Trog's Thread of Blatant Advertising!

[Trog]

The subject for this thread (discussion started in (of all places) the chivalry thread post #317) is advertising and marketing. How do you feel about it? What do you like about it? Hate? Is it Evil? Etc. Have at it!

*Eat at Trog's Tavern*
Vomit free for 0002 days!

[Death, your friend the Reaper]

Wish to have bones that the other personifications will be jealous of?

Tiered of people laughing at your brown bones?

Didn't drink enough calcium as a child?

If you answered yes to one or more of these questions try:

Death's Easy Bleach!
9/10 Anthropomorphic figures recommend it!

Only $4.99 while stocks last!*

*Ill advised side effects include: immortality, eternal pain, dully of senses, loss of human emotions, loss of skin, loss of hair, giddiness, and in extreme cases Death. Use only as directed.

[Serpentine]

Well, I figure it's doing its job when an ad is flogged to death on TV, yet it doesn't get on your nerves... SHOUTING IS NOT AN EFFECTIVE ADVERTISING MEDIUM

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[Trog]

Trog advises you to brace for thread merge and keep your hands and feet inside the thread at all times.

[Midnight Son]

Vomit free for 0002 days!

Is it really free, or do you have to buy some ridiculously priced item to get it and you just say it's free because you didn't put a price tag on it?

[Alarra]

Oooh fun...*plays with neat modly tools she never uses* All the posts regarding advertising and the media are now lovingly tucked in here. Although it makes for a less pretty and impressive first post. *wanders away to see about fixing that*

[Trog]

Oooh fun...*plays with neat modly tools she never uses*

Is there a taser? And why do I now picture you with a Bat Girl utility belt?

[FdL]

Hey ^^

Yeah, it's on the dark side alright.

I understand that advertisment is the basis of capitalism, and that it's a natural way to let the public know of the options they have when making a purchase.

The problem I have with advertising and marketing is mainly that nowadays they are too aggressive. They don't seem to care about the consumer apart from selling them stuff. The view marketing geniuses have of people is of pigeonholing them into percentual charts and squeezing as much information they can use to sell things to them.

And one thing is when this means that they match the right customer with the right product type and then they can present it as better alternative than the others. Using tricks we all know by now (more on that later).

But a major point is that they often try to sell things to people who don't need them. They create a need to buy when it's not there. And they can really sell you anything.

What I don't like about this is how they appeal to basic traits of people, basic needs, desires and dreams, and they use it to squeeze money out of them...Shall I say this feels like being cheated?

And because of this last point and also because of the way they present their products as desirable goals in a consumerist society, the impact they have in culture and society is too large. It's too large a responsability, to influence the values and goals and dreams of people in such way. Especially when the only drive behind companies and corporations is to make money.

So there, my point is how aggressive money-making strategies often clash with moral and ethical issues.


I'll give a little example of my view on marketing.
A year back maybe, I was walking on the street with my then girlfriend. Then a street salesman approached us. He was selling perfumes. Not original perfumes, but copies of know fragrances.

Well, he approached us and tried to start his pitch. I tried to be as polite as possible and tell him that we didn't want what he was selling.

I don't consider as polite the way the guy kept talking (sweet talking, which I didn't like with my girlfriend there) and doing his stuff whether we liked it or not. I confronted him and calmly told him that I didn't want to buy his perfumes because I don't use them (those), so that he didn't have to waste my time and his knowing this. I told him that I didn't like aggressive marketing strategies, because I was a conscious consumer and when I wanted something I was the one to look for it and make an active purchase.

The guy kept at it (persistent and smiling all the while), saying that according to the laws of marketing "I wanted the product but I didn't know it" and citing other similar well-studied lines (because in my city these street salesmen, all well dressed in their suits, are often marketing students... :s).

This encounter really angered me and was a perfect example of why I don't like hate marketing as a practice. He didn't care about what I wanted, he thought he knew about what I was willing to buy better than I did. And well, I somehow refuse to be told what to do and think, especially based on vague socioeconomic generalizations from a bunch of yuppies.

There. I feel better now :D

[Cyrano]

Is there a taser? And why do I now picture you with a Bat Girl utility belt?

Because you're psychic.
And, wow, a moved topic, moved for being off topic. T'would be a shame if it went off topic.
I'm going to give my unnecessary two cents.

