Reading Heir to the Empire

[Sapphire Guard]

CH13:

Leia freezes for a heartbeat. It's too late to go anywhere without being seen. She could cut a hole through the back wall and duck out while the Imperials are entering, but sealing the hole is a problem. Then they hear the assault bombers, which mean there's no way they can escape out the lightsabre hole. They have to hide in the dukha itself. There's just enough space for Chewbacca and Leia, but 3PO has to be suspended overhead in a hanging star dish. Chewbacca climbs the pillars and puts him there,hen makes the booth before the Imperials enter.

Leia hears the voice, which by itself has 'an authority that surpassed even the smug condescension she'd faced from Governor Tarkin'. These books really do love Thrawn.

Leia very unwisely tries to get a look at the newcomer, but gets away with it.

Khararakh immediately gets in trouble for backtalk, as Thrawn picks up on his nerves. Traditionally, lying to your lord is death among the Noghri. Thrawn places Khabarakh under arrest, which violates Noghri traditions, but Thrawn doesn't care despite invoking said traditions two pages ago. He pulls a Tarkin, threatening the maitrakh with 'a reminder' and then doing it anyway after she gives in to the threat.

The Chimaera is firing into the nearby hills as an object lesson, and Khabarakh is to be taken to Nystao to the clans prior to interrogation aboard the Chimaera.

Thrawn leaves, leaving Leia and Chewbacca stranded in the village. Well, that's unfortunate.

Let that be a lesson to NPCs everywhere... never be nice to protagonists. It rarely ends well.

[Peelee]

Leia hears the voice, which by itself has 'an authority that surpassed even the smug condescension she'd faced from Governor Tarkin'. These books really do love Thrawn.

If it's a more humanized Thrawn you're looking for, your be better off with Outbound Flight or the new Thrawn novel. And by humanized, I mean "much less egotistical power tripping Thrawn." Though still a big egotistical.

[Friv]

Leia hears the voice, which by itself has 'an authority that surpassed even the smug condescension she'd faced from Governor Tarkin'. These books really do love Thrawn.

See, this is interesting - my read off that line is that it's about just how arrogant and self-assured Thrawn is, not how cool he is. Even Tarkin wasn't that smug and stupidly sure of his own perfection.

[Peelee]

See, this is interesting - my read off that line is that it's about just how arrogant and self-assured Thrawn is, not how cool he is. Even Tarkin wasn't that smug and stupidly sure of his own perfection.

Same. It seemed like a reference to his belief in his own superiority.

[GrayDeath]

Indeed.

Being compared to TARKIN is not a compliment...ever...

[hamishspence]

See, this is interesting - my read off that line is that it's about just how arrogant and self-assured Thrawn is, not how cool he is. Even Tarkin wasn't that smug and stupidly sure of his own perfection.

The impression I get is that Zahn intended Thrawn's voice to be seen as "full of authority" rather than just "smug" - underlining that he's the de-facto ruler of the Empire, whereas Tarkin was just one of the Emperor's underlings.

[Keltest]

The impression I get is that Zahn intended Thrawn's voice to be seen as "full of authority" rather than just "smug" - underlining that he's the de-facto ruler of the Empire, whereas Tarkin was just one of the Emperor's underlings.

Its probably both. Remember that this is from Leia's perspective, and she is unlikely to be complimentary to somebody actively trying to find and kill her.

[hamishspence]

Its probably both. Remember that this is from Leia's perspective, and she is unlikely to be complimentary to somebody actively trying to find and kill her.

There's also an element of "From the voice alone, she can tell that it's a real Grand Admiral and not a fake":

She’d heard Han’s description of the man he’d seen on Myrkr - the pale blue skin, the glowing red eyes, the white Imperial uniform. She’d heard, too, Fey’lya’s casual dismissal of the man as an impostor, or at best a self-promoted Moff. And she’d wondered privately if Han might indeed have been mistaken.

She knew now that he hadn’t been.

[Kish]

I'm also still shaking my head at the presumption that "these books emphasize that the villain is impressive" is supposed to be a legitimate criticism.

Somehow, I doubt Sapphire Guard spent the first few minutes of Star Wars (the movie) going, "What, this caped guy has his own theme song? Come on!"

