Brotherhood WW: Victorian Age

[Grand Arbiter]

(What did flat_footed say made him suspicious? I might be able to explain it if you told me.)

Unfortunately he did not elaborate. :small annoyed:


As far as convincing goes, I'd suggest you try to convince Duck999.
Unless his vote changes you will be lynched even if I change mine, which I may.

[Kish]

That wasn't aimed at just one of you.

Anyway, looks like this is going to be at least one first for me--my first time getting killed in one of these games (though I keep getting close to it), quite possibly followed by the first wolf victory I've seen.

[norman250]

Well, I was coming in to end the day and then I realized I'm 24 hours too early. Kish is current lynch target, this has been your high noon update.

[Cuthalion]

2016-09-22, 11:53 PM PST was your last update, which was roughly 47 hours ago

i don't /think/ it's noon

[norman250]

Huh, you're right. I must have misread the dates.

Day ended, update to be posted shortly.

- - - Updated - - -

Barnaby and Troy had waited outside the theatre for what felt like hours. Their last two suspects were inside now. But they couldn't wait any longer. Night was approaching, and the Ripper would be out, soon.


Inside, Barnaby was shocked to discover two Constables already grappling with the pair. One of the suspects was just a man seemingly devoid of any defining characteristics. The other... well, in the flickering of the gas lamps, Barnaby caught a glimpse of those eyes. Eyes he knew he would not and could not forget.

Barnaby raised the revolver for the last time, and fired.

**********

"So what now then?" Troy asked, as he gently blew into his tea cup."Are you really going to quit the force now that we've stopped him?"

Barnaby looked up at Troy, peering over his newspaper,"Quite so. I think I'll take up... baking."

Spoiler: summary

Show

Kish was finally stopped. They were The Ripper

Day Eleven, and the game, is over.

Winners: Londoners

Spoiler: Partial Wins

Show

Vengeance is Mine!-as the Ripper, outlive the Brotherhood Contact and the Brotherhood Survivor. Winner: Kish

Stillness no more-as the Avatar of Yin and Yang, night kill your foe, or be on their lynch wagon. Winner: Flat_footed.

And now, the obligatory survey:
Did you have fun?
Most important question goes first.

How did you find the narrations?
I thought they were more consistent than thematically than the first game, but also more glum? So, not sure if I find than an improvement, to be honest.

How did you find the setting? Would you play in a sequel game in a similar setting? I have also considered having further games continue to jump forward in time. Would you prefer that, or a return to more medieval setting, such as the first game?

Obligatory free-form comment box regarding game mechanics

I think I made the game a bit too difficult for the Seer/Fool. There was a permanently disguised wolf, a wolf disguiser, and Rasmus' rule of Scry Interference was on, making it hard to trust scries. I'm not sure how much this impacted the game actually, as almost all of Ramsus' targets died in the night, but still, I think I'll tweak this the most in future games. I liked the idea of the Hyde/Jekyll role switch option, though, and may do similar things in the future.

Other comments?

I apologize about being not being super consistent with day/night length and update times. As the game started we got really slammed at work, and it has been a challenge to manage all my personal pleasures despite this. I think the wolves actually played some really solid game, and were only denied victory because of some well placed banes and the fact that Flat_Footed decided to play both sides (and was killed for his efforts). It was an interesting game, I felt. Well done to both sides.

[Fleeing Coward]

GG, we did all we could and almost got there but having no luck with the kills cost us in the end - Duck been protected the night we targeted him and then failing 3 kills that I assume had a 33% chance of success in a row.

Did you have fun?
It was fun but also depressing at the same time once we found out how powerful the watch was after doing basically nothing wrong up until that point in the game. Flat_footed literally lost himself the game just so that town could win.

How did you find the narrations?
Narrations were good. The gloomy nature of the narrations fit well with the theme. The fact that you put in the effort for some additional flavour in wolf chat is also greatly appreciated.

How did you find the setting? Would you play in a sequel game in a similar setting? I have also considered having further games continue to jump forward in time. Would you prefer that, or a return to more medieval setting, such as the first game?
I never actually read game one so can't really comment on this.

Obligatory free-form comment box regarding game mechanics
Neutrals with the ability to play kingmaker always make for swingy games but I don't mind the ability so much. Would very much have preferred that it was announced in advance though as it completely blindsided us when we found out the team kill was watchable.

I think there's no problems with the seer been so underpowered considering the number of power roles to wolves in this game. Ripper wasn't entirely immune and Jekyll/Hyde is a trade off since been immune to scry means you can't beast. Seer and fool knew they can't entirely trust their power which means they need to trust their own judgement alot more which I think is actually a good thing rather than letting scries carry town to a win.

