Warhammer 40K Tabletop Thread XXXVIII: toy soldiers r srs bsns

[bluntpencil]

Incursor Squad: Infiltrators, but for Melee. There's a very good chance that you can go all-in and take as many as you can, like, at least 30. As with most <Phobos> units, they come with Concealed Positions, which allows them to set up during deployment 9" from your opponent's DZ, move 6" in your Turn 1, and then if your opponent is pushing their DZ, you get to attempt a 3" Charge...Albeit with S4, AP- attacks. Because S4, AP- is nothing, spamming Incursors is can be problematic. Because like a stupid idiot that's stupid, a Phobos Lieutenant does not have Concealed Positions and can't start the game hugging your Incursors because GW forgot how to write good rules. That said, you can run a Phobos Captain, and turn those 1s into 6s and score extra hits. So, yeah. This is an all-in strategy. Which means that if you don't go first, you need a ****-ton of models on the board or your gimmick falls into the drain. That being said...

Gene-Wrought Might; When you roll a 6 to hit in Melee, you also wound for free - just like Infiltrators' Carbines.



...This means that when Incursors roll a 6 to hit, with Gene-Wrought Might on them, one 6 to hit, causes two automatic wounds. Making that Turn 1 Charge is really, really good. Hell, Infiltrators even have Defenders of Humanity to steal your opponent's Objectives, and the only way your opponent can stop you is, well, by going first. Which they will do about half the time. But as long as one unit of 10 survives, Gene-Wrought Might can do the thing.

To go properly all in, take Whirlwind of Rage as a Tactic and a Phobos Captain as a Chapter Master.

Charge one of your surviving 10 man Incursor squads, and try to get the CM nearby.

You charged, so it's 3 attacks per mini, 4 for the Sarge. 31 for the squad. Activate Gene Wrought Might.

Each six is now 4 automatic wounds. Reroll everything that's not a six. On average, with a CM, an average of 37.888 automatic wounds. From 31 attacks. AP is zero, but hey, it's a lot of wounds.

[Cheesegear]

Look me in the eye and ask me again, "Are Space Wolves a joke?" - I double-dare ya.

The correct answer is...

Its Space Wolves, of course its a joke.

please GW, just tell me when my book comes out so that I can give money to you? That's all I need; if it could come out sooner than "TBA" that would be a nice bonus, y'know?

It really, really, really bothers me that most companies can tell you their release schedule months in advance. Hell, movies can even declare their release date a year before it even comes out.
GW? ...Can't even tell me definitively what's coming out in three weeks. Everything is coated in a thin layer of Soon^TM.

When should I spend my money, and how much of it do I have to spend before the next release I actually give a **** about, comes out? Some of the new Space Marine stuff I actually care about. But GW can't tell me when Infiltrators/Incursors are actually coming. How much money should I spend building up my Guard army to tournament standard, without knowing when the units I really want, come out? I can't plan my budget if I don't know how what releases are coming, when.
I had assumed that Infiltrators would be coming with Raven Guard...Because obviously? Turns out that's wrong, somehow.

It's not that I don't want to give GW money. I do. But only for the products I want. But if I want more than one product, then it becomes zero sum. Any product I buy, means I didn't buy, another product.

GW seems to think that the correct answer to that problem is "Spend all your money, every single week, and then you don't have to worry about the release schedule because you buy everything, you dumb idiot."

[Squark]

How many? 5 Lightning Claws = 6 Power Axes.
Second, what model are you running them on? A Captain or Lieutenant does just fine with an Axe. A Tactical Sergeant, gets more use out of a Lightning Claw. However, remembering that a Scout Sergeant is a Troops unit, and thus gets more benefit out of being cheap. Especially across three Battalions.
Third, do you have a Lieutenant? They're a force multiplier. Why not? If so, Lightning Claws are less useful.

But, your complicated way is...Bad.

T3 = The Lightning Claw is basically +1 better.
T4 = The Lightning Claw is better, but not as much as a +1.
T5 = Difference is irrelavent.
T6-7 = Lightning Claw is +1 better.
T8 = Difference is irrelevant.

