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Thread: Erfworld 78, Page 72
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2007-09-23, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Wow.
So full of emotions and tension.
Really really one of the best pages yet.
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2007-09-23, 01:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
I agree. You know what that means? This isn't just some action-comic. It's a deep, involved story with real characters. Some good action, too, but that's not the focus.
EDIT:
"Have you looked at this scan carefully,
Doctor? At his face? It's love, in point of fact."
k, no, not love, i just was was reminded of Serenity. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the look on Parson;s face is one of compassion, not concern for his own well-being.Last edited by fendrin; 2007-09-23 at 01:25 AM.
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2007-09-23, 01:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
I used to regularly play a guy like that. I'd deliberately force queen exchanges, because I was a lot more effective without my queen than he was without his, and it was a lot easier to nail his queen if I was willing to expend my own to do it. And he knew this, and so was overprotective of his queen... which meant that I could depend on him to turn down opportunities to initiate the exchange himself, and to do whatever it took to extract his queen from danger. And that meant that I could make him dance like a little puppet by threatening her.
I almost always beat him.
I wasn't really sure what this post had to do with Erfworld when I started typing it, but I think I see a relevant observation or two in there now.
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2007-09-23, 01:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
That was pretty cool. I see a different side of both Parson and Wanda in this strip.
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2007-09-23, 01:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Okay, persons have been saying that "break the link" line means that he is dissolving the link permanently. This is not so. After Ansoms turn, its night, he is basically switching off the television now. Thats how Misty was capable of being an individual at night, when she first met Parson.
Also, Stanley is being perfectly fair here. They went ahead with the battleplan, A) without consulting him B) Without using the best tactics (Cloaking-Which Stanley may have used in the past) C) and FAILING.
A well thought out plan is still a failure if it doesnt work. This didnt work, ergo, its a failure.
40% of the enemy siege with minimal loses-Success.
40% of the enemy siege and losing half of your strongest units and 3 of your warlords- FAILURE. Magnifyed by the fact that Gobwin Knob does not have many units to lose. This attack only succeeded in slowing Ansom down, for maybe a turn at best.
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2007-09-23, 02:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Prediction:
Spoiler
Erfworld: The Battle for Gobwin Knob, ends three strips from now. Erfworld: (Insert next storyarc title here) begins with #76.
Catatar made for me many years ago ... pretty sure by banjo1985
Werewolf Awards: 'Best Narration: Helgraf'
Rabbit says stuff that makes me blush.
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2007-09-23, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
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2007-09-23, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Here we see Wanda get very mad over Parson talking to Misty. she then stte she has to keep Stanely from disbanding him. Just talking to Misty broke the link, a croakable action.
Here Sizemore asks if the Eyemancers were able to link up again. Given the tactical advantage of it and the potential for it not to work, I can't see Stanley 'switching it off' at night. He may be a Tool, but he's not a total moron.
Here we learn that just talking to the individual casters can break the link, and that breaking the link can lead to the croaking of a caster. Definitely not something to do lightly.
Here we learn that you need a lookamancer in the stack to veil, something they can't do with the Eyemancer's linked.Last edited by fendrin; 2007-09-23 at 02:33 AM. Reason: spelling
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2007-09-23, 02:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Woah. I haven't felt this bummed since Remy was trapped in the cage after Linguini threw him out. Seriously!
Like Order of the Stick four weeks ago, Erfworld seems to have hit the bottom of the barrel for the protagonists. The plan/spell/relationship/dwagon fleet is completely shot, and none of Stanley's underlings have a scrap of influence with him anymore. Even if any of them came up with a failproof plan, Stanley won't let them anywhere near trying it. Short of Titan ex Machina, it looks like Gobwin Knob is falling for sure.
But the thing about the bottom of the barrel is that there's nowhere to go but up. I hope."They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2007-09-23, 02:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Very big page. Lots of plot.
Stanley doesn't trust anyone. Wanda has an emotional breakdown. Stanley announces his impending leave and keeps anyone from convincing his otherwise. Huge plot.
