Relationship Woes and Advice, Trip to Baator

[Dragonrider]

W00t! Good date. She invited one of our friends, but it was no problem. Kind of good for the self esteem, I guess, that someone was worried about screwing up a date with me

Whoawhoawhoa! Where's that assumption coming from? I mean, it could be true, but if I were to go on a date and bring a friend it would likely be because I didn't want it to be a date...

I don't wanna burst your bubble. But just...yeah.

[Jalor]

I don't think "terrified" is the right word. Most people range from accepting to tolerant when it comes to aquintances and co-workers who are gay. What some people are worried about is that their child may be homosexual, if only for the lesser chance of grandchildren.

I suppose you're right, although that doesn't actually change my advice.

But one question for ya'll: Should I really stay away from Natalie? Am I going to be dragged into that sort of lifestyle, or is it actually possible that I'll help her in our relationship? I've already told her that we can't have sex (my faith and all), and she's agreed to that, so I don't really see a problem with going out with her.

You already answered your question.

I really do like her and have feelings for her, and can see this going somewhere. We had a great date Sunday :D

Whoawhoawhoa! Where's that assumption coming from? I mean, it could be true, but if I were to go on a date and bring a friend it would likely be because I didn't want it to be a date...

Unfortunately true. Inviting a friend usually means she's apprehensive about it.

[Pyrian]

But I feel she won't say anything, as par the course. This worries me, as I don't know how to continue making sure everything is fine if she can't communicate when/if something's wrong. This is probably due in part because it's hard for me to effectively show my emotions since I grew up turning everything in on myself.

I've got two ideas of what could be going on. Paranoid me says she's losing interest, and the rest of me is trying to convince myself that she's just taking me being there for granted. I guess I'll find out tonight.

Hi Jack. I guess by the time you get this message you'll probably already know more. I hate to say it, but I've seen a lot of breakups preceded by that sort of distancing behavior. My first girlfriend told me afterwards that she was really hoping that if she treated me badly enough I'd dump her and spare her the trouble of dumping me.

Anyway, assuming this is still an issue, I would approach it from the opposite angle. Tell her that being treated dismissively is unacceptable to you. (It should be, from an SO, anyway.)

[xPANCAKEx]

silence

the danger is she'd become dependant on you... and thats never a healthy relationship. You shouldn't get with someone in the hopes of "fixing" them (or vice versa) - you should be with them because they make you happy

Partof1

gunna have to echo deeree here - someone bringing a chaperone is never exactly condusive to romance. Ask her on a second date, and this time make it explicite that its a date, and you'll soon find where you stand

Jack Squat

what pyrian said +1

From what you've said, it does sound like a lack of interest on her part im afraid. It might be that she is "just" taking you for granted, but that needs to be discussed. If shes not making enough time to care for you (or your emotional needs - people need to make time for their partners), it think its in your own best interests to call things. It will allow you time and space to focus on taking care of yourself, and maybe give her the kick up the backside to make more time for you and get herself sorted out

[Jack Squat]

Hi Jack. I guess by the time you get this message you'll probably already know more. I hate to say it, but I've seen a lot of breakups preceded by that sort of distancing behavior. My first girlfriend told me afterwards that she was really hoping that if she treated me badly enough I'd dump her and spare her the trouble of dumping me.

Anyway, assuming this is still an issue, I would approach it from the opposite angle. Tell her that being treated dismissively is unacceptable to you. (It should be, from an SO, anyway.)

It's not too late. I'm heading out in about 20-30 minutes.

I was basically going to go that route anyways, but thanks for reaffirming what I was going after. I mean, I know she's busy, so that's what I was chalking up the not-talking to. Engineering degrees are tough.

I hate it when my paranoia is right.

[Belkarsbadside1]

All right, you might have seen my previous posts but heres my problem. I asked the girl I liked out A couple weeks ago, but every time we scheduled a datee. Something came up and prevented her from coming. This is the third time this happened. Now My other problem is that while I have been waiting to get a date with her, someone else has caught my eye and I might want to start dating her instead of the other girl. Should I just Cancel my current plans with my original girl and ask teh second girl out? or should I just continue on my planned date with the original and hope for the best and see if I might actually like her more.

[Dragonrider]

All right, you might have seen my previous posts but heres my problem. I asked the girl I liked out A couple weeks ago, but every time we scheduled a datee. Something came up and prevented her from coming. This is the third time this happened. Now My other problem is that while I have been waiting to get a date with her, someone else has caught my eye and I might want to start dating her instead of the other girl. Should I just Cancel my current plans with my original girl and ask teh second girl out?

