Warhammer 40K Fluff Discussion XIV: The Emperor Floats Those Who Float Themselves

[bluntpencil]

I've always liked the idea that the C'Tan and the Old Ones are one and the same. They get smashed into shards, there's implications in Eldar fluff that the War in Heaven was a civil war (it changes sometimes - sometimes it's the war against the Necrons, sometimes it's war between the Old Ones - Khaine killing his brothers).

[Cheesegear]

I've always liked the idea that the C'Tan and the Old Ones are one and the same.

They are. It's pretty blatant.

[Drasius]

Well, all of them died, except for Khaine, Cegorach and Isha.
Khaine - like the other C'Tan Old Ones - got smashed into Shards.
Isha got captured by Nurgle himself.

I meant in the context of the Old Ones creating the Tau. Why did they wait ~60 million years to do so? What was the trigger to make them? Which one of the remaining 3 made them and why did they fall under ethereal contorl so easily? Like I said, there's just too many things that don't make sense for the Tau to be an Old One creation if you bother to scratch the surface in the slightest.

[Cheesegear]

I meant in the context of the Old Ones creating the Tau.

Nobody created the Tau. The Tau are a backwards, alien race, same as everyone else. If you want to say that the Tau were created by the Old Ones. Great. So were a lot of xenos. The Eldar and Orks were both created by the Old Ones, and if you count C'Tan (and I do), then Necrons were also created by the Old Ones. That's not a problem.

If that's the case, then the Tau were an abjectly failed race, left behind and forgotten by the Old Ones for millions, if not billions of years.

The question is who created the Ethereals, and then, more specifically, gave Tau their initial starting technology that led to their civilization not being a ****hole, improving by the designs that the Ethereals who came with it, directed them with?

As to why the Ethereals were created; There's only one real reason. The rise of Chaos / The Warp becoming a dominant aspect of the Galaxy.

How were the Ethereals created, and by whom? The big races that have a vested interest in destroying Chaos; are the Necrons and the Eldar. Humanity, for all their talk, doesn't seem too bothered by Chaos/The Warp itself, only that some Humans use it for evil. The Warp is anathema to the Necrons and the Eldar. They need it gone. Humanity, doesn't. Not really.

Necrons and Eldar, are both the poster-children of the Old Ones. So, the Tau is just another project in the works that the Old Ones finally got around to making.

So, two things;
1. Does it matter? All of the (major) xeno Factions in the Milky Way, are thus far, creations of the Old Ones. Tyranids are extra-Galactic, and don't count. So, would Tau being 'just another' Old One creation be more, or less interesting insofar as the plot of the narrative goes?
No. Leave the Old Ones alone. We don't need more Gods in 40K, and we especially don't need more 'bigger is better' models ruining the game. And we especially would like a unique identity separate from Eldar, Necrons and Orks. Was Humanity a product of the Old Ones? Why does Tau have to be? Can't they be their own thing?
Yes. The Old Ones are an interesting bit of Lore that GW hasn't written about it quite some time, and it'd be nice to flesh out the universe some more. The Tau are actually an ancient - but forgotten - race created during the War in Heaven, and Tau are simply a continuation of that War, that never finished - like The Mark of Calth still ticking after ten thousand years. The Old Ones are going to come back and finish what they started - die, Necrons! ...Also Chaos are a problem, we should look into that.

2. ...And this one's for the Tau fanbois; Would you prefer evolution, or a metaphysical divine plan?
Similar to the Nature vs. Nurture debate argument on the Primarchs, there are several instances - which then immediately get dropped 'cause they're bad ideas - that the Primarchs were 'born that way', which meant that they oh so coincidentally were taken to planets where their 'natural inclinations' allowed them to flourish. That's a **** story, because it gives the Primarchs no agency, and only places more divine importance on The Emperor, and makes Chaos look like fools, because if that was their plan, why didn't they say...Put Curze on Macragge, and say, Lorgar on Nostromo where he would've had his head caved in the second he opened his mouth to say something dumb.