To make the seer more powerful you have to seriously increase the number of wolves in this game as a bane in the hands of the masons is a much more powerful tool than an unconnected baner. If it wasn't for Pelican finding us day 1 and literally scrying power roles every night, this game would have been completely one sided purely due to the extremely low number of connected wolves.

Other comments?
Well played Cuthalion especially. Before you replaced in, the town was pretty much just completely asleep at the wheel and I think we would have had a much easier time without you there. Not sure how the masons decided you were ever the correct lynch at the end there.

[Generic-Guy]

Did you have fun?
Much. i expected to die a few times, i even wrote a "Generic-guy left the city"-exit.

How did you find the narrations?
I loved them. Not to short or to long.

How did you find the setting? Would you play in a sequel game in a similar setting? I have also considered having further games continue to jump forward in time. Would you prefer that, or a return to more medieval setting, such as the first game?
Next stop: England of the WW's. Who is in the Home Defence? Who is the baker? Who is a german spy? I am.

Obligatory free-form comment box regarding game mechanics
I knew it! It wasn't the SBC who did the night kill!

Other comments?
FF did already win. But as Ying&Yang, he did keep balance. He was in his roll! Great play!
Kish, i never belived that you are a wolf until it was down to you and Culth. And even then, it was him before you.

[Fleeing Coward]

Also, I felt giving the contact a free shot was the one bad mistake that was made this game on the narrator's side.
Might have made sense thematically but mechanically, it was exremely pro-town as it helped them narrow down the pool of suspects without wasting a lynch, making the blocked kills hurt even more.

[Generic-Guy]

Sorry for the DP.

^{Tik Tik - Tik Tik -} Tik Tik

The train was driving alonge the rails. It was a stormy evening, from time to time the window got brighten up from a flash, as Thomas Miller tryed to get some sleep in his compartment, as the someone knocked at the door.

"Can i enter?" A young person whit a bright smile just opened the door and sat down in front of the strange man.

"Did you notice how full it is today?" Brought he up the obvious. "The people are fleeing out of the city. They fear that the Ripper is going to get them."

"I know. I am fleeing myself." Awnsered Thomas. "I meet many of the recent... lost... I think they are also off to get me."

The guy looked puzzled. "They? Isn't it a serial killer?"

"As far as i am concerned, they are not even from this world..." Mr Miller looked like he feared that the walls have ears, as he lowered his voice. "They are Demons. Evil spirits that take the form of man at day and wolfes at night!"

"Here, take this book, it will made sence after you read this." The obvious crasy man took a small package out of his bag and offered it the young.

After he took it and was about to leaved the compartment, he asked one question. "Who are you?"

"I am noone special, just someone who saw the sigths." replied the man.

As the person sat down at another wagon, he opened the package. The book's title readed 'The legend of Normasville'...

The train drived along the rails. It as a stormy evening as it vanished intro the darkness.

Tik Tik _{- Tik Tik - Tik Tik}

Spoiler: Summary

Show

Generic-Guy fleed the city. He was a Londoner.

Day Ten has now ended. Night Ten begins now and ends in 24 hours.

[Fleeing Coward]

Other comments?
FF did already win. But as Ying&Yang, he did keep balance. He was in his roll! Great play!
Kish, i never belived that you are a wolf until it was down to you and Culth. And even then, it was him before you.

No, he did not win. His win con is to survive until the end. His decision to help the masons was completely -EV.

[Generic-Guy]

Also, I felt giving the contact a free shot was the one bad mistake that was made this game on the narrator's side.
Might have made sense thematically but mechanically, it was exremely pro-town as it helped them narrow down the pool of suspects without wasting a lynch, making the blocked kills hurt even more.

It wasn't the SBC, it was the neutral.
The Mansons did lie to us.

- - - Updated - - -

No, he did not win. His win con is to survive until the end. His decision to help the masons was completely -EV.

Look at the last day naration. FF did win at day one.

[Fleeing Coward]

It wasn't the SBC, it was the neutral.
The Mansons did lie to us.

I don't see anywhere that says the neutral made the kill and we got flavour scrying the SBC that told us he had shot.

- - - Updated - - -

Look at the last day naration. FF did win at day one.

That is the equivalent of an honourable mention. His role clearly stated he needed to survive until the end.

[norman250]

No, it was the SBC. Neutral could only NK the other neutral. The extra vig shot was included to let the SBC have something to do if they didn't connect with the Vig before Vig died, and to be fair, while I understand the point of narrowing down suspects, it also reduced the number of day/night phases due to the vigs only hitting villagers, thus reducing the total amount of time the wolves had to lie low and not get caught.

