Warhammer 40k III - Hats for the Hat Throne

[Dark Faun]

I thought about it, but I eventually chose multi-meltas to make my Salamanders "fluffy".

[Lorn]

Do keep in mind heavy weapons can't fire from a Rhino after it moved though.

Ah. Third or fourth turn, then... alright, probably not worth it unless you're fighting against Chaos/other Marines/Necrons/Mech Guard, and lascannons will usually be better there.

[Arcanoi]

So, I was browsing the Apocalypse articles on the GW site earlier. Came across rules for Angron.

Link.

So. 500 points Greater Daemon with a retinue (as a squad, I believe) of Bloodthirsters.

Not nice to fight in close combat.

So, I turned my thoughts to how to do this.

Throwing conscripts works. Grab the IG hero who lets you spam conscripts, Lord Commissar nearby, and Angron is weighed down by 300 models. All the time.

(Bonus points if they're modelled as Spartans.)

Termagants/Synapse Creature would also work.

But that's dull and just means he's stuck. Unlikely to die too fast.

So, Daemonhunting time. And doing this, I may have realised the most monstrously game-breaking anti-daemon tactic imagineable.

In Apocalypse, there are no limits, IIRC. Just grab what you want.

I want to take a load of Inquisitors and Inquisitor Lords, each equipped to stay alive and with the psyker power Sanctuary.

Basically, the power pushes all daemons to outside 3" of the casting model. No save. At all.

This can be used in your shooting (may be movement, unsure) phase, when you are in assault. Technically, it could push something off the board - but that takes FAR too long. Or you could just throw things out of assault in your shooting (or movement) phase then assault them again in your assault phase.

So, your opponent has this 1000+ point unit of Angron and many Bloodthirsters. Going to hurt when it reaches your lines.

In comes a cordon of Inquisitors.

Carefully place them so that they shut at least one model out, and cast Sanctuary with all of them. Have them placed all around this model.

Suddenly, they can't get back into squad coherency. In fact, one of the Bloodthirsters may not be able to move - hell, it may not even be able to be placed there anymore if you run it tightly enough.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but you've just caused a 1000+ point Fearless unit led by the World Eaters Primarch to automatically break because it cannot regroup. It will then fall back.

And it's between several units, if you've thought this through.

Unit autodies due to the Crossfire rules.

Nothing else, it's just dead.

And it would work against any other unit of daemons - just prevent it from getting back in squad coherency, and if I'm right, it just dies due to crossfire.

Similar tactics can be used, in theory, to actually push enemy units (daemons only) off the board. Or keep them pinned down and unable to move. Or even cordon off your entire force when fighting a purely Daemons army so they can't assault you.

I'll say now, I'm running off memory - still no idea where the 'Hunters codex is. I may be horribly wrong about how this works.

Someone, please, tell me how I'm wrong :p This seems far too good to be true.

The first tactic simply doesn't work. You'll lose because each of those units counts as VP, and they're going to be routing after a single round almost always because, at the minimum, that unit is going to be making... 8 WS 10 instant death and 14 WS 10 S 10 attacks on the charge, not to mention Angron's LD reduction.

The second tactic will only work if you pull it off the turn you try it. If you fail, you're going to lose at least half of those 1000+ points you spent on those inquisitors in a single turn, and you won't be able to pull it again. It would however, definitely be worth it if you COULD pull it off, because at the respectable minimum the Angron unit is 1100 points. But if your gambit fails, you're going to lose. And lose horribly.

It's a clever idea, but it's all-or-nothing at best and stupidly risky at worst.

[tribble]

The second tactic will only work if you pull it off the turn you try it. If you fail, you're going to lose at least half of those 1000+ points you spent on those inquisitors in a single turn, and you won't be able to pull it again.

he loses them from psychic powers like bolt of change, right? or does khorne have something that shoots in apocalypse?

[Zorg]

he loses them from psychic powers like bolt of change, right? or does khorne have something that shoots in apocalypse?

Brass Scorpion? Greater Brass Scorpion? Cannon of Khorne? Tower of Skulls? Cauldron of Blood? Doom Blaster? Lord of Battles? Banelord? The bajillion World Eaters acompanying their Primarch?

Plantly of options to take them out

[Arcanoi]

Yeah, Khorne has a lot more fluffy Dakka in Apocalypse than it does in regular 40k.

