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2013-11-05, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Last edited by hamishspence; 2013-11-05 at 10:11 AM.
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2013-11-05, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Which runs into the problem of why his head is glowing like he's been targeted.
Unless somebody can come up with a power that matches what we're seeing and has friendly fire, the only good explanation I've seen for why the spell would hit him is that she's bouncing Inflict Pain to Durkon and Tarquin is the only one close enough to chain from.Originally Posted by The Giant
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2013-11-05, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
I think it's plausible (though not MOST plausible, just plausible) that mind-affecting powers which fire in a burst but pick friend or foe are depicted as "scanning" a mind before deciding whether or not to attack it.
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2013-11-05, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
How does this comic show that Belkar has three magic daggers (as it says on the front page)? I can count only 2.
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2013-11-05, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Second page, the panel right after he snogs Jenny. He tosses two daggers into the blond thief's torso, while holding on to a third that's visible at his waist.
Originally Posted by The Giant
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2013-11-05, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
In panel 9 on the second page, Belkar has just thrown two daggers into his enemy while kissing Jenny- yet still has one dagger visible.
EDIT: Swordsaged.Last edited by hamishspence; 2013-11-05 at 12:05 PM.
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2013-11-05, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Ah yes, thanks!
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2013-11-05, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Added Spring Attack to Belkar, defensive potions to V (from comic 923).
Always a useful checklist. Well, he could still have dropped Transmutation, Illusion, and Enchantment.
The range of Dimension Door is about 1000 feet, or 300 meters. Given the location they're in, that would mean he'd still be visible and in the combat.
I would be in favor of adding him and Jacinda to the top posts, even if we know next to nothing about the catgirl yet; this is to include the complete team there. After all, we also have alisting for the MITD.
Speaking of Team Tarquin, we can say something about Laurin's age. Minimum age for a human psion is 17, and she was already psion'ing 22 years ago, when Nale was a baby. So that would make her 39+ years old.
I don't think that's consistent with how spells have been depicted elsewhere in the comic. I'm leaning towards Inflict Pain as well.
Come to think of it, it would be interesting to check if this is also in the printed book :)Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2013-11-05, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Indeed.
Whoops :)
Also, I thought of something. In his battle with Malack, Durkon said that he couldn't use Thor's Might because the ceiling was too low; that means he did have it prepared. However, right now he's saying he doesn't have magic any more. That indicates that he can no longer use Thor's Might.
Also also, Laurin has another unspecified attack power in comic 927, which is different from the UAP she used earlier.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2013-11-05, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-11-05, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-11-05, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Setting aside the two attacks bit for a moment, I also think Belkar has too many feats if he does have Spring Attack. For Spring Attack, he needs to have Dodge and Mobility as pre-reques.
In his statblock he has as listed:
Craft Disturbing Mental Image
Great Cleave
Improved Sunder
Power Attack (prerequisite for Improved Sunder)
Two-Weapon Pounce
If we include (and as has now been updated ) Spring Attack and the prereques:
Spring Attack
Dodge
Mobility
That's eight feats. At lvl 15 he should have six feats, correct? OK, as funny as it is, Craft Disturbing Mental Image can go on the chopping block as a 'real' feat. Maybe he got it for free or sumthin.
There's still one too many feats unless I am massively messing up somewhere.
As I look about, I see that Rangers can choose Two Weapon Pounce if they meet certain requirements. But it doesn't appear as if they can choose it as part of their improved weapon style.
So does something go on the chopping block here? Or do we fold in Two Weapon Pounce as an Alternative Class Feature of Rangers for Belkar?
We could also possibly knock out Great Cleave if all we are going on is Belkar's comment about "I'm gonna try for two now." After all, just because he could try doesn't mean he could succeed. And on-screen evidence should trump attempted non-screen evidence.
And all Improved Sunder lets one do is make an attack against a Hydra's head without an Attack of Opportunity. That could be explained away as the Hydra just missed and Rich didn't depict it in the combat explicitly.
