Warhammer 40K Tabletop XXIX: Ro, Ro, Ro Your Boute

[Forum Explorer]

Well, here's what I came up with...

Black Legion, CAD
(W) Abaddon the Despoiler - 265 Points

Chosen (x10); x4 Meltaguns, Flamer, Melta Bombs, Slaanesh, Excess - 285 Points
Cultists (x10); Flamer - 55 Points

Black Legion, Cyclopia Cabal
Sorcerer; [Stave], ML3, Spell Familiar - 125 Points
Sorcerer; [Stave], ML3, Spell Familiar - 125 Points
Sorcerer; [Stave], ML3, Spell Familiar - 125 Points

World Eaters, CAD
Chaos Lord; Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Jump Pack, Talisman of Burning Blood - 145 Points

Cultists (x10); Flamer, Khorne - 75
Cultists (x10); Flamer, Khorne - 75

Raptors (x10); x2 Meltaguns, Melta Bombs - 205 Points

Total: 1480 Points
[Everything has Veterans]

A Heldrake for taste is 170. Although you do have 370 Points for a Renegade Knight. I thought about putting in some Terminators for Turn 1 Deep Strike, but that only happens in a Speartip. I think this is pretty close to the 'best' Turn 1 Soulswitch on Chaos Marines.

What was that for?

[Cheesegear]

What was that for?

Electrodisplacement is currently b0rked on Marines because Marines have Drop Pods (Tigurius will be switching with Guilliman at least once).
Soulswitch, the same Power, is less good on Chaos Marines 'cause they don't have Drop Pods.

So, basically trying to break Soulswitch.

[Forum Explorer]

Electrodisplacement is currently b0rked on Marines because Marines have Drop Pods (Tigurius will be switching with Guilliman at least once).
Soulswitch, the same Power, is less good on Chaos Marines 'cause they don't have Drop Pods.

So, basically trying to break Soulswitch.

Ah.

In which case, can you manage to put any of the sorcerers on Bikes? Is that even possible?

[Cheesegear]

In which case, can you manage to put any of the sorcerers on Bikes? Is that even possible?

Sure. There's 370 Points to play with. If anything though, the Sorcerers would want Jump Packs though, so Abaddon can re-roll his Charge.

[Forum Explorer]

Sure. There's 370 Points to play with. If anything though, the Sorcerers would want Jump Packs though, so Abaddon can re-roll his Charge.

If the whole squad doesn't need them to get the reroll, then how about 1 jump pack and 2 bikes? Then they can move up 12 and reroll the charge to get in.

[Cheesegear]

Then they can move up 12 and reroll the charge to get in.

Who cares about Move 12" when you already have Raptors with a Talisman?
Movement on Abaddon's unit before Soulswitch doesn't matter. Since you can't move after the Psychic Phase, a Bike is completely pointless. Basically, all the Sorcerers need Jump Packs to re-roll Charges because you don't know which one of them is going to roll Soulswitch first.

Do you just not know how Elecrodisplacement/Soulswitch works?

[bluntpencil]

I've never really understood why Chaos Marines don't get Drop Pods and loyalists don't get Autocannons for Devastators. Is it just an arbitrary ruling to make them look/play different?

[Cheesegear]

Is it just an arbitrary ruling to make them look/play different?

Affirmative.

[Vaz]

It's Super Expensive but Fist of Khorne gets Kharbdys DPA.

[Wraith]

A little bit more has been unveiled about Grand Master Voldus.

240pts and NOT a Lord of War.
Same statline and equipment as a GK Grand-Master.
ML3 Psyker, so he's a Grand Master AND Librarian, essentially.
He generates an extra power from Sanctic, and can choose his powers from all of the Grey Knight AND Angels of Death tables.
His Daemon Hammer strikes at Initiative.

No word yet on how he Force Multiplies (because of course he will), though I personally am betting either on Deep Strike-related antics, similar to the Nemesis Strike Force, or some kind of army-wide anti-damon/psyker defence, called The Great Aegis or something. Absolutely no justification for this, just a hunch.

....And so far, knowing all of this, everyone else I've seen talking about Voldus is saying that he sucks. Because being ML3 with an extra power and an At Initiative S8 AP2 Force Weapon isn't nearly as good as the other Triumverate characters. Jesus. H. Christ.

