Letting your party enjoy their wealth & buying magic items

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

I generally don't. When I do, it's because the campaign is ending reasonably soon and those characters won't be present in the next game. I prefer to have mundane money sinks in the style of NWN2's Crossroad Keep.

[the secret fire]

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

Removing ye olde magic mart from the game was arguably 5e's best design decision. But then again, everything has its price. It doesn't make sense that magic items would be literally impossible to buy. I just like to make settings where they are so rare and powerful that buying one is beyond the means of the party before tier III.

I should add that I encourage the use of consumables, though, to include potions, scrolls, poison, alchemists fire, and even stuff like dust of disappearing/dryness and sovereign glue.

[Mikal]

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

I allow it, though it depends on the location in the game world, their contacts, and their reputation.
Since these are big ticket items, with price tags most people won't ever be able to afford, special brokers are usually needed to help facilitate the transactions, some easy to find, some harder (with rarer equipment potentially) to find.

Also, one can always try and commission a custom item, with the same restrictions above. Generally speaking though, any town with access to any sort of hedge wizard or spell casting clergy/druid will usually have some minor items available for purchase, and maybe a choice item (for them, so probably nothing more than uncommon) for trade or service.

Still, with all of the above being said, players know the key phrase on any transactions is caveat emptor.

I've found that when properly done, purchasing or building a magic weapon can be even more rewarding from a roleplay standpoint then going into "Procedural Dungeon #45 to go slay #Random Encounter 555" to find. But then, I also let most of my encounter areas only have weapons or items based on the Random Item tables, and very rarely seed those locations with party specific items (only if the world would logically have them there, such as say, the home of a Dark Knight wielding the famed and feared Blackrazor...).

[dickerson76]

Removing ye olde magic mart from the game was arguably 5e's best design decision. But then again, everything has its price. It doesn't make sense that magic items would be literally impossible to buy. I just like to make settings where they are so rare and powerful that buying one is beyond the means of the party before tier III.

I should add that I encourage the use of consumables, though, to include potions, scrolls, poison, alchemists fire, and even stuff like dust of disappearing/dryness and sovereign glue.

I've been toying with the idea of consumable magic weapons. Something like "holy oil" or "diamond dust oil" to coat weapons/armor with. It would grant a +1 on to-hit/dmg until either a natural 20 or a natural 1. Or maybe a 1minute duration (bonus action to apply). Haven't figured out a price point yet, or how readily available it should be, though. I'm thinking maybe 2-5 applications available for purchase when going through a town (assuming they've gone through their supply). I don't want it to get to where everyone has it available for every fight. Would also need something similar for non-weapon users.

[the secret fire]

I've been toying with the idea of consumable magic weapons. Something like "holy oil" or "diamond dust oil" to coat weapons/armor with. It would grant a +1 on to-hit/dmg until either a natural 20 or a natural 1. Or maybe a 1minute duration (bonus action to apply). Haven't figured out a price point yet, or how readily available it should be, though. I'm thinking maybe 2-5 applications available for purchase when going through a town (assuming they've gone through their supply). I don't want it to get to where everyone has it available for every fight. Would also need something similar for non-weapon users.

There is already oil of sharpness, so you could just make weaker versions of that item. Making poison more available (through purchase, crafting, harvesting from monsters, or whatever) is also a great way to add some temporary effects to martial combat. Poison can add a lot of variety and tactical depth (bad guys can use it, too), and the only thing the DM really needs to adjust is the price.

[Ryunosuke]

I enjoy the Forgotten Realms world a lot and factions exist as part of players backgrounds than have existing rules for letting them purchase a few magic items based on their ‘renown’ and rank within said groups.

There is also a vague pricing guage that exists for magic items by rarity and I would logically argue that almost any non-unique uncommon magic item/consumable can be found at any average sized town or market with rare being larger places like port nyanzaru in chult (ToA) but anything last only rare would be significantly harder to find than simply going to town for sure.

But buying out +1 weapons and armor and such or even mithril or adamantine gear at bigger cities, especially ones with high adventurer traffic just makes sense.

