LGBTAitp #46: I cast Prismatic Hugs!

[CurlyKitGirl]

WELCOME!

Hope you enjoy your stay. And you have my sympathies. Last time I had to fill a survey in, it was very tempting to tick both boxes for gender, and write "Well, it's a good thing you provided an "Other" option, isn't it? Thank you for considering that there might be people outside the gender binary," though in the end I didn't, on the basis that they'd probably think I was just weird.

Anyway, welcome.

Hello!
Ah, that would have been a nice one to answer back with, as would be 'Prefer Not To Say', except then some busybody receptionist (who only meant the best, really) would have ended up ticking Female because my name is feminine. Also PCOS is a thing for biological females only.
But then, fifty years ago I doubt the survey would have supplied any form of a Sexuality section at all, so there's a lot of hope isn't there? And they did have the option for trans people there too which really was nice.
There's also the slight fact that if there'd been an option for pansexual I'd have gone for that, but that is just a quibble.
But really I think it's fun (if that's even the right word to use) being non-traditionally gendered for reasons I can't quite explain because I don't really know how I'll feel about anything until I do it, and then my opinion on it might change afterwards! It's an eternal surprise. It also means that when I talk about manning/girling up/out I mean it quite literally which I think is a fine distinction people don't recognise. It's not derogatory when I say it (even though it probably is), it's just . . . literal. For me.
Really I'm just complicated, and I like it. Though it can be annoying having to say things like 'As a biological female [bleh]' and sometimes have people say strange things back.

[Mina Kobold]

It is an extremely loose adaptation, but it's still awesome, it still has a girl going on a rescue, and lots of female characters doing stuff, and a reindeer.

It does sound good (apart from the head of animation stating that multiple female characters are difficult because women has to be pretty and sensitive), though I was just a bit annoyed that the trailers indicate a romantic subplot, two male characters sharing Anna's screen time, an all-white cast (Though, as at least one Saami blogger has complained, they still get uncomfortably appropriative of Saami cultural elements) and both of those amounting to less diversity (in trailers) than the 1845 fairy tale. Unless people are right about the main siblings being trans, in which case it gets points for amazing. ^_^'

I'm probably a bit biased by that whole head of animation quote and the Saami clothing bit, though, so take my pre-watching impression with a grain of snow. Well, those reasons and the fact that the names sound hilarious to me.


PS: A Koboldy welcome from me too, Curly! Hope you'll have fun here. Agree that the questionnaire was very lacking, but it's promising that it's gotten this far. Perhaps you being there and possibly being able to mention it could even help it! ^_^

Also, if you wrote that you prefer not to say, wouldn't that make a receptionist overriding your preferences kind of insensitive? Meaning well confuses me when the reaction to "I don't want to say this" is "I'll just jot it down anyway! :D" ^_^'

[Jormengand]

Really I'm just complicated, and I like it. Though it can be annoying having to say things like 'As a biological female [bleh]' and sometimes have people say strange things back.

Yeah, I kinda like being complicated.

"Wait, so are you a guy or a girl?"
"No."
...
"I thought you were a guy..."
"I was, and now I'm a girl."
...
"So, wait, are you a girl?"
"Today, yes."

Fun to confuse people with, if nothing else...

...Though it does have the side-effect that at times I feel terrible. Ugh.

[QueerKitty]

I think this is a bit of a weird definition of misandry. Thoughts?

I really like it but not as a definition of misandry, more an explanation. I disagree that the definition of feminism is "empowering women", that's just one of the goals. Misandry in this case, instead of being the reduction of harmful privileges, I see as a response by men when they are called out on displaying these harmful privileges.

[KenderWizard]

Yeah, Frozen's not perfect. It would have been better to have some racial diversity, definitely. I was very skeptical about it, because of the comments about the animation being hard because of having two female characters, and because of all the white-boys-and-snowmen advertising, but I think it does so well on the female characters front and the subverting traditional Disney romance front that it deserves some slack. One step at a time and all that.

[noparlpf]

I really like it but not as a definition of misandry, more an explanation. I disagree that the definition of feminism is "empowering women", that's just one of the goals. Misandry in this case, instead of being the reduction of harmful privileges, I see as a response by men when they are called out on displaying these harmful privileges.

I like the post except where they keep misusing the word "misandry", which really invalidates everything else because it makes them sound like a bigot too.

[QueerKitty]

Really I'm just complicated, and I like it. Though it can be annoying having to say things like 'As a biological female [bleh]' and sometimes have people say strange things back.

Just so you know, "biological female" is a really crappy term.

I like the post except where they keep misusing the word "misandry", which really invalidates everything else because it makes them sound like a bigot too.

Yeah, that's what I was saying, except you can't be bigoted against men. :P

[noparlpf]

Yeah, that's what I was saying, except you can't be bigoted against men. :P

No, of course not.

[CurlyKitGirl]

It does sound good (apart from the head of animation stating that multiple female characters are difficult because women has to be pretty and sensitive), though I was just a bit annoyed that the trailers indicate a romantic subplot, two male characters sharing Anna's screen time, an all-white cast (Though, as at least one Saami blogger has complained, they still get uncomfortably appropriative of Saami cultural elements) and both of those amounting to less diversity (in trailers) than the 1845 fairy tale. Unless people are right about the main siblings being trans, in which case it gets points for amazing. ^_^'

I'm probably a bit biased by that whole head of animation quote and the Saami clothing bit, though, so take my pre-watching impression with a grain of snow. Well, those reasons and the fact that the names sound hilarious to me.

Really? The head of animation said that? Well I hope he got a nice round of glares from people s/he worked with. And at least your trailers indicated something of substance; literally the only trailer for Frozen I've seen (I'm in the UK for the reference) involves a . . . talking animal - I almost want to say it's a snowman, but I just don't want it to be - and a male in some form of 'comedic moment'. I didn't even know there were two siblings in it, let alone that they were both female!
So that trailer seriously put me off, and I'm a biiiiiiiig fan of Disney's animated works. But I've still heard good things about it, so I'm still going to see it anyway. Besides, the Tangled trailers played up the comedy and that wasn't a complete comedy.
That said, the lack of diversity is a problem, but as with most things, one step at a time. Yeah, it's not great that we have to go one step at a time, but acclimatising people is a good thing.

PS: A Koboldy welcome from me too, Curly! Hope you'll have fun here. Agree that the questionnaire was very lacking, but it's promising that it's gotten this far. Perhaps you being there and possibly being able to mention it could even help it! ^_^

Also, if you wrote that you prefer not to say, wouldn't that make a receptionist overriding your preferences kind of insensitive? Meaning well confuses me when the reaction to "I don't want to say this" is "I'll just jot it down anyway! :D" ^_^'

No, the survey only had the options Male and Female with a follow-up question of 'Is this the gender you were born with? Yes/No' or something along those lines. No Prefer Not to Say option.
And as for mentioning it to the receptionists/other I had a seriously stressful time getting to the hospital and suffer from serious shyness/polite deference with most people so I didn't.
Next time though . . .

And really, given that I live in a rural part of the country and my general area is mildly-to-quite-traditional in some aspects I consider it a bonus that it was at least a county wide survey.

EDIT:

Just so you know, "biological female" is a really crappy term.

Eh, I'm stumbling along trying to figure out how to refer to myself when I'm feeling male-in-a-female-body, masculine-in-a-female-body, neutral-in-a-female-body and everything else.
It's the best term I have so far, but I'm still looking.

[The Succubus]

Hey Curly! =)

From what you've described, would the terms "genderqueer" or "agender" be applicable to your situation?

[QueerKitty]

Eh, I'm stumbling along trying to figure out how to refer to myself when I'm feeling male-in-a-female-body, masculine-in-a-female-body, neutral-in-a-female-body and everything else.
It's the best term I have so far, but I'm still looking.

Sounds genderfluid to me. There's lots of terms and stuff. But yeah, "man in a woman's body" and "woman in a man's body" is just old cissexist crap. A trans girl's body is her own, and therefore it is a woman's body. (I know you're using male/female but yeah) If you have fluctuating masculine/neutral/feminine feelings that sounds genderfluid, but then we could get into the differences between sex/gender identity/presentation/roles etc

[KenderWizard]

Really? The head of animation said that? Well I hope he got a nice round of glares from people s/he worked with. And at least your trailers indicated something of substance; literally the only trailer for Frozen I've seen (I'm in the UK for the reference) involves a . . . talking animal - I almost want to say it's a snowman, but I just don't want it to be - and a male in some form of 'comedic moment'. I didn't even know there were two siblings in it, let alone that they were both female!
So that trailer seriously put me off, and I'm a biiiiiiiig fan of Disney's animated works. But I've still heard good things about it, so I'm still going to see it anyway. Besides, the Tangled trailers played up the comedy and that wasn't a complete comedy.
That said, the lack of diversity is a problem, but as with most things, one step at a time. Yeah, it's not great that we have to go one step at a time, but acclimatising people is a good thing.

Yuuup, it was a big eyeroll moment all around and I hope he got given out to.

I avoided the trailers because I kept hearing they were awful and I was hopeful for the two-main-female-characters thing, and I'm glad. I watched a trailer for interest after watching the movie today, and it was bizarre. They made everyone seem different than their main character traits and they must have used every single joke the snowman makes, in order to fill 2 minutes of comedy.

Frozen is suffering from "but it's imaginary historical Norway/Finland and Scandinavians are white". Which is a false argument, but it's a way stronger false argument than "there should be only white people in movies set in modern day America because ... uh ... yeah", so I can see, in a world where the latter is still working, the former will easily slide by.

[DMwithoutPC's]

does anybody else love Khaos Comix? I think the stories are just so sweet, and It's a very good example of stories being very different from someone else's perspective.

It;s something that makes me very happy when I read it, and I wanted to spread the love! (although a lot of you probably allready know about it)

http://www.khaoskomix.com/

[Jormengand]

does anybody else love Khaos Comix? I think the stories are just so sweet, and It's a very good example of stories being very different from someone else's perspective.

It;s something that makes me very happy when I read it, and I wanted to spread the love! (although a lot of you probably allready know about it)

http://www.khaoskomix.com/

It's in the first post of every thread for several back. :p

[CurlyKitGirl]

Sounds genderfluid to me. There's lots of terms and stuff. But yeah, "man in a woman's body" and "woman in a man's body" is just old cissexist crap. A trans girl's body is her own, and therefore it is a woman's body. (I know you're using male/female but yeah) If you have fluctuating masculine/neutral/feminine feelings that sounds genderfluid, but then we could get into the differences between sex/gender identity/presentation/roles etc

Aannnd while my relatives do try, they are cissexist and all that jazz, and don't really understand how I can something feel masculine, feminine, neutral, nothing a mix and everything else that comes with being genderfluid, so that's the best way for everything to be clear between us. I did identify as genderfluid back a page, but I also know that to some people this doesn't mean much, so I go for something else.
Plus a few of my relatives are out-and-out homophobes who are honestly trying to understand that I'm not heterosexual, so one step at a time.

Yuuup, it was a big eyeroll moment all around and I hope he got given out to.

I avoided the trailers because I kept hearing they were awful and I was hopeful for the two-main-female-characters thing, and I'm glad. I watched a trailer for interest after watching the movie today, and it was bizarre. They made everyone seem different than their main character traits and they must have used every single joke the snowman makes, in order to fill 2 minutes of comedy.

Frozen is suffering from "but it's imaginary historical Norway/Finland and Scandinavians are white". Which is a false argument, but it's a way stronger false argument than "there should be only white people in movies set in modern day America because ... uh ... yeah", so I can see, in a world where the latter is still working, the former will easily slide by.

Well, damn, I just looked up a scene from Frozen, this one (possible spoilers? I don't know who she actually is), and that's beautiful and I may have developed a slight crush on animated Idina Mendez, so guess what I'll be seeing soon?
God that animation is gorgeous (even better than a lot of Disney's classic/great works), and that voice and the attitude and the confidence and I'm not really a fan of blondes/blonds (from a purely physical perspective), but that is good.

[Miriel]

Eh, I'm stumbling along trying to figure out how to refer to myself when I'm feeling male-in-a-female-body, masculine-in-a-female-body, neutral-in-a-female-body and everything else.
It's the best term I have so far, but I'm still looking.

There is FAAB -- female assigned at birth.

[Jormengand]

There is FAAB -- female assigned at birth.

I find that AMAB and AFAB roll off the tongue far better than MAAB and FAAB, just because they don't have the double A in.

I have no idea what point I'm trying to make here. Humour me.

[SiuiS]

I would say there's more parallels with Elsa. I'm about to google around reviews and stuff, though, so I'll keep an eye out for Anna-as-trans theories.

