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2017-03-15, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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- New York
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
You know Belkar, if you keep this worrying up, you might start working your way towards Chaotic Neutral.
Avatar by linklele.
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2017-03-15, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
I think the title -- taking the phrase "abandon ship" and reversing it -- is supposed to indicate that the ship abandoned them, rather than vice versa? Still pretty confusing.
The Order of the Stick death pool thread -- place your bets! (Yes, it's still ongoing and maintained.)
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2017-03-15, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
I don't get it. Why would that giant snow woman be afraid to take credit for her work and own strenght? Why would she willingly downplay herself and then blame it on her male colleagues?
Sounds kinda dumb to me.
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2017-03-15, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
I get the joke - that she feels sexist pressure not to overshadow her male colleagues. But it just doesn't work that well in this context; partially because the giants have gender-integrated combat units and partially because the intention of hyping up the bad situation Roy's in is unnecessary because we already know he's massively screwed.
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2017-03-15, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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2017-03-15, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Nowhere
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Ah, something witty and away from the whole infuriating scene. Nice change of pace. Great to get an update a bit quicker than the previous one too.
Belkar quips are back and nice to see development all around. It's pretty easy for Haley to snap back at Belkar's ill mannered snipes (the one on this page not as mean-spirited as most before. guy's developing more than he's letting on... or I'm just reading too much into things) and V hardly begrudgingly objects anymore with aiding the little devil.
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2017-03-15, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
This makes no sense. Her comment only works if she's in an integrated combat unit. Her complaint is that there is pressure put on her to not overshadow less-able male fighters. If there weren't integrated combat units, how would she be pressured to not overshadow male fighters she doesn't fight next to?
GWLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2017-03-15 at 01:50 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-03-15, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
That they have gender-integrated combat units only means that's a particular sphere where overt, institutional sexism doesn't prevail. It doesn't say anything about more subtle forms of sexism.
ungelic is us
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2017-03-15, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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- Raleigh NC
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
An update! Sweet, it's like an early Christmas present! :)
Andi's bad decisions keep piling up; in the time it takes for V and company to hunt them down there's no telling how much damage the giantess will do.
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
"As for the rest, I'd like to take a moment to compliment your dedication to rational discussion. You are a gentleperson and a scholar, and I salute you."
-- DaedalusMkV
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2017-03-15, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Likewise. Though I suppose, if we're about to have one Mechane "on the rocks", probably good to show that everyone else is okay first.
Presumably it won't be hard for them to catch up, either. Should be able to get enough altitude to see the Mechane with V and Haley's flight, I'd imagine, if absolutely nothing else.
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2017-03-15, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
So, uh, the giants have no problem with integrating women into their fighting lots (where one weak link in the chain might spell doom for all) but at the same time they don't feel like acknowledging their strenght? How does that work?
And while she's the one who chooses to cave in to the pressure, rather than bringing the fight where it belongs - her own frost giant society - she chooses to bitch and complain when nobody's around to hear?
Well I guess that's frost giants for you.
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2017-03-15, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2017-03-15, 02:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah. It's yet another example of the glass (ice?) ceiling at work again.
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2017-03-15, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Because of all the forms of sexism that might exist in a gender-integrated combat unit, having anyone perform less-than-their best seems fairly low down based purely on the fact that you won't last very long.
I'm not ruling out the possibility of women being denied a shot at higher ranks, or maltreated off the battlefield, but that specific form of sexism seems like something that wouldn't happen on the actual battlefield.
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2017-03-15, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
It's actually pretty common among sexist people. Expecting people of the other gender to do things for them while still thinking they're inherently inferior.
Leaving the debate of "choosing to cave" aside, she's saying right now that it's her opportunity to go "no, he didn't do it, I did, and no one can deny it".
It could also be that Frost Giants have a culture of self-sacrifice and humility after battle/never-speak-ill-of-the-dead kind of deal (given that their god at least oppose the Northern deities who are all about glory in battle and singing your awesome deeds), and that she's sick and tired of having to credits those who were weak enough to die.
Well, bigotry is not rational, so trying to find the logic of it can be pretty confusing.Last edited by Unoriginal; 2017-03-15 at 02:19 PM.
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2017-03-15, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Also, note that she's the only female frost giant warrior we've seen.
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2017-03-15, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-03-15, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
That's not what she said. She said that even if she does perform better, she is pressured to say that the male fighters did most of the work - i.e. she does the work, they get the medals.
Like hroşila said, there is plenty examples in RL of this very situation going on, in the military and in many other fields.
GWLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2017-03-15 at 02:19 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-03-15, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
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2017-03-15, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Not true, there were some clerics. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1052.html
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2017-03-15, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2017-03-15, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2016
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- SoCal
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Ah, good, a brief breath of funny amidst all the Andi. I'm liking it.
Also damn, Roy. Think of something.Even the wind will know agony.
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2017-03-15, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
That's clerics, not warriors, as I specifically called out.
Thinking about it, the giantess may now be the highest leveled person in the tribe. And the Jarl might've been in with those casters. Can you say promotion?Last edited by Rogar Demonblud; 2017-03-15 at 02:27 PM.
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2017-03-15, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-03-15, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
What do you mean? She's not doing anything for them, she's fighting with them. And in a group one single weakling can mean doom for the whole party.
Remember 300, when Leonidas refused to let Ephialtes join their ranks because he was unable to cover the flank of the men beside him? That's the point. If she's perceived as a weakling fighter by them, would they let her fight with their elite ranks in the first place? No.
Which means they do know she's strong enough to pull her own weight, meaning that there's no reason for her to conceal her own strenght.
I don't know, it just makes no sense other than attempting to deliver a real-world social message that sounds kinda clumsy and awkward in this context.
It could also be that Frost Giants have a culture of self-sacrifice and humility after battle/never-speak-ill-of-the-dead kind of deal (given that their god at least oppose the Northern deities who are all about glory in battle and singing your awesome deeds), and that she's sick and tired of having to credits those who were weak enough to die.
And if the Frost Giant's culture is one of "humility and never speaking ill of the dead" that means all dead equally, not just because most happen to be males, meaning that her throwing a fit at Roy is totally out of personal bias there.
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2017-03-15, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2016
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- Belgium
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
But say two male (or two female) giants had jumped on the ship. Would the superior warrior not have been unwilling to share credit anyway?
The gender divide makes it more obvious perhaps, yes. But wouldn't this whole argument have been inevitable?
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2017-03-15, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2016
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Why should we believe that she would have lasted long either? Roy is special - he's far above the power level that these Giants were prepared for. If he hadn't lost his sword she'd almost certainly be dead by now.
Also, on the subject of numbers, I count about 3 or 4 ladies here:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1050.htmlLast edited by Spellbreaker26; 2017-03-15 at 02:37 PM.
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2017-03-15, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
Ganbatte, have you ever seen a Lily Tomlin/Jane Fonda movie called 9 to 5? It might explain the whole concept of "woman does all the work, man gets all the credit" better than a message board can.
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2017-03-15, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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- Dallas, TX
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2017-03-15, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1068 - The Discussion Thread
So if they fight people stronger then they are, it doesn't matter, and if they fight people weaker than they are, I think we can safely assume it doesn't matter.... so this system would only mean that the less competent wouldn't last long with the other one holding back, but only for a narrow range of skilled enemies?