[Willie the Duck]

Letting your party enjoy their wealth & buying magic items

With a reasoned, unbiased start like that, I thoroughly expect a acrimony and drama-free thread.

Not saying I wouldn't set them on a week long quest to go to the big city where they end up battling a thieves guild but I think letting the party buy +1 swords or bags of devouring for a couple thousand gold pieces each really isn't that game breaking and keeps them motivated by quests with GP rewards.

Do you all make magic items attainable for your parties this way?

Once you include the quest and a reasonable level of DM-controlled gatekeeping (so no monofocus building a halberd fighter because the player assumes +X halberds will be purchasable when they get to level Y), you are already working to eliminate significant parts of the Magic Mart issue that inspired the creation of this change (-back) in the game.

The goal was not that magic items could never be obtained through use of money, it was that it not be an assumed that treasure would just be another codified metric of character stat&build advancement.

[Jama7301]

I like the idea of meaningful items that level with my players, so I'm working on a system where people can feed gold to their items to select new keywords to add to their item. This way, I can give them an 'iconic' item that they can customize with powers they want. Still in the early planning phase, but I'm thinking I also want to have an option to have the weapon change forms, if they decide that "hey, this magic pennant isn't as cool as a custom wand would be".

Still early in planning, but it's an idea I like a lot.

[krazedkoi]

It depends on the game, but in 5e I've definately placed less of an emphasis on purchasable magic items and more of an emphasis on consumables and minor/flavoured magic items.
Cantriped ammunition is a favourite of my group and x/day low-level spells on objects (a bullseye lantern that can cast Burning Hands 1/day called Hellmouth, a pair of boots that cast Longstrider 1/day named Quickstepper Boots). Once they've hit higher levels I introduced more of the standard fair, but even then nothing like what you'd see in 3e where everyone was geared to the nines.
Having had a few conversations with them, they don't feel like I'm restricting them or limiting their characters because of the lack of magical items. They also enjoy finding creative or thematic uses for the items they do get, often using them for the sake of RP rather than just mechanical efficiency, which makes me a super happy DM :)

[DMThac0]

With a reasoned, unbiased start like that, I thoroughly expect a acrimony and drama-free thread.

I can't believe the OP even thinks the players can be allowed to use their money for anything, I mean it's literally just a token to show that they're progressing...It's like a physical representation of XP....bah, buying magic items with money...that's ludicrous...


So, in all seriousness, I think the availability of magic items is purely setting dependent. In my current campaign world; magic is still young, the creation of magical items is still a risky business. The artifacts from the gods and titans in the world are legendary and almost impossible to find. So the players have reached level 5 and they have acquired a grand total of 12 healing potions and 3 spell scrolls. They will be acquiring their first magically endowed weapons and armor at level 6 and there will only be 3 objects. The group has 6 people. I'm trying to maintain the idea of the newly acquired skill to endowing things with magical properties.

In a previous adventure, the players started with a magical token, weapon, or armor that grew with them. As they leveled so did it, and they gained new powers as it evolved. They were also very well stocked with potions and scrolls, and by the time they hit lvl 5 each person had at least 1 other magical item beyond their heirloom.

The only thoughts I have is that magic items, and shops, should fit the setting, and the difficulty of the game should reflect the ease of access to said magical equipment.

[Specter]

Hint: if you do that, make sure it's between sessions. My player used one and a half hour browsing through the book and the list I gave them for that.

[Vogie]

You could also give each of the players a "ritual crafting" skill, then allow them to slowly craft these weapons or items over time during their long rests. Depending on what they're wanting to do, it could take days or weeks. A +1 sword may take a purchased sword, X amount of gold over 2 days... while a bag of devouring would take a bag, 5x the gold over 2 weeks.

If they want things that aren't available for purchase, but could exist in your world, maybe you have them find plans for such items. Not unlike leaving around scrolls for wizards and ritual casters in the core game.

[Tanarii]

Use the xanathar's downtime rules. They work okay. Especially if you add a five day (workweek) each traveling each way the nearest decent city and the local adventuring area for buying & selling magic items.