Calling advertising exploitation is ridiculous. It's like saying a beggar asking for money is immoral, or that a husband asking his spouse to do the dishwasher for him is insensitive. They ASK you to go and do it. The reason the beggar does not say "My name is Joe, and you can call me to donate at 111-111-1111. Please, call now, at 111-111-1111. My life depends upon it, at the handy number of 111-111-1111": is because the beggar is right there. The only reason the husband does not say " The dishwasher is in the kitchen, ok? Could you do it for me? In the kitchen? That's where you have to go. It's in the ktichen." is because it's their house. The advertiser has no direct link to the consumer save information and placement, both of which change constantly. They repeat things because they have to. Exploitation is forcing south africans to work for pennies. Advertising is a polite form of asking you to give them money in exchange for a service. Now, if they bought out every single competitor, destroyed them, then overpriced their product by a factor of 1000 and forced you to buy it, THEN, they exploit you.

Now, the reason advertising is so massively disliked, is porbably because you wanna watch 24, Lost, BSG, etc, and 25 minutes of your time is commercials (exageration.) Is that bad? Is it evil to have so much advertising time? No, if you want to pay 40k a year for a television set. Surprise, those ads PAY FOR SOMETHING. Honestly to any dude with willpower, ads are a blessing, not a curse.

Direct, salesman-type ads (as above) are different. They espouse forcing you to listen on your free time you chose to do something else with (contrary to watching TV) to force things on you whether you want or no, with no payoff. None. Zip. Nada. THat's not immoral or exploitation. It's just jerkhood.

[Zeb The Troll]

Is there a taser? And why do I now picture you with a Bat Girl utility belt?

Now there's an idea with some potential.

*gets tazed by Alarra's Moderator-tazer-banana-fana-fo-phazer*

Anyway, after the merge there's a bit of reading to do to get caught up but I think I'm there.

For the most part, I'm inclined to side with Trog in that, in it's basic form, advertising is meant to inform people. Here we have laws that are designed to prevent outright lying about what a product can or cannot do, so we're left with a reasonable facsimile of truth that the consumer needs to know in order to make an informed decision.

Here's where ads affect the decision making process, and again this isn't bad, it's by design. If a user suddenly finds themselves in need of a MightyThing and they go to the store to pick one up, and the store only has two options, the Megastore MightyThing X or the Acme MightyThing 9000, and the user has never even heard of the Megastore model, they are most likely to purchase the Acme model purely on brand recognition, without doing any further research on their own. That's what advertising is supposed to do.

What I don't like is when advertisers focus only on brand recognition and fail to actually inform you about their product in ANY way. I mention again the insurance commercials that are, seriously, a local football player surrounded by dancing girls singing a jingle that is simply "Go Brandname" repeated for 30 seconds.

[Midnight Son]

I have no problems with ads in general, and find using sex appeal or violence to sell product(a la the Miller Light Catfight) amusing, rather than abhoring. What really bugs me is when ad agencies think over-the-top-annoying guy doing his schtick is a good idea. I boycot those products till that commercial stops playing.

The other thing that bugs me about advertising is when they mislead. There may be laws about lying, but I showed an example of this on another thread recently. When Bayer came out with Bayer Select, they were essentially telling us that Asprin only works on headaches and that we need to have a different version for each ache. This is, of course, a load of bull puckey. Since pain medication is delivered through the bloodstream, it goes to all parts of the body. The only difference is the strength of the dose. So, if I had a headache, a stomach ache, and a backache, since I now took three times the recommended dose of painkiller, of course I'm going to think it's working as advertised. I could site many more examples of this, but I like to keep my posts to a reasonable length.

Edit. Oh, and see my post about Trog's free vomit for another pet peeve of mine in advertising.

[averagejoe]

You know, besides being really, really annoying (and I mean reeeeallly annoying), my main beef with advertizing is a lack of ethics. A commercial can tell the truth, follow all the rules, and much of the time it still doesn't seem entirely... right. Like the way that drug commercials list all the side effects quickly and softly, at the end of the commercial. Sure, the info is there, but they're less concerned about telling you that you might fall asleep while driving (true story) than how you'll reconcile with your father, or your kids will be happy, or whatever.

Then we get into the unnecessary manipulation. Associating a clothing line with domestic bliss, or other such silliness. The whole thing is rather distasteful.

[Yiel]

There is a certain type of mass-advertising often used in Australia, which is pretty much this:

"JEANS JEANS JEANS! BRANDNAME WE CAN'T TELL YOU LIKE LEVI AND CALVIN KLIEN! GET YOUR JEANS LIMITED SALES AT THE WAREHOUSE! THE WAREHOUSE! WE CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT BRANDS *flashing brand names across screen* JEANS JEANS JEANS! AT THE WAREHOUSE! ONLY UNTIL 5PM SUNDAY! GET YOUR JEANS BEFORE THEY'RE ALLLLLL GONE! ONLY AT THE WAREHOUSE ONLY UNTIL 5PM THIS SUNDAY!"