I really don't see him as compassionate or thoughtful, though. He simply can't do anything with them.
I'm still undecided on the breaking of the link. We know that the linkup and the board are the only intelligence that GK can get. Should he leave, Stanley wouldn't want Ansom to have that asset. Veiling requires that he break the link. I can see that.
It would also be nearly impossible to re-link them in any meaningful amount of time. It'll keeps Parson from executing any sort of Ender's Game, and leaves him in the dark about enemy troop movement. Really, it's the Tool's revenge for everyone he felt him. So, they and the capital become bait, and Stanley waits for the moment to take Ansom out.
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2007-09-23, 03:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
nice drama strip :\
we all knew that stanley dwagons were the only things that kept gobwin knob intact of the attacks
now with 40% siege and something like an huge stack of leadership bonuses, it's passable for stanley to do something with the arkenhammer, just because is the only conclusion to this deafeat :|
the other conclusion isSpoiler
1. take artifact from ansom
2. uncroack dwagons
3. ???
4. PROFIT
also, in matter of second he lost the perfect warlord and one of the best caster he had, it's not like he's gonna run into ansom stack and kick his ass without dwagons
Spoileroff course, he could send hamster into battle, who know, he may have even greater lead bonus than anyone on the other side. tides of battles constantly changes :PLast edited by Mystyco; 2007-09-23 at 03:17 AM.
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2007-09-23, 04:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
I just realised - the last two panels are a tip-of-the-hat to ESB:
Princess Leia: Send all units south to protect the fighters...
Then get to your transports! (Horribly paraphrased)
Gobwin Knob just went from Yavin to Hoth, and Stanley is leaving. No question about it.
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2007-09-23, 04:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
I agree Ag:
It doesn't seem like this story has any realistic way of coming back from the brink.
Unlike OOTS where there is still all kinds of hope for the future for our protagonists, in Erfworld, it really just doesn't look realistic to have any hope. As I said before, with this loss, the battle for Goblin Knob really IS over. The coalition now has overwhelming firepower, air superiority and unity. Before it had only the first of those three.
Stanley recognizes this. So why fight a battle which you know you will lose regardless? Stanley is likely going to take his dragons and fly off. That was his backup plan before and likely still is. So don't expect Parson to get any dragon help if he decides to continue the fight. Which makes his position doubly hopeless.
So what does that mean for the strip? Have the writers decided to bring it to a close? It seems like things are coming to a close for sure.
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2007-09-23, 04:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
It's fairly clear to me. Wanda is in love with Jillian and she thought Jillian loved her back. It's a masochistic dominant/submissive kind of love, but it's still love. They both enjoyed it. They both enjoyed each other. And they were both extremely happy with each other. If they hadn't been on opposite sides of the war they'd probably be inseperable, as demonstrated by Jillian going out of her way to ensure she was repeatedly "captured". Or so Wanda seems to have thought.
Wanda truly beleived that Jillian could never betray her or her cause because of that love. She trusted Jillian and Jillian's love completely. That was the only "spell" ever cast on Jillian you know - love. It was never actually a magic spell of any kind. When it turned out that Jillian didn't love her so much and that, actually, she wasn't loyal to Wanda at all... Well that hurt her like it would hurt anyone in that position.
When Jillian chose Evil Kneival -er, Ansom - over Wanda it floored Wanda, just like it would floor anybody in love. Wanda truly thought she had something special but in the end it seems she was just...used.
Love is cruel. Unrequited love is even crueler.
(Incidentally, to many people that "sick" is actually rather normal - be careful. Bondage and S&M as sexual practices is far more common than some might think. You yourself might not be into it and think it strange but don't attack people who like that sort of thing. It's the internet. Half the people on this board might be doing the very same thing for all you know.)Last edited by Scutatus; 2007-09-23 at 05:18 AM.
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2007-09-23, 05:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Liked this one, though I seriously don't understand a lot of people here. To you peeps with chess analogies: yeah, Stanley lost his queen. What you forget is he has already lost almost everything but his king and a bishop plus a rook already (maybe a few pawns more). The enemy still has the full board. In that case, loosing your queen IS loosing the game for sure.