[Erloas]

Anyway, barely even reading the list, the GW Blackshirt tells the guy to re-write the list. Which you don't even have to do. But, the guy was refused entry to the tournament because his (SM) list contained 50 Scouts with Sniper Rifles. I'm assuming he had other things, but, what? I never heard.

I've always believed that Scouts are way better than Tactical Marines, but, still, saying "You can't play at all unless you re-write your list." seems a little bit harsh. Especially when you're graded on your list in the first place.

Eh, my general rule for cheesiness is simply how much variation someone has in their list. This works for all games too. If someone has 15 of one unit and one configuration and then some other units simply to meet minimum requirements then they are probably trying to break the system.

As for letting someone in a tournament with a cheesy list, I could see why they might not let them, even with a comp score system in place. Any tournament at the local store level is there for people to have fun, maybe give a bit more structure to some games, and keep people from cherry picking their list for each opponent. With having fun usually being the most important focus for a local store. If someone comes in with a cheesy list that isn't going to be fun to play against (even if it isn't incredibly powerful, those one dimensional lists generally aren't any fun) then even if that person does not win they are still doing a lot to take the enjoyment out of it for other people.

Now if it were a regional tournament with a comp score then I would say let them play, especially if you can't guarantee that every other store taking part in the tournament would also disallow such lists.

[Cheesegear]

Chuck the Multimeltas into the Rhino, which powers/smokescreens forwards. Soon as it's close, two multimeltas start vaping tanks. Basically, in about two turns time...

Like it's been mentioned, it'll be a while before the Devs can even fire.

Likely not the best tactic, but better than anything else I can immediately think of involving multimelta Devastators...

Nope. Definitely not the best tactic. Most times you'd be doing that (Multi Meltas in a Rhino), you'd end up being counter-productive. I think I'll leave the Multi-Meltas at home.

So, 4 Missile Launchers, 2 Plasma Cannons, 2 Lascannons and a Heavy Bolter to round things off. I think my Devastator selection is good enough. Rogal Dorn would be proud.

[Arcanoi]

Rogal Dorn would be ashamed. Your lack of fervor disturbs him.

[Cheesegear]

Rogal Dorn would be ashamed. Your lack of fervor disturbs him.

Ah, but my intellect pleases him. Devastators are long-range support. Giving them Multi Meltas and putting them in a Rhino would be a worse (and more expensive - points and currency) option than 'two Lascannons on a hill'.

2 Lascannons, 70 points. Free (in $) because I already have them.

2 Multi Meltas and a Rhino, 75 points. More because I'd definitely buy Extra Armour. So, at least 90 Points. The MMs I already have. But, I'd need to buy a new Rhino. And then I'd be forced buy Extra Armour and Imperial Fists doors from ForgeWorld for said Rhino (because I do that). Might cost me a pretty penny in the end.

Or, 4 Missile Launchers, 60 Points. Cheap-as-Free.

2 Multi Meltas in a Rhino seems foolish in comparison.

I'll be putting Multi Meltas on my Attack Bikes and Land Speeders. That way they can get close and still shoot.

And all my Marines will wear helmets (except Lysander which I can't really do anything about). Imperial Fists are smart.
...Except for that one time against Iron Warriors. But, we don't talk about that much...

[Lycan 01]

I have two fun new ideas.


Would it be legal for a Chaos player to purchase some Imperial Guardsmen, paint them Chaotic colors and add small details like tattoos and chaos emblems, and then fielding them along with their Chaos Marines as some sort of Cultist unit?

I figure they can use the same stats as regular Imperial Guardsmen, and serve as a nice distraction and/or cheap cannon fodder.


My other ideas is using Green Stuff to upgrade some of my Orks. I saw some Orks in Mega Armor at my local hobby store, but they were 16 bucks each. Yeowch... But then I came up with an idea. Then I realized 5 Nobs were 25 bucks, and green stuff was 9. Hmmm...

So I'm now pondering going crazy with green stuff. But before I try to start sculpting like an Orky Michaelangelo, I figure I should ask it its even possible first. How difficult is it to work with green stuff? Does it hold its shape and harden up easily? Or will I be fighting with it for hours in order to add even a single piece of Cybork armor on one of my Nobs?


I figure if it works, that'll add some tough as nails Nobs to my armor, as well as plenty of Dakka!


(Fun fact: I accidentally posted this whole thing in the OotS crack-pairing thread. I checked this thread a minute later, and was like, "What the? Where's my post?" Then in horror, I exclaimed: "What did I just post in?!" Whoops...)