Its a nice reason not to turn the television on during peak advertising times. Not all advertising is bad though. For example, the not-for-profit organisation I currently work for needs to advertise our service, so that people who need our free services can find us. If we didn't advertise, the people who need us wouldn't be able to find us. Word of mouth is even a form of advertising.

Even with the "JEANS" advertisement, they are just letting us know their product/service is out there. Annoying as it is:

[Trog]

The problem I have with advertising and marketing is mainly that nowadays they are too aggressive. They don't seem to care about the consumer apart from selling them stuff. The view marketing geniuses have of people is of pigeonholing them into percentual charts and squeezing as much information they can use to sell things to them.

In order to bust through the glazed eyes don't care mentality that often happens with ads you HAVE to be agressive. Maybe not hassle you on the street agressive but you have to be serious about getting people to notice you. And advertisers DO care about more than just selling you stuff. They WANT you to be satisfied. Why? Because then you TELL someone you are satisfied. And they tell someone else. Word of mouth and reputation carries a LOT of weight in business. It can make a small business thrive or a big business sink. Or anywhere in between.

And yes market research to determine people's buying habits IS very important. Without that you are just working in the dark. You may not be advertising in the right medium to reach your audience. You have to reach people that want the product. Believe it or not most marketing is about who NOT to advertise to. And therefore making sure that that you don't have to sit through ads that don't apply to you.

What I don't like about this is how they appeal to basic traits of people, basic needs, desires and dreams, and they use it to squeeze money out of them...Shall I say this feels like being cheated?

And because of this last point and also because of the way they present their products as desirable goals in a consumerist society, the impact they have in culture and society is too large. It's too large a responsability, to influence the values and goals and dreams of people in such way. Especially when the only drive behind companies and corporations is to make money.

So there, my point is how aggressive money-making strategies often clash with moral and ethical issues.

Yes the most effective advertising appeals to people's base wants and desires. Why? Well first off it works. Why would you want to appeal to whatever the opposite of "wants" are? Would that work? No. You wouldn't care and then would be annoyed at the commercial or ad because it was innane and pointless.

So let's take sex for example. Lets take human attraction as a base need to want or desire or whatever.

Let's say I make a shaver. I show a studly guy shaving with my shaver and show his woman admiring his smooth face. Think this doesn't actually happen in real life? It does. Now if you made the mistaken assumption that you would buy their shaver and "get a girl like that" well then you just missed the whole point. The point of that man and that woman in there was to demonstrate the product. Why? BECAUSE YOU STARE AT THEM. Because deep down we all like looking at hot people. So it gets your attention. And maybe, just maybe, you will notice the razor. And so the next time you go to buy one and you have no idea which one to get you'll grab their razor because you recognize the name.

So how are you being cheated? You got to look at hot people for free. You would have anyways if they had been on a TV show. Would you have felt manipulated then?

And saying it's too large of a responsibility accomplishes nothing. First of all it seems to assume that all advertisers get together to decide these things or something like that. They don't. They compete with one another. The consumers do the deciding.

I'll give a little example of my view on marketing.
*snip*

I feel your pain. No one like people that aren't good at their job harassing them. But taking that guy as THE example of marketing would be to overlook and therefore do a disservice to those who do it well.

Is it really free, or do you have to buy some ridiculously priced item to get it and you just say it's free because you didn't put a price tag on it?

Actually I meant it in an "Accident Free Work Site" kind of way. Great. Now I have to give out free vomit.

[Rockphed]

You know, besides being really, really annoying (and I mean reeeeallly annoying), my main beef with advertizing is a lack of ethics. A commercial can tell the truth, follow all the rules, and much of the time it still doesn't seem entirely... right. Like the way that drug commercials list all the side effects quickly and softly, at the end of the commercial. Sure, the info is there, but they're less concerned about telling you that you might fall asleep while driving (true story) than how you'll reconcile with your father, or your kids will be happy, or whatever.

I know somebody who sells drugs. No, not illegal things, and not by making commercials. He actually goes to doctors and informs them about drugs. And he will agree with you that drug ads are evil. evil. Not , . Why? For starters, because they always sell the newest drug. This in and of itself is not evil, but what comes next is. Drug patents expire after 13 years or so. These new drugs sometimes have unexpected side effects, which often don't show up for years. So, don't listen to drug ads, talk to your doctor.

And speaking of ads, Would Trog mind if I Borrowed his "Remember Kids: Don't drink, don't smoke, and don't consort with Troglodytes" banner?