[hamishspence]

I'm also still shaking my head at the presumption that "these books emphasize that the villain is impressive" is supposed to be a legitimate criticism.

The usual version is



"the books keep comparing the villain favourably to OT villains - emphasising ways in which they are "better" than the OT villains, and this is a Bad Thing - tearing down OT villains to elevate yours, is Bad Form."

[Sapphire Guard]

That voice had the unmistakable tone of an Imperial Commander, but with a calmness and sheer weight of authority behind it. An authority that surpassed even the smug condescension she'd faced from Governor Tarkin aboard the Death Star

That reads to me as 'like an Imperial commander, but better.' Which Leia can tell just from his voice.

If it's a more humanized Thrawn you're looking for, your be better off with Outbound Flight or the new Thrawn novel. And by humanized, I mean "much less egotistical power tripping Thrawn." Though still a big egotistical.

Read Thrawn between Heir and starting this book. Far prefer this one. Didn't read Outbound Flight in case it revealed something about C'Baoth's past that was meant to be a twist in this book or the sequel. Probably pick it up afterwards, since it's in the library anyway.

The character himself isn't a problem, just how every single scene (I don't think I'm exaggerating) is set up for him to one up someone. There's always a convenient nearby problem or conclusion that only Thrawn knows the solution to. But I'm repeating myself.

CH14:

Luke arrives on Jomark, to find that it looks a lot like the maps. He can sense C'Baoth, but not home in on him. So he has R2 run a sensor focus. Jomark's basically one small island, but there are thousands of even smaller ones. Hmm. Wonder if Luke's refuge in TLJ took any inspiration from this.

R2 scans for population, and most of its on the coast, but Luke's eye is caught by one particular lake that seems like a good place for a Jedi to live in seclusion. He flies lower until noting a particular mansion and decides to start there. By the time he finishes landing, C'Baoth has come out to say hello.

C'Baoth welcomes him, then complains that he's late. Luke pleads circumstances beyond his control, which is the wrong thing to say, as Jedi are meant to control their surroundings.

"I must have gone through four Imperial attacks since I first started out this way."

C'Baoth looked at him sharply. "Did you, now. Were they directed specifically at you?"

See, this is what I was talking about back in book 1. If C'Baoth asks for details here, and the date of the ambush or the name Chimaera comes up, Thrawn loses his tame Jedi. But he doesn't, so they move on.

C'Baoth brings up Leia, and the reason he called him. He plans to complete Luke's training... and needs his help, as he's getting old. Luke asks about enlisting C'Baoth in the republic for 'justice'

Do not look to lesser beings for justice, Jedi Skywalker

Hmm. Well, there's a good start. Luke mentions that Leia's twins need a teacher, while having misgivings about them being taught by this man. C'Baoth says he'll teach them himself, and Luke besides. In justice, perhaps. So they go down to the village. R2 stays, as C'Baoth considers him an abomination, and scans for Darkside caves.

They get in a cart and go down to the village. Luke tries to find out if C'Baoth was serving the Emperor and gets called on it. C'Baoth says he was out of reach for most of his reign, then trails off. He mentions Mara's uncertain force grip, and Luke mentions he knows her.

Then they move back to the Outbound Flight, and C'Baoth says he's the last survivor and came back changed, but refuses to elaborate.

They arrive at a village, where C'Baoth has a throne for justice dispensing, but this time they just sense aggression, and go in to discover two armed men. C'Baoth listens to their stories and dispenses judgement, favouring one party. Luke, more inclined to compromise has misgivings but lets it stand, and the guilty party dips for a weapon. C'baoth force lightnings him in response.

If you allow your justice to be forgotten, you will be forced to repeat the same lessons again and again.

Interesting point.

Luke then goes to visit R2. No mystery plants or Darkside caves. He's not sure what to make of this new Jedi, Yoda messed with his expectations too, but didn't have the same hard edge. All that said, he doesn't have the aura of a Darksider, so Luke concludes he's probably just insane. Feeling oddly fatigued, he mentions that C'Baoth might possibly have gone insane due to being anchored to someone else while dying. So he wants to help C'Baoth if he can. It might not be the most efficient use of his time, but back on Coruscant he told himself he couldn't get too removed from individuals.

