If it has stats... (Challenge to the playground)

[Erik Vale]

One more try and then I quit: Wish for scroll of CL "Yes" Holy Word. Shapechange into Lilitu. Use scroll next to it.

It goes unconscious for a while. Now what?

I'd actually really rudisplork a bluffmancer if you told me what rolling system you'd have us use if you wanted?
To be fair, I'd be 100% useless at everything else but y'know, purposes and whatnot.

I'm not sure what you mean... However from what I know, having NI attempts, you kill it.

Spells that cause death, or spells that are [Death] effects? If it's the latter, then there is not likely to be such a spell (as constructs are immune to [Death] effects). If the former, then does the thing have spell/power resistance? Do spells requiring a ranged touch attack fall afoul of the "All attempts to touch it fail" clause? If not, (at least) ten thousand manifestations of Enervation should do the trick. If the target has spell/power resistance which is low enough to be overcome, even if only on a natural twenty, continued manifestation of Enervation will yield the same result.

To give more suggestions, I'd need to know if it has Power/Spell Resistance (and if so, if said resistance is low enough to be overcome, even if it's only on a natural twenty), if the thing is immune to Force effects, if the thing is immune to Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, or Sonic energy, and if ranged touch attack spells/powers fail to work (or if some work (like, say, Evocations) and some do not (like, say, Conjurations)).

If anyone can think of a spell that might otherwise work, I'm open to suggestions.

Cause death, as a constructs it's immune to death, as sated. It does not have SR. I think so.
As far as I know, it'd be immune to all effects requiring it to be touched. It's immune to damage, it looks like constructs/it aren't immune to level drain, so if Enervation would work, if it could hit.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Cause death, as a constructs it's immune to death, as sated. It does not have SR. I think so.
As far as I know, it'd be immune to all effects requiring it to be touched. It's immune to damage, it looks like constructs/it aren't immune to level drain, so if Enervation would work, if it could hit.

Even if Enervation only hits on a natural twenty, Jersey will eventually hit sufficient times to deal 10,000 negative levels. Does that about do it?

If not, Jersey uses a standard action to manifest Dragon Breath, giving him a breath weapon. Using his swift action for the round, he manifests Enervating Breath, meaning his breath weapon deals negative levels. Using his next standard action (from Synchronicity) he uses his breath weapon on the target (dealing negative levels, no save). On his next Synchronicity standard action, he manifests Dispel Psionics, targeting Dragon Breath. Then, on his next Synchronicity standard, he manifests Dragon Breath, getting around the "you must wait 1d4 rounds before using [your breath weapon] again" clause. He then uses his breath weapon, dispels his breath weapon, and regains it, beginning the cycle anew, and so on, until the target is dead.

Does that work?

Edit:
To answer my own question, probably not, since Enervating Breath requires the target to fail its save, which this one will not do. Which means I'm looking for a means to deal negative levels, with no save, no attack roll, and using a standard action to manifest/cast, if I want to continue down the negative levels route (and if Enervation doesn't hit on a natural twenty, of course).

[ekarney]

I meant I'd actually roll up the full character for super bluff boosts

Provided you could tell me what system youd use for determining ability scores (3d6, X point buy etc)

That being said, HELL YEAH I WIN

[Kazyan]

It goes unconscious for a while. Now what?

Take a selfie with it. #YOLO #sigil #rudisplork

[Inevitability]

@Planar Shepherd:

As the PS gains immunity for the inherit harmful effects of the Far Realms, being in a bubble that imitates them wouldn't be a problem for him. Going into the actual far realms would probably cause him to be eaten by the D&D equivalent of SCP-682 in 0.34242534 nanoseconds, but in an environment that merely posesses all traits of the Far Realms he wouldn't be harmed.

So now I gotta get close to the monster, hm? Okay... plan B!

Spoiler

Show

Round 1: Have wizard cohort cast Gate to summon an Efreeti.
Round 2: Have the aforementioned Efreeti send you to a place exactly 5 feet from the creature's location. Ready an action to Planar Bubble.
Round 3: FEELZ MAH PLANAR BUBBLE!
Round 4: ???
Round 5: Profit!

