Werewolf Classic VIII - Archaeological Wolves

[Zar Peter]

If you're lucky I haven't counted the votes till the edit. The problem is you never know if I already counted... so better make a new post. It's relatively save to edit your vote between 01:00am and 12:00am GMT +1

[Shadow]

Yeah, I was wondering if that was the case. I was looking through the thread and I noticed Shadow did the same thing, but his was counted correctly, so I thought it was legit. My bad.

The difference is that my edit was 2 minutes after my post. Surely it hadn't been counted yet.
Your edit was 2 DAYS after your post. Surely it had been counted already.

Good luck guys.

Oh, and Petey.
That was awesome. But I do have one correction to make....

“Don’t you know the major flaw in the Rule of Shadow?”

“No. What is it?”

“The wolves know the rule of Shadow so they don’t kill him if he’s a villager to make the villagers waste a lynch. In fact, nearly EVERY SINGLE TIME he got lynched (via the RoS) he was a villager and not a wolf.”

[Boo]

Just to be clear, I wasn't using, or endorsing the Rule of Shadow when I said I suspected you.

[Haruki-kun]

“The wolves know the rule of Shadow so they don’t kill him if he’s a villager to make the villagers waste a lynch. In fact, nearly EVERY SINGLE TIME he got lynched (via the RoS) he was a villager and not a wolf.”

As someone who's had one experience in being a wolf in a game where Shadow wasn't a wolf, I can asure you this is not always the case form the wolves' point of view. There is nothing more frustrating to a wolf than a village who just won't lynch the experienced innocent players.

*sulks*

[The Bushranger]

Just to be clear, I wasn't using, or endorsing the Rule of Shadow when I said I suspected you.

Me either. I was going it as being the only possible lead I had on a possible wolf...
Of course, being the Fool, there was a 50% chance I was wrong.

[Jontom Xire]

Trouble is I only found out too late that Shadow and I were up for lynch. I knew he was innocent. I sometimes just can tell.

Ah well. Let's find some wolves. Spreadsheet analysis coming up soonish (hopefully).

[Jontom Xire]

Immediate spreadsheet analysis.

Please let's lynch Mustiado next.

Day 2, points at Shadow.

Day 3, the votes are 4 for Reinholdt and 2 for Helgraf when Mustiado votes Helgraf, closely followed by a few others. Helgraf gets lynched, Reinholdt is saved. Also in key voting were Hap_hazard, Kwarkpudding, and Reinholdt.

Day 4 he "gives away" Murska who then gets night killed. So long as Murska's identity is known by a few in private, if he gets night killed, suspicion falls on them. Once Mustiado blurts it out the wolves can kill with impunity and no real suspicion attaching to Mustiado.

===EDIT===

The key vote switchers on Day 3 from Reinholdt to Helgraf were: Mustiado, Hap_hazard, and Kwarkpudding in that order.

Funnily, at the end of Day 5, three people pointed at Tormsskull: Mustiado, Hap_hazard, and Kwarkpudding. In that order.

Did you three have an accident with a cloning machine, or are you all living int he same house and two of you are on holiday while the third abuses your accounts? Or are you all wolves and co-ordinating your actions. I don't think Mustiado or Hap_hazard would make such a silly mistake (don't know you yet, Kwarkpudding, sorry), but nevertheless...it is strange.

Also Kwarkpudding is alternate day voting. I suspect (s)he's just voting the same as the person above them. In fact every vote has been the same as the person above them. Kwarkpudding, do you have not have your own opinion, are you just short of time, or are you trying to lie low?

[Mustiado]

Oh FFS, JX. Seriously?

You're going to look pretty damn stupid when I get lynched and I'm a villager. And I'm going to feel very silly when I switched my VOTE AWAY FROM YOU TO KEEP YOU FROM BEING LYNCHED.

I voted Tormsskull because Shadow made a valid point about him. I thought it would be possible to rally support towards a bandwagon that wasn't the two of you. No, I don't know why Hap_hazard and Kwarkpudding are following me. The only one I'm even familiar with in passing is HH.

I'm flattered that you think I'm part of a wolf team 'clever' enough to throw a member of the group "to the wolves", to use a popular phrase, just to out the seer and remove suspicion from anyone else. Especially since the tactic is a foolish one, considering my track record of laying low in these games, and usually being left alone. For an example, see the LAST iteration of Classic, where I was one of the last three people in the game to be scried.