Spoiler: Frozen spoilers

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Elsa's told by her parents that she has to hide her powers, cause people won't understand her and she'll frighten them. She uses clothes to cover herself up. When people find out and react badly, she runs away and, alone, she can dress as she pleases and use her powers, show herself off. In the end, she needs people to love her, and she can show who she really is.

Also, generally, it is a beautiful movie, it has TWO main female characters who are DIFFERENT and FULLY ROUNDED HUMANS! It's got a bunch of messy relationships, no weird sexist evil-stepmother tropes, some excellent plot twisting, the comic relief character is actually adorable and hilarious (I usually hate the comic relief), and it's just a really fun and touching film.

Olaf was the single best part of that movie, even if only barely. Olaf the snowman melts my heart.

Spoiler: Spoilers

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I am still undecided on it. It hasn't compiled yet.

For one, True Love^{[font="courier new]TM[/font]} is a berserk button of mine because of how glossed-over it is when there's a lot of assumptions and baggage involved.

So the instant True Love was mentioned I immediately flowered, rolled my eyes and said "it damn well better be the sister or I will flip all the tables." So when it was, I relieved but have a hard time letting go of my brooding. So now I'm mostly okay, except I'm really irked that prudish tight laced princess becomes fre and suddenly HIPS LIKE A PENDULUM IN GLORIOUS 4" PUMPS IN THE SNOW.

But the ending was okay and Olaf was remarkably sweet, so much so that I think he should be a thread mascot. So now I'm like, not sure. Great animation and fantabulous acting and vocals, though.

And I NEVER FORGAVE YOU.
I forgave you.

Aaaaah don't do that! :<
T~T

Apparently the main character from Disney's Frozen, which is allegedly based on The Snow Queen by H. C. Andersen. I'd say more, but I only know the fairy tale and everything I hear about the film indicates that it's a very loose adaptation. Which is a shame, because the original has quite a lot of female characters doing stuff, is about a non-princess girl rescuing a boy (who is not a love interest), and even includes a Sami character. Plus, talking flowers, birds and a reindeer. The film does not seem to have any of that, which displeases me.

Spoiler: more spoilers

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There's a talking reindeer! Well, close enough to count I suppose.

I think this is a bit of a weird definition of misandry. Thoughts?

Tenuously, it makes sense in context but is not a standalone definition. It's not incorrect but it's so highly rhetorically abstract as to be useless and outright factually wrong when used without context.

Spoiler

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I detest the arrogance of people who refuse to clarify when their wording is legitimately confusing and they're approached in a polite manner, so I might just be biased against this person before even reading the post as yet another ****-waving pseudo-intellectual trying to wow others with the size of their e-****.

Their definition feels like a complete non sequitur, as does their characterization of equality as striving for a world where everyone can be a ***** without getting called out for it. Indeed, separating the two seems quite odd, and almost like it's an excuse to only tear down and never give consideration to building up.

Every time I want to give Tumblr a chance, I run into things like this.

Well, rhetorically I see the point behind the equality statement. If equality of the sexes is 'women can do all the stuff men can do' and we accept that 'men can do bad things and it's okay' as currently true then we must also accept that equality of the sexes as such is allowing women to do bad things and get away with it, too.

You can argue the definition of equality and the degree to which 'men are allowed to so bad things and it's okay' is true. But the idea of reconfiguring societal morals from the ground up instead of just reconfiguring standing morals until you kludge them into a working enough form to be acceptable is a good one.

Myself, I have to wonder why a blog that lists inclusiveness for all has a logo that happily proclaims "forever bathing in your male tears", but hey.

[Mystic Muse]

Also, I've always seen Rarity as being a trans girl.

A lot of other people see this too. Odd that I've never seen a fic about that.

Also, can we not talk about ponythread here? I left that thread for a reason. A lot of them actually.

[Coidzor]

Spoiler: SiuiS, Misandry Definition tumblr post

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Well, rhetorically I see the point behind the equality statement. If equality of the sexes is 'women can do all the stuff men can do' and we accept that 'men can do bad things and it's okay' as currently true then we must also accept that equality of the sexes as such is allowing women to do bad things and get away with it, too.

It doesn't make sense as rhetoric or a rhetorical statement to me, so I'd appreciate it if you'd humor me and explain that a bit more.