The Lightning Claw is better. The Power Axe is cheaper, so in cases where 'difference is irrelavent', the Power Axe is better.

That is a much better way of explaining it than just "power axes... ... are better against higher Toughness models." Would something closer to, "Lightning Claws perform better against things with less than 8 toughness, but not enough to really be worth it," be more explanatory?

[Drasius]

FW has been accepted for general use for many years now. I think I have a single marine army list that doesn't have some sort of FW and every single other army has something here and there, even if its just a character. Not using FW is an oddity these days, especially since GW does the points for FW now while FW just makes cool looking models.

FW isn't (or, at least, wasn't) well accepted in Aus outside of HH (which had a surprisingly large following in certain states), and was effectively banned in our store for as long as I can recall (models were fine for rule of cool conversions or substitution, but no FW rules allowed outside Apoc) and I'm disappointed that this no longer seems to be the case.

It does expose the power gamers a bit more, but then, we all already knew who was a douchebag without that indicator anyway, so really, it's just a net loss for the casual side of things.

[Corsair14]

Aside from the one guy running multiple Leviathans or Dorrito Dreads(it isn't his normal list either), FW doesn't have that douchebag connotation. We have Elysian and Death Korps armies in my meta, Necron armies that don't just use 3 of each of the two main units you see in every list but instead use sentinels, stalkers and arks. I think I have the only punisher vulture, but I also use vendetta and a non-gatling vulture too in my own Elysian army. Our Custodes players use the FW vehicles and dreads which they use more to flesh out their armies instead of simply bringing lots and lots of bikes(although they still have too many IMO :P) There is a small home based HH group in the area but I don't like going back and forth between 7th and 8th so I just lurk on their pages to look at pretty models.

[Drasius]

Aside from the one guy running multiple Leviathans or Dorrito Dreads(it isn't his normal list either), FW doesn't have that douchebag connotation. We have Elysian and Death Korps armies in my meta, Necron armies that don't just use 3 of each of the two main units you see in every list but instead use sentinels, stalkers and arks. I think I have the only punisher vulture, but I also use vendetta and a non-gatling vulture too in my own Elysian army. Our Custodes players use the FW vehicles and dreads which they use more to flesh out their armies instead of simply bringing lots and lots of bikes(although they still have too many IMO :P) There is a small home based HH group in the area but I don't like going back and forth between 7th and 8th so I just lurk on their pages to look at pretty models.

See, triple Levi, triple whatever the latest and greatest Sicaran variant is, Triple Calladius (even post nerf), double Ares are the only things that were being dicussed for the Imperial soup side and there was more than a few mentions of the Scorpion for Eldar, at which point I stopped listening to their heresy.

[Wraith]

GW seems to think that the correct answer to that problem is "Spend all your money, every single week, and then you don't have to worry about the release schedule because you buy everything, you dumb idiot."

This is it, really. GW don't want you to have time to consider what's coming, to think about it, to decide how it is or isn't going to fit into your army, and to ultimately have time to talk yourself our of a purchase. They want you to have a tournament at the end of the month, then for them to throw something new at you so that your only response is a knee-jerk reaction. "Do I need this? I might! I don't know! Better buy it and make sure QUICK in case it turns out to be what wins me the tournament!"

Or... they're just really bad at business? They really do just make minis as they see fit and then throw together whatever rules they can think up afterwards, so nothing can be planned and the reason for their success is because they're already an old and big company and fan loyalty keeps them afloat for now. GW have changed a lot in the last couple of years, but I doubt they've changed all that much from being the nigh-monopoly they were a decade ago.

[9mm]

GW? ...Can't even tell me definitively what's coming out in three weeks. Everything is coated in a thin layer of Soon^TM.

Two words: Sylveneth Battletome

[LeSwordfish]

Two words: Sylveneth Battletome

In fairness, this was an unusual case, and they were unusually open about what happened.

[Avaris]

I suspect that, at some point in the past, someone in management made the decision not to announce release schedules far in advance, and that then stuck and has become a tradition that no-one feels able to challenge. I think that’s how a lot of the way GW does things evolved. It is one of the two stupidest things GW does IMO (alongside not having a method of distributing rules for free/cheaply online).

