OOTS #991 - The Discussion Thread

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Whose sibling is Thirden?

"Your father? I don't really know. The five of us didn't become friends with your mother until right before you were born."

If he was Sigdi's brother, why would he become friends with her?

If he was Tenrin's brother, why would he not know what he was like?

Thirden's response would make more sense if the question were "Why was Ma in love with Pa?", but Durkon asked the more general "What was 'e like?".

Color me confused...

Good observation, Colanderman.

Perhaps Thirden is a amily friend that is simply called uncle? That's quite common in real life and fiction. Or, he could be a cousin to Sigdi. In big families like mine, any not-immediate-not-distant relative within ten years of your age is a cousin, younger counts as niece or nephew, older counts as aunt or uncle.

Trust me, t's easier than explaining:

"Bob is the son of Albert, who is Henry's brother. Henry was my grandma's second husband." or finding a good term for such a non-blood-related relative.

[Shining Wrath]

I think it's too facile to say that Thirden outright lied to young Durkon. It would have been easier to fall back on "Your mom forbids it" rather than create an elaborate lie, and more honorable - Thirden may be a bard and therefore a story-crafter, but he's a dwarf, not known for deliberate deception of children.

And the reason Sigdi doesn't want the story known is that she's Sigdi, and she should have saved her husband AND slain the troll, because that was her duty. Remember her holding a grown man up over the edge of a cliff when we first saw her? "Di. Nae. Let. Go". She says that as she slides toward the abyss. Failure is not an option, so when she does "fail", however excusably, she will not speak of it.

Now did Thirden perhaps leave some details out? That I can believe. But I can also believe that Durkon's mom does not want to relieve the day her valor and skill at weapons failed.

[Doug Lampert]

There's a whole panel spent just establishing an item that could be used to resurrect Tenrin, if the story is indeed accurate.

Nope.

So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be resurrected, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death.

A lock of his beard your mother carried.

It wasn't part of him at the time of death, it can't be used for the resurrection spell.

[Kantaki]

Whose sibling is Thirden?

"Your father? I don't really know. The five of us didn't become friends with your mother until right before you were born."

If he was Sigdi's brother, why would he become friends with her?

If he was Tenrin's brother, why would he not know what he was like?

Thirden's response would make more sense if the question were "Why was Ma in love with Pa?", but Durkon asked the more general "What was 'e like?".

Color me confused...

Thirden is Durkons uncle in the honorary, friend of the family sense not in the brother of a parent sense. And he can't tell D much about Tenrin because he didn't really know him outside work.

[Draz74]

Add me to the faction that believes Tenrin was Durkon's real father, because Thirden "believes a dwarf should know his ancestry, especially whether his own father died with honor."

But I could totally see Zarzar's theory that the dungeon in question was actually Kraagor's Gate-Protection.

That leaves a few questions:
- Was Serini still kicking around Kraagor's Gate all that time ago?
- Is the shocked priest Hurak, and was there maybe a prophecy about Durkon even before he was born?
- Why is Hoskin featured if he's not the real father?

[Peelee]

"The details don't interest me at all, but yes, I'm glad to have one less question hanging unanswered. Once the Godsmoot begins, I will need to focus on the task at hand. I don't want to waste any energy satisfying idle curiosity."

Methinks the vampire doth protest too much.

Why would the vampire lie to Durkon? From what we can tell Durkon can never escape, barring the vampire's destruction, and is virtually powerless. The vampire has no reason to lie to or even mislead Durkon, other than his own insecurities (which I doubt is a factor here).

[The Giant]

Whose sibling is Thirden?

He is nobody's sibling. He is not literally Durkon's biological uncle, he is an adult friend of his mother's whom Durkon has been raised to think of and address as his uncle. The same with Uncle Hoskin and Aunt Shirra and the other two as-yet-unnamed adults seen in #958 and #962 (Shirra is the blonde woman).

[Hazetar]

Spoiler: Speculation

Show

Speculation: Durkon's father was part of the order of the crayon.

