Elemental Evil Player's Companion PDF released, for free

[pwykersotz]

Totally unimportant complaint here...why for the love of Mystra are the spells out of alphabetical order? Ice Knife before Earth Tremor, Create Bonfire before Control Flames...agh!

Now back to your regularly scheduled forums.

[charlesk]

Agreed on the weird distribution of spells across classes. But am I the only one who finds most of them rather underwhelming? Most are not bad, but neither especially awesome.

I suppose one could argue that this is evidence of correct balancing. :)

[Galen]

Agreed on the weird distribution of spells across classes. But am I the only one who finds most of them rather underwhelming? Most are not bad, but neither especially awesome.

I suppose one could argue that this is evidence of correct balancing. :)

The 8th level spell Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting deals slightly less damage than a Fireball cast from an 8th level slot. Of course, a lot of creatures are immune to or resist fire, but A-DHW grants two creature types flat immunity.

[Rallicus]

So... what purpose does create bonfire serve? It only lasts a minute with concentration.

My only guess is that it can create a bonfire in conditions that would otherwise be impossible, maybe? I don't know.

Even the caster in the picture has this expression like, "Why am I doing this? This fire'll be snuffed in a minute, and I'm just standing here like a freaking dolt."

EDIT: I realize it has combat utility but the name implies... you know... making a bonfire, not a five foot square of flame to hurt enemies with.

[Forrestfire]

Well, it's a cantrip, so as long as you maintain it every minute, it will last as long as you like. I'd imagine it'll also set fire to actual logs you put in.

[Dralnu]

Agreed on the weird distribution of spells across classes. But am I the only one who finds most of them rather underwhelming? Most are not bad, but neither especially awesome.

I get the same feeling, but some of them feel great in certain situations.

Absorb Elements feels unique and gives melee like Eldritch Knights a way to be tankier against spell damage.

Beast Bond is a buff to Beastmasters, which is welcome.

Catapult is another one of those enablers for sweet character concepts. I can imagine a spellcaster chucking vials of acid or better with this.

Dust Devil seems straight-up powerful to me etc.

I suppose one could argue that this is evidence of correct balancing. :)

This! My biggest fear is power creep. I'm happy to see the first supplement doesn't have this problem, at least at first glance. It's a good sign for the future.




Also question about Melf's Minute Meteors:

Each creature within 5 feet of the point where the meteor explodes must make a Dexterity saving throw.

Why do they say this instead of describing it as a radius like they do with Fireball? Wouldn't this be a 10 ft. radius sphere?

[Chronos]

"Within five feet" is a radius.

[pwykersotz]

Another minor flaw:

Erupting Earth
3rd-level transmutation
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 120 feet
Components: V, S, M (a piece of obsidian)
Duration: Instantaneous
Choose a point you can see on the ground within range. A fountain of churned earth and stone erupts in a 20-foot cube centered on that point. Each creature in that area must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 3d12 bludgeoning damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
Additionally, the ground in that area becomes difficult terrain until cleared away. Each 5-foot-square portion of the area requires at least 1 minute to clear by hand.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d12 for each slot level above 2nd.

I choose to cast it as a 3rd level spell, and increase my damage by 1d12 to 4d12 total!

[CrusaderJoe]

My first thought exactly.

Now is there a reason why we can't have more Athletics/Acrobatic based maneuvers? Doesn't magic have enough? WHy must magic be such a glutton?

I wonder if 6e won't have any non-caster base classes at all.

[Ghost Nappa]

Maybe now when I start shouting "C-CAW C-CAW" at my teammates because they didn't hear my earlier bird calls, they won't stare at me like I'm a chicken without a head.

[ChubbyRain]

Maybe now when I start shouting "C-CAW C-CAW" at my teammates because they didn't hear my earlier bird calls, they won't stare at me like I'm a chicken without a head.

I'm sure an undead Aarakocra could be made without a head...

Or I'm sure there is an illusion spell that works for that...

They should have added a trait, if the Aarakocra is decapitated (vorpal weapon or other) then their body runs around for 1d4+1 minutes in random directions.

[SharkForce]

i find it interesting that people would complain that there are few bard spells.

you couldn't be more wrong. they are *all* bard spells (or at least, the best ones are at any rate). if any of them are more worthwhile than current options, you just take those. if they aren't more worthwhile than current options, who cares if you get them or not?

[obryn]

Now all my skelly bros are shooting flaming arrows at earthbound targets.

[SharkForce]

Now all my skelly bros are shooting flaming arrows at earthbound targets.

that's fairly surprising considering both are concentration...

(besides, the real fun with minions is magic stone, which lets others use your casting modifier as their attack attribute, and being a ranged spell attack probably always applies their proficiency bonus whether they are proficient with a sling or not. also, being a spell attack, it is therefore not a nonmagical weapon, or indeed any sort of weapon at all).

[Dralnu]

"Within five feet" is a radius.

I mean, Fireball specifically says "20 ft. radius sphere" as its area. Why don't they keep the wording consistent instead of "within five feet"? That makes me wonder if it covers 3x3 squares (within 5ft of the originating square?) or 2x2 (you put it in the corner).

[ChubbyRain]

I mean, Fireball specifically says "20 ft. radius sphere" as its area. Why don't they keep the wording consistent instead of "within five feet"? That makes me wonder if it covers 3x3 squares (within 5ft of the originating square?) or 2x2 (you put it in the corner).

There is no grid by base rules, so it is within 5'. These squares you speak of, I know not what they are!

Basically lay out your stuff on a table and use a ruler (I prefer a small stick with notches/sharpie lines) and measure 5' from the center point.

I haven't used a grid since 2e, my 3e/4e/5e games have never really used them when I run a game.

[Malifice]

Also the Fire element has more than enough support through spells. It would be nice to see more love for other elements such as lightning. Or better yet, introduce a feat that lets you substitute elemental damage, so you can make Fireball into Lightningball. It would solve all problems.

Have my homebrewed feat that does just that.

Elemental affinity

• You learn the firebolt cantrip and can cast it at will.
• When you gain this feat, choose one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder. Any spell or class feature you use that would ordinarily deal any of any of these damage types now deals damage of the type you chose when you gained this feat.
• In addition, you gain resistance to your chosen damage type.

For all you Elsa wannabe's out there.

Let it go.

[Falling Icicle]

The 8th level spell Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting deals slightly less damage than a Fireball cast from an 8th level slot. Of course, a lot of creatures are immune to or resist fire, but A-DHW grants two creature types flat immunity.

A better comparison can be made between Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting and sunburst, since they are both 8th level spells. ADHW deals 10d8 (avg. 45) damage. Sunburst deals 12d6 (avg. 42) damage, which is slightly less, but it's radiant, which very few creatures are resistant or immune to. Sunburst affects undead and constructs (ADHW does not), it affects a 60 ft. radius sphere (so it's area of effect is several times larger than Horrid Wilting) and it also blinds creatures. Sunburst puts Horrid Wilting to shame.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

ADHW is a con save rather than a dex save like many AOE spells.

aside from targeting a different save, that also means that enemies in cover don't get advantage against it

[rollingForInit]

I love that we finally have Genasi.

The only thing I think is missing is that the Earth and Air Genasi don't get any cantrips, when the features they do have aren't really much more powerful than Fire/Water. Personally, I'd give Gust to Air Genasi, and Mold Earth to Earth Genasi. That'd put them more on par with Fire/Water. And possibly allow players to choose between Control Flames and Conjure Flame for Fire genasi.

More fluff is better. Air Genasi even have the fluff text about being accompanied by minor gusts of air all the time.

[Gwendol]

Good call on cantrips for all genasi. The 5e Powerful Build feature feels underwhelming. Being considered a size larger in all occasions it would be an advantage for the goliath is not overpowering, and is a nice and defining trait. Right now they feel more of a somewhat weaker orc.
I would have liked to see some elemental-themed equipment (and not only spells), and a more even distribution of spells, but on the whole the playable races are all a welcome addition.

[Chronos]

A couple more points: First, someone said that they were glad to see that this supplement didn't have powercreep in it, but supplements like this are exactly how powercreep happens. It introduces some new stuff, some of which is a little worse than what came before, and some of which is a little better than what came before. Overall, it's at about the same power level as core, so it looks balanced. Except that's not the way it's actually going to work out: The things that are underpowered, nobody's ever going to take, so they're irrelevant. The things that are more powerful, everyone's going to take, so everyone (or at least, everyone with access to this material) will get a little bit more powerful. Repeat with every new supplement, and eventually you start noticing that everything's a lot more powerful than it used to be.

Second, this confirms something I was worried about as soon as I saw 5th edition: In what directions can it expand? You can always introduce new spells, but there's not nearly as much you can give to mundanes. In 3rd edition, you could at least hope for new prestige classes and feats, but in this edition there are no prestige classes, and feats are somewhere between rare and nonexistent. But spells? Yeah, we're getting plenty of those, and so the already overpowered casters just get even more overpowered.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

There is actually one feat in the supplement. The Deep Gnomes have racial spellcasting that they have to expend a feat to learn.