It's a better story, if the Primarchs are a product of their environment.

If Tau are designs of the Old Ones, they have less agency, making Tau less interesting, and only furthering interest in the Old Ones, which GW aren't writing about anyway, making a worse story. Tau are being Deus ex Machina'd (long after the Ethereals show up) to progress their race's history, and they have no agency of their own...Yeah, that's cool? Or is it better for Tau to be intelligent on their own (sans Ethereals), where physical, social, and technical evolution of their own, is the driving force behind their culture?

Is 'An Old One did it!' really want you want, for your race's history?

[lord_khaine]

No, the Eldar gods are -not- the same as the Old ones. Cant see how anyone can get to such a theory except by willfully ignoring the lore. And they are certainly not C'tan either.
For a start, the Eldar gods has very clearly been stated to be warp entities. While the Old one and C'tan are inhabitants of the physical realm.

Yes, a single Eldar got became divided into shards upon escaping into the physical realm. Thats about where the simularity ends with the C'tan.
By all acounts the C'tan shards are actively and constantly restrained and monitored, because they would break free given the least chance to do so. They are prisoners of the Necron.
Meanwhile the Avatar of Khaine is not active on its own. To be activated it needs the ritualistic sacrifice of an Aspect warrior (The Young King). Its dependent on a active Eldar population.

[Cheesegear]

No, the Eldar gods are -not- the same as the Old ones.

In Necron Lore, the 'War in Heaven' was what happened when the Necrons and C'Tan fought the Old Ones. With both the C'Tan and Old Ones having a racial arms race for the Galaxy. Races explicitly made during this time, included the Necrons, Orks and Eldar.
In Eldar Lore, the 'War in Heaven' was a dispute between the Eldar Gods where Khaine fought his brothers and sisters.

In the 5th Edition Codex (I don't remember which one, could be Eldar, or it was Dark Eldar).

But, "During the War in Heaven, Khaine fought The Nightbringer". I'm pretty sure that's almost a direct quote. Nightbringer (his name actually being Aza'gorod) was there for the War in Heaven, and he fought Khaine. But, in the War in Heaven, Khaine fought his brothers, right? Why is Khaine fighting Nightbringer?
Khaine fought his fellow Gods.
The C'Tan fought Old Ones.
I'll let you explain that, with what I just wrote, above.

The C'Tan fought 'Old Ones'. But 'Eldar Gods' fought each other.

It's two sides of the same narrative, and both versions are similar, but different. It's good story telling.
Unless it's an accident, GW didn't actually know that they already had a 'War In Heaven' when they wrote the second version, and it's actually bad storytelling.

But, given how the two versions match up so well, I'm more than willing to believe that it's not bad story telling.

Cant see how anyone can get to such a theory except by willfully ignoring the lore. And they are certainly not C'tan either.

In what has been disputed since 5th Ed. - and Ward's NewCrons - it is highly believed that 'C'Tan' was simply the phrase for 'the Old One bad guys'. The Eldar call them Yngir. And there's no way that the words starting with 'Yn' relate to Eldar Gods, right?

For a start, the Eldar gods has very clearly been stated to be warp entities.

Yes. Exactly. Some think that that's what started the whole thing. To Warp or not to Warp.

The Eldar Gods 'good guys' wanted to delve into the Warp, and becoming pretty close to Daemons (and the Avatars of Khaine and Yneead bear striking similarities to Daemons).
Whereas the C'Tan 'bad guys' stayed out of the Warp and wanted nothing to do with it.

[Drasius]

Nobody created the Tau.

No duh, I was responding to this:

I've always been of the mind that that Tau are an Old One creation. Because that's cool, and 40k is about cool stuff.

As for the WiH stuff, while I think that the Old Ones being both the C'Tan and the Eldar Gods is an interesting twist, another theory that fits the narative just as well is that the Eldar gods had their civil war over the response to the C'Tan and it's all lumped together timewise into the WiH since both Eldar Gods fighting each other and Eldar Gods fighting other effectively god-like beings boils down to much the same thing for the chumps on the ground witnessing the apocalypse.