[Drasius]

A little bit more has been unveiled about Grand Master Voldus.

240pts and NOT a Lord of War.
Same statline and equipment as a GK Grand-Master.
ML3 Psyker, so he's a Grand Master AND Librarian, essentially.
He generates an extra power from Sanctic, and can choose his powers from all of the Grey Knight AND Angels of Death tables.
His Daemon Hammer strikes at Initiative.

No word yet on how he Force Multiplies (because of course he will), though I personally am betting either on Deep Strike-related antics, similar to the Nemesis Strike Force, or some kind of army-wide anti-damon/psyker defence, called The Great Aegis or something. Absolutely no justification for this, just a hunch.

....And so far, knowing all of this, everyone else I've seen talking about Voldus is saying that he sucks. Because being ML3 with an extra power and an At Initiative S8 AP2 Force Weapon isn't nearly as good as the other Triumverate characters. Jesus. H. Christ.

He sucks because an ML3 libby is 135 points (+5 for a force thunderhammer) and Draigo is 245 points and comes with EW, the only stormshield that the GK's own and Gate. Is an I5 force thunderhammer super handy? Yes, yes it is, but is it worth 240 points? Probably not, especially when you're T4 with no EW and only a 2+/5++ to protect yourself. The stat bump from libby to grand master is 75 points and generally seen as not remotely close to worth it, especially in an already expensive elite army like GK.

$10 says he won't force multiply at all and their new formation is trash because it requires 2 units of paladins and 2 units of terminators (and an ML3 libby IIRC) but you're almost certainly giving up ObSec on the termies and nobody takes paladins for the same reason Voldus is being called overcosted - multi-wound T4 isn't worth the price you have to pay. In fact, the only non-HQ multi-wound T4 models that aren't garbage that I can think of off the top of my head are khorne dogs.

[Bobby Baratheon]

Well, being a ML3 psyker does kind of give him some force multiplication built in. It does kind of seem like he'll just be a beatstick, though.

[Cheesegear]

Well, being a ML3 psyker does kind of give him some force multiplication built in. It does kind of seem like he'll just be a beatstick, though.

Standing in the same box as Guilliman, I feel like that's really pointless.

[bluntpencil]

Interesting: Cypher can now be taken in any Imperial or CSM Primary Detachment... that means he can benefit from Detachment special rules. Anywhere this is useful?

[Bobby Baratheon]

Standing in the same box as Guilliman, I feel like that's really pointless.

Agreed. It does seem like he'll end up being pretty superfluous. Cypher probably at least unlocks some cool Fallen shenanigans.

As far as Cypher's usefulness goes: having infiltrate, shrouded and hit and run seems like it could probably be abused somehow. That could potentially make for a nasty unit. I'm a little too tired at the moment to think of anything beyond sticking him in with some Alpha Legion goons or perhaps more interestingly with some Sicarian Infiltrators.

EDIT: As far as Voldus goes, that LR level cost kind of seems to torpedo him for any remotely competitive games, but I think it could be fun to play around with in casual games. He could make for the lynchpin of a pretty nasty melee unit with the right psychic powers (again, in a casual setting). I tend to like psyker HQs anyway so it might be fun to give him a spin.

[bluntpencil]

Am I the only one hoping to model a badass Black Shield to count as Cypher? Shrouded, hit and run Kill Teams? Cool.

[Forum Explorer]

Who cares about Move 12" when you already have Raptors with a Talisman?
Movement on Abaddon's unit before Soulswitch doesn't matter. Since you can't move after the Psychic Phase, a Bike is completely pointless. Basically, all the Sorcerers need Jump Packs to re-roll Charges because you don't know which one of them is going to roll Soulswitch first.

Do you just not know how Elecrodisplacement/Soulswitch works?

Nope. I don't have those books. I'm guessing it swaps the position of a unit with another unit, but I wasn't sure which unit was doing the swapping. (Or if the Sorcerers all have to be in the same unit)

[Vaz]

I'm back in Brisbane on Thursday guys when I can respond better to posts. Running through to Sunday, if anyone has any questions regarding 30K i'm more than happy too. Also have managed to source a copy of Inferno which the GF is shipping out as we speak and should recieve by friday latest.