In completely unrelated news, according to the latest Voxcast there are only four 40k ruleswriters in the studio. Take that information as you will.

[Wraith]

Two words: Sylveneth Battletome

I'm not familiar with that one - what happened?

[Saambell]

In completely unrelated news, according to the latest Voxcast there are only four 40k ruleswriters in the studio. Take that information as you will.

I think the proper follow up question to that bit of news is: What armies do they personally play?
Everyone remembers the old rumour/fact of the Imperial Guard Tank Nut writing the Tyranid codex for 5th and handing out nerfs due to constantly being kicked around by them, so we all fear that happening again. What army the writer has in mind for themselves very much colours how they design another army. When told "this army should be fast and mobile" their immediate thought is comparing that to their army, and that can lead to flawed designs. What a Death Guard player thinks of when they hear "fast" and what a Drukhari player thinks of when they hear "fast" would be very different things I would bet.

Also, for those talking about Forge World, just remember Dracius is also Aussie like Cheesegear, but in an even more Tryhard and WAAC meta then him. And remember that Cheesegear is the casual of his meta, and look how much you complain he's a tryhard. So those players of Forge World stuff are all paying a mint to get a hold of the models, and are some of the most tryhard cheese mongers on the planet, they are not at all looking at the cool and fluffy models and rules, they instantly and immediately went right for the most pay to win at all costs models and rules. Every model you use to say "Forge World is fine" was ignored completely with not even a single look. And once again there's "its fine in my meta, why are you complaining" going on here.

[9mm]

In fairness, this was an unusual case, and they were unusually open about what happened.

open cause they had announced the release date.

I'm not familiar with that one - what happened?

China got pissy, held the boat the Battletome worldwide printing was on for over a month, and threw the entirety of the AOS release schedule out of wack.

GW practices just in time delivery for release product, which if disrupted can throw everything off. Given the current economic climate, disruptions are practically guaranteed, so they wait till the last second to announce releases.

[Renegade Paladin]

Look me in the eye and ask me again, "Are Space Wolves a joke?" - I double-dare ya.



It is, but... I don't want to use home-made print-offs of datasheets.

Sisters of Battle, Blood Angels, and former-Index players hated doing it and so do I - please GW, just tell me when my book comes out so that I can give money to you? That's all I need; if it could come out sooner than "TBA" that would be a nice bonus, y'know?

It took them what, three weeks to announce the next pair? I can't see it taking very long to run through the set.

[Blackhawk748]

In completely unrelated news, according to the latest Voxcast there are only four 40k ruleswriters in the studio. Take that information as you will.

That...that's not enough people. Not for this many Factions and Subfactions. I would say 8 would be a better number to work with and make sure they all don't overlap for primary army.

I think the proper follow up question to that bit of news is: What armies do they personally play?
Everyone remembers the old rumour/fact of the Imperial Guard Tank Nut writing the Tyranid codex for 5th and handing out nerfs due to constantly being kicked around by them, so we all fear that happening again. What army the writer has in mind for themselves very much colours how they design another army. When told "this army should be fast and mobile" their immediate thought is comparing that to their army, and that can lead to flawed designs. What a Death Guard player thinks of when they hear "fast" and what a Drukhari player thinks of when they hear "fast" would be very different things I would bet.

The Cudmeister did write the 5th ed Codex. And from what I understand (supposidly this is a quote more or less from him) he made the 5th Ed Codex Monster Mash because he thought thats what Nids wanted. Apparently forgetting that 4th ed was Bug Carpet for Days and so most people only had 3 Carnifexes and like 2 Hive Tyrants, but oodles and oodles of Gaunts, Gants and Stealers.

He wasn't popular after that, but points for apologizing.

[Renegade Paladin]

The Cudmeister did write the 5th ed Codex. And from what I understand (supposidly this is a quote more or less from him) he made the 5th Ed Codex Monster Mash because he thought thats what Nids wanted. Apparently forgetting that 4th ed was Bug Carpet for Days and so most people only had 3 Carnifexes and like 2 Hive Tyrants, but oodles and oodles of Gaunts, Gants and Stealers.

He wasn't popular after that, but points for apologizing.