[Cheesegear]

Would it be legal for a Chaos player to purchase some Imperial Guardsmen, paint them Chaotic colors and add small details like tattoos and chaos emblems, and then fielding them along with their Chaos Marines as some sort of Cultist unit?

Do cultists exist in Chaos Space Marines? If not, no.
(Alpha Legion is 'regular chaos' now. )

There is a list in Codex: Eye of Terror that lets you do exactly that. But, if I'm not mistaken, that book is illegal now. And there was the old rules for Alpha Legion...Also illegal.

[Erloas]

So I'm now pondering going crazy with green stuff. But before I try to start sculpting like an Orky Michaelangelo, I figure I should ask it its even possible first. How difficult is it to work with green stuff? Does it hold its shape and harden up easily? Or will I be fighting with it for hours in order to add even a single piece of Cybork armor on one of my Nobs?


I figure if it works, that'll add some tough as nails Nobs to my armor, as well as plenty of Dakka!

Looking at the Mega Armour and nobs they don't really have a lot in common. An Orky head and thats about it, the mega armour looks more like a mech then anything else.

At the point you get a nob looking like that there isn't much of the original model even left.

A kind of compromise between how the nob looks and a more armoured one but not the complete mech look of the megaarmour models you could look at getting Black Orcs and beefing them up a bit more. They have a lot more armour then the nobs, but of course still no where near what the megaarmour has. You could probably just use the black orcs if you had plenty of weapon bits left over from your normal boyz boxes. They would also be sufficiently different from your normal boyz and other nobs to stand out as something different.

Green stuff is pretty easy in small amounts. In larger amounts things get a bit more tricky because its hard to work detail into it without kind of smashing what you've already done. If you wanted much for detail you would probably have to do each model in many different parts, doing maybe 1/4 of each model in a sitting.
Green stuff can be mixed with more blue or yellow, and it changes how fast it dries and a bit of how hard it is to work with. I'm not that good with it yet to say much about it though.
Generally when you first mix it then its a bit soft to do much with (and when it is warm), you can get a general shape, but not a lot else. If you want sharp edges and finer details you have to let it dry a while after getting the basic shape before refining it.

If you don't have any experience with green stuff then the project you are talking about is probably much too complicated to start with. Small modifications, an armour plate here, an extra weapon there, patching up a repositioned and hacked up arm, etc. is where you have to start.

[Lorn]

I have two fun new ideas.


Would it be legal for a Chaos player to purchase some Imperial Guardsmen, paint them Chaotic colors and add small details like tattoos and chaos emblems, and then fielding them along with their Chaos Marines as some sort of Cultist unit?

I figure they can use the same stats as regular Imperial Guardsmen, and serve as a nice distraction and/or cheap cannon fodder.

Normal game rules, absolutely not.

With opponent permission, anything can be done. Would personally say that borrowing bits from some of the old IG rules (ie, heavy weapon platoon composition with new HW prices) in some places may serve you well. Maybe use Veterans as opposed to standard Guardsmen, though.

Apocalypse, go for it. I'm in the (long, no job :() process of starting a Traitor Guard army, and will likely end up with some CSM as support at some point. My plan is to make them truescale, which while expensive will look absolutely amazing, hopefully.

My other ideas is using Green Stuff to upgrade some of my Orks. I saw some Orks in Mega Armor at my local hobby store, but they were 16 bucks each. Yeowch... But then I came up with an idea. Then I realized 5 Nobs were 25 bucks, and green stuff was 9. Hmmm...)

Not got a huge amount of experience here, I warn you. But:

Don't just use greenstuff for Orky armour. Plasticard may work better, with smaller bits of greenstuff for strapping etc, bits from sprues as rivets and so on. Cut it irregularly, and basically chuck it on wherever, using the basic body as a base; add armour to individual bits, and then glue them together.

Don't worry about making them look too similar or tanky. They're Orks. Individuality in bigger units is key.

If someone else offers better advice, take it. I'm running on caffeine and lack of sleep at the moment, and Orks aren't an army I have much (any) experience working with. But I'd have said plasticard would be easier than GS for the most part.

[Lycan 01]

What's plasticard, and where do I get it? I've heard ya'll mention it a lot, but I don't think I've seen it myself...


Hm... Darn. I figured customizing the Nobs would be cheaper and funner, albiet more difficult and time consuming, than getting a couple of the Mega-Armored Nobs. But if ya'll think its a lost cause, I gets I'd better not bite off more than I can chew...