[Serpentine]

Here is why I don't like advertising, and also "GO Harvey go Harvey Norman GO go Harvey go Harvey Norman GO!!!!!!". Admittedly, some advertisers do get it right - they make ads that you don't mind watching, that makes the product seem desirable, and that one way or another give some information about the product. For some reason it's mostly beer, though.

Oh, another form of advertising that bugs me can be seen here.

Also, I'm told that in most countries there aren't any ads during movies. Not sure how true that is... But to be honest, a lot of the time I don't really mind ads that much... it's when they play the same horribly annoying one 2 or 3 times in the one ad-break, the way they're becoming the defining feature of commercial TV - that is, it feels like you have to wade through an ocean of advertising just for a glimpse of the sandbar of program - and the latest habit of squishing the credits of the movie teeeny tiny at the bottom of the screen so they can show ever more advertising for stuff you don't want to buy or programs you don't want to watch. Like this:

BLOODY ANNOYING ADVERTISING
hardworking folk whose show/movie you just watched. Want to know who played that character? Too bad!

[KuReshtin]

I usually like watching commercials. Mainly to try and see if the advertising companies have tried to do something new and interesting, find a new angle to get you to notice their product. However, when you've heard about the "No win, no fee" injury claims lawyers 15 times in the last hour and a half or so, you do get fed up with them.

Some of the ads I like are the Bud Light "Real Men of Genius" ads, the coffee ads that has the tag line "When you get unexpected company" and the "Diet IRN BRU" ads over here in the UK. Oh, and the grand daddy of all ads (in my opinion, that is) "Terry Tate; Office Linebacker"

I could probably find YouTube clips of all of them, but I'm not sure if it would break the rules of the board or not, so I'll abstain for now.

[Charity]

OK re advertising.
I have no objection to people trying to flog stuff to adults, we're are responsible for our own lives and purse strings and can only blame ourselves for any poor decisions we make.
I do however object to advertising aimed at children. They do not have an independant income and are not as resiliant to advertising as adults (which is why they are mercylessly targeted by advertising)
Don't tell me that the advertising can be avoided because it simply is not true.
Adverts are everywhere, on childrens TV, magazines/comics, billboards, buses other children, films ... you get the picture. http://www.media-awareness.ca/englis...arget_kids.cfm
These adverts openly encourage children to nag their parents Bart and Lisa style until they fold. They also establish relentless consumerism in our next generation... (I shall not pursue this for fear of becoming too political) Sorry Trog, you are a lovely fellow and all, but I fear much of the blame must lie with advertising.
A huge amount of research is put into more effective ways of apealing to our underlying nature, in an attempt to make the advertising irresistable.
If you throw temptation at us everywhere we go you cannot say that it is entirely our fault if we succomb that is not a realistic assesment of the situation.
2006 money spent on TV advertising alone was estimated $417 billion, given that sort of budget what chance do they have?

[Jorkens]

Then we get into the unnecessary manipulation. Associating a clothing line with domestic bliss, or other such silliness. The whole thing is rather distasteful.

This is really the beef for me. If you live in a developed country, you're basically bombarded from the age of 0 with a constant stream of
BUY THINGS!
BUY THINGS!
If you aren't happy or popular it's because YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH THINGS!
There is no road to happiness beyond OWNING LOTS OF THINGS!
If you can't afford enough things (which you can't because there's always something else to want) then you should WORK YOUR FINGERS TO THE BONE to get MORE THINGS!
YOU ARE WHAT YOU OWN!
The ULTIMATE GOAL OF HUMANITY is to OWN AS MUCH STUFF AS POSSIBLE!
And so on. And we wonder that people are messed up...

Although to be fair, I don't think it's just advertising that does this - look at the 'lifestyle' section of a newspaper or magazine or, well, pretty much anywhere else in society.

I'd better stop now before I use the phrase "consumer capitalism"...

[North]

First to all those people out there who hate commercials there is a solution.

Buy a PVR, Tivo, DVR. You can just fast forward right thru the commercials. Although ive used it a couple times to see commercials again. IE Transformers.

IM a commercial whore. Brand Name does matter.

What honestly tastes better?

Kraft Dinner or Macaroni with cheese?

Frosted Flakes or Suger Coated Flakes?

Coca Cola or Safeway Select Cola flavour?

KD IS cheesier. Sugercoated flakes are all rounded and not as sugary. And Safeway Select leaves kind of a gritty aftertaste in my mouth. Actually my favorite version of coke is from mcdonalds when its fresh before teh ice starts to melt mmmm. Its got a very perfect zenlike balance there.