They're especially nice if you've got multiple players and PCs per player, but give out decent downtime between sessions, 10 days (or two workweeks) or so. That way they can use a different character for a session or two, and their other character can spend 20-30 days of downtime traveling to the city and spending 2-4 workweeks looking for a magic item they want.

[Hastati]

I normally don't allow magic items to be bought, other than healing potions. I like the idea that magic items are somewhat rare and difficult to come by so I'm a bit parsimonious with them. However, you should run the game the way you like. If you want your players to be able to buy magic items, go for it. It's not going to break the game unless you let it.

[CTurbo]

I do allow players to purchase magic items but it's never exactly what they want. This how the party ends up with a Pike, Flail, Trident, Sickle, and Whip lol

[StoicLeaf]

I allow players to purchase the level low level stuff in larger towns (so +1 items, some potions, scrolls up to 3rd level, etc.) without any hassle.

Anything beyond that is either an item they find, or, if they really want to shop for it, rare and expensive.
Particularly items that give players abilities (flight, for example) aren't readily available simply due to the overhead it creates for me as the DM and the inevitable boredom for the player.

[JellyPooga]

I find the entite notion of "Ye Olde Magic Mart" to be incredibly jarring, myself. Name a fantasy film that has a shop for adventurers to go buy some magic armour along with some healing potions on special offer. Name a (non-d&d setting) fantasy book where the protagonist gets his magic sword over a counter. The entire notion of buying magic items just...devalues the entire concept, at least for me. Ok, sure, maybe you might get lucky and happen across a powerful magic item while browsing a junk shop or a dodgy geezer might be able to find just what you want on the black market, maybe, but that should be the exception, not the norm and it's hardly the stuff of legend;

"Hey bro, look; there goes Grondar the Mighty. It's said he's slain dragons by the dozen and saved the city from an Undead invasion single handed"
"Cool! Check out his sword; where'd he get that? It looks awesome sharp!"
"Err...I think he got it from Joe Smith round the corner"
"What? The blacksmiths where we take Nells to get her shoes done?"
"Yeah, that's the one"
"Oh...he didn't find it some ancient tomb, or wrest it from the hands of a powerful warlord, or was gifted it by a divine patron...he just...bought it from Joe?"
"Yup"
"Oh"
"..."
"...did Grondar go on a mighty quest to find the pommel jewel and star-metal to make it? Travel across seas to consult a mage about how to make a magic blade and impart the secrets to Joe? Was Joe divinely inspired to make this unique sword?"
"Nope. Joe has a bunch of 'em. I think he has a special on daggers right now; buy one, get a Bag of Holding half price."
"Oh...what's a Bag of Holding?"
"It's a bag that holds stuff, I guess"
"So...it's a regular bag then"
"Nah, it's a magical bag to go with your magic dagger"
"How much does this stuff cost?"
"It ain't for you and me; thousands of gold crowns."
"What!?! You could buy an estate for that money."
"I know, right. It's amazing Joe still does horseshoes really."

[Spacehamster]

Only thing I don’t like about 5e is that they did away with magic mart, we always play high magic and it’s annoying not to have proper pricing.

[Pelle]

To me, it wasn't as much an issue that Magic Items could be buyed for gold and had a listed price, but rather the common assumption that every item published would be available and for sale everywhere.

[Willie the Duck]

To me, it wasn't as much an issue that Magic Items could be buyed for gold and had a listed price, but rather the common assumption that every item published would be available and for sale everywhere.

For me, it was the sense that you couldn't spend your gold pieces on: merchant ships, retainers, fancy clothes, castles, bribing people, hiring people, armies, boozin' & wimminizin', etc. etc. etc. unless everyone else bought into that idea (including the DM and the CR system) because then you were mechanically behind anyone else who toed the party line of gold=resource gained from defeating enemies, used to improve your characters stats and abilities. We already have a resource like that, it's called xp (used to come along with the gold at a near 1:1 ratio. If gold becomes that, then you can't unabashedly use it for, y'know, gold things.

[EvilAnagram]

To me, it wasn't as much an issue that Magic Items could be buyed for gold and had a listed price, but rather the common assumption that every item published would be available and for sale everywhere.