Parson ultimately failed. His plan was way too risky from the beginning, and the way he relied on his blind luck never made sense to me. If he had been my advisor during said chess game, now would be the time to get rid of him - even if for the time being - indeed. He might have potential, but he isn't much yet. And Stanley doesn't have any more time left now, not to defend GK.
Goblin Kob no longer has any assetts to mount a viable defence. Half the dragons were wiped in a turn - the other half can be wiped by Arson simply attacking them, then. Only with more air support. Stanley could be thick, but he isn't THAT stupid. They have lost, and GK will ultimately fall. I mean seriously, 25:1 it was before; they lost half the dragons. What does that make it? 40:1 (considering other forces are intact)? He should pack the dragons, take a foolamancer to veil himself while running, and hit the road.Last edited by Ravenlord; 2007-09-23 at 05:11 AM.
There is no such thing as "innocence", only degrees of guilt.
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2007-09-23, 05:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Is it just me or did this strip lose its cajones right about the time the one guy got married. Coincidence?
Anyways, if Plaid is leaving/about to die, then what reason is there for the coalition to keep attacking? Sure one can be written in but methinks it will smell rather lamety-forced. Alternatively, if they don't keep attacking, then where is the battle for G.K.? Since when did Plaid start talking like an adult? Which character's story is this anyways? So many questions. If I had my druthers the makers of this strip would take a mulligan, rewind to gumps in the forest, and not be left facing such a loomingly large task to get their mojo back. For a while I cared, I really did, felt very interested, but it's been dwindling away which is a true shame.
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2007-09-23, 05:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Some thoughts before I sleep...
Jillian only seemed to enjoy it some of the time. It seemed she enjoyed being dominated, but she didn't enjoy being used. Wanda did both, and the two are very different.
If 'love' was the only spell Wanda ever cast on Jillian, are we to assume that the Archons can detect 'love'? And that moreover, 'love detection' falls under Charlie's fees for 'magical security?'
If 'love' was the only spell Wanda ever cast on Jillian, are we to assume that Sizemore was being purposefully and uncharacteristically obtuse to Parson when he couched Wanda's control over Jillian in spell-like terms?
Are we to assume that when someone rejects Wanda secretly manipulating her for her own ends above and beyond the context of interpersonal relationship that it is -Wanda- being used? That's a very strange definition of 'use.' Jillian used Wanda the same way fish use a rod and reel.
Without trying to get into the deeper waters of psychology and relationships, in ANY healthy relationship, there is mutual respect, even in relationships between dominating and submissive people. I have seen very little evidence that Wanda ever respected Jillian. The fact that she secretly used her to attempt to bring down someone Jillian was in love with (Ansom) and how Jillian reacted when she realized just how cynically Wanda had manipulated her shows me that Wanda really doesn't understand what respect is, at least in the context of Jillian, AND that Jillian wasn't 'going along with things' with just a wink and a nod. She may have harbored secret suspicions, but when push came to shove, she showed her true colors, and her anger at how Wanda manipulated her into becoming just another 'doll.'
Just because Wanda and Jillian's 'relationship', such as it was, was seemingly a D/S one does NOT make it automatically immune from being abusive. There was no consensual sharing/surrendering of control. Wanda kept the control all to herself, and when she lost it, it broke her (at least temporarily), and that in and of itself is further indication of just how unhealthy the abuse was, for both of them.
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2007-09-23, 06:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Here are a few thoughts, for what they are worth:
1) I think Hamster was risking things with his plan because i) it was the only way to actually 'win' something and get the initiative back, and ii) I get the feeling that he is used to winning. He plays A LOT and he is good. He is used to victory and with Wanda's spell, he felt that this was the way forward. Every other option was less good.