I don't believe for a second that was an accident. If everyone already has a carpet of bugs, making carpets of bugs remain good means they won't sell more models. Nerf what people have and buff what they don't, and they have to buy more stuff.

[Blackhawk748]

I don't believe for a second that was an accident. If everyone already has a carpet of bugs, making carpets of bugs remain good means they won't sell more models. Nerf what people have and buff what they don't, and they have to buy more stuff.

Ya, but that didn't work. Every Tyranid player I knew stopped playing nids during 5th, cuz they were terrible. The only Nid players I saw from that era were new and their armies weren't all that great when they finally got new Codexes.

Basically, Nids get screwed every update, even if the book is good.

[Cheesegear]

GW practices just in time delivery for release product, which if disrupted can throw everything off. Given the current economic climate, disruptions are practically guaranteed, so they wait till the last second to announce releases.

But, even before Sylvaneth, GW's release schedule was still unknown. People have been asking for an Inquisition redo since Super-Faction tags got nerfed out of the game back in FAQ 1. Any idea when Sisters of Silence are going to come back? Getting pretty tired of those Thousand Sons Supreme Commands, and it'd be really good if the best anti-Psyker units in the game weren't paradoxically total trash.

Will Black Templars get their own release like in previous editions and remember when the 4th Ed. Codex was the best? Or will they be part of the Imperial Fists Supplement because Imperial Fists have different rules for their Successors that don't quite make sense given how other Chapters work?

"Keep an eye on our in-house advertising full of half-truths and glaring omissions to find out!"

...But Imperial Fists are already sent to print. I know it to be true, because you're going to release them before Christmas. So just tell me if Crimson Fists and Black Templars are in it, or not. I'm not even asking for a release date. Just the format of the book, which I know you could find out.

"Aren't you excited to wait to find out!?"

**** off.

[Drasius]

I think the proper follow up question to that bit of news is: What armies do they personally play?
Everyone remembers the old rumour/fact of the Imperial Guard Tank Nut writing the Tyranid codex for 5th and handing out nerfs due to constantly being kicked around by them, so we all fear that happening again. What army the writer has in mind for themselves very much colours how they design another army. When told "this army should be fast and mobile" their immediate thought is comparing that to their army, and that can lead to flawed designs. What a Death Guard player thinks of when they hear "fast" and what a Drukhari player thinks of when they hear "fast" would be very different things I would bet.

Plus the Eldar being Phil McKrackin Kelly's darlings being another standout.

Also, for those talking about Forge World, just remember Dracius is also Aussie like Cheesegear, but in an even more Tryhard and WAAC meta then him. And remember that Cheesegear is the casual of his meta, and look how much you complain he's a tryhard. So those players of Forge World stuff are all paying a mint to get a hold of the models, and are some of the most tryhard cheese mongers on the planet, they are not at all looking at the cool and fluffy models and rules, they instantly and immediately went right for the most pay to win at all costs models and rules. Every model you use to say "Forge World is fine" was ignored completely with not even a single look. And once again there's "its fine in my meta, why are you complaining" going on here.

To be fair, I'm also a filthy casual at heart, so a lot of this is more of a player outlook/expectation mismatch, but I'm less willing to bend my outlook than Cheese is for "casual" games.

It's also a bit of an odd spot, 'cause, for example: an Ares is $665 AUD, a single Sicaran is $190 AUD and a Cerastus Chassis Knight is $430 AUD. For comparison, a Castellan is $280 AUD and no ******* around with shipping. I have a feeling that most people are going to be using a "non-standard forgeworld" to aquire their models though, and after the insane price hike that happened a few years ago, I no longer blame them at all. In fact, it might be that chinaforge becoming an acceptable alternative to official FW has led to FW becoming acceptable.

While I personally can still afford to keep up on the bleeding edge of pay to win if I want to, there's quite a few guys here who can't, and it wouldn't surprise me if more than a few of them have been alientated because of it. There were quite a few regulars missing from the store when I went in and I wonder if this is why?