[Wraith]

The question is who created the Ethereals, and then, more specifically, gave Tau their initial starting technology that led to their civilization not being a ****hole, improving by the designs that the Ethereals who came with it, directed them with?.

My own personal theory? The Tau in the Milky Way are the equivalent of pre-Dark Age human colonists.

Somewhere out there in the darkest depths of space, there's another galaxy full of Tau. Hell, maybe they even have their own God-Emperor whose name is Gry'Ta Gh'Ud or something. And at some point, their home galaxy was attacked by some ferocious predatory race that is known for sweeping whole planets void of life; insectile, alien and utterly without remorse or emotion (sound familiar to anyone we know? ) so the Tau galaxy sent out huge fleets of cryosleep ships, "lifeboats" to try and preserve the last of their culture and build footholds from which new empires could eventually grow.

Most were destroyed or lost - deep space is not a friendly place. Some made it to their destinations a million light-years away and are far beyond hope of ever being contacted. One in particular crash-landed on a remote planet on the edge of Ultramar, and the maimed inhabitants were forced to crawl from the wreck and begin with nothing, and due to hardship and degeneration/malfunctions in the cryosleep reawakening process they ended up with little more than stone age technology.
From there they developed quickly - super-high-tech as within their grasp once, rebuilding it without the interference of psykers, Chaos or the other problems that plagued mankind was comparatively easy.

Until one day strange lights appeared in the sky, and strangers - clearly Tau, but different - arrived as if from nowhere. Long lost kin from another star, ones without the loss of their technologies and genuine memories of the great Tau Empire, landed and began reasserting the will of the Tau Emperor on their backwards cousins. The name of the Tau Emperor, Gry'Ta Gh'Ud, would be heard anew in this strange galaxy inhabited by weird pink apes and other, worse beings.

It's almost entirely fiction, of course, but it seems to answer a lot of questions. That's why the original inhabitants of the Milky Way are so similar - humans, Eldar and Orks are physically reminiscent of each other in that they are bipedal, have endoskeletons, they all interact with the warp in the same way, they all have ears and toes and such, because they were all designed to resembled the same source. The Old Ones.
Tau, on the other hand, have hooves instead of feet, 3 fingers on each hand, no interaction with the warp, have weird pheromone-based communication, and appeared as if from nowhere.... They're not "local" like the others.
And it also suggests way as to how the Tyranids got here, specifically; they followed the cryosleep ships and picked up the Astronomicon almost by accident.

The Eldar call them Yngir. And there's no way that the words starting with 'Yn' relate to Eldar Gods, right?

In fairness, there's also the distinct possibility that GW called them that because they just stole the word from Norse mythology and twisted it slightly so make it 'theirs', as they did with so many other things, without properly considering the implications.

The Ymir were the race of giants who were predecessors to the Norse Gods - Draw the obvious parallels to the Old Ones and the Eldar Gods, of course.
They also had the Aesir and the Vanir - the tribe of the Gods of War and the tribe of the Gods of Fertility, respectively. The two tribes weren't siblings, but they shared a common ancestor - the Jötnar, or giants - and so were technically distant cousins. Not at all a million miles away from the Asuryan and the Ymgir; again, if we're taking the words at face value, you're welcome to infer the relationship between the two.

[Cikomyr]

2. ...And this one's for the Tau fanbois; Would you prefer evolution, or a metaphysical divine plan?
Similar to the Nature vs. Nurture debate argument on the Primarchs, there are several instances - which then immediately get dropped 'cause they're bad ideas - that the Primarchs were 'born that way', which meant that they oh so coincidentally were taken to planets where their 'natural inclinations' allowed them to flourish. That's a **** story, because it gives the Primarchs no agency, and only places more divine importance on The Emperor, and makes Chaos look like fools, because if that was their plan, why didn't they say...Put Curze on Macragge, and say, Lorgar on Nostromo where he would've had his head caved in the second he opened his mouth to say something dumb.