[arclance]

I will say this much, I'm not sure where he got this version of incorporeality from in the rules, but I'd never use it myself.

The last printing of the rules for Incorporeality were printed in a sidebar in Tome of Battle (conviently the last 3.5 book printed) for the One With Shadow maneuver.
It was included because "The incorporeal subtype was updated in Monster Manual III for clarity.".
Since this is the very last version of the rules (and is reprinted from Monster Manual III) it should be the version in use by RAW.


The releveant part for the problems you are having here is this section.

Non magical attacks made by an incorporeal creature with a melee weapon have no effect on corporeal targets, and any melee attack an incorporeal creature makes with a magic weapon against a corporeal target has a 50% miss chance, except for attacks it makes with a ghost touch weapon, which are made normally (no miss chance).

Edit:
To answer my own question, probably not, since Enervating Breath requires the target to fail its save, which this one will not do. Which means I'm looking for a means to deal negative levels, with no save, no attack roll, and using a standard action to manifest/cast, if I want to continue down the negative levels route (and if Enervation doesn't hit on a natural twenty, of course).

Would a half shadow dragon with a half on a reflex save negative level breath weapon work?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Why would Twinned Celerities allow you to cast more Twinned Celerities?

Because the first ones might be from your own slots but the others are from spell-trigger item which needs standard action. Or you can be a sorceror, use greater celerity and have the application of metamagic extend the casting time. In either case, provided you use one of the many infinite wealth tricks, you get to have infinite actions per round.


BTW, as for a construct with regeneration, you can use your infinite number of actions (see above) and the Spell Rehearsal feat to get infinite CL and/or infinite DC. Once you do that;


1) Blasphemy, infinite CL = unconcious.
2) Unconsciouc = willing. Call/make/be a ghost, then possess it.
3) Have fun being the second most powerful being in the universe (after yourself)

[rockdeworld]

*No Response*

Yes, it seemed like it would take too long to read/respond to and get to bed at a reasonable time.

Ok, I did some tweaking to the creature to get version 2. V1 had a few inherently confusing rules that I've done my best to iron out (so as to not cause a paradox, say). Starting from the post where Erik Vale killed the first one, I'll use v2 to respond*.

*But thank you Erik for stepping up and answering questions in my absence. If I answer differently than you, chalk it up to v2 having different (and clearer) abilities than the v1 sheet you have.

Speaking of which, v2 would have the same effects on the victims up to Erik Vale's post except the following:
-Erik Vale's miracles fail (of course), and I got the impression he was worshiping a concept, so his character dies in the same manner (stripped of abilities, then damage).
-OldTrees1 Fishing Attempt 3 - I'm don't think Teleport through Time works that way, given the material components (and target), so it seems to me this is invalid.
-Everyone without Foresight (or something similar) is taken by surprise (0 rounds instead of 5 - not actually a change, just something I haven't been applying up til now).

Onwards!

Kalaska'Agathas's Jersey: Dies immediately (i.e. before casting Fission, after being a StP Thrallherd with Psion followers etc.).

Belial_the_Leveler's Twinned Celerities: I'd need to see a specific build to answer concretely.

Mystia's Lich: Body destroyed while scattering phylacteries. When he comes back to life he's destroyed again before he can take actions. The phylacteries are not destroyed.

Necroticplague: Dies immediately (before the start of round 1).

Heliomance: I might need to modify the creature's stats if we're going to apply realism but...
The first archivist: can soul-bound creatures rise as ghosts? Anyway, LA is probably too high as Erik said.
The random commoners-kings: Nothing, yet.
Psion/Diplomancer: how would they get knowledge that it's a creature? Assuming a lucky guess: nothing, yet.
None of them find anything though.

RL calls, I'll be back later.