You don't think it's more likely that the wolves, after having ONE person take a stand against a runaway wolf bandwagon, aren't following him to make him look suspicious? To have you remove another villager and waste a lynch?

If you feel you absolutely must, lynch me. But you're lynching a villager, taking the easy way out instead of running down a lead on a different wolf.

I'm starting to wish Shadow was the one who had survived the lynch. In that situation, even if he thought I was a wolf, he would have stayed quiet for a few days and tried to analyze more 'wolves' out of my points, and attempted to sweep people up in one fell swoop. I honestly have to wonder about your intentions by creating your own 'seer day' by calling for my lynch before the day has even started.

You already asserted that you believe Kwarkpudding is following the person ahead of them because they're not sure of what's going on. You mention my voting record, but fail to mention the circumstances. Day two, yeah, I voted for Shadow. So have a dozen other people in a handful of games when they want a placeholder vote and don't care to rock the boat. Day Three, I was following one of Shadow's leads. He said he believed Helgraf to be a wolf, and gave a reason why. I'm always going to follow reasoning stated in thread over a mysterious "We think you should point at this person, and no, we won't tell you why" or a random bandwagon. I thought I knew why Murska was pointing at Reinholdt. It was his error that he chose to try to deceive me, and with such a flimsy untruth, as opposed to giving me solid reasoning. This same lie was the reason he got 'outed', as you so called it, and night killed.

[Shadowcaller]

Well since we can almost trust shadow now lets see what his case against Tormskull was. I don't have any better idea.

[Mustiado]

This is breaking three post rule, but it's a new thought now that I've gone back and read the thread again.

JX, you've forced me to do something I loathe to do. Re-read the entire thread, and see what was going on.

I figured as long as we are drawing silly voting parallels, we may as well look at some of yours.

Day 2 - You voted for Murska. The seer. Whereas the logic for my point at shadow was, as follows, "For pointing at Griever for pointing at JX." Griever and I are buddies, everyone knows that, and you took my semi Llama logic for a point that had little or no weight that day and made it into circumstantial evidence. By your system, which is more suspicious? A point at the as yet unrevealed seer, or a silly point at an oft pointed at figure as part of a joke?

Day 3 - You voted for Murska. The seer. Again. Not a lot else to see here, other than there was some early votes for Tormsskull, which was overridden by a Hero 1.0 bandwagon by some interesting folks, including Banjo. We'll get back to that. (That may actually have been day 2. I'm working from incomplete notes at this point, I didn't expect this to be as much of a corollary as it ended up being.) (Oh, also, you left Dirk Kris off of your Day 3 vote switching/adding list, as he ended up being the actual nail in the coffin on Helgraf's wagon. An interesting omission.)

Day 4 - Oh, you didn't point at the seer. You pointed at Reinholdt. Perfectly reasonable. Except for the fact that you were either the first or second person to do it after Reinholdt pointed at himself. Which he did about midway through the day. Plenty of time for you to have communication with the other wolves. Plenty of time for him to confirm that PM I had sent to him, allowing you guys to put together that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Murska was the seer. And you were immediately followed by Banjo, if I recall. As well as Tormsskull, whom you were protecting later that same day, and the day before when the Hero wagon came and removed him as one of the two main lynch candidates. Which was fueled by Banjo.

Day 5 - This would be where you immediately jumped all over me for 'outing the seer.' Made sure that you put it out in plain writing, so that the villagers who didn't follow the game closely would see "outed the seer, and got him killed by the wolves." Very first post of the day. A good way to get people to see things your way. Too bad it drew just as much suspicion as it was meant to cast after I gave some reasoning. Led to a Shadow/JX lynch race. After reviewing everything, I came up with a third possibility, one that Shadow himself originally backed, and one that could have saved him if we had stuck with it: Tormsskull. You posted several times after that, but never mentioned or discussed the possibilities of Tormsskull being a wolf, either in response to Shadow's post or my own. It's almost like you didn't want it mentioned again.

Now, here we are again, with your preemptive strike to have me under suspicion, this time before the day has even began. I wonder who your early support will be. Maybe Banjo1985, Tormsskull, and Istari. No harm in throwing out names here. Especially if they are villagers.

It looks like it might end up being you or me, JX. Granted, you're a better asset to the villagers if you're on their side. But I don't believe you are.

[Jontom Xire]

Hi, Mustiado.