It's a better story, if the Primarchs are a product of their environment.

If Tau are designs of the Old Ones, they have less agency, making Tau less interesting, and only furthering interest in the Old Ones, which GW aren't writing about anyway, making a worse story. Tau are being Deus ex Machina'd (long after the Ethereals show up) to progress their race's history, and they have no agency of their own...Yeah, that's cool? Or is it better for Tau to be intelligent on their own (sans Ethereals), where physical, social, and technical evolution of their own, is the driving force behind their culture?

Is 'An Old One did it!' really want you want, for your race's history?

I think I'll be the only one - or one of the few - who wants to answer that call. Not sure if i am a Tau fanboi, but I do like them a lot.

Also, they didnt get a technological leg up. We established that this is rumor/conjecture, not canon yet.

I like the Tau. I like their technological drive and their Manifest Destiny atittude. So whether or not they were created by the Old Ones has almost a null value in term of importance.

That wouldn't decrease what I like about them. It would not cheapen or enhance what i like of them. Whatever their origins may be, i like what they are now; a beautiful reflection of the Eldars, a "younger race", something that rarely if ever comes up in Fantasy or Sci fi; Humans are usually the youngest race there is, the newcomers, the up-and-coming, the fast-teching, Manifest Destiny attitude. And the POV specie.

The Humans are to the Tau what the Eldars are to the Humans, in every single possible way. That's a rare thing to enjoy. The Eldars are where Humanity will end up if it keeps going, Tau are where humanity was early in their Dark Age of Technology.

[Cheesegear]

I like the Tau. I like their technological drive and their Manifest Destiny atittude.

Every Faction in the setting has a technological drive and a Manifest Destiny attitude. Literally everyone is at war with everyone else. And everyone believes that they hold sacred right over whatever they can see.

Whatever their origins may be, i like what they are now

But what they are now, changes, based on their past.
Why do Tau exist in the setting? Is 'another weapon of the Old Ones' a good idea?

The Humans are to the Tau what the Eldars are to the Humans, in every single possible way.

Please, elaborate.

The Eldars are where Humanity will end up if it keeps going

You know the logical end of Humanity, right? ...It's not Eldar.

Tau are where humanity was early in their Dark Age of Technology.

I think they're Age of Strife, heading to a T'au Unification Wars.
...Except what will actually happen is that both Farsight and Shadowsun know that the Ethereals are bad, and neither of them will do anything.

[Cikomyr]

Every Faction in the setting has a technological drive and a Manifest Destiny attitude. Literally everyone is at war with everyone else. And everyone believes that they hold sacred right over whatever they can see.



But what they are now, changes, based on their past.
Why do Tau exist in the setting? Is 'another weapon of the Old Ones' a good idea?



Please, elaborate.



You know the logical end of Humanity, right? ...It's not Eldar.



I think they're Age of Strife, heading to a T'au Unification Wars.
...Except what will actually happen is that both Farsight and Shadowsun know that the Ethereals are bad, and neither of them will do anything.

Sometimes, you arent even worth talking to.

[Brookshw]

Would anyone object at the table if skitarii vanguard used ranger heads?

Not sure I'm digging on these cylon teakettle lovechild things they normally call heads.

[Blackhawk748]

Would anyone object at the table if skitarii vanguard used ranger heads?

Not sure I'm digging on these cylon teakettle lovechild things they normally call heads.

I wouldnt, at they still look different, cuz they have different guns.

[LansXero]

Every Faction in the setting has a technological drive and a Manifest Destiny attitude. Literally everyone is at war with everyone else. And everyone believes that they hold sacred right over whatever they can see.

Not too sure how that fits Orks. Their tech is more instinct than science and they dont seem in any hurry to advance it. Plus fighting is more their nature than any 'manifest destiny' mentality. And then there are the tyranids, of course.

