble isn't as good as a united one. If they had cooperated, these gaping holes in their plans would've been covered by their allies. So the moral of the gate protection deficiencies is that teamwork wins the day.
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2013-06-10, 09:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
From a while back, but worth responding to:
While this is true, what I don't see is why so many people expect those questions to be resolved by Ian showing up at the Windy Canyon. All of the evidence to suggest that he has any reason to go there is contextual or suggestive, nothing more. And I don't think there's any chance the end of this book and fight for the Gate will mean farewell forever to the Western Continent.
Also, I find the fact that "King Nale" is wearing a sash to be hilarious.
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2013-06-10, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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- Sydney, Australia
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
The critical question:
- Is it a hexagonal room with an illusion that took a moment to activate that makes it look like an octagonal room?
- Or is it an octagonal room that had an illusion on it that made it look like a hexagonal room until they saw through it?
- Or is it a gigantic pit with an illusion on it to make it look like a room, only the illusion is a bit bodgy?
Malack speaks of "a simple phantasm" but IIUC the purple runes are something custom and more powerful. Does that mean Malack's underestimating Draketooth magic? We know Nale has some method of defeating vampires because he killed Malack's progeny when Nale was low level. Is it even remotely possible he could win against an overconfident Malack and Durkula? What D&D gadgets are there that make vampire-slaying easy?I prepared Comic Sans today.
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2013-06-10, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
I'm not sure if it's been pointed out already, but this plan was foreshadowed more than 300 strips ago.
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2013-06-10, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
My stones are even now growing nigh unto cerulean with anticipation of the tale's next installment.
Last edited by Lombard; 2013-06-10 at 09:25 PM.
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2013-06-10, 10:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2013-06-10, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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- Texas
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
I really can't wait to see what goes down! Pretty good strip Mr. Giant!
I really hope Belkar will be able to fight! When the LG enter that door, they'll need him! Also, hopefully V will show up to at least even up the odds a tiny bit!
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2013-06-10, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
This is actually pretty solid, though it will almost certainly not happen that way. For instance: no mention of the fiends, there's quite possibly no self-destruct rune (only one of the gates has had one so far), the SG can't teleport AFAIK (unless they enlist the help of the elves, I suppose) and V would probably be caught by the phantasm.
We shall see.
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2013-06-10, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- The land of corn
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2013-06-10, 10:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
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- The Chi
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
The laws of physics are not crying in a corner, they are bawling in the forums.
Thanks to half-halfling for the avatar
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2013-06-10, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2013
Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
How does undead immunity to illusions work? Will they just not see Elan's illusionary wall? Or do they have to touch it or something?
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2013-06-10, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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2013-06-10, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
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2013-06-10, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
Hmm, yes.... this room could potentially have a number of doors, from which V and Team evil could all enter, as they fight for control of the gate. I bet the name of one of the comics will be something horribly punny and ironic... like... "Battle Roy-all" or something, even though Roy and his team probably do nothing but watch the other rip each other to shreds.
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2013-06-10, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Tokyo
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
What if, as seems not impossible, undead enemies are simply a fairly rare thing to encounter and the Order of the Squiggle, high level characters though they were, simply had little or no contact with them prior to Xykon's emergence?
Rules-based jokes aside, characters in this world aren't issued a Player's Handbook & Monster Manual upon achieving their first Class Level that they can study & memorize at their discretion. The various weaknesses, immunities and special abilities that are so well known to players sitting at the table should not be automatic knowledge to characters who haven't gained that knowledge through experience. An example of this is the Order failing to realize Disintegrate is a higher level spell for Redcloak than it is for V and underestimating the threat he presents because of this lack of knowledge.
Yes, Team Evil are well-suited to exploiting the weaknesses of the protections we've seen on the gates thus far, but that may due more to the rarity of threats of this nature than it is to some glaring mistake on the part of the Order of the Scribble.Last edited by pearl jam; 2013-06-10 at 11:25 PM.