I'd go for this. It sounds like the first girl may not be that interested.

[Pyrian]

Dude, you're not in a committed relationship just because you asked someone out and they keep putting it off. Date them both if they give you the chance. After three put-offs, though, I wouldn't expect too much from first girl...

[xPANCAKEx]

+1 what deeree and pyrian said

and re: the first girl - i wouldn't make any further effort. If she wants a date with you, she'll have to come do the asking and tell you when shes free. If shes cancelled three times and not tried to reschedual with you, i wouldn't spend any further time on it. She may not be interested, or she may just be too busy for dating, so you shouldn't let her problems hold you back

[Belkarsbadside1]

All right thanks. I know for a fact that shes trying hard to see me, but true coincidences sprung up to stop the dates. First two were family emergencies, and the third was a job emergency. Bothe were verified by an unbiased third party. Anyways. I think I will give her one last shot and if that fails, I will move on.

[xPANCAKEx]

All right thanks. I know for a fact that shes trying hard to see me, but true coincidences sprung up to stop the dates. First two were family emergencies, and the third was a job emergency. Bothe were verified by an unbiased third party. Anyways. I think I will give her one last shot and if that fails, I will move on.

let her be the one to set it up - if she really its "trying hard" to see you, then you won't have to wait too long

until then, see how things go with the other girl

[Dracomorph]

@Syka, Dracomorph, Jalor, and xPANCAKEx: Ok, thanks. Yeah, I tried to be as upfront as possible with telling Kortney the truth... Also, Michelle's LIFE was in danger, and now that I really think about it, it would be a sin not to tell anyone. Ugh...

But one question for ya'll: Should I really stay away from Natalie? Am I going to be dragged into that sort of lifestyle, or is it actually possible that I'll help her in our relationship? I've already told her that we can't have sex (my faith and all), and she's agreed to that, so I don't really see a problem with going out with her.

I really do like her and have feelings for her, and can see this going somewhere. We had a great date Sunday :D

Well, the way I'd put it is that it's generally a bad idea. Your specific situation could be an exception, and you know her better than we do.

It's not just that she could drag you into her lifestyle, btw. As Pancake said, she could become dependent on you, and that's undesirable all around, really. Still, you know better than we do how likely that is, and I think the important thing is that you know to consider it as a possibility.

[Syka]

Silence, I didn't mention her lifestyle. That's not a problem. The problem is her saying she NEEDS a relationship. Sex is fine and lovely, drugs not so much, but that's not the biggest issue. It's her (evidently) dependancy thing.

That's a red flag being torn to bits by a hurricane. Just sayin'.

[Jalor]

every time we scheduled a datee. Something came up and prevented her from coming. This is the third time this happened.

I'll excuse one unexpected accident, two if I trust her. Just how unbiased is the "unbiased third party"?

@Silence: Oh, right, you were the one with the emotionally dependent girl. Still your call, but I would be careful if I were you. I've successfully avoided needy girls so far, but I have friends who receive hysterical phone calls occasionally from girls they haven't seen since middle school .

[Cobra_Ikari]

glad to hear your friends done the right thing about that guy. As long as you can remain civil you'll be fine

as for the girl - weeeeell that seems a lot more complicated. From what you've said i'd go into the situation assuming that she likes you, but is just a bit nervous is all. Prepare for the worst, but go in there with positive body language expecting the best. After all - if she didn't like you, she would have just left it at "i dont think of you like that" - it may be a case of shes never considered you like that CONSCIOUSLY before... but i suppose you'll only find out for sure when you talk to her

An update/clarification, of sorts, and a request for more advice, I suppose.

With the girl, what she actually said was closer to "I don't think I could ever think of you as more than a friend", and when I said ok, and asked her what about me made her feel that way, she said she regretted saying that, that she didn't mean it that way, and that we should talk about it in person. So I really don't know that it's going to end positively. *shrugs*

My friend, I never doubted to do the right thing, even if I had no clue what the right thing was. He's been one of my closest friends for 9 years, and has always been the peacemaker of our group. But I know he'll also try to help the other guy with his stuff, too. *shrugs*