Yeah, I figured the Traitor Guard wouldn't work, but it was a fun idea. Of course, my gaming group would probably be okay with it...

I've just seen so many customized, home-made, and outside-the-box units and armies, that its kinda hard to tell what is and isn't allowed in most games...

[KilltheToy]

[QUOTE=Lycan 01;7210298]I have two fun new ideas.


Would it be legal for a Chaos player to purchase some Imperial Guardsmen, paint them Chaotic colors and add small details like tattoos and chaos emblems, and then fielding them along with their Chaos Marines as some sort of Cultist unit?

I figure they can use the same stats as regular Imperial Guardsmen, and serve as a nice distraction and/or cheap cannon fodder. [\QUOTE]

Strictly speaking, no. Unless you're playing a friendly game of course.

However, you could model some cultists and then use them as summoned lesser daemons. I'd be totally okay with that.

[Cheesegear]

I've just seen so many customized, home-made, and outside-the-box units and armies, that its kinda hard to tell what is and isn't allowed in most games...

The thing is; What the models look like doesn't make a difference when it comes to the rules*. What is, and what isn't allowed is made pretty clear in the Codex.
'Non-Standard' armies still have to abide by the rules.

I have a unit of Space Marine Scouts riding (Warhammer Fantasy) Cold Ones. They're still Scout Bikes.

Like KilltheToy said, you can have Guardsmen models in your army. So long as you explain that they aren't Guardsmen, and that they're something that you're actually allowed to have.
Essentially, you get to make glorified proxy models.

*Not counting proxy models

[Arcanoi]

You also could play a traitor Guard regiment using the IG codex and make it look Chaos-y, you just won't be able to take any marines.

[DranWork]

Lycan, the whole reasion I gave up on my chaos army was because of the rules change. I have a 2k (give or take) Alpha Legion army thats just sitting around collecting dust cause most of that army is now un-usable. Biggest mistake that GW ever made to the game was dumbing down the choices a player had to make his army unique. I chose Alpha Legion because of the fluff and the rules (both good and bad). Cultists, Infiltrating marines, cloak and dagger.

Simular thing happen with my mates Word Bearer army, special rules ment that they could field a huge amount of propper demons. Now they get crappy substitutes.

Needless to say my Black templar army is getting filled out now and His imp guard army is getting some love. Tho we are happy to alow custom rules we mainly play this for tornies and the like so theres no point getting a great strat going with an army that you couldnt use *shrug*

[banjo1985]

It is true, it's a shame that the new codex's are taking away a lot of the flavour unit options and giving simpler generic choices. Having all demons in the chaos codex offer the same stats and abilities is like trading in neopolitan ice cream for a big tub of vanilla; it's nice, but you wish you had the option of chocolate.

With my Chaos horde now essentially complete, I'm looking into a second race to start on, and I'm seriously considering Eldar. I want something that differs significantly from the playstyle needed for Chaos, and the more fragile but quick Eldar seem like a decent choice. It's also a race no-one else in my gaming group has, so they'd make a nice change. I've read the last couple of pages with the discussion on Eldar, but is there anything else I should keep in mind when starting the army from scratch?

[Cheesegear]

O...M...G...There are quite a few things you guys forgot to mention in regards to the new Space Wolves Codex...

First, Counter-Attack and Acute Senses for all...No reason why Imperial Fists can't attack back, and Imperial Fists can't sleep...Well, they can. But, not really.

1. Logan Grimnar is awesome. Stubborn and has Eternal Warrior (check Lysander). He can change his tactics 'on the fly' (like any decent tactician should be able to do), and has a sweet axe that is easily transferred into a Hammer.
A little bit of filing, some green stuff and half a Storm Bolter, and 'Lysander' will have a Storm Bolter too.
I also mentioned this morning in GW as I was painting Lysander that I kind of like him better without his shield in the first place (the shield comes unattached, and I've left it off for now, for easier painting).

...And you guys said Arjac Rockfist would make a good Lysander...Liars.
Second, he counts Wolf Guard as Troops. Which, brings us to Wolf Guard.

2. Wolf Guard, can come in more than squads of five - all the way up to ten. Still, 5 Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour comes out at 165 Points. Which is way cheaper than 200 and 215 from Space Marines and Dark Angels (respectively). And have the same options anyway. And can mix and match their squads...In squads of ten.