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2013-06-10, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
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2013-06-11, 12:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- MO, USA
Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
This story arc is starting to feel like some of the dungeon crawls I've been in. It's hard to explain, but it does.
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2013-06-11, 12:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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- <<Undetected>>
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
Blank 3.5 Character Creator Iron Chef Style Tables (in Google Sheets)
Chairman Emeritus of Zinc Saucier.
Avatar by Derjuin, sing her praises to Elysium.
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2013-06-11, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- The land of corn
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
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2013-06-11, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Forest Grove, Oregon
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
'Preciate the effort, but no...
The problem's not that Nale negates Elan's internal character growth but that he severely diminishes the significance of what Elan's character growth managed to accomplish externally. He saved his team's butt and nonmagically broke through an Epic-level spell, which was pretty awesome! I love Elan and I loved this moment for him where he got to do something so important and unique. It now looks less awesome because apparently even Nale can do it as part of a joke, and if something can be achieved by a useless character as a joke it looks much less impressive that somebody else managed it by other means.
So I would actually prefer to think Nale is emulating Elan and might have had a legitimate breakthrough -- at least then breaking through nonmagically would still be sort of special, with Elan and Nale both doing it because they are "evil opposites" and had epiphanies at the same time. I'm not sure how likely that is, but it could be interesting.
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2013-06-11, 12:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- The land of corn
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
Z tugging on Nale and trying from the outside to get Nale going again might have played some small part, though. Elan did everything on his own from the inside, without anyone outside to try to help him out. Nale? Might have gotten out on his own, but he certainly had someone on the outside trying to help too.
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2013-06-11, 01:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Tokyo
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
Ooops! So we agree. I guess I read your post in the wrong tone.
Still, there have been many posts on this subject since the introduction of the illusion, and probably before that too, but many people seem to be forgetting that, although characters in this comic clearly have a fair amount of rules meta-knowledge and make reference to it regularly, we shouldn't assume that they have all possible rules meta-knowlege memorized at all times.
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2013-06-11, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- USA
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
Why do they have to be the same though? If we are going with opposites, Elan breaking through with actual character development would be opposite of Nale breaking out for a cheap joke.
Because character development or not, it appears that realization that your perfect world is not real, but an illusion, is what breaks the spell.
Maybe. But then that only increases the danger for Clan DrakeTooth when attacking any who get caught.Last edited by EmperorSarda; 2013-06-11 at 02:52 AM.
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2013-06-11, 02:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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- Forest Grove, Oregon
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
They don't have to be the same. I'd prefer them to be the same, because I think that if you can break an Epic-level spell by being a cheap joke, it looks less impressive that you can break the same Epic-level spell through serious character development.
I like Elan to be impressive. I thought it was cool he beat the spell the way he did.
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2013-06-11, 03:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
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- Germany
Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
With the Linear Guild not be really affected buy the runes, I think that is not set up by Girard (or at least it is not Epic). Because compared with other Epic magic we have seen, this seems (at least to me) not-so-epic. It seems that even Z resisted it completely and Nale couldn't have been long in there. Even if there would have been Girard's pals to "finish them off" nearby, it would have been a normal fight and no coup-de-gracing (or something like that).
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2013-06-11, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
Here's a possibility to consider:
What if the phantasm in the hallway is only the first part of an epic-level defense (and perhaps the circle in the room is a second part).
And the purpose of the phantasm is not just to delay, but to gather intelligence. Which is why it is a lotus-eater style illusion rather than, say, a worse-nightmare style illusion.
In the OotS's joint phantasm, they re-sealed/re-built a gate. They are now flagged as "not a primary threat" by the defensive magic system.
If Nale dreamed of doing anything nefarious with the gate, he is now flagged as "dangerous - destroy with prejudice" by the defensive magic system.
And the vampires, Dark Elf, and fiends who (possibly) resisted the phantasm? They are now flagged as "unknown - destroy with EXTREME prejudice".
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2013-06-11, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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- Georgia
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2013-06-11, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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2013-06-11, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- Wisconsin, USA
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Re: OOTS #892 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark