OOTS #945 - The Discussion Thread

[Victor227]

Just goes to show Team Tarquin isn't all favors and lone-wolfing. They actually are, or were, a team that cared about each-other at some point, with Mirion looking out for Laurin.

Mind you, gotta wonder why Tarquin never gave Laurin the full run-down on the gates. Was he too distracted at the time? Nale's death and Elan rejecting his narrative structure must have taken a lot out of him. After all, no one's a machine- except maybe Xykon, what with being undead.

[thatSeniorGuy]

1. Kudos to those who guessed that Laurin's favour involved the Rift.
2. Looks like the Snarl got an art upgrade!
3. .... oh crap.

[otakuryoga]

Rule #1: Do NOT telepathically scan the Gawd eating monstrosity thus alerting it to your presence

[Lexible]

I didn't read that thread, but this magic item seems relevant. The crafting cost is pocket change for the Laurinear Guild, and it can produce 30 gallons of water every 6 seconds, without any limit or even a requirement that someone hold it after turning it on. Put it at the top of an aqueduct network (designed by Hannah, no doubt), and you have 432,000 gallons of water per day to use on irrigation and drinking over a large area. It would probably take multiple Decanters to support a large city and all of its associated farmland, but again, the price to make one is trivial on the scale of high-level adventurers and empires, and there's no upkeep or maintenance on the decanters themselves.

It would take many more decanters than that: a square kilometer is 1,000,000 square meters. . . that's not remotely enough farmland for a city, and would, unrealistically assuming no loss to evaporation along the irrigation channels and even distribution, result in less than half a gallon per square meter per day: that's not enough to do more than drip-irrigate the least water intensive crops.

[ImperatorV]

Is it just me, or is Miron pulling Laurin with him as he jumps back? Could our psion be gone for good? Perhaps next strip/next book will feature her failed ressurection, and Taquin realizing she was unmade?

[The Giant]

See, I assumed copy-pasting stars. You put more effort in!

You wouldn't say that if you knew how easy it is to make a new scatter brush.

[Akari Itagami]

Aww laurin is a goner!

[Infinite]

Did NOT see that one coming!

[Keltest]

Aww laurin is a goner!

Well, shes not quite dead yet. I wouldn't be surprised if she was possessed or something, but Miron can be seen dragging her away from the rift.

[sabelo2000]

Also looks like somthing from one of hp lovecraft's stories

ya know, Lovecraft never really described much tentacly horror in his monsters (with the POSSIBLE exception of the Old Ones at the Mountains of Madness). Most of his eldritch monsters were just described as "indescribable". I've always felt that "writhing mess of tentacles" was just a little to mundane.

[blunk]

So no real room for verbal trickery about Soon's and Girard's Rifts leading to different worlds.

Thanks. Wasn't that written and distributed before we got a look through at the world through Girard's Rift, though?

You see where I'm going with that, but my idea is holding less and less water.

You guys give me way too much credit.

The extra credit I gave you was:

[makes randomized star field]
"Oh, that part looks like Orion's belt. People will think..."
"Eh, let them."

Not even that was merited, sounds like.

[Toper]

Theory: The northern gate is gone and this is the Snarls starting to unmake the world.

Recall that as of a few days ago, it seemed intact. I can't really imagine Xykon blowing it up off-camera, so I'm pretty sure it's OK so far.

[Porthos]

Recall that as of a few days ago, it seemed intact. I can't really imagine Xykon blowing it up off-camera, so I'm pretty sure it's OK so far.

24 hours still haven't passed since that strip, believe it or not.

[Amphiox]

Throwaway thoughts:

Hannah Shattersmith is supposedly in the dark about what her mother has been doing. But if Laurin's plan for the rift-ocean had gone through, how long would that have lasted? I mean, an interior decorator, no matter how well connected, isn't likely to easily get access to rifts to other worlds. And if the last plan involving the Plane of Water had advanced far enough that Hannah had been made aware of it, then putting the two together would surely get her to start asking certain questions....

Given what we've seen happening on the Mechane, the time between when Laurin got Tarquin to agree to her favor and no less than 10 minutes, but definitely less than a day. In that time frame Tarquin withdrew his whole force and Laurin put HER forces into the area. Even with the use of that Gate spell, that's impressively efficient troop movement.

However, one notices that Tarquin has left all his fallen soldiers behind to rot in the desert sand. That's cold, man.

Perhaps it is part of the ongoing ruse? The three empires are supposed to be not on friendly terms. The transfer of control over the valley could be spun as a border skirmish which Laurin's empire "won" and Tarquin's empire "lost", and the dead soldiers will be evidence of the altercation.

But that's still cold, man....

[Haar]

I know that thing just popped out of nowhere and murdered a guard, with more deaths to come probably, but...

Soo... Pretty...

Miron better haul. NOW. I can't wait to find out what happens next though.

[Keltest]

Throwaway thoughts:

Hannah Shattersmith is supposedly in the dark about what her mother has been doing. But if Laurin's plan for the rift-ocean had gone through, how long would that have lasted? I mean, an interior decorator, no matter how well connected, isn't likely to easily get access to rifts to other worlds. And if the last plan involving the Plane of Water had advanced far enough that Hannah had been made aware of it, then putting the two together would surely get her to start asking certain questions....

Given what we've seen happening on the Mechane, the time between when Laurin got Tarquin to agree to her favor and no less than 10 minutes, but definitely less than a day. In that time frame Tarquin withdrew his whole force and Laurin put HER forces into the area. Even with the use of that Gate spell, that's impressively efficient troop movement.

However, one notices that Tarquin has left all his fallen soldiers behind to rot in the desert sand. That's cold, man.

Perhaps it is part of the ongoing ruse? The three empires are supposed to be not on friendly terms. The transfer of control over the valley could be spun as a border skirmish which Laurin's empire "won" and Tarquin's empire "lost", and the dead soldiers will be evidence of the altercation.

But that's still cold, man....

Even if she doesn't know the specifics of what goes on, it would be rather difficult to hide the fact that she is at the very least well connected (she was able to get her daughter work from the Weeping King, for example)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Miron's next action better be along the lines of "Calgon, take me away!"

A bowl of nice, soft soup to those who get the reference.

[Amphiox]

Another throwaway thought:

Laurin mentions a *new* city. Not any pre-existing city or any of their current three empires. Her plan seems to have been the establishment of a brand-new settlement where her daughter gets to be a major power-broker by lieu of being in control of the most vital resource. But why a *new* settlement, unless she wanted it to be distinct and independent from the pre-existing ongoing plan? Could this be an indication that Laurin really does, as some had previously speculated, want out of the three-empire scheme?

Or could things in the Western Continent be so chaotic and unsettled that the founding and establishment of brand new cities is still a routine thing?

(It is also notable that even if she does want out, she wants out on terms where she and/or her daughter continue to get to be wealthy, influential, and powerful, hence not just walking away right now.)

[Keltest]

Another throwaway thought:

Laurin mentions a *new* city. Not any pre-existing city or any of their current three empires. Her plan seems to have been the establishment of a brand-new settlement where her daughter gets to be a major power-broker by lieu of being in control of the most vital resource. But why a *new* settlement, unless she wanted it to be distinct and independent from the pre-existing ongoing plan? Could this be an indication that Laurin really does, as some had previously speculated, want out of the three-empire scheme?

Or could things in the Western Continent be so chaotic and unsettled that the founding and establishment of brand new cities is still a routine thing?

(It is also notable that even if she does want out, she wants out on terms where she and/or her daughter continue to get to be wealthy, influential, and powerful, hence not just walking away right now.)

Well, im thinking that having to pump a vital resource across a large expanse of open and unprotected desert would leave it, well, exposed and unprotected. It would be hilariously easy to hold the water hostage.

[DaggerPen]

It would take many more decanters than that: a square kilometer is 1,000,000 square meters. . . that's not remotely enough farmland for a city, and would, unrealistically assuming no loss to evaporation along the irrigation channels and even distribution, result in less than half a gallon per square meter per day: that's not enough to do more than drip-irrigate the least water intensive crops.

Hrm. Do you have any good sources on how much farmland a city might need, and what the irrigation requirements for such a city might be? I'm curious as to the feasibility of the decanter trick now.

[canpinter]

calling it

Spoiler

Show

next page is a big splash page of the world from space, and the threads of the snarl rising up from the desert " end of book"

[Wanderer]

The Rifts are in wildly different places on the Order's planet. Why shouldn't they be in wildly different places on the Snarl's planet?

A matter of scale. The distance required to see an entire planet the way Blackwing did when he looked into the rift is something along the lines of an order of magnitude greater than any possible straight line distance on the surface of a planet. Putting it simply, no matter how far Girard's rift was from Soon's on the Order of the Stick's world, their exits in the other world were several hundred-thousand miles further apart than that.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Or could things in the Western Continent be so chaotic and unsettled that the founding and establishment of brand new cities is still a routine thing?

Founding a new community around a recently discovered source of a valuable material (gold, oil, potable water) is a thing that still happens today, so I see no reason that it wouldn't happen here (if it weren't for the Snarl, natch).

Hrm. Do you have any good sources on how much farmland a city might need, and what the irrigation requirements for such a city might be? I'm curious as to the feasibility of the decanter trick now.

With sufficient decanters, yes, the trick is viable. But at that point, why are you not using resetting traps of Create Food and Water to feed your population (with prestidigitation traps for the foodies)?

[DaggerPen]

With sufficient decanters, yes, the trick is viable. But at that point, why are you not using resetting traps of Create Food and Water to feed your population (with prestidigitation traps for the foodies)?

Oh, you can totally put together enough decanters to do the irrigation trick, yeah. I'm just wondering if it'd be prohibitively expensive even for one city.

You can create resetting traps of Create Food and Water?

[WindStruck]

By the way... did anyone notice the giant did not mark this thread with a smiley? Quite suspicious and foreboding....

Or not.

[Gift Jeraff]

Another throwaway thought:

Laurin mentions a *new* city. Not any pre-existing city or any of their current three empires. Her plan seems to have been the establishment of a brand-new settlement where her daughter gets to be a major power-broker by lieu of being in control of the most vital resource. But why a *new* settlement, unless she wanted it to be distinct and independent from the pre-existing ongoing plan? Could this be an indication that Laurin really does, as some had previously speculated, want out of the three-empire scheme?

Or could things in the Western Continent be so chaotic and unsettled that the founding and establishment of brand new cities is still a routine thing?

(It is also notable that even if she does want out, she wants out on terms where she and/or her daughter continue to get to be wealthy, influential, and powerful, hence not just walking away right now.)

She might just want to establish a city Hannah could live in (and be successful in) away from the empires. Not necessarily one where Laurin would also live.

[Everyl]

Hrm. Do you have any good sources on how much farmland a city might need, and what the irrigation requirements for such a city might be? I'm curious as to the feasibility of the decanter trick now.

It varies a ton based on crops, soil quality, and other local conditions. That's about all I could determine from the websites I Googled up.

However, most crops have a relatively short period of their growing cycle (a matter of weeks) where having lots of water is truly critical. Storing water in a reservoir for most of the year and dispensing it to the irrigation aqueducts during the growing season would be one solution. And, to be perfectly honest, even if you need dozens of decanters to hydrate a zero-water desert city, building and maintaining the aqueducts and irrigation channels is going to be the bulk of the cost; the magic items are a relatively cheap one-time investment.

ETA: I was deliberately ignoring the Create Food and Water trap idea. Yes, for less than the wealth-by-level of the 5th-level cleric who has the prerequisites to make it, it's possible to make a "trap" that creates enough food and water to feed 15 people for a day, and can be triggered once every 6 seconds.

It's not the most broken thing you can do with 3.5 trap-creation rules, either.

[Amphiox]

Founding a new community around a recently discovered source of a valuable material (gold, oil, potable water) is a thing that still happens today, so I see no reason that it wouldn't happen here (if it weren't for the Snarl, natch).

Well, usually in the real world, when a new valuable resource is found, people come to exploit it and a community organically grows around those people, and the services they themselves require. Whether the community becomes a city depends on lots of factors including the value of the resource, the ease with which it can be exported back to the markets that need it, how much of the resource there is, whether it is more economical to establish a large community on-site or instead to come, extract, leave, and return, and so forth.

This model applied to the comic situation would be for water merchants to come to the rift, extract and de-salinate water, and then ship it back out to other places in the Western Continent to sell. (This of course raises the issue of protecting that resource in transit that was brought up in another post)

But Laurin seems to be talking about something far more pre-planned than that, she says "enough water to *support* a new city", as if her plans were for the water to be primarily used in-situ, by the people of the new city. So it isn't as much as a commercial venture that organically grows into a city, but a plan already envisioned to create a new city, and a search for/attempt to create the necessary resources to do so. Like when Pharaoh Akenaten decided to build a new capital city (Amarna) in the middle of the desert for religious reasons.

[DaggerPen]

It varies a ton based on crops, soil quality, and other local conditions. That's about all I could determine from the websites I Googled up.

However, most crops have a relatively short period of their growing cycle (a matter of weeks) where having lots of water is truly critical. Storing water in a reservoir for most of the year and dispensing it to the irrigation aqueducts during the growing season would be one solution. And, to be perfectly honest, even if you need dozens of decanters to hydrate a zero-water desert city, building and maintaining the aqueducts and irrigation channels is going to be the bulk of the cost; the magic items are a relatively cheap one-time investment.

ETA: I was deliberately ignoring the Create Food and Water trap idea. Yes, for less than the wealth-by-level of the 5th-level cleric who has the prerequisites to make it, it's possible to make a "trap" that creates enough food and water to feed 15 people for a day, and can be triggered once every 6 seconds.

It's not the most broken thing you can do with 3.5 trap-creation rules, either.

Huh! Yeah, no wonder the OOTS is such a low-optimization world. Sounds like Laurin's failed experiment with the Plane of Water was probably about as much optimization as we're going to get with this stuff.

[Vespification]

I've got to say, looking at the "shape" of the thing in the last panel makes nauseous. Very good, I say, if the art manages to elicit a physical reaction.

Even more disturbing is that we can't see the Snarl's face. That's not its main body... that's just a single arm, and probably just the tip. This thing is HUGE.