It doesn't mean that his plan was even 90% likely to win - he just felt it was the best shot, and he subconsciously expects to win. He is used to being in possession of complete knowledge of the rules and he is what we call in Britain 'an anorak' - a nerd. In possession of all the details of game mechanisms, I suspect that Hamster in 'the real world' was almost always a winner. I think that while this was probably not the first time he has lost something, certainly, he usually wins when he finds openings and plans enough. His problems are complicated by a far-from-complete knowledge of how the world works.
2) As suggested, he may be a Titan - it would be a good plot point. I know he didn't know what the Arkentools were (still waiting for the Arkensaw to turn up), but if Titan means 'those who build worlds' and the tools are what they figuratively/actually used, then he IS a DM, and they ARE in a game world... As noted in an earlier post God-mode may exist for him.
3) Someone noted all the strategies used. It will be interesting to see how the main bad guy characters recover from this setback, and having Ansom's alliance not only fail to capitalise on their victory but perhaps even fall apart BECAUSE they sense victory in sight might be a way forward. Divide and Conquer or Diplomacy may be good bets still.
Fun...Caractacus
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2007-09-23, 06:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
I don't make the crazy rules, I just twist them to my purpose
"...the Perilious Path of Crushing Doom"
" Please, tell me it is actually filled with cute, fuzzy bunnies and they just named it that to be ironic."
Note to Self:
If you ever happen to doubt the Giant again remember the "Ghost-martyrs of the Sapphire guard
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2007-09-23, 06:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
He didn't have much choice. Remember, Parson ultimately was making decisions against fighting a siege outnumbered 25 to 1. There's only so much even the best tactics can do. (Lee / Jackson were only outnumbered 2 to 1 at Chancellorsville, carried out one of the best executed flanking manoeuvers, and still had comparable casualties.
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2007-09-23, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Oh my god... Stanley is my last boss. What a stupid beotch.
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2007-09-23, 07:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
After reading the entire thread, a few things occur to me.
1. Stanley didn't revoke Parson's or Wanda's command ranks. They would still be able to command small groups of units(Ender's Game reference: a 'Toon', perhaps), and I would think that Parson would be an absolute wizard at small-unit tactics as well as being good at large-unit strategy.
2. Stanley is probably getting out of town. If one of the Trimancer is a Foolamancer, it's probably going with Stanley for veiling.
3. Parson's leadership bonus is known. See Parson's Klog page 4.
4. As far as I know, Parson is still the chief warlord, still 2nd in command to Stanley. He may be able to exploit that, maybe modify some of the tool's orders so that they work better.Last edited by Ripsaw; 2007-09-23 at 07:25 AM.
Power Corrupts. Absolute power is actually kinda cool...*Evil Laugh*
"Beatings, beatings, beatings, beatings...and more beatings" -- Jillian Michaels, The Biggest Loser
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2007-09-23, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Let's say Stanley grabs the AHammer, veils and goes all challange on Ansom.
either wins and runs
or loses.
Will the Alliance still want to destroy GK?
Will Parson & Co be the new lords of GK?
so many questions... I like this page very much.Orc Girl Avatar by Yeril !
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2007-09-23, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Er, Wanda clearly cast a spell on Jillian, and its effects are visible when they next appear (note the "sparklies" around Jillian's head).
That said, it does seem that the "underpinnings of this spell" that made Wanda so confident that it would hold (and so unwilling to objectively consider the risk that it wouldn't?) are based on Jillian's emotions. Note that she suggested that "both of us get out of here" before Wanda began the torture session or cast the spell. I think that gave Wanda confirmation that the emotional "underpinnings" were in place, and she could proceed with the spell. ("When Prisoner says 'the very easy way'? She gets 'the very hard way.'" was a literal, if oblique, statement of this.)
Also, considering that she's a rough and tough barbarian warlord, she didn't take much persuasion to go from smart-mouthing to "Yes, Mistress." (Admittedly, Wanda wrote the book on that. ) My read is that this submissive aspect is what Jillian was referring to when she said "I like it."