Wild Speculation:

Spoiler

Show

If we add think somewhat mathematically, Durkon is roughly 0 years old in this one. If he's roughly 18 or so when he's in Cleric school, and he's been bald for 40 years, it might make sense that this half-dragon troll could have been part of the maze of Kraagor's Gate, given that it was 60-odd years ago when the gates were originally made. What if the dwarven team saw all sorts of baddies in that cave, and the dwarven authorities forbade everyone of speaking of what actually happened after the cave was ordered collapsed? I bet Sigdi was devastated that her love was sent to die in a suicide mission, and she'll never have her arm regenerated because she doesn't ever want to forget the dark cost of dwarven duty. Also, finding Kraagor's gate might lead to Durkon's father's remains (plus or minus an arm).

Also, Hoskin is likely not Durkon's father, but just really likes strong, gruff women. I mean, he is a dwarf after all, I bet that's a common attraction.

May I ask why we are trying to have second deep over here? I see no reason that Uncle Squeaky would lie to little Durkon. We are given a strip full of answers about Durkon and his family past draw with awesome style so...

New comic is up.

I would like to thank Mr. Burlew for that!

[pendell]

Now that's an interesting tale told in crayon-vision. Thank you!

I ponder, however ... was this purely a bit of backstory to satisfy the audience's curiosity, or will it become important, somehow...?

I guess we'll find out!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Mad Humanist]

May I ask why we are trying to have second deep over here? I see no reason that Uncle Squeaky would lie to little Durkon. We are given a strip full of answers about Durkon and his family past draw with awesome style so...

We're trying to read the subtext. Or perhaps the subsubtext, or possibly the subsubsubtext, or maybe even...

[Burner28]

Love the character insight into Sigdi. Great strip.

[Peelee]

May I ask why we are trying to have second deep over here?

You seem to have misread my post. I believe the sapper is Durkon's father.

[Keltest]

He is nobody's sibling. He is not literally Durkon's biological uncle, he is an adult friend of his mother's whom Durkon has been raised to think of and address as his uncle. The same with Uncle Hoskin and Aunt Shirra and the other two as-yet-unnamed adults seen in #958 and #962 (Shirra is the blonde woman).

Speaking of 958, did you deliberately lessen Thirden's dwarven accent in the latest comic, or was it an oversight from him only having one line the last time he showed up?

[Shining Wrath]

He is nobody's sibling. He is not literally Durkon's biological uncle, he is an adult friend of his mother's whom Durkon has been raised to think of and address as his uncle. The same with Uncle Hoskin and Aunt Shirra and the other two as-yet-unnamed adults seen in #958 and #962 (Shirra is the blonde woman).

And so we find that sometimes the obvious answer is the correct one. You do realize that you just shut down a promising 250 post argument, depriving your website of thousands of page views?

[Hazetar]

We're trying to read the subtext. Or perhaps the subsubtext, or possibly the subsubsubtext, or maybe even...

The subtext is that "cleaver and heroic young seregant" was Durkon mother and "team's sapper" is Durkon father.

I guess pepole love conspiracy theories.

You seem to have misread my post. I believe the sapper is Durkon's father.

For that I'm sorry. I corrected my mistake in previous post.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, that was rather sad. I am glad that we finally get to hear this story, though. Also, I love seeing the crayons once more!

Edit: I do agree that something with this story feels off. Can't quite determine what, though.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Mark me down as another who loved the crayons and the story. Also, I also think that the last gate will be involved somehow, and that Durkon isn't giving the vampire the most complete story.

By the way, I love all the little details in the cave.

[Avaris]

Had a thought I'm surprised no-one has mentioned.

Spoiler: speculation on Durkon's motive

Show

This story is a weapon for Durkon.

It's true, but not the whole truth. Who would Durkon have told the truth to? His best friend, Roy. Roy, who has his own father issues.

At some point, The high priest of Hel will mention an aspect of this story to Roy, likely about how his dad died a hero or something. And That will be the proof Roy needs that it isn't Durkon.

[Lethologica]

The subtext ist that "cleaver and heroic young seregant" was Durkon mother and "team's sapper" is Durkon father.

I guess pepole love conspiracy theories.

If even young Durkon is able to spot the narrative dissonance, we readers should at least be looking around for the Giant's trail of cookie crumbs. Young Durkon's observation is the Giant outright telling us there's more to the story.

[ti'esar]

Incidentally, Durkon was 55 years old as of a short time ago. Which means that his father's death does indeed fall within the right timeframe to have occurred within Kraagor's Gate's dungeon.