So, we finally arrive on Jomark after first hearing about it fairly early in book 1, and it's a very good chapter. Assuming it's not C'Baoth influencing his brain, the extent of compassion Luke is capable of is a great thing to spend time on. He's not completely gullible or suborned, but staying to help an old insane man. The non combat parts of Jedi-ing are nice to spend time on.

Another thing I like about these books is that there's no unnecessary cliffhangers, they didn't put this chapter after the 'Thrawn's coming back' chapter ending just to build suspense, I appreciate that.

[Peelee]

Read Thrawn between Heir and starting this book. Far prefer this one. Didn't read Outbound Flight in case it revealed something about C'Baoth's past that was meant to be a twist in this book or the sequel. Probably pick it up afterwards, since it's in the library anyway.

That's an excellent idea, and something I hadn't thought about. There is absolutely at least one major spoiler in there. Sorry.

Spoiler: Potential spoilers depending on which books you read first. tl;dr - IMO you should totally do Thrawn Duology once you've wrapped up the trilogy.

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The Pellaeon analog is one of my favorite characters in the EU. Of course, reading the Thrawn Duology first helps, since they give him a lot of buildup.

Also, I agree that the newest Thrawn wasn't as good.

[Rakaydos]

See, this is what I was talking about back in book 1. If C'Baoth asks for details here, and the date of the ambush or the name Chimaera comes up, Thrawn loses his tame Jedi. But he doesn't, so they move on.

"Details? Well, there was an attack on my friends mining station where thrawn was stealing mining bots. There was the random interdictor chasing down a freighter I stumbled across, with destroyer escort of course. Some stormtroopers I had to get past to get off a planet. And there was the shipyard raid where thrawn used the stolen mining robots to try stealing warships."

If the freighter wasnt there, I'd agree with you, but thrawn covered himself from the "Directed at you" question being asked.

[Dragonus45]

"Details? Well, there was an attack on my friends mining station where thrawn was stealing mining bots. There was the random interdictor chasing down a freighter I stumbled across, with destroyer escort of course. Some stormtroopers I had to get past to get off a planet. And there was the shipyard raid where thrawn used the stolen mining robots to try stealing warships."

If the freighter wasnt there, I'd agree with you, but thrawn covered himself from the "Directed at you" question being asked.

The problem is that Thrawn was there under the name of his own flagship. Which plays into his fatal flaw of ego and often just not believing he his plans could ever ultimately fail. Short term surrender or set backs he can accept but I sometimes think he just cannot fathom a world where things don't come together.

[Rakaydos]

The problem is that Thrawn was there under the name of his own flagship. Which plays into his fatal flaw of ego and often just not believing he his plans could ever ultimately fail. Short term surrender or set backs he can accept but I sometimes think he just cannot fathom a world where things don't come together.

Ok. But even with cbath asking for more details, the "coincidental" intercept appears to be a mundane "enforcing the peace" action- even with luke remembering the star destroyers transponder code, there's no reason for it to come up, EVEN if Cbath asks about it.

[Sapphire Guard]

There are many ways it could come up.

"Why didn't you come when you got my call?"

"I left immediately for this planet, but a Star Destroyer intercepted me."

(Hmm...that's directly after I told Thrawn a)where you were, and b) where you were going.) "I see...was it directed specifically at you?"

"I don't think so. It intercepted a freighter, then hailed me by coincidence. What was it called again R2?"

Sorry for bringing us back here, thread.


CH15:

Senator Bel Ibliss is regaling Han and Lando with war stories, about hitting a particular Imperial base and how that got the Empire on their backs so they had to stay mobile, hence the base being built out of materials that can be folded up in short order. Lightning storms unfold them, so there are some drawbacks.

They get drinks, and Han notices Lando being a bit cold to their host. Anyway, Fey'lya helped out the Senator a few times, but nothing major. The Senator is a bit suspicious of Mon Mothma, probably courtesy of Fey'lya, but Han knows nothing particularly incriminating about her.

Lando wonders why the Senator didn't join the rebellion. He doesn't like the security leaks, especially the one out of the Imperial palace known as Delta Source. Well, that makes this Senator very well informed.
s
His duties call the Senator away, and Lando outlines his suspicions. The camp has been around longer than a few months, so they've been quiet. Lando thinks this might be some kind of coup deal with the Bothans...or worse, an Imperial scam. Give Fey'lya a pretend army to cause trouble with the Rebellion, infighting.