The Cudmeister did write the 5th ed Codex. And from what I understand (supposidly this is a quote more or less from him) he made the 5th Ed Codex Monster Mash because he thought thats what Nids wanted. Apparently forgetting that 4th ed was Bug Carpet for Days and so most people only had 3 Carnifexes and like 2 Hive Tyrants, but oodles and oodles of Gaunts, Gants and Stealers.

He wasn't popular after that, but points for apologizing.

I don't believe for a second that was an accident. If everyone already has a carpet of bugs, making carpets of bugs remain good means they won't sell more models. Nerf what people have and buff what they don't, and they have to buy more stuff.

RP is right on the money IMHO.

Ya, but that didn't work. Every Tyranid player I knew stopped playing nids during 5th, cuz they were terrible. The only Nid players I saw from that era were new and their armies weren't all that great when they finally got new Codexes.

Basically, Nids get screwed every update, even if the book is good.

Which is weird, since all I ever heard was complaints about the death of Nidzilla in 6th/7th. Maybe it was just the guys who'd started in 5th going through the same thing and having to buy 5 flyrants to stay competative?

[Cheesegear]

In fact, it might be that chinaforge becoming an acceptable alternative to official FW has led to FW becoming acceptable.

Forge World East considerably lowering the price of models (i.e; The Barrier to Entry) is definitely what caused its spread. Once more people had access to the same things, the more fair it became. If everyone was able to play by the same rules, there was no real reason to disallow it anymore.

Especially after Forge World West's 'Pay in your native currency inflation.' price hike which screwed over everyone who doesn't live in the UK.

Which is weird, since all I ever heard was complaints about the death of Nidzilla in 6th/7th. Maybe it was just the guys who'd started in 5th going through the same thing and having to buy 5 flyrants to stay competative?

And now Bug Carpet is most assuredly back.
However, I wouldn't say NidZilla is back, moreso that that 'Medium' Tyranids (e.g; Warriors, Zoans, Biovores) are more competitive than they've ever been. Still not as good as Bug Carpet. But if you ran a unit of 9 Warriors, you will not lose the game because of it.

[Blackhawk748]

Which is weird, since all I ever heard was complaints about the death of Nidzilla in 6th/7th. Maybe it was just the guys who'd started in 5th going through the same thing and having to buy 5 flyrants to stay competitive?

Yup, cuz the Bug Carpet guys were reasonably happy with 6th and 7th. Though noone was happy with the 5 Flyrants thing. That **** was annoying.

[LansXero]

FW is still untested trash, more so than GW is untested trash. You cant look at the Ares and say with a straight face that it makes sense, specially in the army its in. The Calladius is good, slightly OP due to Shield-Captains but its manageable, but as more people go to recasters they'll push the rules even harder to keep pumping expensive resin to whales. Its a slippery slope people shouldn't thread, unless they enjoy their games becoming even more rocket tag than they already are. Have you ever played against 6 Crimson Hunters and 3 Phoenixes? Its a pretty miserable thing, I tell you. And I was the one doing the killing (:

[Turalisj]

You mean the Ares being a semi decent anti armor in an army that is good at killing medium sized targets and universally costs more per model than any other army in the game?

[Drasius]

You mean the Ares being a semi decent anti armor in an army that is good at killing medium sized targets and universally costs more per model than any other army in the game?

- 22 T8 wounds with a 5++ and -1 to be hit with that level of firepower is not inconsiderable
- Which army it comes from has little relevance when soup is the order of the day
- Which other things the army it comes from is good at is also of little relevance when soup is the standard rather than confined to narrative as it should be
- $ cost per model is not, and should never be, a balancing factor

[Manticoran]

Ya, but that didn't work. Every Tyranid player I knew stopped playing nids during 5th, cuz they were terrible. The only Nid players I saw from that era were new and their armies weren't all that great when they finally got new Codexes.

Basically, Nids get screwed every update, even if the book is good.

Oh look it's me. I had almost all gaunts and genestealers and warriors, with lictor and biovore support, all of which were trash suddenly. I would have been better off swapping to another army entirely.

[Avaris]

open cause they had announced the release date.



China got pissy, held the boat the Battletome worldwide printing was on for over a month, and threw the entirety of the AOS release schedule out of wack.