[Mad Humanist]

Had a thought I'm surprised no-one has mentioned.

Spoiler: speculation on Durkon's motive

Show

This story is a weapon for Durkon.

It's true, but not the whole truth. Who would Durkon have told the truth to? His best friend, Roy. Roy, who has his own father issues.

At some point, The high priest of Hel will mention an aspect of this story to Roy, likely about how his dad died a hero or something. And That will be the proof Roy needs that it isn't Durkon.

Several of us have been poking around in this area actually. Welcome to the team I guess...

[wickedcoolghost]

The subtext ist that "cleaver and heroic young seregant" was Durkon mother and "team's sapper" is Durkon father.

I guess pepole love conspiracy theories.

It seems to me that the emphasis that Thirden puts on "completely unrelated" and "subtext" is simply him covering for telling stories he isn't supposed to. It's just plausible deniability.

[Shining Wrath]

Incidentally, Durkon was 55 years old as of a short time ago. Which means that his father's death does indeed fall within the right timeframe to have occurred within Kraagor's Gate's dungeon.

But why would the monsters of Kraagor's Gate be terrorizing local villages? You would think that Kraagor would (1) not want villagers to be terrorized and (2) not want his monsters to leave his dungeon and wander the countryside.

Put me down as dubious that this is related to the last gate. Also put me down as dubious that Durkon can show the HPoH a false memory - but he probably can choose which memory to show, so if he got a more complete version from his mother at a later date, that would work as a way to manipulate HPoH.

[Hazetar]

Mark me down as another who loved the crayons and the story. Also, I also think that the last gate will be involved somehow, and that Durkon isn't giving the vampire the most complete story.

Maybe we will see that powerfull Dragontroll (I named that creature correctly?) in the last dungeon?

If we look at the strip 277 we can assume that Serini could collect that creature to protect the gate. That can be the onyl thing involved from this story to gates.

And I think Durkon is showing this memory to vampire to... Please the audience.

[Mad Humanist]

Also put me down as dubious that Durkon can show the HPoH a false memory - but he probably can choose which memory to show, so if he got a more complete version from his mother at a later date, that would work as a way to manipulate HPoH.

That was the point of 963.

[Mike Havran]

He is nobody's sibling. He is not literally Durkon's biological uncle, he is an adult friend of his mother's whom Durkon has been raised to think of and address as his uncle. The same with Uncle Hoskin and Aunt Shirra and the other two as-yet-unnamed adults seen in #958 and #962 (Shirra is the blonde woman).

Is the Kandro guy/gal mentioned in #963 one of them?

[Mad Humanist]

And I think Durkon is showing this memory to vampire to... Please the audience.

Makes no sense. Throwing spoilers out into the crowd does not in the long run please the audience and resulting crowd frenzy is a health and safety hazard.

[Shining Wrath]

That was the point of 963.

I thought the point of 963 was that the HPoH, never having lived (birthed in Hel's halls), does not realize that living creatures adapt and change based on experience - and then slipped up and used a dwarven accent without realizing.

The question that raises is what change Durkon thinks he might engender in HPoH by showing him this story?

[Ashtagon]

May I ask why we are trying to have second deep over here? I see no reason that Uncle Squeaky would lie to little Durkon. We are given a strip full of answers about Durkon and his family past draw with awesome style so...

I believe that one of Durkon's big sticking points is his inability to tell a lie. His personal character growth arc will be about how he learns to recognise the usefulness of being less than honest and how to use that against HPoH. Note especially that truth and lies are literally the only weapons he has at this time, which he has never really tried to use before. He is learning the art of being an unreliable narrator (to the HpoH) while simultaneously recalling times in his past where he has been on the receiving end of an unreliable narrator.

[Hazetar]

But why would the monsters of Kraagor's Gate be terrorizing local villages? You would think that Kraagor would (1) not want villagers to be terrorized and (2) not want his monsters to leave his dungeon and wander the countryside.

Put me down as dubious that this is related to the last gate. Also put me down as dubious that Durkon can show the HPoH a false memory - but he probably can choose which memory to show, so if he got a more complete version from his mother at a later date, that would work as a way to manipulate HPoH.

Maybe too much information would be fatal to vampire?

Note that The Order did not care too much about Durkon past.