As for the other guy...he contacted me today, assured me that he was just upset because of a communication problem between him and the girl (which she said was about him being afraid of her getting closer to me, and him trying to regulate who she was friends with). I decided I'd try to explain why I felt that he had a problem with me, mentioning how we never really do anything together, and he only seems to come because the girl does, and he always flips out when he comes because people other than him are spending time with her, and how he acts this possessive of the other girls we know, and how people had told me he had specifically said he hated me being around the girl. And he responded by claiming that if he didn't like me, I wouldn't be able to come over, because even though my best friend is his apartmentmate, he has say over who can come. And then he said I'm cool to hang out with one on one (which I already mentioned, never happens), but that I turn into a **** when any girls are around. And then he claims to just be acting as a protective older brother of both girls we know, and that I need to stop hanging all over them, although hugs are ok (the only thing that could POSSIBLY be considered the former was my arm around the girl I asked out, last weekend. I've also discussed this with both girls, and they claim to have no problem with me being physically affectionate, and said they would definitely tell me if I ever went too far. He claims they're both too shy to tell me, but complain to him about it). And that's about all we got through before he asked to talk about it with me in person.

So, basically, he took everything he does that seems weird to me, accused me of doing it even though I don't, ignored that I've talked with most of the people involved and gotten several witnesses to point out that he does do these things and I don't do the things he claims, and then told me we should speak about it in person. What should I do about this?

[Dracomorph]

So, basically, he took everything he does that seems weird to me, accused me of doing it even though I don't, ignored that I've talked with most of the people involved and gotten several witnesses to point out that he does do these things and I don't do the things he claims, and then told me we should speak about it in person. What should I do about this?

It sounds to me like you're going to be having a talk with him that I've had with several people in my life - the "I don't hate you, but I don't especially like you either" talk, or something like it. It's always awkward, and doesn't always end well. I have ended up making some friends with it, which strikes me as extremely weird.

So, don't be nervous, be honest, but also be charitable. When you explain why you don't like certain actions of his, also say that you suspect he doesn't mean them that way, even if you don't. Also, unless there's no way it could be true, BELIEVE WHAT HE TELLS YOU. This is key. At best, it'll clear the air, and you'll turn an awkward acquaintance into a new good friend. At worst, he'll hate you forever and you'll feel the same about him, which doesn't sound like much of a change anyway.

[Syka]

*walks across the stage muttering about the effect of stress on PMS and it's subsequent effect on one's personal relationships, exits stage left*

I also get the joy of trying to figure out how to tell a group member that she needs to shape up or we're 'firing' her (which is allowed by the professor if a member isn't holding their weight).

[Jack Squat]

OK, update. Basically, paranoid self loses. I love it when I'm wrong

She's really busy with schoolwork, and doesn't like to be online when doing work, 'cause it really limits how much she can pay attention (I did notice this, but I guess didn't really care too much). When she's free, her room mates normally grab her for something. She did mention coming up here awhile back, though it was really more of a "I'm not going to a game this weekend and it's fall break", so it slipped my mind and she probably forgot my memory sucks. Her main reason for coming up was to go bridal shopping with for her sister's wedding (which I still don't think a date is set, but meh. There's a reason guys don't plan those things).

She wasn't feeling too good, so I didn't get too much farther into it, but reminded her that I'm always available to talk should an issue arise.

[Pyrian]

So, basically, he took everything he does that seems weird to me, accused me of doing it even though I don't, ignored that I've talked with most of the people involved and gotten several witnesses to point out that he does do these things and I don't do the things he claims, and then told me we should speak about it in person. What should I do about this?

Well, you can have that second conversation, but don't get too drawn into the idea that you can talk some sense into him. Sometimes, in my experience, people are just determined to be unreasonable. I have found that it is best to treat such people firmly yet dismissively - to put it bluntly, he's doing the RL equivalent of trolling. People will rationalize anything, and use blatantly self-contradictory "logic" to do so. The only really appropriate response is to rise above and ignore it. He's probably just wasting your time.

[skywalker]

With the girl, what she actually said was closer to "I don't think I could ever think of you as more than a friend", and when I said ok, and asked her what about me made her feel that way, she said she regretted saying that, that she didn't mean it that way, and that we should talk about it in person. So I really don't know that it's going to end positively. *shrugs*

They will tell you to fear the "friend bin." They will tell you there is no escape. I am here to say that I have only ever been told this by girls who subsequently made very strong moves on me very soon after saying this to me (including one within an hour of saying it).

And he responded by claiming that if he didn't like me, I wouldn't be able to come over, because even though my best friend is his apartmentmate, he has say over who can come.

Translation: "I think I have far more control over my roommates' guests than I really do.