But what they are now, changes, based on their past.
Why do Tau exist in the setting? Is 'another weapon of the Old Ones' a good idea?

Maybe? kind of going the StarCraft way, with the krork being the 'purity of form' and the eldar being the 'purity of essence', and the t'au being the balance?

You know the logical end of Humanity, right? ...It's not Eldar.

According to the Emperor it was; nowadays who knows. The logical end for the galaxy is as Tyranid bio-mass imho, if they ever progress the storyline to where they finish their new Pharos / Astronomican (yes, its never stated what it is, but thats what I think it is ).

I think they're Age of Strife, heading to a T'au Unification Wars.
...Except what will actually happen is that both Farsight and Shadowsun know that the Ethereals are bad, and neither of them will do anything.

Do they have lost things to reclaim or a post-apocalyptic past shackling them? Then its not really a Unification parallel (also, no Tau messiah). Age of Strife is also thinly related, as the only isolated Tau are so voluntarilly, not because of a galaxy wide cataclysm

[Forum Explorer]

In Necron Lore, the 'War in Heaven' was what happened when the Necrons and C'Tan fought the Old Ones. With both the C'Tan and Old Ones having a racial arms race for the Galaxy. Races explicitly made during this time, included the Necrons, Orks and Eldar.
In Eldar Lore, the 'War in Heaven' was a dispute between the Eldar Gods where Khaine fought his brothers and sisters.

In the 5th Edition Codex (I don't remember which one, could be Eldar, or it was Dark Eldar).

But, "During the War in Heaven, Khaine fought The Nightbringer". I'm pretty sure that's almost a direct quote. Nightbringer (his name actually being Aza'gorod) was there for the War in Heaven, and he fought Khaine. But, in the War in Heaven, Khaine fought his brothers, right? Why is Khaine fighting Nightbringer?
Khaine fought his fellow Gods.
The C'Tan fought Old Ones.
I'll let you explain that, with what I just wrote, above.

The C'Tan fought 'Old Ones'. But 'Eldar Gods' fought each other.

It's two sides of the same narrative, and both versions are similar, but different. It's good story telling.
Unless it's an accident, GW didn't actually know that they already had a 'War In Heaven' when they wrote the second version, and it's actually bad storytelling.

But, given how the two versions match up so well, I'm more than willing to believe that it's not bad story telling.



In what has been disputed since 5th Ed. - and Ward's NewCrons - it is highly believed that 'C'Tan' was simply the phrase for 'the Old One bad guys'. The Eldar call them Yngir. And there's no way that the words starting with 'Yn' relate to Eldar Gods, right?



Yes. Exactly. Some think that that's what started the whole thing. To Warp or not to Warp.

The Eldar Gods 'good guys' wanted to delve into the Warp, and becoming pretty close to Daemons (and the Avatars of Khaine and Yneead bear striking similarities to Daemons).
Whereas the C'Tan 'bad guys' stayed out of the Warp and wanted nothing to do with it.

My head canon on the matter is that the Old Ones were physical entities like the C'tan. But they were all killed and fully destroyed in the War of Heaven. But they had set themselves up as Gods to their creations, who were also incredibly potent in the Warp. Their belief in the Old Ones eventually lead to Warp Entities (AKA Demons/Gods) being created, which ended up being the Eldar Pantheon + Gork and Mork.


I also think the Emperor is sorta on the same path. Humans are creating a 'Warp Emperor' who'll become a God in the Warp if the Emperor the man is ever fully killed.


As for Tau, well I like the old fluff that the Ethereals were created by the Eldar to unify the species and get them to advance into the stars. A less xenophobic empire with a weak warp presence seems like something the Eldar would set in motion in order to gain allies in a galaxy that hates them.

[Wraith]

According to the Emperor it was; nowadays who knows. The logical end for the galaxy is as Tyranid bio-mass imho, if they ever progress the storyline to where they finish their new Pharos / Astronomican (yes, its never stated what it is, but thats what I think it is ).