So, my read is that Jillian enjoyed being submissive to Wanda, and was emotionally bonded to her to the point of proposing that they run away together (to save Wanda from what seemed to be the imminent doom of her side). It is unclear whether this situation arose out of a pre-war relationship or out of Wanda cultivating a submissive streak/Stockholm Syndrome effect/whatever that emerged during early interrogation sessions. (I lean toward the latter, since it has at least some evidence in its favor: we know that Jillian has been captured and "escaped" several times in the past).
The problem is that the relationship was highly exploitive on Wanda's part; she was using Jillian as a source of intel and (now) as a mole. My interpretation of Jillian's breakdowns (when the session ended and when she found herself unable to rationalize her way through the encounter with the wounded dwagons) is that she was reacting to being used and manipulated into betrayal. In the former case, obviously, the spell held and she (superficially) recovered. In the latter case, the spell broke -- Jillian is now aware of how Wanda used her and she is lashing out angrily (I think she'd be pleased if she could see how the sight of her "dolls" being broken affected Wanda). If she loved Wanda before, that just made her all the more enraged at having her feelings abused and used against her.
When Jillian chose Evil Kneival -er, Ansom - over Wanda it floored Wanda, just like it would floor anybody in love. Wanda truly thought she had something special but in the end it seems she was just...used.
Love is cruel. Unrequited love is even crueler.
(Incidentally, to many people that "sick" is actually rather normal - be careful. Bondage and S&M as sexual practices is far more common than some might think. You yourself might not be into it and think it strange but don't attack people who like that sort of thing. It's the internet. Half the people on this board might be doing the very same thing for all you know.)Last edited by SteveMB; 2007-09-23 at 07:53 AM.
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2007-09-23, 08:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Parson had no other choice. Ansom had 25 to 1 numerical superiority, and 4 times the needed troops to destroy GK. If he did nothing, GK would have fallen anyway. The only reason why he even had a -chance- with the dwagons is because the Alliance air forces were diverted to pick up Jillian. Parson had 2 turns to try to make a difference (one to exploit the hole, the second to beat feet).
And it was a gambit Stanley would never have taken. Stanley's idea of a fight is to go into it slugging and wait until the end. Hit and run, which is what Parson did, would never have figured into Stanley's tactics.
Any ground units, against the mass of Ansom's column, would have been ineffectual. They'd be pounded into dust. And Stanley's tactic of 'enter hex, stay until we win/lose' would have meant fewer siege destroyed and more dwagons croaked.
Goblin Kob no longer has any assetts to mount a viable defence.
Half the dragons were wiped in a turn - the other half can be wiped by Arson simply attacking them, then. Only with more air support.
He should pack the dragons, take a foolamancer to veil himself while running, and hit the road.May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2007-09-23, 08:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Wow. Amazing comic. Just wow.
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2007-09-23, 08:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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2007-09-23, 08:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
Wow. Not much to discuss here. I also feel bad for Wanda.
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2007-09-23, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
While I can understand Wanda's reaction ("She chose... Ansom... over me? Why? What does he have I can't give her?"), it's kind of mitigated by the fact Wanda's been manipulating Jillian all this time. Hasn't really been giving Jillian FULL choice in the matter; Ansom did. He never pushed Jillian, never manipulated her, always let her decide for herself what she wanted from him...
May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2007-09-23, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Erfworld 78, Page 72
I Don't think you guys are taking this whole tool of the ancients things serioussly enough.
Stanley can't book it and keep his world view in tact.
Huge Leadership +artifact bonuses, may only be cancled (somewhat) by other huge leadership and artifact bonuses. (I'm represuming stanley's leadership whiich i presume is lower, is offset by being attuned to arkenhammer), defeating the injured stack doesn't mean another twice as many (ring and gk dragons) with substantive bonus's (arkenhammer with dragons would seem to work better than say pigeons althought i don't know) that's gonna lead to a manno on manno fight between ansom and stan which also would seem to make Stanley happy ( Big epicishlook to it). I doubt the marbits or crap golems are gonna be moved, but i see DnD movie ending to this (somethign about dragons and unused poptential or some such crap)On the first day of Dnd my dm gave to me
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