Show me anyone making that argument and I'd buy you a beer. Which is part of why it's a non sequitur to me. No one who works for equality wants that, AFAIK, that's one thing that everyone from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to non-Wave feminists (and those who get lumped in with feminists despite rejecting the label due to perceiving the label as rejecting them along racial or socio-economic lines) seems to have universally agreed upon, but I admit that it's quite possible I've missed out on some crucial bit of backstory to this narrative. For my own sanity and peace of mind I can't give much credence to it being much of an issue without some persuasive arguments and evidence to back them up.

I perhaps should have said "mischaracterization" or something with more vitriol, but I was trying to not come down too hard in order to compensate for having been soured against the writer before reading the actual post. And I didn't really want to go to a vitriolic place anymore than it had already driven me.

Something about lumping blatant abuses of power with more passive privilege also doesn't really set right with me, but I can't quite place my finger on why, per se. It just seems like being able to walk down the street without being catcalled(and, even if one is, the narrative is much more favorable) or not having one's validity called into question if thought of as unattractive are completely different animals from people going out of their way to justify one's wrongdoing.

Granted, I was taught that equality without ending abuse and wrongdoing was a farce, so that might tie into my perspective.

You can argue the definition of equality and the degree to which 'men are allowed to so bad things and it's okay' is true. But the idea of reconfiguring societal morals from the ground up instead of just reconfiguring standing morals until you kludge them into a working enough form to be acceptable is a good one.

It does seem to beat the alternative if those are the only two options on the table, yes. It especially seems to beat trying to kludge societal morals without a real goal of where you want them to end up.

Myself, I have to wonder why a blog that lists inclusiveness for all has a logo that happily proclaims "forever bathing in your male tears", but hey.

It does seem to either be that or dismiss it out of hand, but the people who wholeheartedly agreed with it, and the one person who reblogged it and apologized for not being able to say "kill all the men!" yet would seem to offer some third viewpoint which I cannot fathom. Perhaps it's one of those examples of the blogger demonstrating sarcasm that will never be denoted as sarcasm and one is supposed to get it immediately or identify one's self as not the right kind of person or stupid in the eyes of the blogger and thus to be dismissed as less than.

*shrug*

[t209]

Really? The head of animation said that? Well I hope he got a nice round of glares from people s/he worked with. And at least your trailers indicated something of substance; literally the only trailer for Frozen I've seen (I'm in the UK for the reference) involves a . . . talking animal - I almost want to say it's a snowman, but I just don't want it to be - and a male in some form of 'comedic moment'. I didn't even know there were two siblings in it, let alone that they were both female!
So that trailer seriously put me off, and I'm a biiiiiiiig fan of Disney's animated works. But I've still heard good things about it, so I'm still going to see it anyway. Besides, the Tangled trailers played up the comedy and that wasn't a complete comedy.
That said, the lack of diversity is a problem, but as with most things, one step at a time. Yeah, it's not great that we have to go one step at a time, but acclimatising people is a good thing.

Dang it. I guess some conservative writers (RH Junior and David Weber), Hayao Miyazaki, Larry Hama's GI Joe run, and even Dredd wrote better female characters.

[Miriel]

I wrote this, which I find thread relevant: "It's permanent"

[TaiLiu]

So, after thinking a lot during the last few years, I have decided for a breast augmentation surgery.
But I am going for the fat grafting breast augmentation option, instead of the usual saline or silicone implants, as I don't want to have an strange body inside my body.
I should have it middle February and the expected result is 50% to 70% more breast volume from what I have now (not that 50% of almost nothing is much, but it is better than the current status quo!).
I shall post about the experience here after it happens and how consistent the results are through the expected 6 months of healing before the result is considered final.

Should prove to be interesting and actually good for my self esteem.

Tell us how it goes, when the time comes!

*nests in the new thread*



So, I've already mentioned BF's aunt, whom I've helped occasionally with stuff, and who's got a bunch of problems, a few of which having to do with the fact she's trans.
Well, I'm worried about her, and it's nothing I can help about.