GW practices just in time delivery for release product, which if disrupted can throw everything off. Given the current economic climate, disruptions are practically guaranteed, so they wait till the last second to announce releases.

Even with just in time, their lead times are such that they know approximately what is coming up. And this isn’t the (only?) reason they delay announcing releaes: they do it to ‘build excitement’ and encourage immediate spend on the latest shiny thing. They don’t want people to get distracted from this week’s purchase by next weeks.

From a purely business standpoint it makes some sense, except that it limits trust from customers. Hence my theory that this is a holdover from years back when GW was being led by business needs entirely - this is a decision made by the same people who said ‘we don’t need market research’. It smacks of arrogance towards customers and ignorance of the ways a company can engage with the hobby it is creating. I suspect it is such an established way of doing things that it is now difficult to challenge and change internally.

Even with JIT and a desire to make people excited for the next thing it’s perfectly possible for GW to give us more information than they do. My preferred model would be announcing major releases by quarter; you don’t necessarily need much detail, but confirming which armies are getting major releases in a quarter would help people feel more confident in their purchases. Which is important, because there is a conflict between what GW thinks will happen as a result of keeping releases secret and what actually happens. What GW thinks is that if someone sees something they like one week and then another thing they want even more the next they will buy both. In many cases though what happens is they buy the first, can’t afford the second, and end up resenting the purchase in some small way, eroding their goodwill towards GW and lowering the bar for them simply leaving the hobby.

[Cheesegear]

Each six is now 4 automatic wounds.

To clarify for the cheap seats, because if you try doing this, you actually have to prove how it works:
Roll a 6 = Hit
Paired Combat Blades = +1 Hit. "...additional hits are treated as having rolled the same value as the dice roll that generated them..."
Whirlwind of Rage = +2 hits, because at this point you have 'rolled' two 6s, so Whirlwind processes twice, not once. Then, because of the rule, you are now treated as having rolled four 6s.

Gene-Wrought Might; A 6 to hit equals an auto-wound.

I have...Issues...With Whirlwind proccing twice. But, it's also a classic cheese brought on because of poor rules-writing.

I wouldn't recommend trying it.

Even with JIT and a desire to make people excited for the next thing it’s perfectly possible for GW to give us more information than they do.

Even worse is **** like Forgebane or Shadowspear. Like, holy ****, new models, OMG buy the box 'cause once it's gone it's gone forever. Generate FOMO like a bunch of ********s, then 3-6 months later they just...Release the thing. Except better, because now they're not ETB kits.

It pisses me off everytime because the only people who benefit from those type of sales are the aftermarket people in that small window between 'OOP Gone Forever' and 'Just kidding, everything's back'.

My preferred model would be announcing major releases by quarter

Affirmative. I don't care when it's specifically going to be released. But a head's up all the same would be nice.

Given that we know when Raven Guard/Iron Hands came out...

17/8 - Space Marines, Ultramarines, White Scards
21/9 - Raven Guard, Iron Hands
26/10 - Imperial Fists, Salamanders

That seems pretty reasonable as a guess. But Imperial Fists coming out at the end of October, which means that people will be making purchases well into November.
That'll cannibalise sales from Sororitas, maybe. Especially if Crimson Fists remain as good as they were in White Dwarf. And of course we're waiting on those Infiltrator boxes.

Then of course you have to remember to set aside a few cashbux 'cause Chapter Approved '19 is coming out, and you have to be prepared for one or two meta-shifts like Thunder Hammers going to 40 Points and Blood Angels setting Smash Captains on fire and being forced to buy new models - like Lemartes which they should have already.

And it just doesn't stop. The goal is just to overwhelm people with constant releases and never, ever go backwards.

In many cases though what happens is they buy the first, can’t afford the second, and end up resenting the purchase in some small way, eroding their goodwill towards GW and lowering the bar for them simply leaving the hobby.

One thing that was noted from the Haarkon Worldbreaker problem. They're allowed to change any rule that they don't advertise within weeks. This is - IMO - partially why people were sitting on their thumbs regarding making Space Marine purchases. Don't buy anything that looks too good, 'cause it will get nerfed. Wait 'til Errata/confirmation and then start buying models.
...And I haven't bought any Space Marine models - not even the Warsuits - since the Codex came out five weeks ago, 'cause GW has burned me too many times and now I'm not going to buy anything until all the Supplements are out which wont be until the end of October.


