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Thread: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2017-12-04, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
CH13:
Leia freezes for a heartbeat. It's too late to go anywhere without being seen. She could cut a hole through the back wall and duck out while the Imperials are entering, but sealing the hole is a problem. Then they hear the assault bombers, which mean there's no way they can escape out the lightsabre hole. They have to hide in the dukha itself. There's just enough space for Chewbacca and Leia, but 3PO has to be suspended overhead in a hanging star dish. Chewbacca climbs the pillars and puts him there,hen makes the booth before the Imperials enter.
Leia hears the voice, which by itself has 'an authority that surpassed even the smug condescension she'd faced from Governor Tarkin'. These books really do love Thrawn.
Leia very unwisely tries to get a look at the newcomer, but gets away with it.
Khararakh immediately gets in trouble for backtalk, as Thrawn picks up on his nerves. Traditionally, lying to your lord is death among the Noghri. Thrawn places Khabarakh under arrest, which violates Noghri traditions, but Thrawn doesn't care despite invoking said traditions two pages ago. He pulls a Tarkin, threatening the maitrakh with 'a reminder' and then doing it anyway after she gives in to the threat.
The Chimaera is firing into the nearby hills as an object lesson, and Khabarakh is to be taken to Nystao to the clans prior to interrogation aboard the Chimaera.
Thrawn leaves, leaving Leia and Chewbacca stranded in the village. Well, that's unfortunate.
Let that be a lesson to NPCs everywhere... never be nice to protagonists. It rarely ends well.
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2017-12-04, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2017-12-04, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-12-04, 08:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-12-05, 08:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Indeed.
Being compared to TARKIN is not a compliment...ever...A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”
01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110
Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”
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2017-12-05, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2017-12-05, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2017-12-05, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
There's also an element of "From the voice alone, she can tell that it's a real Grand Admiral and not a fake":
She’d heard Han’s description of the man he’d seen on Myrkr - the pale blue skin, the glowing red eyes, the white Imperial uniform. She’d heard, too, Fey’lya’s casual dismissal of the man as an impostor, or at best a self-promoted Moff. And she’d wondered privately if Han might indeed have been mistaken.
She knew now that he hadn’t been.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2017-12-05, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
I'm also still shaking my head at the presumption that "these books emphasize that the villain is impressive" is supposed to be a legitimate criticism.
Somehow, I doubt Sapphire Guard spent the first few minutes of Star Wars (the movie) going, "What, this caped guy has his own theme song? Come on!"Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-12-05, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2017-12-05, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
That voice had the unmistakable tone of an Imperial Commander, but with a calmness and sheer weight of authority behind it. An authority that surpassed even the smug condescension she'd faced from Governor Tarkin aboard the Death Star
If it's a more humanized Thrawn you're looking for, your be better off with Outbound Flight or the new Thrawn novel. And by humanized, I mean "much less egotistical power tripping Thrawn." Though still a big egotistical.
The character himself isn't a problem, just how every single scene (I don't think I'm exaggerating) is set up for him to one up someone. There's always a convenient nearby problem or conclusion that only Thrawn knows the solution to. But I'm repeating myself.
CH14:
Luke arrives on Jomark, to find that it looks a lot like the maps. He can sense C'Baoth, but not home in on him. So he has R2 run a sensor focus. Jomark's basically one small island, but there are thousands of even smaller ones. Hmm. Wonder if Luke's refuge in TLJ took any inspiration from this.
R2 scans for population, and most of its on the coast, but Luke's eye is caught by one particular lake that seems like a good place for a Jedi to live in seclusion. He flies lower until noting a particular mansion and decides to start there. By the time he finishes landing, C'Baoth has come out to say hello.
C'Baoth welcomes him, then complains that he's late. Luke pleads circumstances beyond his control, which is the wrong thing to say, as Jedi are meant to control their surroundings.
"I must have gone through four Imperial attacks since I first started out this way."
C'Baoth looked at him sharply. "Did you, now. Were they directed specifically at you?"
C'Baoth brings up Leia, and the reason he called him. He plans to complete Luke's training... and needs his help, as he's getting old. Luke asks about enlisting C'Baoth in the republic for 'justice'
Do not look to lesser beings for justice, Jedi Skywalker
They get in a cart and go down to the village. Luke tries to find out if C'Baoth was serving the Emperor and gets called on it. C'Baoth says he was out of reach for most of his reign, then trails off. He mentions Mara's uncertain force grip, and Luke mentions he knows her.
Then they move back to the Outbound Flight, and C'Baoth says he's the last survivor and came back changed, but refuses to elaborate.