Cheers!

[Gauntlet]

A little bit more has been unveiled about Grand Master Voldus.
He generates an extra power from Sanctic, and can choose his powers from all of the Grey Knight AND Angels of Death tables.

If that's "he can choose his power rather than rolling for them" he'll be just as silly as Sevrin Loth was a year or so ago. Guaranteed Electrodisplacement / Shifting Worldscape / Gate of Infinity, with options for Cleansing Flame and all the other good-but-situational powers is.. pretty nice. If he can be protected from getting oneshot before he gets any powers off (Void Shield Generator?), I'm sure he'll end up as the core of something good.

[Cheesegear]

I'm guessing it swaps the position of a unit with another unit

The Psyker's unit swaps places with any friendly unit within 24". Either of the switched units may Charge after doing so. If the unit that was switched was engaged in Melee, the switched in unit is now engaged, instead (i.e; Teleport into combat). I typically use Electrodisplacement to swap Mephiston with Lysander, or Mephiston with...Anyone, really. It doesn't matter. Teleporting into combat with a proper combat Psyker (Mephiston, GKL with Thunder Hammer, etc.) allows you to say "*Teleports Behind You* Nothing Personnel, kid." with a Katana Force Weapon.

Point is, you only need one unit to move fast. Because once the Psychic Phase starts, your 'slow' unit (Abaddon, Bullgryns, Inquisitor Battle Conclaves and soon, Gulliman) moves up to 24" and can still Charge afterwards. Which makes Melee super viable if you have a fast unit that you can Soulswitch with. Dreadknights and Interceptors are currently favourites, because the turn after they're teleported back to their DZ, they can Shunt Move 30" back to where they were.

It's like Gate of Infinity except more reliable and also more better. It's WC2 though.

[LeSwordfish]

I bet Voldus would be a pretty good Electrodisplacement target - teleport him into fights where an Init5 hammer would be useful, teleport him OUT of fights he could lose (like any that want an invulnerable save).

I love almost all of these recent models... but Voldus is the only one reminding me how much I love Grey Knight Terminators, and how much fun a small GK list would be. God dammit.

[hamishspence]

I bet Voldus would be a pretty good Electrodisplacement target - teleport him into fights where an Init5 hammer would be useful, teleport him OUT of fights he could lose (like any that want an invulnerable save).

Doesn't he, as a Grand Master, have an Iron Halo, giving him a 4+ invul save in addition to the standard 5+ invul save all Terminators get?

[LeSwordfish]

I guess so, but that's not going to help much if he can't take something with his hammer and it gets to strike back with it's hammer - unless he's Eternal Warrior, he only needs to lose one.

[Drasius]

I'm back in Brisbane on Thursday guys when I can respond better to posts. Running through to Sunday, if anyone has any questions regarding 30K i'm more than happy too. Also have managed to source a copy of Inferno which the GF is shipping out as we speak and should recieve by friday latest.

Cheers!

If you could run your eye over the following GotCK list, it would be much appreciated:

Spoiler

Show

Basically, this is an effort to put cool stuff on the table and make it work, but thoughts on how it can be improved are what I'm after. The main issue I keep having is what to do with a praetor and the GotCK mostly solves this by letting him join a Sekhmet unit and DS in instead of having to either go down the spartan road or buy a non-psychic command squad so he can fit in a raider. I definately want to keep the Vets, the ASM and the Venators and keeping the Support squad and the castellax golems would be nice too but secondary to the vets/ASM/venators. I do kinda like the fast, elite strikeforce theme that I've got though as I think it suits the Sons fairly well and I've tried to stay away from the traditional gunline style that many are seemingly leaning towards.

Main opponents will be Iron Hands, Mechanicum, Raven Guard, Sons of Horus with some Deathguard and Imperial Fists too.