For me, it was the sense that you couldn't spend your gold pieces on: merchant ships, retainers, fancy clothes, castles, bribing people, hiring people, armies, boozin' & wimminizin', etc. etc. etc. unless everyone else bought into that idea (including the DM and the CR system) because then you were mechanically behind anyone else who toed the party line of gold=resource gained from defeating enemies, used to improve your characters stats and abilities. We already have a resource like that, it's called xp (used to come along with the gold at a near 1:1 ratio. If gold becomes that, then you can't unabashedly use it for, y'know, gold things.

These posts describe the problem I have with everything being available. If everything is buyable, gold become a means of advancing mechanically rather than a means of advancing socially. I think it's worthwhile to balance them out, having potions for sale and putting a few rare and uncommon items in the various shops of a major city, but otherwise making magic items something you find in the adventure. Mostly, what they find are raw materials that they need to commission a skilled craftsman to make into a magic item.

[Pelle]

For me, it was the sense that you couldn't spend your gold pieces on: merchant ships, retainers, fancy clothes, castles, bribing people, hiring people, armies, boozin' & wimminizin', etc. etc. etc. unless everyone else bought into that idea (including the DM and the CR system) because then you were mechanically behind anyone else who toed the party line of gold=resource gained from defeating enemies, used to improve your characters stats and abilities. We already have a resource like that, it's called xp (used to come along with the gold at a near 1:1 ratio. If gold becomes that, then you can't unabashedly use it for, y'know, gold things.

Agreed, but if you come across an npc with a magic spoon, it only makes sense that you should be able to buy it if the price is right. If making magic items rarer, overall less useful, and pricier, you may still prefer to spend your gold on fun stuff.

[Willie the Duck]

Agreed, but if you come across an npc with a magic spoon, it only makes sense that you should be able to buy it if the price is right. If making magic items rarer, overall less useful, and pricier, you may still prefer to spend your gold on fun stuff.

Which is an in-game event/encounter/adventure. To my mind, it is no different than discovering said magic spoon in a dungeon in the hands of a lich (or orc with pie) and defeating them with combat/deception/negotiation. I have no problem with gold being used in-adventure to solve problems (just like using it to bribe a guard would be), it is the effective conversion of gp into a duplicate xp analogue, thereby disallowing the individual to spend it otherwise (baring universal buy-in).

[Pelle]

Which is an in-game event/encounter/adventure. To my mind, it is no different than discovering said magic spoon in a dungeon in the hands of a lich (or orc with pie) and defeating them with combat/deception/negotiation. I have no problem with gold being used in-adventure to solve problems (just like using it to bribe a guard would be), it is the effective conversion of gp into a duplicate xp analogue, thereby disallowing the individual to spend it otherwise (baring universal buy-in).

Agreed, although as long as magical items exist, it's impossible to exclude them from the economy (unless you introduce some weird metaphysics to justify it).

Even if you make magical items non-guaranteed, really rare, and therefore crazy expensive, you may still have the single player who saves every penny for the rare off-chance of randomly meeting and bribing someone who has a magic spoon that is perfect for his build.

You just have to make the opportunity cost high enough (can't be guaranteed to find specific item or items at particular times or places, can't buy other useful stuff) so that most people will start spending money on other stuff.

[Unoriginal]

In Tomb off Annihilation, the mage Wakanga O'tamu has one shop where he sells scrolls up to second levels and some potions, and he also knows the magic item formulas for +1 blades and +1 shields, for which he's commissioned.

He's one of the Merchant Princes of the ploutocratic Port Nyanzaru, he's richer than the temple of the goddess of money, and he has a monopoly on the magic item trade in the area. Him and his colleague Merchant Princes are rich enough to keep a Sorcerer with 7th or 8th level spells on their payroll.

In Forge of Furry, a smith is utterly legendary for the weapons they produced in the eponymous forge before they were killed, and one of the quest givers is willing to spend thousands on even one of said weapons, yet none of them has powers stronger than a +2 bonus.