They arrive at a village, where C'Baoth has a throne for justice dispensing, but this time they just sense aggression, and go in to discover two armed men. C'Baoth listens to their stories and dispenses judgement, favouring one party. Luke, more inclined to compromise has misgivings but lets it stand, and the guilty party dips for a weapon. C'baoth force lightnings him in response.
If you allow your justice to be forgotten, you will be forced to repeat the same lessons again and again.
Luke then goes to visit R2. No mystery plants or Darkside caves. He's not sure what to make of this new Jedi, Yoda messed with his expectations too, but didn't have the same hard edge. All that said, he doesn't have the aura of a Darksider, so Luke concludes he's probably just insane. Feeling oddly fatigued, he mentions that C'Baoth might possibly have gone insane due to being anchored to someone else while dying. So he wants to help C'Baoth if he can. It might not be the most efficient use of his time, but back on Coruscant he told himself he couldn't get too removed from individuals.
So, we finally arrive on Jomark after first hearing about it fairly early in book 1, and it's a very good chapter. Assuming it's not C'Baoth influencing his brain, the extent of compassion Luke is capable of is a great thing to spend time on. He's not completely gullible or suborned, but staying to help an old insane man. The non combat parts of Jedi-ing are nice to spend time on.
Another thing I like about these books is that there's no unnecessary cliffhangers, they didn't put this chapter after the 'Thrawn's coming back' chapter ending just to build suspense, I appreciate that.
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2017-12-05, 02:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
That's an excellent idea, and something I hadn't thought about. There is absolutely at least one major spoiler in there. Sorry.
Spoiler: Potential spoilers depending on which books you read first. tl;dr - IMO you should totally do Thrawn Duology once you've wrapped up the trilogy.The Pellaeon analog is one of my favorite characters in the EU. Of course, reading the Thrawn Duology first helps, since they give him a lot of buildup.
Also, I agree that the newest Thrawn wasn't as good.
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2017-12-06, 01:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
"Details? Well, there was an attack on my friends mining station where thrawn was stealing mining bots. There was the random interdictor chasing down a freighter I stumbled across, with destroyer escort of course. Some stormtroopers I had to get past to get off a planet. And there was the shipyard raid where thrawn used the stolen mining robots to try stealing warships."
If the freighter wasnt there, I'd agree with you, but thrawn covered himself from the "Directed at you" question being asked.
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2017-12-06, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
The problem is that Thrawn was there under the name of his own flagship. Which plays into his fatal flaw of ego and often just not believing he his plans could ever ultimately fail. Short term surrender or set backs he can accept but I sometimes think he just cannot fathom a world where things don't come together.
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If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.
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2017-12-06, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2017-12-06, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
There are many ways it could come up.
"Why didn't you come when you got my call?"
"I left immediately for this planet, but a Star Destroyer intercepted me."
(Hmm...that's directly after I told Thrawn a)where you were, and b) where you were going.) "I see...was it directed specifically at you?"
"I don't think so. It intercepted a freighter, then hailed me by coincidence. What was it called again R2?"
Sorry for bringing us back here, thread.
CH15:
Senator Bel Ibliss is regaling Han and Lando with war stories, about hitting a particular Imperial base and how that got the Empire on their backs so they had to stay mobile, hence the base being built out of materials that can be folded up in short order. Lightning storms unfold them, so there are some drawbacks.
They get drinks, and Han notices Lando being a bit cold to their host. Anyway, Fey'lya helped out the Senator a few times, but nothing major. The Senator is a bit suspicious of Mon Mothma, probably courtesy of Fey'lya, but Han knows nothing particularly incriminating about her.
Lando wonders why the Senator didn't join the rebellion. He doesn't like the security leaks, especially the one out of the Imperial palace known as Delta Source. Well, that makes this Senator very well informed.
s
His duties call the Senator away, and Lando outlines his suspicions. The camp has been around longer than a few months, so they've been quiet. Lando thinks this might be some kind of coup deal with the Bothans...or worse, an Imperial scam. Give Fey'lya a pretend army to cause trouble with the Rebellion, infighting.
They go back to their room, and Lando plays with the furniture, where he discovers it's blue gold...which just so happens to be the decoration of Katana Fleet. That's suspicious enough that Han's hackles are up now too, so they go looking for answers.
Well, Katana fleet has turned out to be a lot more than the fleeting reference I thought it was. Even the interior decorating is famous.
Simplest explanation is that Senator Iblis just bought a freighter from Karrde, if Thrawn knew where the fleet was, he wouldn't need to raid for ships. Or else the Senator found it himself. Hope that virus that killed everyone aboard isn't just hibernating or something.
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2017-12-06, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
I dunno, I still think youre worrying about an oddly specific scenario. Yes, it wouldn't be great for Thrawn if Luke were to name drop him, but its not completely game ending, and his flagship isn't unique enough to ne noteworthy to anyone not already closely familiar with Thrawn.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2017-12-06, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Don't be sorry! If it bugs you, it's totally worth bringing up.