ION:
I forgot to get NOVA Results for Kill Team just to keep my head in. I have no idea what the current Kill Team meta is. But, given how nothing at all has changed since Elites, I imagine it's still the same.
Anyone know?
Google told me. I didn't think it would be that easy. But it was. Looking up Rosters usually isn't that easy.

[bluntpencil]

On the Incursor: an addendum to the Codex Astartes, by Roboute Guilliman

Here's the deal.

Play as Ultramarine Successors.

Take Whirlwind of Rage as a Tactic.

Spam Incursors. Done.

Take a Phobos Chapter Master (making him a CM costs 2CP), with the Reliquary of Vengeance. Chapter Master isn't 100% required, due to the Sons of Guilliman stratagem, but it's probably worth it.

Take some sort of Ancient, with the Standard of Macragge Inviolate (using the Honoured by Macragge Stratagem at 1 CP). Put him in a Drop Pod (preferable) or Impulsor.

Turn One, get your dudes into position. Not too hard.

Charge. Super easy. Make sure you stop your Incursors just under 1" away from the enemy. Also, make sure you have some in a second rank, just under 1" from your first rank. This ensures that your buff Ancient is in range, and everyone gets to attack.

Activate Gene-Wrought Might. Activate Reliquary of Vengeance. Activate Squad Doctrine (Assault).

Now, re-roll every attack (of which the Incursors have 51) which is not a 6. Every 6 is 4 auto-wounds, at AP-1. You should be getting an average of 62.333 autowounding hits, at AP-1.

[Cheesegear]

Take some sort of Ancient, with the Standard of Macragge Inviolate (using the Honoured by Macragge Stratagem at 1 CP). Put him in a Drop Pod...

...Objection!

If this nerd doesn't complete his Charge, he's at least 9" away from enemy models. Standard of Macragge Inviolate specifies models, not units (pretty sure all Banners do). If you're within 6" of the Banner, you're not making Melee attacks vs. an enemy unit.

To be fair, Reliquary lasts until the end of the phase.
Which means if you declared your Charges right, and Consolidated correctly the first time, Honour the Chapter will make someone sad.

...Then your opponent rolls a '6' and steals first turn. GG.

On the Incursor: an addendum to the Codex Astartes, by Roboute Guilliman

Umm...It requires a Successor Chapter, not the Ultramarines themselves.

I Can't Believe My Sons Are So Stupid That They've Been Reading the Same Book for 10,000 Years And Haven't Bothered Changing It
...Guilliman even says so himself in Dark Imperium.

[bluntpencil]

...Objection!

If this nerd doesn't complete his Charge, he's at least 9" away from enemy models. Standard of Macragge Inviolate specifies models, not units (pretty sure all Banners do). If you're within 6" of the Banner, you're not making Melee attacks vs. an enemy unit.

To be fair, Reliquary lasts until the end of the phase.
Which means if you declared your Charges right, and Consolidated correctly the first time, Honour the Chapter will make someone sad.


...Then your opponent rolls a '6' and steals first turn. GG.

Good point!

Still, a 32mm base is 1.2 inches.

Charge. Do not make base contact. Stop just under an inch away (0.999999"). Add 1.2 inches for a base. A gap (0.9999999"), another 1.2 inches for rank two. Properly finessing your spacing is the way forward. Measure super carefully.

A good chunk of those in the second rank will be in range.

Screw it, charge the Ancient too. Or put him in an Impulsor, move it 14", disembark 3", advance.

If your opponent steals first turn? Who cares. Spam those Incursors. With Tactical Withdrawal as a Tactic, at least one of those units will be stabbing everyone. Failing that, Hungry for Battle means the Ancient is likely to make it into the fight.

EDIT:

Has the Standard of Macragge Inviolate been Erratad? It says Units, not models, in my Codex?

EDIT EDIT:

The Standard of Macragge Inviolate appears to be go. Not models, but units. Make sure you space correctly, and you'll be stabbing better than Flesh Tearers.