[TheGeckoKing]

I think I have a way of winning, or at least forcing a draw, by virtue of Shaper of Form being poorly written/edited (props to the Dysfunctional Rules thread for this).
A Warforged Wizard 5/Shaper of Form 1 (We shall call him Epoch, and he MUST have at least 19 Con) is able to use the Modify Form (Renaissance) to become a Zodar (Fiend Folio), because they're both constructs (even if one has the living construct subtype) and the Zodar stat block lacks the "Level Adjustment:" line altogether (in my book, at least), so it doesn't have any Level Adjustments and thus meats the requirements for the class ability. Sure, you don't gain any stat changes, but that's REALLY good, because it means we keep our Int and our Con scores. This means he gains the Invulnerability (Ex) quality, so only attacks from bludgeoning weapons can do ANYTHING to him and they don't gain their enhancement bonuses on anything, but quite frankly that's not good enough.
If we take the most literal view of the rules, then by changing race from Warforged to Zodar, we also inherit the Zodar's 16HD? Bad idea? Good idea. For Epoch's 9th level feat, he takes Shape Soulmeld (Brood Keeper's Heart) and for his 21st level (out of 22 HD total) he takes Open Heart Chakra and due to Renaissance's wording, we still have our Con score to qualify for both feats, although it would be fair to infer that we don't gain ability score increases from the RHD. Brood Keeper's Heart is a soulmeld from Dragon Magazine 350 (100% official content, guys! ) that when bound to the Heart Chakra grants the Swarm Subtype, which in turn grants immunity to weapon damage if you are Diminutive or Fine sized, which Minute Form (Complete Arcane) can do for us.
As for shopping, we need two things. First, we need to buy a normal gauntlet, and a Weapon Graft (Fiend Folio again) of a Masterwork Tower Shield. Yes, it's an Improvised Masterwork Weapon, but it's Masterwork and a Weapon so it doesn't matter.
Now then, the 5 rounds are as follows;
Round 1 - Epoch uses his Wish (Su) for a ring that grants a continual Minute Form at CL 25.
Round 2 - Epoch puts the gauntlet on the hand with the ring on it, blocking line of sight/effect, so the ring can't be dispelled or more importantly disjoined. Epoch then uses his Tower Shield (which you can't sunder or disarm) to take Total Cover, blocking himself and his Brood Keeper's Heart from dispelling/disjoining.
Rounds 3 to Infinity - Epoch continues to take Total Cover until the Heat Death of Creation kills everything.

....So, did that work?

[Seppo87]

my character became pun-pun in his background and my dm allowed it. Since it passed, it hasn't yet been retroactively stopped as the game starts.
As soon as the game starts, I have full pun-pun powers and can retroactively stop OP's character instead.

I insist: my character does retroactively prevent OP's character with NI actions from an undetectable source, dimension, plane or time.

If this implies a loop, as OP's character insists that he should be able to do that first instead, I call bull**** and leave the gaming table unless a theoretical draw is assumed

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Would a half shadow dragon with a half on a reflex save negative level breath weapon work?

I'd have to see the shadow dragon statblock to know for sure. It wouldn't work with the Dragon Breath/Enervating Breath combo, since the Shadow Dragon's breath weapon isn't one of those listed in the spell.

Yes, it seemed like it would take too long to read/respond to and get to bed at a reasonable time.

Ok, I did some tweaking to the creature to get version 2. V1 had a few inherently confusing rules that I've done my best to iron out (so as to not cause a paradox, say). Starting from the post where Erik Vale killed the first one, I'll use v2 to respond.

Speaking of which, it would have the same effects on the victims up to Erik Vale's post except the following:
-Erik Vale's miracles fail (of course), and I got the impression he was worshipping a concept, so his character dies in the same manner (stripped of abilities, then damage).
-OldTrees1 Fishing Attempt 3 - I'm don't think Teleport through Time works that way, given the material components (and target), so it seems to me this is invalid.
-Everyone without Foresight (or something similar) is taken by surprise (0 rounds instead of 5 - not actually a change, just something I haven't been applying up til now).

Onwards!

Kalaska'Agathas's Jersey: Dies immediately (i.e. before casting Fission, after being a StP Thrallherd with Psion followers etc.).

Belial_the_Leveler's Twinned Celerities: I'd need to see a specific build to answer concretely.

Mystia's Lich: Body destroyed while scattering phylacteries. When he comes back to life he's destroyed again before he can take actions. The phylacteries are not destroyed.