They go back to their room, and Lando plays with the furniture, where he discovers it's blue gold...which just so happens to be the decoration of Katana Fleet. That's suspicious enough that Han's hackles are up now too, so they go looking for answers.

Well, Katana fleet has turned out to be a lot more than the fleeting reference I thought it was. Even the interior decorating is famous.

Simplest explanation is that Senator Iblis just bought a freighter from Karrde, if Thrawn knew where the fleet was, he wouldn't need to raid for ships. Or else the Senator found it himself. Hope that virus that killed everyone aboard isn't just hibernating or something.

[Keltest]

I dunno, I still think youre worrying about an oddly specific scenario. Yes, it wouldn't be great for Thrawn if Luke were to name drop him, but its not completely game ending, and his flagship isn't unique enough to ne noteworthy to anyone not already closely familiar with Thrawn.

[Peelee]

There are many ways it could come up.

"Why didn't you come when you got my call?"

"I left immediately for this planet, but a Star Destroyer intercepted me."

(Hmm...that's directly after I told Thrawn a)where you were, and b) where you were going.) "I see...was it directed specifically at you?"

"I don't think so. It intercepted a freighter, then hailed me by coincidence. What was it called again R2?"

Sorry for bringing us back here, thread.

Don't be sorry! If it bugs you, it's totally worth bringing up.

Though why Luke would bother to specify to Joruus which specific ship it was freely is a bit silly; I just can't see him volunteering that information for no reason coming up organically. Similarly, C'Baoth asking which specific ship also would be very difficult to achieve organically, without making it seem as if he was Imperial-allied.

Spoiler: Really big spoiler

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Why yes, I did use C'baoth's clone name right by Skywalker's to allude to Luuke's appearance later on as a super subtle teaser for Sapphire Guard.

[The_Snark]

Honestly, I think the whole ambush scenario is best explained by the fact that Thrawn is annoyed at C'Baoth when he does it. Tactically speaking, there's no point, because the plan will only work if Luke is already heading to the place they're going to deliver himIt's basically an attempt to one-up C'Baoth, by presenting him with a gift-wrapped Luke Skywalker right after being told "no, you clearly can't handle this job". You're right that the freighter-as-cover-story* is a little thin, but I don't think Thrawn cares very much if C'Baoth sees through it. Yes, he'd be pissed, but a) Thrawn is confident that he can talk him into continuing to cooperate, and b) Thrawn kind of wants to piss him off. The whole thing is basically a power play/fit of pique.

*Although one could argue that it's aimed more at Luke than C'Baoth, to stop him from wondering about how they knew where he was going. In this, at least, it appears successful.

[Cikomyr]

Plus, I think that if Thrawn did indeed captured Luke, he could have played the card "he cannot be that great of a Jedi if he let ME capture him", which I think would be very effective on CBaoth, considering his arrogance.

[Kish]

I think there's an excellent chance that Thrawn thought he could talk his way out of ambushing Luke and couldn't have actually done so.

Spoiler

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Relating to C'Baoth seems to very much highlight Thrawn's weaknesses, actually--he's not very good at manipulating him and his plans to deal with the threat C'Baoth ultimately poses to him are entirely inadequate, apparently because he can't make himself take someone irrational seriously.

[Peelee]

I think there's an excellent chance that Thrawn thought he could talk his way out of ambushing Luke and couldn't have actually done so.

Spoiler

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Relating to C'Baoth seems to very much highlight Thrawn's weaknesses, actually--he's not very good at manipulating him and his plans to deal with the threat C'Baoth ultimately poses to him are entirely inadequate, apparently because he can't make himself take someone irrational seriously.

Spoiler

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I'm unsure of whether he can't make himself someone irrational seriously, or if he just can't deal with crazy. Imean, it's not like C'Baoth was terribly stable to begin with, even before the clone.

[Sapphire Guard]

I believe he said he wasn't sure if he wanted to hand Luke over to C'Baoth or not, but wanted to leave the option open to him.