Is there evidence for Great Cleave later on in the comic? Or Improved Sunder? If so, Alternate Class Feature for Two Weapon Pounce could be our only alternative. Though I may be missing something pretty big, due to my rust.
ETA::: We could also always open up the can of worms of One Flaw Equals One Feat variant rule. And if any character in the OotS has feat flaws it'd be Belkar.
For instance, Inattentive [You are particularly unaware of your surroundings --- You take a -4 penalty on Listen checks and Spot checks]would certainly work. So to could Weak Will [You are highly suggestible and easily duped --- You take a -3 penalty on Will saves]. Either of them would help explain how he seems to be so lacking in Wisdom, even though he looks to have no worse than a 9 due to various reasons that are better not rehashed for the thousandth time.
Listed just as examples, not as suggestions to add it to the block.Last edited by Porthos; 2013-11-05 at 12:55 PM.
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2013-11-05, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Sorry if this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but are we not adding Miron? He's almost certainly a sorcerer, and a pretty high-level one if he has Horrid Wilting and Contingency.
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2013-11-05, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
I think the possibility he may also be a wizard is what is delaying his inclusion.
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2013-11-05, 01:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
I would include Miron as soon as possibly now (I think we know more of him than of Kilkil). As for class: can't we list him just as "Arcane Spellcaster"?
Or it will crop up every other post
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2013-11-05, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
What's more, you've left out Cleave, which is a prerequisite for Great Cleave. So there's definitely something fishy going on. I agree that we should take a hard look at just how sure we are that Belkar has Great Cleave. I would say that maybe he took a Fighter dip, but that probably would have come up in the dialogue.
Just list him as Sor/Wiz, I'd say.Last edited by Flame of Anor; 2013-11-05 at 01:52 PM.
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2013-11-05, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Well it doesn't make much sense to say 'wait I need to finish healing' immediately after you finish healing either, but that's the world we live in.
For ultrablast there are two components to it: the pyschic grumbling that everyone can hear, and the damaging component. The yellow lines shooting out could be the psychic grumbling, after which only enemies are affected by damage. As for Belkar surviving, let's see what happens in the next comic. If the Order was dealt damage then I think ultrablast is clearly the power in use.
I don't understand why Belkar is being given Great Cleave actually..... he can attack multiple heads because he has multiple attacks, cleaving doesn't seem to be necessary for that strip.Last edited by Kornaki; 2013-11-05 at 02:33 PM.
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2013-11-05, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
As I said in the last two iterations of this thread - Belkar's build runs on pure phlebotinum and Rule of Cool. You may as well give him custom feats that let him add Dex to damage and boost Dex when raging. About the only things we really know about him are his classes, alignment, and that his Will save is somewhere just north of Thog's.
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2013-11-05, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
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2013-11-05, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Has anyone discussed the possibility that the power Laurin manifested was Empathic Transfer, Hostile? Her remaining injuries would be transferred to her target, and it goes from touch to 20' radius burst by augmenting. Tarquin would smile because he's used to it, Durkon would look surprised because it would actually hurt him. It wouldn't kill Belkar because Laurin's HP damage would be divided evenly, and it's a Will save for half, so the high-Will characters could demonstrate a lesser effect.
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2013-11-05, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
I'm willing to go on the record as saying that it is probably ultrablast and Belkar will be dead or unconscious in the next comic, with the full knowledge that if I'm right I get to pretend I'm king of the internet for a day even though nobody really cares, and if I'm wrong refer to that nobody really cares point.
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2013-11-05, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Tarquin appears to have a stunning attack.
Also, do we have a link for Lirian's alignment?Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2013-11-05, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
I think the closest we have to Lirian's alignment is that she's a druid, which requires her to be some form of Neutral. Not sure how much that helps.
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2013-11-05, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...9#post15667889
It's linked in the Index of the Giant's Comments thread.
Lirian is Neutral Good.
Dorukan's alignment link is the same post.Last edited by orrion; 2013-11-05 at 06:05 PM.