I'm really sorry if I've upset you. To answer some of your points:

1) My analysis has been quick and very very brief in case I get night killed by the wolves. It does have flaws. It always has flaws. Nevertheless there is some odd stuff happening around you.

2) Dirk Kris' point was not instrumental in lynching Helgraf. The votes were 6-4 in Helgraf's favour at that point.

3) I didn't make any mention of Tormsskull being a wolf or not because firstly I knew damn well we'd never shift enough votes to save Shadow AND me, and secondly I didn't think he was a wolf.


I would hope I've posted enough proof that Murska scried me as a villager. I'm surprised that you doubt which side I'm on.

Shadowcaller, it's still night.

[Shadowcaller]

Shadowcaller, it's still night.

Hm? Well your long discussion confused me, now I have to wait...

[Dirk Kris]

Get on with it![/Monty Python]

[hap_hazard]

*points at sig*

Didn't even realise that was happening. And you guys probably won't believe me, but my pointing had nothing to do with Mustiado. Whatever other reasons you have for lynching him, don't add this.

[Haruki-kun]

This is breaking three post rule...

No, it's not. The Three Post rule doesn't work here.

[Kwarkpudding]

Also Kwarkpudding is alternate day voting. I suspect (s)he's just voting the same as the person above them. In fact every vote has been the same as the person above them. Kwarkpudding, do you have not have your own opinion, are you just short of time, or are you trying to lie low?

Don't worry, I have my own opinion. This is my first Werewolf Game, so I thought it would be better to keep to the background a bit, so I can learn how to play. I realise it might be suspicious that I point at who the person above me points, but it's mostly from lack of ideas, or coincidence. That's what the order of points were on day 3 and 5, nothing more.

Also, I'm sure I haven't voted on the same person as the one above me did. One day 4 I pointed differently from Mustiado and V.Z., who both pointed at Murska.

The key vote switchers on Day 3 from Reinholdt to Helgraf were: Mustiado, Hap_hazard, and Kwarkpudding in that order.

Funnily, at the end of Day 5, three people pointed at Tormsskull: Mustiado, Hap_hazard, and Kwarkpudding. In that order.

Maybe you like lists, but I didn't switch my vote on day 3. I've switched my point only once, to dallas-dakota on day 1.

Finally, if I had to wait on someone else to point at anybody other than who I was going to point at, I would be auto-lynched by now.

[Zar Peter]

END OF NIGHT 5

He was plotting. There must be a way to get in contact with them. He had so many useful informations but he didn’t find the spawn of the evil till now. Not much time left, either, it seems the person he impersonated wasn’t that loved amongst the students. He was just so close to get lynched on day one. And it didn’t seem as he were going to go off of the list of potential evlidoers. Not that he didn’t belong on said list, no, but he would prefer to be more in the background.

He needed some fresh air. Who to scry, that was the question. So many possibilities. The villagers already found two, it wasn’t that difficult at all.

Suddenly he heard a wolf.

“Ahh, they are hunting” he thought. “Who will be the poor chap who get’s eaten today? I hope it isn’t my scry victim… that would be bad luck. A wasted scry…”

Another howl, a little closer this time.

“Oh, it’s someone of the neighbourhood. Ah well, let’s concentrate on my scry victim…”

Suddenly he smelled the breath of a wolf in his neck. And felt a paw on his shoulder.

“What? No! That’s a mistake! I’m the DEV…” a gurgling noise can be heard as his throat is cut through.

The wolves, still happy about finding the Seer are celebrating.

“Hooray! And today we will eat this young guy here. That will be delicious!”

“What did he say? It’s a mistake? Hahaha! How often did we hear this?”

One of the wolves who who had watched the corpse suddenly spoke up

“Ermm… Young guy? And didn’t he say he’s the Dev…?”

“Yes, but why shall I listen to food?”

“Maybe you should have listened… he just transformed… into this:

Spoiler

Show

“Eeeewww... that doesn’t look healthy... what’s this?”

“Hmm… given the transformation and the look… might be the devil.”

“WHAT? WE KILLED THE DEVIL? ****.”

“Well… let’s go home, shall we? I think the celebrations are canceled…”

The next morning the villagers find the dead body lying in the middle of the camp. After a search they find another dead body in Eldritch Knights tent. Now it's clear, the devil is dead

SUMMARY: Eldritch Knight was killed by the wolves, he was the Devil

Day begins and ends in about 48 hours.