CH16:

Lando and Han go back to the lounge, where they can find proof of the Katana fleet theory. Lando knows a lot about the fleet because he got scammed with a fake map once upon a time and studied up so he could pull the same trick.

Han asks the bartender to get something from the backroom and follows him out to keep him occupied. When he comes back, Lando's at gunpoint. Good omen.

Sena drives them around and they talk for a bit. Apparently she came to ask a favour, which makes the gunpoint approach slightly unnecessary. She wants Han to ask Mon Mothma to invite the Senator back onboard the Alliance. He defected in the early days, after being influential early on but being gradually sidelined by Mon Mothma. So the Senator is stuck because he can't swallow his pride and go back to her.

Han tries to strike a deal re Katana fleet in trade for the assist on re-entry, but Sena doesn't know about it. But they haven't promised them to Fey'lya either, he's politically minded, not military, he's just trying to talk the Senator back for the prestige. But he's probably not behind the bank transfer, as he's more of an opportunist than an active plotter.

Anyway, Han figures that sooner or later the 'Grand Admiral' will come to scoop up their ships. At least they don't know where the ships are, because they bought them from Karrde on a gambling ship. Sena agrees to let them leave.

Ibliss is waiting by their ship by coincidence, initially suspecting betrayal when he sees Sena. He would like to go back to the Alliance, but doesn't have 'anything to bring'. Although his military record is respectable.

Anyway he agrees to send them back to Bel Cov, certain that the Imperials won't still be there. Making assumptions about Thrawn seldom works out well, but we'll see. They say their farewells as well as the usual 'Betray him, and you deal with me' threat from Sena.

Thrawn reads a report noting that the Falcon is on Endor. He's confused by this, and it actually leads him to believe that Khabarakh was deliberately released as a distraction, and so won't bother interrogating him, so that first mistake has snowballed a bit. If the Noghri do interrogate Khabarakh, maybe Leia will get to make her speech after all. Thrawn thinks she might be looking for the location of Mount Tantiss, which is taking a long time to do whatever it is it's doing.

Just before they jump to Lightspeed, they get a report that one of Talon Karrde's freighters has been captured, and Thrawn reads the interrogation report as they leave.

So this politics is getting more interesting, this Senator has an interesting story assuming he's telling the truth. Fey'lya is probably exonerated of actually framing Ackbar. The more people know Karrde has the fleet, the more likely he is to get hunted down, and the Empire has already picked up his trail. Thrawn makes his first true mistake, although whether this just wastes his time or costs him the Noghri remains to be determined.

Edit: That modified probe droid is still in the village, right? So he'll find out eventually.

[hamishspence]

At least they don't know where the ships are, because they bought them from Karrde on a gambling ship.

Actually they bought them from a "white-haired weaselly guy". The fact that this is not Karrde, will matter, later.

[Cikomyr]

I think Thrawn's initial mistake is simply assuming that nobody would ever be stupid enough to come in Honoghr, where he has full allegiance of the population at a deep, cultural level.

Which is a bit puzzling, since he doesnt seem to understand that the Noghri might supercede their loyalty to Him with the loyalty they feel toward Darth Vader. For a man so proud of his understanding of other species' psyches.

Spoiler

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I think one of the blind spot that exist in this trilogy of book - highlighted in Book 3 - is that the galaxy at large... Just doesn't know that Skywalker and Leia were the children of Darth Vader.

Knowledge of that fact has been branded in our memory so deeply, the idea that someone does not know it is almost alien to us.

Thrawn didnt knew Leia was Darth Vader's daughter. Its not that he doesn't understand the noghris, its that there is a deep secret he is unaware of. I left the misdirection in the unspoiler to satisfy Saphire Guard's dislike of Thrawn ;)

As you saw, Thrawn then refuses to acknowledge he made an error. As you just said, he is snowballing in his erroneous assumptions. His Error becomes a Mistake.

[Keltest]

Spoiler

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Actually they bought them from a "white-haired weaselly guy". The fact that this is not Karrde, will matter, later.

Spoiler Alert!

[russdm]

Edit: That modified probe droid is still in the village, right? So he'll find out eventually.

That's presuming that the droid reports in on a schedule. It could just deliver all of it's information later all at one time. Was it said what kind of reporting detail, the droid had?