Necroticplague: Dies immediately (before the start of round 1).

Heliomance: I might need to modify the creature's stats if we're going to apply realism but...
The first archivist: can soul-bound creatures rise as ghosts? Anyway, LA is probably too high as Erik said.
The random commoners-kings: Nothing, yet.
Psion/Diplomancer: how would they get knowledge that it's a creature? Assuming a lucky guess: nothing, yet.
None of them find anything though.

RL calls, I'll be back later.

If Jersey (who is a Psion with StP Thralls, rather than an StP with Psion Thralls, incidentally) has Foresight up, does that give him the five rounds to establish his action loop and engage the target? If so, then, with Foresight up, Jersey uses his standard to manifest Affinity Field, Thrall 1 (within the field) manifests an augmented Synchronicity, and Jersey is able to establish his combo and then proceeds as previously described (so long as the target is unable to interrupt a single round action loop, that is).

[ReluctantDragon]

my character became pun-pun in his background and my dm allowed it. Since it passed, it hasn't yet been retroactively stopped as the game starts.
As soon as the game starts, I have full pun-pun powers and can retroactively stop OP's character instead.

I insist: my character does retroactively prevent OP's character with NI actions from an undetectable source, dimension, plane or time.

If this implies a loop, as OP's character insists that he should be able to do that first instead, I call bull**** and leave the gaming table unless a theoretical draw is assumed

Uhm...Troll much?

To clarify this:

OP isn't using a character. OP is the DM in this situation, running an encounter with a creature. Seeing as how you are dependent upon something happening before mechanical creation, you essentially aren't sitting down at the table in the first place. Seeing as how you didn't sit down in the first place, your absence isn't missed and a draw doesn't have to be assumed, considered, or even fancied.

Moving on...

[Heliomance]

Heliomance: I might need to modify the creature's stats if we're going to apply realism but...
The first archivist: can soul-bound creatures rise as ghosts? Anyway, LA is probably too high as Erik said.
The random commoners-kings: Nothing, yet.
Psion/Diplomancer: how would they get knowledge that it's a creature? Assuming a lucky guess: nothing, yet.
None of them find anything though.

RL calls, I'll be back later.

The first Archivist wasn't soulbound, only his brother was. Still, the relevant thing I was trying to find out is whether it can somehow permanently kill a ghost.

For the Psion and the Diplomancer, let's say they know someone that was killed and swear vengeance right before doing their thing.

[Seppo87]

Uhm...Troll much?

To clarify this:

OP isn't using a character. OP is the DM in this situation, running an encounter with a creature. Seeing as how you are dependent upon something happening before mechanical creation, you essentially aren't sitting down at the table in the first place. Seeing as how you didn't sit down in the first place, your absence isn't missed and a draw doesn't have to be assumed, considered, or even fancied.

Moving on...

I was trying to subtly suggest an equal ground. The way it is now there is no way, it won't let you even try retroactively killing the character. why can't my character do the same then

[OldTrees1]

The first Archivist wasn't soulbound, only his brother was. Still, the relevant thing I was trying to find out is whether it can somehow permanently kill a ghost.

For the Psion and the Diplomancer, let's say they know someone that was killed and swear vengeance right before doing their thing.

I thought all victims were soulbound.
Ghosts can "just die" and be soulbound even if they have 15+ HD.

I was trying to subtly suggest an equal ground. The way it is now there is no way, it won't let you even try retroactively killing the character. why can't my character do the same then

It doesn't retroactively kill you. It kills you 1d4+1 rounds after it starts the fight. Just make sure your character is aware of when Turn 1 occurs.
I am still checking to see if there is a way to retroactively kill it. Evidence points to yes with difficultly but also points to it being unneeded.

-OldTrees1 Fishing Attempt 3 - I'm don't think Teleport through Time works that way, given the material components (and target), so it seems to me this is invalid.
-Everyone without Foresight (or something similar) is taken by surprise (0 rounds instead of 5 - not actually a change, just something I haven't been applying up til now).

RL calls, I'll be back later.