...So I lose the ability to Teleport for being Space Wolves having a crap Primarch. Still, Drop Pod costs 35 points, bringing the total back to 200 anyway, which I was willing to pay for (more because I was taking Dark Angels) in old lists anyway. And Drop Pods are better than Teleporting since you can't insta-gib (and Imperial Fists are meant to be smart).

...I also lose Fearless that Dark Angels Terminators get, and that vanilla marines don't have anyway. Still, Logan and multiple Chaplains (because I can) can fix most of that.

3. Wolf Scouts and Long Fangs Devastators are almost the epitome of Tactics.

4. Imperial Fists are strongly known for having an almost epidemic-like proportion of Marines who suffer from depression. Which can only be solved by doing their duty of taking out the biggest threat they can. And, it makes no difference whether or not they live afterwards. Duty first. Enter Lone Wolves Fists.

5. I have a hard time justifying Rune Priests Librarians though. Their Chooser of the Slain pretty much functions as a sensor (or jammer) beacon which is cool.

...And I can still take Grey Knight Teleport Squads.

...Why wasn't I told this stuff before? Sure, I'll be playing with Space Wolves. But, my list is non-standard (mostly Terminators), and will mostly be fielded with regular marines (Imperial Fists don't go for that elaborate crap that SWs do), and painted bright yellow. So...It's kind of hard to tell that I've gone into a 'flavour of the month' army.
(Which'll disappear into Tyranids soon anyway)

...On other news, I bought a Vindicator.

[Arcanoi]

Friend bought it. He plans to use it with the models he already has and bought a few other models with money he saved up for the release. I dread facing his unit of Wolf Cavalry that are going to be doing something like 6d3 + 36 WS 4 S5 attacks on the charge. Every unit in the army has counter-attack, which just terrifies my assault-based armies. I just hope that my Khornate daemons can match the ferocity of the Space Wolves.

[Cheesegear]

Friend bought it. He plans to use it with the models he already has and bought a few other models with money he saved up for the release.

I was talking to a Blackshirt down at GW (well, it was his day off and he wasn't actually wearing his Blackshirt...So, plausible deniability) and he said there's a huge design flaw in Space Wolves. They're literally better than regular Space Marines. And that as long as WYSIWYG is in order, it doesn't actually matter what colours the model is painted or what it even looks like, so long as it conforms to the rules. So, pretty much, you can have anything you want, and still call them Space Wolves...
Anyone who is even the slightest powergamer is re-writing their list to conform to Space Wolves rules.

There was a bit of talk about this previously in this thread in regards to Chaos things.

Having spent two days devouring the Space Wolves Codex, and then comparing to Space Marines, and then talking to GW Blackshirt some guy I met at the local GW. I feel I have this to say;

First, by playing 'Space Wolves', you lose Combat Tactics and Combat Squads. Two rules that I've rarely seen used, or used myself. I'm not saying that they're never used. I'm saying that outside of the odd army list, or odd situation, these two rules aren't that great.

In exchange, you get Counter Attack and Acute Senses. Acute Senses most people don't give a damn about. But, Counter Attack. That's where the money is. Given Marines' Ld score, you should roughly be getting it roughly 75% of the time.
...Keep in mind that there's no penalty for not passing your Counter Attack roll. You get the bonus attack, or you don't. You don't actually lose anything if you fail the roll. In this regard, you can set your whole army up for 'shootiness' and tell your opponent to 'Come Get Some..." Nope. You don't ever even need to move forward again.
"Nope, not Assaulting. I'll be shooting you this turn. Then you can charge me on your turn. And I'll still get +1 Attack. Let's see how that works for you..."
...Hey, those are the rules. Don't blame me for spotting it.

Next; 4 HQs. No downside. Except that you have to arm them differently. No problem. It's really easy. Considering that both Wolf and Rune Priests come with unique weapons. It's not even possible for them to have the same weapon combinations as another character.
Only thing missing is that you can't have 'Bike Armies' in Space Wolves. Except for my own Hawk Lords, I've never seen anyone with a Bike Army in all the 15 years I've been playing. Surely it's not much of a downside.