Bad advertising will also make me never buy a product line. A couple years back Quiznos had some sort of singing roadkill commercials. I refused to ever eat there. EVER.

I like advertising. It help me make up my mind if im stuck between two choices. All other things being equal the Tag commercial was better then the Axe one. Ill buy Tag. No I dont think that it will cause random women to start tackling me for my body. Although I wouldnt mind. But when there is no other difference Ill reward the team who made me laugh harder.

And for a lot of products what can they exactly inform you about? Like pants lets say. What needs to be informed? They cover your bum and end at the feet. So lets do something funny and throw the pants in there.

There is one group I would love to send to that special level of hell reserved for child molesters and people who talk during movies. The people who send frickin email spam. Cause you know the first couple thousand emails about viagralix didnt convince me, but you know email 3,001 sold me. ARGHGH.

[LCR]

Nasty grill? He never heard of a brillo pad?

EDIT: That all looks like it would rot your brain............. But, it's your brain to rot. "It's exactly the kind of thing you'd like if you like that kind of thing."

I've seen it, look what happened ...

[Zephra]

Vote Zephra most air elemental in the playground!

[LCR]

Vote Zephra most air elemental in the playground!

Maybe. What are you offering?

[Thes Hunter]

Yay! It looks like it's Trog vs. the Playground.

*grabs some name brand popcorn*
*sits down*
*tosses in a couple kernels*

Blah!

*gets back up wanders in the kitchen*
*gets out the butter, notices it is the fresh off brand stuff, puts it back*
*Grabs the name brand stuff and cuts off the little oxidized bits*
*melts the butter and pours it on the popcorn*

*goes back to her bean bag chair*
*throws the namebrand popcorn up, and catches it in her mouth*
*namebrand grease tumbling down the chin contented namebrand smiles*

[ZombieRockStar]

I like advertising. It help me make up my mind if im stuck between two choices. All other things being equal the Tag commercial was better then the Axe one. Ill buy Tag. No I dont think that it will cause random women to start tackling me for my body. Although I wouldnt mind. But when there is no other difference Ill reward the team who made me laugh harder.

Or, alternately, you could buy stick deodorant that doesn't smell worse than the odour it tries to mask...

And, dude, KD is a national icon, man. Of course it tastes better. The only question in your mind should be: with ketchup or without?

I like the Gillette commercials where they think that adding yet another blade to a disposable razor equals a huge scientific breakthrough. They make me want to go out and search for one of those old straight-blade ones you have to clean.

[Jibar]

I'm terrible when it comes to advertising.
I'm communist naturally, but when some kind of food advert comes on, specifically, a breakfast cereal, I turn into a consumer whore.
Seriously, I turn on the TV one morning and there's a Coco Pops advert. I'm out in Morrisons later getting lunch with friends, and what do I buy? A box of Coco Pops.
Since then, I have Coco Pops with Frosties every morning.
The Frosties will be with me until the grave, thanks to so many "They're Grrrrrrrrrreat!" during my childhood.
I also find myself wanting Weetabix baaad every now and then.

[zeratul]

We should spend more time paying attention to important issues, than to paying attention to what Linsy Lohan is wearing. Down with the machine!

[Castaras]

Got some evil that needs doing?

Come To AMEN!

With the evilest and cruellest of the playgrounders all working together to create foul and vile plots to take over the playground with, if you have some paladin that needs smiting, or some do-gooder to have a fatal accident, just pop down to the Giant in the Playground Forums ; Silly Message Boards ; and Structured Games, and the current AMEN thread should be there waiting for you.

So don't delay! Call today, and you'll get free pies, freshly made!

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[Thes Hunter]

^ If wearing black makes you look uncool.... (well unless you are part of AMEN obviously)

I guess pink really is the new black then.

[LCR]

We should spend more time paying attention to important issues, than to paying attention to what Linsy Lohan is wearing. Down with the machine!

That. Is. So. Wrong.
How is Lindsay's skirt not important? Have you seen her lately? She looks like such. A. Trainwreck.
And don't get me started on Nicole's latest Manolos ...

Got some evil that needs doing?

Come To AMEN!

With the evilest and cruellest of the playgrounders all working together to create foul and vile plots to take over the playground with, if you have some paladin that needs smiting, or some do-gooder to have a fatal accident, just pop down to the Giant in the Playground Forums ; Silly Message Boards ; and Structured Games, and the current AMEN thread should be there waiting for you.

So don't delay! Call today, and you'll get free pies, freshly made!

_{*Not all members shown currently.#
#Banner subject to change}

I can wear black AND look cool. And I'm not evil. I like helping people!