[Fleeing Coward]

No, it was the SBC. Neutral could only NK the other neutral. The extra vig shot was included to let the SBC have something to do if they didn't connect with the Vig before Vig died, and to be fair, while I understand the point of narrowing down suspects, it also reduced the number of day/night phases due to the vigs only hitting villagers, thus reducing the total amount of time the wolves had to lie low and not get caught.

SBC was in contact with the masons. Doesn't matter that he shot a villager. The shot enabled town to not waste a lynch on the top network suspect which means wolves essentially lost another kill.

[Kish]

flat_footed, you saved London, you know. If it wasn't for your deciding to help them, they would have been lucky to get one of us before we won. As it is, I just hope I made Duck999 sweat as much as he did me when the situations were reversed in the first Brotherhood game.

Just out of curiosity, Duck999/Libro, if I'd survived the day, would my choice of who to kill have successfully gotten the one who wasn't baned? (I would have gone after Duck999.)

Oh, I officially don't object to anyone seeing our QT.

[Murska]

To be fair, I'm the one who told the Masons to kill FC and Xihirli.

[Kish]

You were dead when Wolf-Xihirli died. If you told them "you should kill Xihirli" before you died, it seems they didn't listen until flat_footed confirmed it; if you mean the first Xihirli she was neutral (though it does seem that a night kill suddenly taking out flat_footed would have cost town the game, but no one except maybe flat_footed could have known that). As for Fleeing Coward...

flat_footed knew Fleeing Coward was a wolf well before the day Fleeing Coward got killed.

[Murska]

Yeah, I dunno why they shot off-target. I just reasoned out FC, pushed a wagon on him and told the Masons that if FC flips wolf, Xihirli has to die the next day.

[Fleeing Coward]

No objections to QT been shared.

Flat_footed turning was still absolutely suicidal even if you told the masons to lynch both of us. I basically offered him myself as sacrifice from a very early stage to get in your good books so he turned an easily winnable game for himself into mutually assured destruction. Killing a neutral doesn't bring us any closer to victory but he pretty much forced our hand.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, I dunno why they shot off-target. I just reasoned out FC, pushed a wagon on him and told the Masons that if FC flips wolf, Xihirli has to die the next day.

To be fair, I was doing everything I can to be wolfy the day I got lynched. Whole plan was to get myself lynched to buy Kish some endgame credit as we were abit too closely linked due to the early game if nothing was done.

Also, if Xihirli had gotten in his switch in time (I asked him to bus before your switch), would you still have told the masons to go after Xihirli next?

- - - Updated - - -

And just so you guys realise how thankful you should be about flat_footed's decision to help town at the expense of his own win con:
Even if Xihirli still gets lynched without flat_footed's help, that night would have been a guaranteed Duck kills since we have no watchers to fear. (If Xihirli doesn't get lynched, wolves win right there as following day would have been 3 wolves, neutral, 4 villagers.)
Following night, the failed Libro kill would have been a 67% chance of success instead of 33% chance so the odds are he probably dies too.
That results in a 3 villager, 2 wolves and 1 neutral the day Pelican got lynched. In that situation, flat_footed always votes with the wolves to brute force the win.

[Murska]

The Mason bane odds were actually 100%-80%-30%.

But yeah. Thanks, flat_footed.

[Grand Arbiter]

Hopefully everyone liked Agnes's story, and is willing to comment on it. I have an ending right here.....

- - - - - - - - - - -

Agnes slept soundly the last night. When she awoke to the sun shining in the window, deep down she just knew that things were safe again.
She went down the stairs inside the house today, as her ribs still hurt from when she saved Barnaby. She did her best to show her thanks to the butler, as her human likely wasn't coming back. To stay away for weeks wasn't like Madame.

She decided to go and visit and old friend down by the Thames. Seeing him staring off into the river, Agnes sauntered up to him.
Morning Edmund
Oh, hi Agnes.
What's wrong?
Nothing...
Come on, spill. You only get all mopey and stare out at the water when something is bothering you. What's wrong?
Well,... Douglas has been missing a few days. His neighbor has been getting me food, but I'm worried after all that killing that he... Edmund trails off and lays down with sorrow in his eyes.
Oh Ed...He's one tough human, he'll be fine. If its any consolation, maybe you can come to my place until he comes back. Madame has been away too, longer than usual.
Ed perks up and swings his head toward the dock. Do you hear that?
What? Remember you hearing is still better than mine.
I swear I hear Douglas's accordion. He hasn't played it for years.
...Well, shall we go see?
Yes, let's.