Elites;
Wolf Guard aren't nearly as good as Sternguard. That's okay. But, Wolf Guard can be outfitted in just about any way you can think of. Including Jump Packs and Bikes. However, Jump Packs and Bikes on Wolf Guard are expensive when it comes to points. Really.
But, cheap. Terminators. You read correctly. Above in my previous post I mentioned the loss of Teleport is easily replaceable with a Drop Pod. If you've got currency, that is.
Or mitigated somewhat with a Land Raider since you can only fit 5 in a Drop Pod, vs. a whole 10 if you were Teleporting. However, like I said previously, Teleporting comes with a chance of insta-gibbing if you land on terrain or on an enemy. Drop Pods don't.
Wolf Guard 'Assault' Terminators are somewhat expensive when it comes to points though. A TH/SS Terminator coming in at 65 points (each). And Lightning Wolf Claw Terminators coming in at 50 points (each). But, Wolf Claws are better than Lightning Claws in the first place. I'll pay that ten points (regular Lightning Claw Terminators are 40 points each)
And then there's Mark of the Wulfen. Which is just gravy.

No Ironclad Dreadnoughts. Dreadnoughts and Ven. Dreads also have the benefit of taking extra Space Wolf goodies.
Techmarines and Iron Priests are a little different. Not that much.

Wolf Scouts are just awesome. With a version of Outflank that lets them deploy on your opponent's table edge. And they can also take assault weapons (flamers, plasmaguns and meltaguns) in addition to Heavy 'Scout' Weapons. And they can have power weapons.
Downside is, Sniper Rifles now cost points, and, Scouts are Elites. They can't infiltrate onto and cap objectives in Turn 1 anymore.

Lone Wolves, take 'em or leave 'em. Space Marines don't get them. Space Wolves do. That's all there is to it.

Troops;
Grey Hunters. You can have 2 Flamers (or any other assault weapon you want) in a squad now! Space Wolves make better Salamanders than Salamanders do! If you don't mind the loss of a Heavy Weapon, and the loss of Combat Squads, Grey Hunters are superior to Tactical Marines in every way.
They don't get Veteran Sergeants, but, you can easily make one out of the sweet options that Grey Hunters have. And, if that isn't enough, you can take one of the Wolf Guard from earlier, take the Wolf Guard from that squad, and stick it into your Grey Hunters.
Be exceptionally aware that Grey Hunters have a Bolt Pistol as well as a Close Combat Weapon, in addition to their Bolter. Yes. They have two one-handed weapons. Charge!

Blood Claws get one, big, giant 'Meh' from me. They get an extra attack if they charge (doesn't apply to Counter Attack), but, they get to do it at WS3. See that last part where Grey Hunters have two weapons? Yeah. Let the GHs do it. For the same Points cost.
Blood Claws also don't get the Mark of the Wulfen on one of their dudes. Which would go a long way to helping them out.
They have one downside, which is removed if you put a Wolf Guard in the unit (who can take Mark of the Wulfen).

Fast Attack;
Thunderwolf Cavalry and Fenrisian Wolves I'll cover at the same time;
Go out. Buy a Warhammer Fantasy Lizardmen Carnosaur, and then buy lots of Dark Elf, or Lizardmen Cold Ones. Play Salamanders Chapter. Laugh. Because now you have your multiple Flamers/Meltaguns back in Grey Hunters squads, and you get to field Space Marines riding Dinosaurs Salamanders and Drakes as legit units. I know I will!
(Remember, it doesn't matter what the model looks like, so long as it conforms to the rules)

...However, I have a hard time imagining what you could use for these units if you're not playing Salamanders. Scout Bikes might be usable for Fenrisian Wolves...Maybe.

Swiftclaws and Skyclaws are like Bloodclaws (above, including the WS 3 ). Except have Jump Packs or Bikes, respectively. Skyclaws get to have Mark of the Wulfen, which makes them slightly better.

Space Wolves don't get Land Speeder Storms. Or Attack Bike squads (Attack Bikes can still be bought as part of a Swiftclaw unit though). Whether this is good or bad I'll leave up to you. Since Scouts can now appear on the opponent's table edge...

Heavy Support
Okay, Long Fangs get up to 5 Heavy Weapons in their squad - probably due to the fact that their 'Tactical Squads' don't get Heavy Weapons anymore. Their 'Sergeant' also gets to take an assault weapon if he wants to.
Long Fangs don't have Combat Squads, a tactic of mine up until two days ago was field ten-man Devastator squads, and split them into two, to allow weapon allocations to different opposing units.
Long Fangs can fire at two separate targets anyway. Win. However, their small squad size makes them somewhat fragile. Meh. When you can take out both Dreadnoughts threatening the unit at the same time, it's not really an issue. Since I'm always trying to decide which of my opponents tanks is going to kill me...Now I can just shoot them both.