And then he said I'm cool to hang out with one on one (which I already mentioned, never happens), but that I turn into a **** when any girls are around.

Translation: "I am really jealous of your ease with women."
Possible alternate explanation: You are off-putting to other guys when you're around women. I have a guy friend who is really fun with just the guys, but who shamelessly flirts with any female in the vicinity, including his best friends' girlfriends. He will flirt (harmlessly, just for fun) with a girl and completely ruin another friend's chances for the night without even realizing it. Some of us are like this. Does it make you something that is worth *-ing out? No, I don't think so. But there could be some truth (in a round about way) to this one.

And then he claims to just be acting as a protective older brother of both girls we know, and that I need to stop hanging all over them, although hugs are ok (the only thing that could POSSIBLY be considered the former was my arm around the girl I asked out, last weekend.

Translation: "I don't like that you can just put your arm around a girl when I can't."

I've also discussed this with both girls, and they claim to have no problem with me being physically affectionate, and said they would definitely tell me if I ever went too far. He claims they're both too shy to tell me, but complain to him about it).

Translation: He is asking them "Doesn't it bother you when Cobra does x?" And they are replying in the quasi-affirmative to keep him from being upset/put off.

OK, update. Basically, paranoid self loses. I love it when I'm wrong

She's really busy with schoolwork, and doesn't like to be online when doing work, 'cause it really limits how much she can pay attention (I did notice this, but I guess didn't really care too much). When she's free, her room mates normally grab her for something. She did mention coming up here awhile back, though it was really more of a "I'm not going to a game this weekend and it's fall break", so it slipped my mind and she probably forgot my memory sucks. Her main reason for coming up was to go bridal shopping with for her sister's wedding (which I still don't think a date is set, but meh. There's a reason guys don't plan those things).

She wasn't feeling too good, so I didn't get too much farther into it, but reminded her that I'm always available to talk should an issue arise.

That, er, still doesn't seem too positive. Maybe I'm confused, but is it true that she didn't even mention that she was here? No "Hey Jack, I'm home for the weekend, we should hang out?" If my girlfriend shows up in the city I (and she used to) live in, and doesn't take initiative to contact me... I would be worried. Sorry if that makes you feel bad again.

[Jack Squat]

That, er, still doesn't seem too positive. Maybe I'm confused, but is it true that she didn't even mention that she was here? No "Hey Jack, I'm home for the weekend, we should hang out?" If my girlfriend shows up in the city I (and she used to) live in, and doesn't take initiative to contact me... I would be worried. Sorry if that makes you feel bad again.

She mentioned she was here (true, through a facebook status and not calling me...but I was in a test at the time). I pretty much took up the whole "When can we hang" thing fairly quickly. It's completely in character for her to let me take the initiative, so I'm not too worried.

She was still working on Diff EQ and physics when I headed over as well...and one of her reasons for not actively trying to see me was that she didn't know if she'd have enough time because of the workload. Being a former engineering major, I can believe it. Add in the bridesmaid stuff, her grandparents coming over, and a not-entirely-great work ethic, and this thing tends to at least become much less of a deal in my mind.

I didn't say more didn't need to be talked about, but I was expecting the worst, and that didn't turn out to be the case. I'll take my small victories. Now, if this becomes a trend, I'll start worrying again.

[Coidzor]

No, it's not necessarily inescapable, but being labeled romantically incompatible is a bit difficult to shrug off. It's not the end of the world, but it is one of those things which is probably mostly designed to cause one to stop, give pause, and reexamine things. And possibly disregard it entirely in the name of love and passion and art.

In other news, I was talking to one of the girls from chorus yesterday and we made each other late to our next classes by getting to talking about dancing and she gave me the address of where she was learning West Coast Swing as part of a weekly thing monday nights.

Though, admittedly, I was mostly late because I misremembered my class time as starting at 2:30 rather than 2:00.

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I never thought I'd find that color women put on their eyelids attractive until last night. haha. I wonder what that's called. Wasn't really eyeliner since it was more of a full eyelid thing. Don't think it was mascara due to the coloration and it seeming to be mostly above her eye... Eyeshadow? Hmm. Makeup is convoluted.

So, anyway, I think she might be interested in me, especially because I'm pretty sure I caught her stealing glances at me... And I'm not sure, but we may have made eyes at one another when I looked over at her lookign at me and we both smiled. It was not something I'm used to so I'm not exactly sure what that was. But it felt nice! <_< So I'm-a thinkin' I'll take that as a good sign.