Before the Emperor was incarcerated into the Golden Throne, mankind's ultimate destiny was to be led to become a supremely psychic race, being guided to that position by Him, his knowledge of the warp and His vision for humanity. Now that the Emperor is 'gone', the ultimate fate of humanity is to continue to attempt to become the same psychic race.... most likely destroying itself and be consumed by Chaos en route.

That has remained fairly consistent over several editions now; without the Emperor, humanity is facing the slow crawl to extinction. It's taking a lot longer than it would had Horus been victorious at the Heresy, but it's inevitable.

Do they have lost things to reclaim or a post-apocalyptic past shackling them? Then its not really a Unification parallel (also, no Tau messiah). Age of Strife is also thinly related, as the only isolated Tau are so voluntarily, not because of a galaxy wide cataclysm

Popular theory is that either Aun'Va was going to be the Tau-Messiah, or that Farsight still is. Unfortunately one of the Tau's great hopes for salvation is dead - though the general population is being fed the lie that he is still around and consistently preoccupied with their salvation - and the other is a traitor under the influence of an alien artefact. You may wish to note the similarities between that and the Emperor/Horus, which would make the First Sphere equivalent to the Unification War, the Second Sphere the Great Crusade and the Farsight Expedition to Arthas Moloch being Horus' trip to Davan.

What is happening now is roughly the Tau's version of the Imperium's 32nd Millennium and the Age of Rebirth - the messiah is dead, the Traitors have fled and are in hiding in a far off region of unknown space, and the Tau are now trying to recover from the fallout of that schism..... Albeit all happening in a comparatively polite Tau-esque kind of cold war rather than the carnage that humans are known for.

[Cheesegear]

Sometimes, you arent even worth talking to.

That's an excellent point you make, addressing my questions perfectly.
If you're answer had been "I think it's like that because I like Tau better like in my head, rather than how the fluff actually sort of paints them and I have no sources except for wikis." ...That'd be fine. You'd be up front about what you like and where you got it from. Honest.
But, your actual answer works too.

Age of Strife is also thinly related, as the only isolated Tau are so voluntarilly, not because of a galaxy wide cataclysm

...Something, something, whatever happened to Rome's 9th Legion The Fourth Sphere Expedition?
Also, what's happening now is a galaxy-wide cataclysm.

[Brookshw]

Does the webway extend beyond this galaxy? Follow up, does the warp extend or exist in other galaxies?

[Cheesegear]

Does the webway extend beyond this galaxy?

The Webway would theoretically only exist wherever the Eldar did/do.

Follow up, does the warp extend or exist in other galaxies?

It must do, as Tyranids were able to see the Pharos Device explode, as well as making a beeline for the Astronomicon once they were on their way.
What's unclear is whether or not the Chaos Gods have influence in other galaxies.

[Brookshw]

It must do, as Tyranids were able to see the Pharos Device explode, as well as making a beeline for the Astronomicon once they were on their way.
What's unclear is whether or not the Chaos Gods have influence in other galaxies.

Sensible. I was actually wondering if the Old One's may have spread to a different galaxy.

[Voidhawk]

The Webway would theoretically only exist wherever the Eldar did/do.

The Eldar didn't build the webway, they just inherited it from the Old Ones. And then did an ok-I-guess job at growing/maintaining it, if you don't count the time they accidentally an entire god and blew up half of the thing.

Does the webway extend beyond this galaxy? Follow up, does the warp extend or exist in other galaxies?

The Warp definitely exists outside the galaxy, since Tyranids have the Shadow in the Warp and pyschic powers. The pyschic evolution in other galaxies likely followed a completely different path from ours: the Chaos Gods are one possible result and the Tyranids gestalt Hive Mind is another.

What doesn't exist are any warp tides or currents, so it quickly becomes basically impossible to use it as a method of travel with normal warp drives. Hence why the 'Nids use gravity drives, despite understanding warp-tech and being pyschic. Trying to move in the warp under the influence of only your own soul is like trying to propel a sailing boat by blowing at the sails.