Though why Luke would bother to specify to Joruus which specific ship it was freely is a bit silly; I just can't see him volunteering that information for no reason coming up organically. Similarly, C'Baoth asking which specific ship also would be very difficult to achieve organically, without making it seem as if he was Imperial-allied.
Spoiler: Really big spoilerWhy yes, I did use C'baoth's clone name right by Skywalker's to allude to Luuke's appearance later on as a super subtle teaser for Sapphire Guard.
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2017-12-06, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Honestly, I think the whole ambush scenario is best explained by the fact that Thrawn is annoyed at C'Baoth when he does it. Tactically speaking, there's no point, because the plan will only work if Luke is already heading to the place they're going to deliver himIt's basically an attempt to one-up C'Baoth, by presenting him with a gift-wrapped Luke Skywalker right after being told "no, you clearly can't handle this job". You're right that the freighter-as-cover-story* is a little thin, but I don't think Thrawn cares very much if C'Baoth sees through it. Yes, he'd be pissed, but a) Thrawn is confident that he can talk him into continuing to cooperate, and b) Thrawn kind of wants to piss him off. The whole thing is basically a power play/fit of pique.
*Although one could argue that it's aimed more at Luke than C'Baoth, to stop him from wondering about how they knew where he was going. In this, at least, it appears successful.Last edited by The_Snark; 2017-12-06 at 10:54 PM.
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2017-12-07, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Plus, I think that if Thrawn did indeed captured Luke, he could have played the card "he cannot be that great of a Jedi if he let ME capture him", which I think would be very effective on CBaoth, considering his arrogance.
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2017-12-07, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
I think there's an excellent chance that Thrawn thought he could talk his way out of ambushing Luke and couldn't have actually done so.
SpoilerRelating to C'Baoth seems to very much highlight Thrawn's weaknesses, actually--he's not very good at manipulating him and his plans to deal with the threat C'Baoth ultimately poses to him are entirely inadequate, apparently because he can't make himself take someone irrational seriously.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-12-07, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
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2017-12-07, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
I believe he said he wasn't sure if he wanted to hand Luke over to C'Baoth or not, but wanted to leave the option open to him.
CH16:
Lando and Han go back to the lounge, where they can find proof of the Katana fleet theory. Lando knows a lot about the fleet because he got scammed with a fake map once upon a time and studied up so he could pull the same trick.
Han asks the bartender to get something from the backroom and follows him out to keep him occupied. When he comes back, Lando's at gunpoint. Good omen.
Sena drives them around and they talk for a bit. Apparently she came to ask a favour, which makes the gunpoint approach slightly unnecessary. She wants Han to ask Mon Mothma to invite the Senator back onboard the Alliance. He defected in the early days, after being influential early on but being gradually sidelined by Mon Mothma. So the Senator is stuck because he can't swallow his pride and go back to her.
Han tries to strike a deal re Katana fleet in trade for the assist on re-entry, but Sena doesn't know about it. But they haven't promised them to Fey'lya either, he's politically minded, not military, he's just trying to talk the Senator back for the prestige. But he's probably not behind the bank transfer, as he's more of an opportunist than an active plotter.
Anyway, Han figures that sooner or later the 'Grand Admiral' will come to scoop up their ships. At least they don't know where the ships are, because they bought them from Karrde on a gambling ship. Sena agrees to let them leave.
Ibliss is waiting by their ship by coincidence, initially suspecting betrayal when he sees Sena. He would like to go back to the Alliance, but doesn't have 'anything to bring'. Although his military record is respectable.
Anyway he agrees to send them back to Bel Cov, certain that the Imperials won't still be there. Making assumptions about Thrawn seldom works out well, but we'll see. They say their farewells as well as the usual 'Betray him, and you deal with me' threat from Sena.
Thrawn reads a report noting that the Falcon is on Endor. He's confused by this, and it actually leads him to believe that Khabarakh was deliberately released as a distraction, and so won't bother interrogating him, so that first mistake has snowballed a bit. If the Noghri do interrogate Khabarakh, maybe Leia will get to make her speech after all. Thrawn thinks she might be looking for the location of Mount Tantiss, which is taking a long time to do whatever it is it's doing.
Just before they jump to Lightspeed, they get a report that one of Talon Karrde's freighters has been captured, and Thrawn reads the interrogation report as they leave.
So this politics is getting more interesting, this Senator has an interesting story assuming he's telling the truth. Fey'lya is probably exonerated of actually framing Ackbar. The more people know Karrde has the fleet, the more likely he is to get hunted down, and the Empire has already picked up his trail. Thrawn makes his first true mistake, although whether this just wastes his time or costs him the Noghri remains to be determined.