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2013-11-05, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Yes. Let us assume that Miron went into this fight buffed with stoneskin, resist cold and resist electricity. Let us further assume that he took the minimum damage possible on each attack that visibly left a wound. Those attacks were as follows:
2 arrows
1 lightning bolt (he has a wound on his head that was not there in the last strip, and which Haley's arrows couldn't have left)
1 yellow ray from prismatic spray
1 greatsword, 2 daggers, 4 arrows
Those attacks dealt damage as follows, again assuming minimum damage modifiers (i.e., no Power Attack for Roy or Rage for Belkar, and assuming Belkar's daggers are each +1, but giving Belkar the benefit of Favored Enemy [human] taken 3 times so he can bypass the DR I've given Miron):
1d8+5+1d6 cold
1d8+5+1d6 cold
10d6 electricity (ref halves)
80 electricity (ref halves)
2d6+15
1d3+9
1d3+9
1d8+5+1d6 cold
1d8+5+1d6 cold
1d8+5+1d6 cold
1d8+5+1d6 cold
Resolving each attack so that it does at least one damage, and minimum damage, to Miron, we get the following:
11+1 cold => 1
11+1 cold => 1
31 electricity => 1 electricity (Miron failed his save, but V only rolled 31 on her damage dice; if Miron had made his save, he would have taken no damage, because V's maximum damage on a lightning bolt that had been saved against would have been 30)
40 electricity => 10 electricity
17 => 7
11 => 1
11 => 1
11+1 cold => 1
11+1 cold => 1
11+1 cold => 1
11+1 cold => 1
All told, it is possible that Miron could have taken as little as 26 damage before his contingency activated. This is terribly unlikely, as it is achieved by giving Miron buffs we don't know he has (but can't be sure he doesn't have), and assuming the Order did the absolute minimum damage possible on each successful hit. It doesn't jive with the art showing him covered in wounds, including what look like severe wounds caused by Roy and Belkar. But it is possible.
At minimum, Miron is a level 15 Wizard. If he rolled 4s on all his HD, and is in fact a level 15 Wizard, he would have 60 HP before Constitution. So it's possible, though again, terribly unlikely, that the Order has yet to deplete even half his HP. This sort of thing isn't unprecedented; as I've argued in earlier threads, in order to have survived her fight with Xykon, V needed to have rolled almost all 4s on her HD, have a Constitution penalty of no less than -1, and made all her saves while Xykon did minimal damage. But we don't need to assume Miron's Constitution is average. We want to find a minimum value.
Again assuming Miron to be level 15, and to have rolled all 4s on his HD, in order to find his minimum Constitution we need to give him a penalty that will leave him with no less than 27 HP. That penalty is -2. So Miron, if he is a level 15 Wizard, must have a Constitution of 6 or higher. If he is level 28 or above (which we have absolutely no reason to believe), his Constitution could be as low as 4.
Since we have no reason to believe Miron is anywhere near level 28, we can say with some confidence that his Constitution must be 6 or higher.Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2013-11-05 at 06:16 PM.
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2013-11-05, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
That's a greatsword, 2 daggers, and 4 arrows, Zimmer.
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2013-11-05, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-11-05, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Playing devil's advocate, is it? I agree he's not a bard or wu jen, but are there any other arcane primary-casting classes that could fit? (I admit I'm not familiar with the entire panoply of non-core classes.)
You are good. High five.Last edited by Bird; 2013-11-05 at 06:18 PM.
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2013-11-05, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
The only other arcane spellcaster classes I can think of that are remotely within the mainstream (i.e. not one of the dozens of classes that may exist within the nebulous world of third-party sourcebooks) are the warlock and the warmage. Miron is definitely not a warlock, as they don't even cast spells, per se. I'm pretty sure he's not a warmage, either, since their spells are pretty tightly focused on military combat, but I can't say for sure, as my copy of Complete Arcane is currently on another continent.
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2013-11-05, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Wu Jen have access to Teleport, Horrid Wilting, and lots of other spells. Not Contingency, though.
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