Together they meander over to pier 6, where they can hear the accordion coming from a picturesque little tugboat. On its bow was the ship's name: Amos.
Upon seeing it Agnes stopped, eyes watering. Oh, my...
*pausing next to Agnes*Douglas never forgot. When he got the ship, not only did he christen it a he, but with the name of the cat that saved his life....Sorry for your loss. Douglas and I were out at sea, or we would have come.
It's fine Ed. It's more than fine. Agnes said, blinking tears away, with a soft smile on her face.
Come on, Aggie. Let's go peek through a window.

When they got to the window and looked inside. Both smiled. Douglas, sure enough, was playing his accordion to a happy tune. Then, a real surprise; Madame came into view, dancing to the tune.
*Looking at each other*Well...Huh
After what seemed like a long silence...
Shall we...? Let's

- - - - - - - - - - -

Did you have fun?
YES

How did you find the narrations?
I think the narrations were fantastic. Both in thread and in the QT

If people just keep having an issue with comprehension, just add to the rules section that lynches and night kills will be framed narratively/creatively to fit with the story.

How did you find the setting? Would you play in a sequel game in a similar setting? I have also considered having further games continue to jump forward in time. Would you prefer that, or a return to more medieval setting, such as the first game?

The setting was pretty nice. I think a few more stops in the past before Victorian England would be nice before we go ahead in time again. Maybe touch upon the spirit's origin? Or have spirits against each other.... I'll stop there, but I think there is still plenty of fun to be had with this saga before we move ahead.

Obligatory free-form comment box regarding game mechanics

I think that things were great, mechanically. A fourth mason, while it would have given us one more person to trust, probably wouldn't have helped much in the late-game. (66%>50% for the bane.)

Other comments?

Out of curiosity, how would you have tweaked the death scenes I wrote had I gotten lynched or night-killed?
Death scenes:
Lynch death:

Spoiler

Show

Agnes first noticed something was wrong when the crowd began gathering outside the door of her building. The tense frustration and anger could have been felt by anyone. From their shouting and pointing, Agnes could guess that they wanted her. The butler was there, trying to calm them down, but the gentle old soul was shoved aside by the crowd, which started entering the building.

Scared for her life, Agnes ran towards the fire escape. Leaping over the table, she scattered the papers and pictures she had gathered there about the people below. Weeks of work that now lay in disarray.

She managed to squeeze through an open window just as the crowd reached her room. Hearing tables being flipped and chairs smashed, Agnes climbed up to the roof and leaped with all her might. Barely making it across to the roof next door, she slipped inside, and down to the street where she made for the Thames.

Sprinting up to a sleeping old dog, she arouses him with haste.
Ed?...Ed?...Edmund! For the stars above will you wake up! she shrieks as she plants a paw on his nose.
*yawn* ....Aggie? Its seven in the evenning, let me go back to sleep...as Ed dozes back off…
*nudging Ed awake again and staring into his eyes*I can't Ed, I need to leave London, NOW. It's a matter of life and death. Amos saved your master by getting the constables when those men tried to kill him. I need you to return the favor.
Edmund stands up and thinks.
...There's a boat at pier six. Go wait in the hold. I'll get my master and we'll all get out of town.
...All three of us? Why?
Yes, all three of us. Whatever comes your way seems to come by mine, so we both need to leave..

Agnes wasn't seen in London again, and a fisherman and his hound were also reported missing two days later. Her house was locked up tighter than a bank vault; no-one was allowed inside. Many rumors about that night have circulated since, but it will likely remain a mystery forever...

Night-killed:

Spoiler

Show

She felt it again. That tingling sensation that she felt when she passed through that spot in the square… this time though it went down her spine. A draft from her balcony, which she shut to keep out the chill tonight told her all she needed to know.

Scared for her life, Agnes ran towards the fire escape. Leaping over the table, she scattered the papers and pictures she had gathered there about the people below, as a scything claw came within mere inches.

She managed to squeeze through an open window, which the thing smashed moments later. Hearing broken glass, Agnes climbed up to the roof and leaped with all her might. Barely making it across to the roof next door, she slipped inside, and down to the street where she made for the Thames.

Sprinting up to a sleeping old dog, she arouses him with haste.
Ed?...Ed?...Edmund! For the stars above will you wake up! she shrieks as she plants a paw on his nose.
*yawn* ....Aggie? Its three in the morning, let me go back to sleep...as Ed dozes back off…
*nudging Ed awake again and staring into his eyes*I can't Ed, I need to leave London, NOW. It's a matter of life and death. Amos saved your master by getting the constables when those men tried to kill him. I need you to return the favor.
Edmund stands up and thinks.
There's a boat at pier six. Go wait in the hold. I'll get my master and we'll all get out of town.
...All three of us? Why?
Yes, all three of us. Whatever comes your way seems to come by mine, so we both need to leave...