Every other Heavy Support is the same. Including the ability to take Crusaders and Redeemers.

Logan Grimnar allows Wolf Guard as Troops. Wolf Guard are cheap Terminators. My Imperial Fists be done!

[Myshlaevsky]

Thunderwolf Cavalry and Fenrisian Wolves I'll cover at the same time;
Go out. Buy a Warhammer Fantasy Lizardmen Carnosaur, and then buy lots of Dark Elf, or Lizardmen Cold Ones. Play Salamanders Chapter. Laugh. Because now you have your multiple Flamers/Meltaguns back in Grey Hunters squads, and you get to field Space Marines riding Dinosaurs as legit units. I know I will!
(Remember, it doesn't matter what the model looks like, so long as it conforms to the rules)

...However, I have a hard time imagining what you could use for these units if you're not playing Salamanders.

Been out of modelling and playing 40k for a while now, but I'd quite like to have a go at this one. I'd feel the need to redesign the power armour & joints though, I think.

[Cheesegear]

Been out of modelling and playing 40k for a while now, but I'd quite like to have a go at this one. I'd feel the need to redesign the power armour & joints though, I think.

I'm already doing it. That way, when I get back around to my first love (Salamanders), I'll have my Dinosaur-riding Captain all ready to go.

It's easier than it looks. Take a pair of legs (the Commander's legs already start in a fairly wide stance, and are plastic), and start hacking at the joints. Start globbing Green Stuff into the gaps. Because it's a small job, it's easy. Then take your tool/knife and just scape lines into it to create the...Piping?

The groin area looks a little bit weird at the end, but, you then cover that up with a Green Stuff'd Salamander's Mantle. Or, have the Marine standing on a platform (Fantasy chariot platforms are a good start) with no cutting neccessary.

In a recent White Dwarf (for Australia, it's issue 357, so, look around that number), there's a battle between Dark Elves and Goblins.
And the Dark Elf player has a chariot-platform on his Hydra with guys effectively 'riding' the Hydra.
(Oooh...A Hydra is another Thunderwolf stand-in)

Alternatively...Lizardmen Stegadon. 'Nuff said. Another option is the Orc Wyvern (green stuff in the gaps where it's wings should go...Or leave the wings on...Your call. ).

You should end up with an army that looks like Dino Riders.

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[Myshlaevsky]

I mean more try and make the armour look more articulated. I'll need to check out the possible models I could use. Thanks for the dino sources - it's gotta be a Carnodon, though, I think. Those things look awesome.

[Cheesegear]

I mean more try and make the armour look more articulated. I'll need to check out the possible models I could use.

Like I said, a good place to start is the plastic SM Commander box. Not only do you get wide-set legs to begin with, but, you get all the funky bits that need to be put on from the waist up, weapons, icons, heads/helmets, etc.

I started with Carnosaur and Commander box. It's working out well so far. If you're any good with Green Stuff, it should be a cinch. If you're not, well, the guys at GW are pretty good at teaching you how. Just remember that green stuff is best used in small amounts at a time - and keep your fingers wet so the GS doesn't dry too quickly.

If you're doing a big job (which filling in gaps between armour isn't), then you might have some problems with GS.

[Myshlaevsky]

I at least plan on making some plasticard modifications to the amrour. The Salamanders are still big on forging/making things, right? I might go for a really 'knightly' look to a suit of artificer armour. A pallanquin sounds really cool but I'd prefer to make a rider. If the rider conversion goes well I might try another with a pallanquin or platform - I'd probably go for guard (Nocturne PDF, perhaps?) so I could get a weapon platform on there, though.

Edit: In fact, aren't the Salamanders unusually friendly with the natives of Nocturne? To the extent of taking sabbaticals in their old haunts/villages? I might make this a conversion project detailing a Nocturne 'hunting trip'. A collection of more feral hunters who, after a dangerous beast has attacked their village, have joined a group of PDF or indentured-to-the-chapter soldiers led by a marine on sabbatical to hunt it down.

[Dark Faun]

Space Wolves make better Salamanders than Salamanders do!

...I need to start reading the last pages of codices. I've made a multi-melta wielding Salamanders for nothing.

However, I thought Terminators weren't allowed to use Drop Pods?

[Arcanoi]

Nah. It was more 'Why would I spend 35 points(I think that's how much it costs)
on a drop-pod when they could teleport in for free?