[hamishspence]

Spoiler Alert!

It was in Chapter 16, which has already been read. The erroneous conclusion that it was Karrde, needs to be corrected.

[russdm]

Actually they bought them from a "white-haired weaselly guy". The fact that this is not Karrde, will matter, later.

There is also the fact that both Han and Lando have meet Karrde face to face, so if Karrde was described to them, they would be able to identify it as being Karrde.

[Sapphire Guard]

That's presuming that the droid reports in on a schedule. It could just deliver all of it's information later all at one time. Was it said what kind of reporting detail, the droid had?

It has no antennae, so they have to check in on it. But presumably someone will check on it eventually.

There is also the fact that both Han and Lando have meet Karrde face to face, so if Karrde was described to them, they would be able to identify it as being Karrde.

From a two line description? Not necessarily. He might have hired a middle man to broker the deal anyway. But I will adjust my expectations accordingly. Honestly, I forgot what he actually looked like.

I think Thrawn's initial mistake is simply assuming that nobody would ever be stupid enough to come in Honoghr, where he has full allegiance of the population at a deep, cultural level.]

He doesn't really have any reason to conclude that Leia/Chewbacca are on site or that they can somehow identify her bloodline by scent, so I'm not calling that a mistake, but failure to interrogate Khabarakh is an honest bad call. Even if it was disinformation, what the enemy wants you to know can still help you draw conclusions.

CH17:

Mara wanders through Abregado spaceport, not really a fan of places like this. She's here to spring theEtherway out of impoundment. Her contact is a dark haired young man that can't hide his military bearing. She gives the code phrases, and he introduces himself as Wedge. She identifies him as a pilot, and he offers to escort her out, which would be a touch too conspicuous. Wedge asks about whether she can sell information on 'our friend with the eyes'.

She gets into orbit and her force senses tingle, so she powers the engine hard, but the ISD is already on an intercept course. She wonders if Wedge is the target, but 'a single X wing pilot could hardly be important enough to tie up a Victory class Star Destroyer. It doesn't seem to me like she's any higher value, they're only being hunted because Thrawn holds a grudge, but anyway, she's hailed by the ISD.

Note to Self: Star Destroyer Adamant.. Joining the Judicator, Death's Head, Relentless, Stormhawk, Nemesis, Chimaera. I've probably forgotten a few.

With her options limited, she says hello to the ISD and asks to be transported to Thrawn. The Captain doesn't quite buy it until she gives an old Emperor's Hand recognition code.

The ISD locks her up on board while they go find Thrawn, moving very fast, which makes her a very high value target to be using an ISD like a taxi. They do flit back and forth a bit from 'You don't use a Star Destroyer if you don't want to be noticed' to 'yeah let's divert this entire ship for the sake of this one fighter/freighter/target'

They bring her to Endor, which she's not a fan of.

She's escorted into Thrawn's presence, and asks him why Endor. He tells her it's unconnected...possibly. Then he asks for proof of who she is, so she talks about meeting him during his promotion and picks out a particular dress decoration as proof.

Thrawn asks why she's here and

YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER

she blames the Ysalamiri for letting him escape. She tries to buy her way clear of the bounty with Katana fleet, and Thrawn considers just having her interrogated, then they get distracted by the Falcon's boarding party reporting in, as Mara is hurt to discover she's not the only Emperor's Hand. Aww.

He gives her eight days to bring back the location or there's no deal.

Later, he catches that Ibliss's fleet is Katana fleet, and that someone other than Karrde supplied them. He wants Ferrier to focus on Solo and Calrissian in the hope of finding the fleet.

Mara has a beacon on her ship, and the Chimaera is following her to Karrde and the fleet, in the hope of finding it either through Karrde or the Corellian. Have to admit, this doesn't look good.

Mara's got to be ready for the beacon trick, right? On the plus side, she's alive. On the other hand, Thrawn now has the scent of Katana fleet, and he's unlikely to keep his word about cancelling the deathmark anyway. So she has a few days grace and the rest of her life, but if he gets hold of that fleet, nothing very good is going to happen.

And the Emperors ghost actually did drop by to say hello. Nice to see how much he cares for his subordinates even after he's gone.