I sympathize with your concerns, but Elemental Evil was pretty much always going to be magic, magic, magic, magic.

Though I am surprised there were no subclass expansions, honestly.

[cobaltstarfire]

Second, this confirms something I was worried about as soon as I saw 5th edition: In what directions can it expand? You can always introduce new spells, but there's not nearly as much you can give to mundanes. In 3rd edition, you could at least hope for new prestige classes and feats, but in this edition there are no prestige classes, and feats are somewhere between rare and nonexistent. But spells? Yeah, we're getting plenty of those, and so the already overpowered casters just get even more overpowered.

It can give the "mundanes" more archetypes, combat oriented races, and in the cases where they can choose from a list of abilities (like battle master) more things to choose from.

I think/hope that the main reason this particular expansion is mostly spells is because more spells fits into the theme of dealing with elements and stuff. With any luck the next expansion will focus more on the martial character.

[Dralnu]

I agree, more options always means more power. I accept that. If it's a decision between power creep or more options, I'll choose more options.

The sticking point is the rate of power creep. If design is aware of it and trying their best to avoid it then hopefully it happens at a slower rate. That's all I wish for.

What really excites me are new options that don't buff the best options, but rather are niche options that help neglected archetypes or offer make new ones viable.

Beast Bond is a buff to Beastmasters, but the subclass could use buffs anyway, so I approve of that power creep.

Then there's spells like Catapult that stir my imagination in wonderful ways. I'd love to play a caster that hurls dangerous objects at opponents, and this would be a key spell to make such a character viable crunch-wise.

[Demonic Spoon]

A couple more points: First, someone said that they were glad to see that this supplement didn't have powercreep in it, but supplements like this are exactly how powercreep happens. It introduces some new stuff, some of which is a little worse than what came before, and some of which is a little better than what came before. Overall, it's at about the same power level as core, so it looks balanced. Except that's not the way it's actually going to work out: The things that are underpowered, nobody's ever going to take, so they're irrelevant. The things that are more powerful, everyone's going to take, so everyone (or at least, everyone with access to this material) will get a little bit more powerful. Repeat with every new supplement, and eventually you start noticing that everything's a lot more powerful than it used to be.

I haven't found anything in the PHB or the EE that is bad enough that no one would ever take it (with a couple exceptions, mostly nonfunctional rules like Grappler).

Power creep happened in 3.x because splatbooks specifically created new mechanics with the intention of changing balance, and feat choices that were actually designed to increase the power of certain kinds of characters (in addition to being terribly balanced). Also, 3.5 balance was arguably at its worst in Core, and WotC clearly tried to fix that in splats, which means that they were intentionally engaging in power creep.

Finally, the intention isn't that every option from every supplement is available in every campaign. The last sentence of the first paragraph in the EE supplement even says that these are character creation options if they're allowed. Several other parts of the supplement also offer similar disclaimers - for example, the druid spells list has a disclaimer that the DM will probably at most give access to a small subset of the new spells, and that you probably don't have full access to everything.

[ChubbyRain]

It can give the "mundanes" more archetypes, combat oriented races, and in the cases where they can choose from a list of abilities (like battle master) more things to choose from.

I think/hope that the main reason this particular expansion is mostly spells is because more spells fits into the theme of dealing with elements and stuff. With any luck the next expansion will focus more on the martial character.

Races are not an option for martials, they are an option for every class. Goliath Sorcerer, Warlock, or Cleric all seems fun.

The core noncaster archetypes for most martials (Beserker, Battle Master, Champion, Assassin) suck already, so any new option will be "balanced" with the already suck of the core options. So anything new will either be perceived as over powered or will suck just as much.

Wooo, totally looking forward to this!

[Gwendol]

The core noncaster archetypes for most martials (Beserker, Battle Master, Champion, Assassin) suck already, so any new option will be "balanced" with the already suck of the core options.

Eh, those classes work fine even if not all of them are that exciting. They most certainly do not "suck"! Throwing in a firebrand like that in a mostly unrelated thread is begging for a fight.

[Elderand]

Eh, those classes work fine even if not all of them are that exciting. They most certainly do not "suck"! Throwing in a firebrand like that in a mostly unrelated thread is begging for a fight.

You and your common sense again ! :P

[cobaltstarfire]

Races are not an option for martials, they are an option for every class. Goliath Sorcerer, Warlock, or Cleric all seems fun.

Well of course that's a given, but races that are more geared specifically to empowering the martials was what I had in mind.