Edit: That modified probe droid is still in the village, right? So he'll find out eventually.Last edited by Sapphire Guard; 2017-12-07 at 03:23 PM.
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2017-12-07, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-12-07, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
I think Thrawn's initial mistake is simply assuming that nobody would ever be stupid enough to come in Honoghr, where he has full allegiance of the population at a deep, cultural level.
Which is a bit puzzling, since he doesnt seem to understand that the Noghri might supercede their loyalty to Him with the loyalty they feel toward Darth Vader. For a man so proud of his understanding of other species' psyches.
SpoilerI think one of the blind spot that exist in this trilogy of book - highlighted in Book 3 - is that the galaxy at large... Just doesn't know that Skywalker and Leia were the children of Darth Vader.
Knowledge of that fact has been branded in our memory so deeply, the idea that someone does not know it is almost alien to us.
Thrawn didnt knew Leia was Darth Vader's daughter. Its not that he doesn't understand the noghris, its that there is a deep secret he is unaware of. I left the misdirection in the unspoiler to satisfy Saphire Guard's dislike of Thrawn ;)
As you saw, Thrawn then refuses to acknowledge he made an error. As you just said, he is snowballing in his erroneous assumptions. His Error becomes a Mistake.
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2017-12-07, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2017-12-07, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
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My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
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2017-12-07, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2017-12-07, 03:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
Blog Read and Comment! I use green for joking and Blue for sarcasm.
Published two Kindle Books on Amazon, both are 99 cents. Ask Me about them!
My First Let's Play -- Temporary Haitus (I plan to get back to it eventually)
(Yes, I happen to despise Game of Thrones, and the Book Series it is based on. I am Team Wight/Other. Kill all those humans!)
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2017-12-08, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Heir to the Empire
That's presuming that the droid reports in on a schedule. It could just deliver all of it's information later all at one time. Was it said what kind of reporting detail, the droid had?
There is also the fact that both Han and Lando have meet Karrde face to face, so if Karrde was described to them, they would be able to identify it as being Karrde.
I think Thrawn's initial mistake is simply assuming that nobody would ever be stupid enough to come in Honoghr, where he has full allegiance of the population at a deep, cultural level.]
CH17:
Mara wanders through Abregado spaceport, not really a fan of places like this. She's here to spring theEtherway out of impoundment. Her contact is a dark haired young man that can't hide his military bearing. She gives the code phrases, and he introduces himself as Wedge. She identifies him as a pilot, and he offers to escort her out, which would be a touch too conspicuous. Wedge asks about whether she can sell information on 'our friend with the eyes'.
She gets into orbit and her force senses tingle, so she powers the engine hard, but the ISD is already on an intercept course. She wonders if Wedge is the target, but 'a single X wing pilot could hardly be important enough to tie up a Victory class Star Destroyer. It doesn't seem to me like she's any higher value, they're only being hunted because Thrawn holds a grudge, but anyway, she's hailed by the ISD.
Note to Self: Star Destroyer Adamant.. Joining the Judicator, Death's Head, Relentless, Stormhawk, Nemesis, Chimaera. I've probably forgotten a few.
With her options limited, she says hello to the ISD and asks to be transported to Thrawn. The Captain doesn't quite buy it until she gives an old Emperor's Hand recognition code.
The ISD locks her up on board while they go find Thrawn, moving very fast, which makes her a very high value target to be using an ISD like a taxi. They do flit back and forth a bit from 'You don't use a Star Destroyer if you don't want to be noticed' to 'yeah let's divert this entire ship for the sake of this one fighter/freighter/target'
They bring her to Endor, which she's not a fan of.
She's escorted into Thrawn's presence, and asks him why Endor. He tells her it's unconnected...possibly. Then he asks for proof of who she is, so she talks about meeting him during his promotion and picks out a particular dress decoration as proof.
Thrawn asks why she's here and
YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER
He gives her eight days to bring back the location or there's no deal.
Later, he catches that Ibliss's fleet is Katana fleet, and that someone other than Karrde supplied them. He wants Ferrier to focus on Solo and Calrissian in the hope of finding the fleet.
Mara has a beacon on her ship, and the Chimaera is following her to Karrde and the fleet, in the hope of finding it either through Karrde or the Corellian. Have to admit, this doesn't look good.
Mara's got to be ready for the beacon trick, right? On the plus side, she's alive. On the other hand, Thrawn now has the scent of Katana fleet, and he's unlikely to keep his word about cancelling the deathmark anyway. So she has a few days grace and the rest of her life, but if he gets hold of that fleet, nothing very good is going to happen.
And the Emperors ghost actually did drop by to say hello. Nice to see how much he cares for his subordinates even after he's gone.