Yes, buying magic item is possible, but anyone capable of selling them regularly is rolling in dough one step removed from the adult dragon hoard, if not above.

Though of course it depends of a lot of factors. A Cape of Billowing is awesome, but it's Common, it won't fetch for a ridiculous price unless there is some story or the like making it more important, like a famous crafter or previous owner. But more than anything you have to be careful to make sure you're not buying something stolen from someone who has the means to get it back, and that the item isn't cursed. I tjink the rules in the Xanathar's work for that.

[the secret fire]

Agreed, although as long as magical items exist, it's impossible to exclude them from the economy (unless you introduce some weird metaphysics to justify it).

Even if you make magical items non-guaranteed, really rare, and therefore crazy expensive, you may still have the single player who saves every penny for the rare off-chance of randomly meeting and bribing someone who has a magic spoon that is perfect for his build.

You just have to make the opportunity cost high enough (can't be guaranteed to find specific item or items at particular times or places, can't buy other useful stuff) so that most people will start spending money on other stuff.

My solution to this problem, going back to 3rd edition, has been to have "expendable" magic items (including low-level wands and magical ammunition), masterwork weapons/armor (non-magical +1) and items made out of unusual but mundane materials (adamantium, mithril, etc.) be a regular part of the economy, but...permanent magic items are all imbued with consciousness. Every. Single. One. In my games, you create a permanent magic item by killing someone (or some thing, or many people/things) and putting their life force into a specially prepared object. So a Ring of Spell Storing might have been created when a wicked old wizard murdered his three apprentices in order to increase his own power, or some such. They're not all sentient, but they all have a backstory, and they exert a hold on their owners, be it through dreams, strange urges, or just outright dialogue (the most powerful ones having sentience). Every one is precious, and it takes an act of will to give one up. To use D&D parlance, they are all, to some extent or another, cursed. An archmage might be able to resist the pull and sell something he has acquired, but this would be an exceptionally rare event.

I suppose it is a "weird" metaphysics to set things up in this way, but it makes permanent magic items fantastic, terrifying and mysterious things. It also creates a clear reason why they don't just change hands in the market, while still giving the PCs access to "magical stuff" within an economy that basically makes sense.

[Pex]

Maybe a compromise the game provides for.

Instead of buying magic items players find as part of treasure the formula to make a magic item they'd like. Some materials needed are acquired through adventuring, others can be through purchase - gem dust, rare ink, rare incense. Ignore the official rules and allow for a more reasonable downtime crafting time to move on with the game.

[Tanarii]

I find the entite notion of "Ye Olde Magic Mart" to be incredibly jarring, myself. Name a fantasy film that has a shop for adventurers to go buy some magic armour along with some healing potions on special offer. Name a (non-d&d setting) fantasy book where the protagonist gets his magic sword over a counter. The entire notion of buying magic items just...devalues the entire concept, at least for me. Ok, sure, maybe you might get lucky and happen across a powerful magic item while browsing a junk shop or a dodgy geezer might be able to find just what you want on the black market, maybe, but that should be the exception, not the norm and it's hardly the stuff of legend;

Given the amount of money involved, which could be tens of lbs of gold or more, you'd expect to have to find a wealthy individual / private collector, or extremely high end specialty merchant trader/price. Which is why I like the xanathar's rules (effectively) representing the time to search them out. And also assume it requires at least a small city, if not a major one.

Of course, such an individual might be more interested in a trade than a sale. Allowing you to kill two birds with one stone, 'selling' a magic item at the same time.

Otoh keep in mind the lowest rarity of magic items are worth 100 go or less, and the next rarity 500 go or less. That's around a breastplate for the second rarity, and less than half plate and a lot less than plate. How hard is it for players to buy better armor in your campaigns?

[GlenSmash!]

I prefer a setting where magic items are rare and feel unique. I also don't like +1 magic items. I would rather trade that +1 for an interesting minor property even if it is less useful.

Although even in such a setting, anything is available for the right price. In fact, I can imagine a kind of thief specially dedicated to obtaining such items for the fabulously wealthy and powerful.

Players may want to keep a close watch on such items.

Consumables I'm much more free with.