[lord_khaine]

Unless it's an accident, GW didn't actually know that they already had a 'War In Heaven' when they wrote the second version, and it's actually bad storytelling.

But, given how the two versions match up so well, I'm more than willing to believe that it's not bad story telling.

Hmm.. now i at least understand where you got what to be sounded like a crack-pot theory.

I do think its much more likely though, is that when GW wanted to insert a new faction that was somehow older than all the others, then they kinda needed to shoehorn it into the existing fluff and background.
Gw being GW, this was done with the finesse of a rhino surgeon.

In world explanation. This is so long ago than even the Eldars have muddled records of what took place.

In what has been disputed since 5th Ed. - and Ward's NewCrons - it is highly believed that 'C'Tan' was simply the phrase for 'the Old One bad guys'. The Eldar call them Yngir. And there's no way that the words starting with 'Yn' relate to Eldar Gods, right?

Right. Just because the Eldars name something does not mean its related to them. Case in point. Mon-keigh.
Also, its hardly surprising that two different god-powerful things named by the Eldar sounds related.

Yes. Exactly. Some think that that's what started the whole thing. To Warp or not to Warp.

The Eldar Gods 'good guys' wanted to delve into the Warp, and becoming pretty close to Daemons (and the Avatars of Khaine and Yneead bear striking similarities to Daemons).
Whereas the C'Tan 'bad guys' stayed out of the Warp and wanted nothing to do with it.

Alright thats far enough out of the regular lore that its entering fan theory. I wont comment much on that even though it is an interesting theory that the gods started out mortal.
(though i wont call the resemblece striking. Yes. They have 2 arms and 2 legs like the majority of demons.)

[Wraith]

Sensible. I was actually wondering if the Old One's may have spread to a different galaxy.

It is entirely possible - the nature and mystery of the Webway makes it entirely plausible that it could in theory go just about anywhere, including different galaxies or even different dimensions.

It's actually one of the sort-of-plausible ways that GW could bring a Primarch-equivalent character into the lore as a part of the Aeldari faction without having to completely pull it out of their butt - someone finds a very obscure Webway Portal that opens and allows an incredibly powerful being to re-enter the galaxy, if not an Old One or one of the missing Asuryani directly then maybe one of their agents.

After all, all of the Eldar Gods are dead.... except for all the ones which aren't. Just like the secrets of geneseed were lost, only to be perfectly intact in the possession of Cawl who had hidden himself 'off the grid' on Mars for 10,000 years, any number of Asuryani could be hidden and intentionally lost from record until they choose not to be. That they were ALL defeated and killed by Slannesh is exactly the sort of propoganda that the Prince would want you to believe, true or otherwise.

What doesn't exist are any warp tides or currents, so it quickly becomes basically impossible to use it as a method of travel with normal warp drives. Hence why the 'Nids use gravity drives, despite understanding warp-tech and being pyschic. Trying to move in the warp under the influence of only your own soul is like trying to propel a sailing boat by blowing at the sails.

Unless you're an Alpha-level-or-better Psyker, like Magnus or the Communion, or a ridiculously powerful Sorcerer like Lorgar, but then the very definition of either of those things is "doesn't obey the laws of physics or metaphysics if it doesn't want to".

I do think its much more likely though, is that when GW wanted to insert a new faction that was somehow older than all the others, then they kinda needed to shoehorn it into the existing fluff and background.
Gw being GW, this was done with the finesse of a rhino surgeon.

Given GW's track record, this is entirely likely. Still, I think it's a GOOD theory that they should adopt if they had any sense - as I said above, it gives them a great way to bring in new characters, units and antagonists without just going "yeah, they've been here for 10,000 years but no one bothered to mention it, lol".

Alright thats far enough out of the regular lore that its entering fan theory. I wont comment much on that even though it is an interesting theory that the gods started out mortal.