HQ
250 - Praetor, ML3, Tartaros, Iron Halo, Litanies, Paragon Blade [Raptora] {GotCK Rite}
145 - Librarian, ML2, Artificer, Refractor, Litanies [Corvidae]
100 - Damocles Command Rhino

Elite
60 - Apothecary, Jump Pack [Pavoni]
285 - 10x Vets, ML1, Asphyx, 2x Power weapons, Artificer, Fist, Rhino [Corvidae] {Marksmen}
285 - 10x Vets, ML1, Asphyx, 2x Power weapons, Artificer, Fist, Rhino [Corvidae] {Marksmen}

Troops
275 - 5x Sekhmet, Tartaros, 2x Chainfist [Raptora]
275 - 5x Sekhmet, Tartaros, 2x Chainfist [Raptora]
250 - 10x ASM, Combat Shields, 2x Power Weapons, Artificer, Fist [Raptora]
220 - 9x Support, Rotor Cannons, Asphyx, Rhino [Corvidae]

Fast
195 - 3x Javelins, MM/Cyclones

Heavy
270 - 2x Castellax-Achae
190 - Sicaran Venator
190 - Sicaran Venator

2990/3000

Probably stuff a power sword onto the apothecary with the remaining 10 points.

The Damocles will have to hide behind the Sicarans to survive T1, but it gives a huge amount of options to the force, since the HQ's, Sekhmet, ASM's and Jav's can all DS if desired while the Vets and Jav's can outflank. Praetor goes with a squad of Sekhmet and rolls Bio, Libby goes with the Supports and rolls Div and hopes for Misfortune. ASM run around and bully soft targets while being able to hold out for a turn or two until support arrives, Vets are midfield troubleshooters who can bully as well as hopefuly another 2 chances to roll misfortune for the rotorcannons. Venators and Javs are anti tank, Castellax are a distraction carnifex. 4 rolls on Div is also 4 chances at Scriers to give me a re-roll on reserves along with a +/- 1 from the Damocles to help me control when things come in.

I would have loved to put a pair of Contemptors and a handful more ASM in there too, but points are tight and something has to go. Is it worth losing all/some of the chainfists for combis so the sekhmet can pewpew the turn they come down or should they be running to minimise blasts? I'm thinking that virtually all power/force weapons should be Axes - Is there any reason to go swords or staves/maces? I would be against some Mechanicum, so staves/maces wouldn't go to waste entirely, but the majority of the time it's going to be other marines and I've got some nice conversions in mind for the axes.

[Blackhawk748]

I guess so, but that's not going to help much if he can't take something with his hammer and it gets to strike back with it's hammer - unless he's Eternal Warrior, he only needs to lose one.

I feel like it would be really weird if he wasn't EW, but i guess its possible.

[lord_khaine]

I feel like it would be really weird if he wasn't EW, but i guess its possible.

Isnt there a lot of models people would say should have had EW, that didnt. ?
Prince Yriel in particular comes to mind.

[Drasius]

I feel like it would be really weird if he wasn't EW, but i guess its possible.

Isnt there a lot of models people would say should have had EW, that didnt. ?
Prince Yriel in particular comes to mind.

Voldorus or Voldorius or whatever isn't EW.

Kharn is another that constantly gets brought up as should be EW, but isn't (which is silly if you think about it, he's died a bunch of times, it just doesn't stick). Same for Lucious and Ahriman, How those T4 3+ guys haven't eaten a krak missile or powerfist in 10,000 years I have no idea. Though Lucy is in the same boat as Kharn as he's also died a bunch only to no-sell it 5 minutes later. At least Ahriman can have a disk now for that sweet, sweet T5 (and +1 attack).

Daemon princes are another common one, especially since they had it taken away (along with every other daemon unit, but nobody cared about it on stuff like bloodletters), though you could make bloodcrushers a success overnight if you gave them back EW.

[LeSwordfish]

Lucius, Kharn, and other Eternals really just need a specialcool resurrection rule. Like, Lucius' killer should make a Leadership test at the start of each turn after killing him, and if they fail you replace that model with Lucius.

[Wraith]

If that's "he can choose his power rather than rolling for them"

Not as far as I know - I meant that he can choose which tables he rolls on. What you're suggesting might yet happen, as that's pretty much the only way he would be considered on par with Cypher or Guilleman, but I sincerely doubt it.

[LeSwordfish]

Have I missed Cypher's rules? Has there been a leak of them I've not seen?