Agnes wasn't seen in London again, and a fisherman and his hound were also reported missing two days later. Her house was locked up tighter than a bank vault; no-one was allowed inside. Many rumors about that night have circulated since, but it will likely remain a mystery forever...

- - - - - - - - -

GG, we did all we could and almost got there but having no luck with the kills cost us in the end - Duck been protected the night we targeted him and then failing 3 kills that I assume had a 33% chance of success in a row.

Yeah, I cannot believe how long the percentage held in our favor. I expected the bane to fail a few times.

Out of curiosity, were the wolves unable to attack the same target twice in a row?

flat_footed, you saved London, you know. If it wasn't for your deciding to help them, they would have been lucky to get one of us before we won. As it is, I just hope I made Duck999 sweat as much as he did me when the situations were reversed in the first Brotherhood game.

Just out of curiosity, Duck999/Libro, if I'd survived the day, would my choice of who to kill have successfully gotten the one who wasn't baned? (I would have gone after Duck999.)

Oh, I officially don't object to anyone seeing our QT.

Yes, you would have hit the bane.
@norman250: percentage...would it have gone through?

I probably should have gone after you more in the early game. My wolf read on you turned out to be true

- - - Updated - - -

Spoiler: @ flat_footed:

Show

Thank You!

[Kish]

Yes, you would have hit the bane.

This contains both possible answers to my question. Let me try rephrasing it.

Would Duck999 have been baned the last night?

We were able to attack the same target twice in a row. We weren't able to do anything about flat_footed watching the vulnerable mason (except try to kill him, of course--hit the bane), and with only two wolves left we couldn't really afford to trade a wolf for a mason. You'll see our reasoning for attempting the kills we did when norman250 links our QT.

[Fleeing Coward]

Yeah, I cannot believe how long the percentage held in our favor. I expected the bane to fail a few times.

Out of curiosity, were the wolves unable to attack the same target twice in a row?

We could, we didn't target Duck twice in a row the first time cause we scried Ramsus as Sherlock making him top priority.

Second time, you'd have to ask the other wolves why they targeted Duck over you when we had scried you already. Flat_footed was the only sane option after the reveal since he can't watch himself. Didn't understand why they changed after 1 failure, I'd have kept it on flat_footed until he died or we're all dead as you can't let a neutral win after they pull a stupid stunt like that.

[Kish]

I figured he'd be baned and watching himself, for my part. It didn't occur to me that maybe he couldn't watch himself until later. But yes, we apparently should have gone after flat_footed, then Libro, then Duck999.

The third failed kill was Libro, not Duck. Third on our list of people who might be baned/watched, which turned out to be right for watching but wrong for baning.

Disc Lorde, of course, I killed because he was 1) confirmed town and thus someone I needed to night-kill and 2) fourth on our list of people who might be baned/watched, in the "real unlikely they'll get this far down the list" section. (I did also have a bonus win condition to kill him, which would have made me go after him if I'd ever accepted that all was lost otherwise, but I wouldn't have made a full win for the wolves less likely for that.)

[Grand Arbiter]

Apologies for unclear phrasing.
Duck999 would have been baned.


EDIT: Can the neutrals disclose role details now?

[Kish]

Oh, well then. You would probably have won anyway. And if that means, as I suspect, that flat_footed lied about being baned the night Disc Lorde died to trick me into bumping my "the masons probably baned X tonight" counter, it worked and he would (80% chance) have saved town yet again if we'd gotten that far.

[Grand Arbiter]

flat_footed was telling the truth. We did bane him.

[Kish]

Not so devious then. Too bad. Do we get to see the masons' QT?

[Grand Arbiter]

Waiting on Duck999.

[Duck999]

flat_footed, you saved London, you know. If it wasn't for your deciding to help them, they would have been lucky to get one of us before we won. As it is, I just hope I made Duck999 sweat as much as he did me when the situations were reversed in the first Brotherhood game.

I'm not sure how much I made you sweat over that decision, but this one was tough as well. I had been figuring it out during the previous day phase as well, however, so it wasn't all focused on the last day.

I'm fine sharing the mason QT.
Note that I pointed out the wolves best choice would be to kill flat_footed, but still didn't bane him just in case. I should clearly listen to the voice in my head more often.

Poorly Formatted Survey:

The answer to all the questions is a positive one: Fun game, good narrations, would play again, etc.