I don't think it's that far out - there's dozens of examples in the 40k lore of characters who started mortal and then consorted with daemons in order to achieve apotheosis. Start with the Traitor Primarchs and include a solid attempt by the Emperor, if you're a follower of the theory that the Crusades were for his sole benefit rather than that of humanity in general.

Now go back 65million+ years before the four Chaos Gods were a thing, and we can imagine what the mortal races of the time could achieve with unbridled access to that same source of power..... Absolutely the details are something that we've made up, but the principle is entirely canon.

[Brookshw]

The Warp definitely exists outside the galaxy, since Tyranids have the Shadow in the Warp and pyschic powers. The pyschic evolution in other galaxies likely followed a completely different path from ours: the Chaos Gods are one possible result and the Tyranids gestalt Hive Mind is another.

Thought about it and this doesn't necessarily follow as we don't know if Nids had these same psychic powers in the other galaxy. They definitely could have but it's not guaranteed. Same deal as Superman, come here, our sun triggers the powers perhaps. That the Pharos/Astranomicon drew them here seems like a good evidence for it but at that point they're somewhere in between galaxies so it's not proof positive.

[lord_khaine]

It's actually one of the sort-of-plausible ways that GW could bring a Primarch-equivalent character into the lore as a part of the Aeldari faction without having to completely pull it out of their butt - someone finds a very obscure Webway Portal that opens and allows an incredibly powerful being to re-enter the galaxy, if not an Old One or one of the missing Asuryani directly then maybe one of their agents.

They really should not need to pull anything out of there, no matter how popular a location it is. I honestly find it more believeable had the Yncarne been more powerful than a primarch, not less.

And there are already fluffwise a ritual that empowers the Avatar of Khaine. Put that back in and we have another primarch-equivalent for the Eldar faction.

Given GW's track record, this is entirely likely. Still, I think it's a GOOD theory that they should adopt if they had any sense - as I said above, it gives them a great way to bring in new characters, units and antagonists without just going "yeah, they've been here for 10,000 years but no one bothered to mention it, lol".

Well alternatively those new characters could actually be new things, like again the Yncarne or the Primaris Marines.
Because i dont think its that good of a theory. Everything does in fact not need to be connected.

[9mm]

Re: Tau Origins

When the Tau were first released, and the C'tan weren't pokemon; it was implied that the Tau and by proxie the Eatherials were a C'tan project.

How much of that still holds up after the retcons I have no idea.

[JNAProductions]

So, we probably all know about this.

I plan on writing a story involving an idyllic, backwater planet that has been, for the past few centuries, untouched by galactic politics. Just some tithes to the Imperium and tributes in the form of healthy, strapping young men. It will also involve a Battle Sister of the Adeptus Sororitas.

As such, I'd appreciate a crash-course in the Sisters of Battle fluff.

[Cheesegear]

I plan on writing a story involving an idyllic, backwater planet that has been, for the past few centuries, untouched by galactic politics. Just some tithes to the Imperium and tributes in the form of healthy, strapping young men. It will also involve a Battle Sister of the Adeptus Sororitas.

What's the Theme? There's only six to choose from.

Kind of disappointed that there's no James Cameron category, where inserting a love story (Kor'sarro/Shrike, Tor Garadon/Sven Bloodhowl) into any narrative automatically makes it better. Because Humanity.

[JNAProductions]

Adventure. The general synopsis of my idea is that a Word Bearer Chaos Marine has made planetfall sometime recently, and is planning... Something. Something Chaosy. The Imperium isn't really sure what.

So, a group of Battle Sisters (and possibly others-Ordo Hereticus, maybe?) were sent to handle it, but due to a freak accident (or "freak accident") their ship crashed, leaving only one survivor, and a heavily wounded survivor at that. So she has to rely on the help of some locals to achieve her mission.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm not going to bother this time around; my limited free writing time goes towards stuff I know I can get paid for now, instead of spec work for a magazine that lays out perpetual ownership of any story concept you submit to them, even if it's not accepted.