I had to leave early because I hadn't yet figured out what buses might be running in that area, but I did say goodbye to her in such a way that I figure I could segue it into asking her out to coffee or dinner.

[Dragonrider]

1. Mascara: applied by round brush to the eyelashes
2. Eyeliner: thin line on the edge of the eyelid/under eyelashes
3. Eyeshadow: stuff you're talking about, on the eyelid generally.

[Vella_Malachite]

Hey guys - haven't been here in a while, but I needs some help.

This is pretty much going to be another "how do I approach" question, but just hear me out.

The guy in question: I met him at Physics camp (awesome camp, btw), and we didn't talk to anyone else for four days straight. After that, we had two weeks of holidays, so we caught up twice. Once, we went to the city and to my place, but that was kind of a flop (it's sorted out now, I apologised, he told me not to worry, nothing changed), and once we went to the Melbourne Show (big festival thing) with some of his friends, then back to his place where I slept over, again, his friends were there, after playing video games until 3am, and I left at 8:00 the next night.

So we're already on pretty good terms, and asking to "do something sometime" is not the problem. The problem is that we're both too shy to say that we want to take it to the next level. Given some of the signals I've been getting (putting his head on my shoulder, insisting on buying things for me, there's more if you want them), I'm pretty sure he's interested, but I just can't spit it out.

Are there any helpful tips on the best way to raise the topic? Seriously, I'm killing myself over this guy! One of us has to say something eventually, and it might just have to be me, but I have absolutely no idea how to do so.

Thanks in advance...

[Zeb The Troll]

I have had this tactic work on me in the past (before I was as suave and debonair as I am now )

Me:
Her:
Me:
Her: Kiss me, you idiot!

[Silence]

Hey guys...

My advice: Call him up (that is, if you usually talk over phone) or wait until you're talking just together, and talk for a while, and just bring it up. Try not to be awkward about it, as that just makes things weird. I know this is the totally obvious solution to the problem, but it worked for me. Good luck. And remember, us guys are actually a lot less complicated than you girls make us out to be.

[Dallas-Dakota]

As soon as I get alone with her, I'm going to try and ask her out.

It'l probably be something like this.

Me: Hey, I'm wanting to try something with this confidence thing.
Her: ?
Me: Yeah, would you like to go out with me to (insert event here)
Her: (probably) No. I don't like you in that kind of way.
Me: Oh, ok. Friends then?
Her: (hopefully) Hmm, ok.


Wish me luck!

The event which I'm planning on asking her out to is at the 17th(saturday) so plenty of time. to chicken out >.>

Describement of event:
Like a general fair.(fantasy/medieval, though a tad more literature focused, me thinks)
then medieval(?) dinner. I can probably get some crepes/pancakes or french fries.
Movie marathon: Cool, it's LotR, so it's not that bad if we talk softly, but no awkward silence if we're awkwardly silent.

Otherwise, I'l just be going with a couple of friends...>.>


Yeah, wish me luck! And advice, damn, advice would be good!

Paying for stuff: ???
Full ticket(full day ticket) is 25 euros....and I'm not rich. >.>
So pay for food? And that would be if she said yes.

Then again, my mind is doubting this. Constantly recasting thoughts and signals. Maybe all she's sending out are friend signals...Yeah, I'm probably over-reading her signals. Stupid mind. *headdesk* need to stop over-thinking stuff.

Hopefully I'l be able to salvage a frienship.

Advice is very welcome! Wish me luck, also.

[Ditto]

Vella, you're who my girlfriend was a year ago when we were both nuts about each other and too stupid to say anything about it. It took a traumatic episode for us to finally get it out in the open, which is the less-desirable way of going about things. You've got to step up, and you know it!

Just print out this note and pass it to him if you're no good with words. Pass it right on over to him, no preamble necessary. Don't worry, it'll work out great. >_>

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Dear Dude,
I wanna be your girl. Dig?
Yours,
Vella

No peeking! Surprise notes work better!

[Silence]

@DD: That's great! I really hope for the best!

My advice is not to try the sarcastic approach. Just act casual, and be very confident. And if she just wants to be friends, that's fine too. I have a very good friend that I've asked out, and it didn't hurt our friendship at all.

[loopy]

I have had this tactic work on me in the past (before I was as suave and debonair as I am now )

Me:
Her:
Me:
Her: Kiss me, you idiot!

Smooth mate. :D

Much respect.