Spoiler: Trigger warning: potential death

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Long story short, she's not had breast augmentation surgery. She's planning to have that very, very soon; the appointment was already made.
Problem is, she's got a medical condition that is unlikely to be noticed on time during or before the surgery, but that is serious enough that any surgery has to be planned around it. But she never talked about that medical condition to the surgeon. She omitted the fact on purpose.
Her logic being that she's afraid the surgery would be cancelled, not just delayed.
She's going to undergo the surgery this month. I hope everything goes smoothly, but that's not very likely.

My opinion is that I understand the importance the procedure, but you won't get to enjoy the results if you're dead, which is alarmingly likely to happen here, so lying about your health is a terrible idea. But that's just my opinion, and I don't think it's a great idea to share it with her.

(I also suspect she might not mind death so much because her life is spiraling out of control and there's no light at the end of the tunnel. None of those who still speak to her have the means to help her. Would it be right to remind her that if she should die during the surgery, those of us who still care about her will suffer from her decision? I don't know, and there must not be a right answer to this interrogation.)
At any rate, if something goes wrong, regardless of her choice and the direct consequences on her, the surgeon will have to deal with the fallout, even though it's hardly going to be his fault.

Spoiler

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As everyone else said, you should - as a last resort - inform the surgeon. Life is a stream; death is dried, forever and ever.

A friend dropped by tonight, and I tried on her Tudor gown for ****s and giggles.
My god this thing is HUGE! So many layers..

Spoiler

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Oh, my. That is quite a dress!

Petty complaining:

Spoiler

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So, my anxiety therapist misgendered me accidentally today during our session, and while I hadn't shaved properly and was wearing unflattering frumpy guy clothes it still stung hard. And we talked a bunch about misgendering and how to handle it and it just… bleh, was stressful. And I feel pathetic for being so worked up about this and getting a blow in my self-esteem over it. :/

(Also said that I still look more like a boy than a girl, which wasn't really bad in the context cause we were talking about how me being early in transition can be a way to rationalize my fears... but still...)

I mean... the session itself went pretty well and was helpful, I just feel all cruddy right now and am angry at myself cause of it.

The advice she gave made a lot more sense than those youtube videos I have seen.

Ah, care to donate a few snippets?

So now it's out and I feel relieved.

Indeed.

I wrote this, which I find thread relevant: "It's permanent"

Wait, you have a blog? SMEE has her own website, too - perhaps we should start some sort of LGBTAI Internet Address spoiler.

[Miriel]

Wait, you have a blog? SMEE has her own website, too - perhaps we should start some sort of LGBTAI Internet Address spoiler.

At the moment, it's more of a project. It has only two articles for new. Both of them are somewhat GSRM relevant (the first one, less so), but it's not necessarly what the blog is about.

[TaiLiu]

At the moment, it's more of a project. It has only two articles for new. Both of them are somewhat GSRM relevant (the first one, less so), but it's not necessarly what the blog is about.

Ah. What is the desired end result?

[Miriel]

Ah. What is the desired end result?

More articles on history, because that's what I do. Possibly with comparisons to the present, because I can do those on quiet Sunday evenings while drinking a hot chocolate, whereas in-depth historical research is more difficult.

Other news:
1) Quebec has passed a law allowing to have the legal sex change without any surgery!!! Yay, less bureaucracy for me
2) I should get my referral tomorrow! Yay!

[TaiLiu]

More articles on history, because that's what I do. Possibly with comparisons to the present, because I can do those on quiet Sunday evenings while drinking a hot chocolate, whereas in-depth historical research is more difficult.

Neat. Keep us updated!

Other news:
1) Quebec has passed a law allowing to have the legal sex change without any surgery!!! Yay, less bureaucracy for me
2) I should get my referral tomorrow! Yay!

Most excellent!

[Sabeki]

Oh yeah, Quebec! Pretty cool place to live, according to my French teacher, and now confirmed by Catelyn!

[TaiLiu]

Oh yeah, Quebec! Pretty cool place to live, according to my French teacher, and now confirmed by Catelyn!

Pun intended?

[Miriel]

Oh yeah, Quebec! Pretty cool place to live, according to my French teacher, and now confirmed by Catelyn!

Well, as always, "yes and no". I like it here, but there is much stupidity. Political stupidity especially, but I guess the details are not appropriate here. Some of said stupidity is alluded to in said blog in my other article. But I guess it's still much, much better than a large part of the US, especially for GSRM issues.

(I don't know if "Catelyn" was in reference to me, but I'm Caroline.)