[Boo]

Y'know, I did that when I was a wolf back in my first game (which just happened to be the last classic).

You don't want to stick to the background, it will get you lynched.

I'm still sticking to Eldritch Knight. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I'll probably be lynched after him if he turns out to be anything but a wolf.

EDIT: @^ HELLZ YEAH! I WAS RIGHT!

Now since he was the devil, I'll not point at Alarra. Today I'll side with Shadow, and point at Tormsskull.

[Lex-Kat]

I'll point at Tormskull, also.

They killed the devil. I love it when they kill themselves.

[Dirk Kris]

Join, join, join, join the bandwagon!
Tormskull

[happyturtle]

Y'know, I did that when I was a wolf back in my first game (which just happened to be the last classic).

You don't want to stick to the background, it will get you lynched.

I'm still sticking to Eldritch Knight. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I'll probably be lynched after him if he turns out to be anything but a wolf.

EDIT: @^ HELLZ YEAH! I WAS RIGHT!

Now since he was the devil, I'll not point at Alarra. Today I'll side with Shadow, and point at Tormsskull.

I'd already decided to point at EK today. So since you were right about him, I'll follow your lead, Blue.

Tormsskull.

[Shadowcaller]

Wait... did the curse just turn on itself?

Has this ever happend before in a WW-game by the way?

[Tormsskull]

I'd like to point out that back on Post #79 I totally called this. EK was going to be killed very early on, and DD decided he didn't have enough time to play, and self-sacrificed. In turn, that saved EK. At that point I called attention to the fact that I wondered if that was a scheme to save the Devil. While my logic turned out to be wrong (evidenced by the fact that the wolves ate their devil) my instinct was correct in thinking EK was the Devil.

If I do get lynched today, I would also like to point out the fact that Shadow started the idea that I was guilty, as indicated by his earlier post and other people saying "I'm following Shadow in pointing at Tormsskull." All credit should be attributed to him & his grenade launcher or RPG or whatever.


As for my point, I'm going with hap_hazard.

[Murska]

Yay. I got my revenge! The Curse was reversed!

[Boo]

Considering that it was the devil that was killed, no one should be considered any less suspicious.

Now I have other suspects I could point at, but I'll save those for tomorrow.

Dirk Kris (could be keeping low for the sake of not being noticed)
hap_hazard (hectic schedule excuse to not be noticed)
Shadowcaller (acting the cod)
Kwarkpudding (I don't trust pudding )

Although JX's explanations were a bit flawed, they were not misplaced.

[Fostire]

tormsskull

[PhantomFox]

Wow, the Devil's gone by the wolves' own hands. Back luck for them. Can I retroactively credit this to the Luck Of The Vulpine? (Heh, starting to turn into a catchphrase of mine)

Anyhow... regarding the great Mustiado-Jontom debate...

Well, my 'score system 2.0' has Mustiado in the lead with 3.25, but he just doesn't feel like a wolf to me. I highly doubt he'd pull a stunt and 'expose' the seer in public when he could just have told the rest of the pack in private. And now that the Devil's dead, that possible excuse is gone.

As for Jontom, my suspicions are starting to wane. My theory was that if he IS a wolf, he would only kill Murska if they were pretty sure his seerness, as it would horribly incriminate him otherwise. Now that it's clear that the wolves weren't in contact with the Devil, that theory loses credence. Of course they could have figured it out on their own as well, with Mustiado's post (who Reinholdt claimed he was talking to as well). So... I still don't know. Perhaps it's just his aggressiveness that's rubbing me wrong.

As for Tormsskull, I can't seem to locate the arguement against him. Could someone give me a cliff notes version?

In the meantime, I'm going to have to go with my previous suspicion of hap_hazard

[Shishnarfne]

"You know, people were pretty quick to go after Tormsskull this morning... Perhaps one of them might know more... happyturtle, do you have any particular reason to go after him, other than Shadow's brief comments?"

[happyturtle]

"You know, people were pretty quick to go after Tormsskull this morning... Perhaps one of them might know more... happyturtle, do you have any particular reason to go after him, other than Shadow's brief comments?"

I was following Blue, not Shadow. Although Blue may have been following Shadow. I don't know why Blue Umbrella suspects him, but I'm going with the theory that Blue was right about EK, so might be right about Tormsskull as well.

[Fostire]

Now since he was the devil, I'll not point at Alarra. Today I'll side with Shadow, and point at Tormsskull.

Blue is following shadow