Wait, could you explain. I believe the spell can be used to send objects back, but perhaps I am erroneous in my method?
Am I wrong that the caster can forgo the trip? If so then I would need to cast the spell twice and not meet myself during the interval.
What about the material components would hinder this effort?

Side Questions for OP:
Would a bag of devouring consume the creature in 1 round if the bag is placed over the creature?
Would there be a grapple check to place the bag over the creature if the bag is larger than the creature's space?

[Lonely Tylenol]

Ok, you don't need to bypass incorporeality with this build, however you notice it's a construct, thus the bag isn't interested. Also, the bag needs to make a grapple check. However with a infinitely high int mod, wouldn't you be able to see it's sheet with your knowledge check [or the sheet of a basic one, which this one is]?

I'm pretty sure my inbox is full and I'm lazy, so I'll try to defeat it with a clever workaround before I resort to actually learning about this creature:

What happens when I grapple it, pin it down, and then, while holding the pinned creature to my chest, reach into the bag myself? Presumably, the Bag of Devouring cannot be selective of which of the two of us it eats, because for all intents and purposes, this creature is something I am carrying.

[1pwny]

Okay, I'm going to list everything we know about the enemy right here, right now, so that you guys can get to work on figuring out what it is:
Fight Information:

• It does NI Untyped damage. Strait HP damage.
• If the damage doesn't work, you just die. You die from being targeted.
• Doesn't require Line of Effect.
• If you can figure out when the first round starts, you have 1d4+1 rounds to survive. Apparently, Time Stop does not change this limit.
• (Ex) ability to strip all abilities, even class ones.
• Simultaneously hits you and your astral projection.
• Targeting with kill ability kills you.
• You can't touch it.
• Super saves, super SR, can't be touched (?), 10000 HD.

Creature Information:

• In Sigil
• Made of steampunk. Giant Clockwork creature.
• All attempts to gather Name information fail.
• Makes everything Hostile towards you.

Hypothesis: It kills you if you target it? So don't target it? And don't bring its attention to you... hm... Wait a sec, let me think...

[OldTrees1]

Hypothesis: It kills you if you target it? So don't target it? And don't bring its attention to you... hm... Wait a sec, let me think...

Nice list.
It does not care about your intentions. You are simply next on the list.

[Immabozo]

Is dragon magazine material allowed? Specifically the Pig Bonded flaw?

[Urpriest]

Is dragon magazine material allowed? Specifically the Pig Bonded flaw?

Your assumption that Orcus can defeat this thing is laughable. Though I guess Orcus appearing in Sigil would at least get the Lady's attention.

[No brains]

I'm going to put away my knife to try and cut this Gordian knot.

I want to be the shortest lived of all available creatures. The shortest I know is diopsid who I think lives to 16. I want to lose the ability to sense anything somehow. A continuous unconscious state would probably work, so I need awful con. Flaws might help too.

And that's it. I never become aware of this creature's existence, never attempt to harm it, and just become a waste of time for the creature to kill. I die quickly without any possibility of revival and have a very brief window in which I can even possibly get this creature's attention.

I don't win, it's not a draw, the creature and I just coexist in the multiverse.

Then again, 16 years is a lot of rounds. Assuming my impetuous existence is enough to draw its ire, how many rounds do I last after being born even more helpless than the average baby?

[Vhaidara]

I'm going to put away my knife to try and cut this Gordian knot.

I want to be the shortest lived of all available creatures. The shortest I know is diopsid who I think lives to 16. I want to lose the ability to sense anything somehow. A continuous unconscious state would probably work, so I need awful con. Flaws might help too.

And that's it. I never become aware of this creature's existence, never attempt to harm it, and just become a waste of time for the creature to kill. I die quickly without any possibility of revival and have a very brief window in which I can even possibly get this creature's attention.

I don't win, it's not a draw, the creature and I just coexist in the multiverse.

Then again, 16 years is a lot of rounds. Assuming my impetuous existence is enough to draw its ire, how many rounds do I last after being born even more helpless than the average baby?

You'll last 5. It has been stated that it kills anything on its list (its list being this thread) in 1d4+1 rounds.

Wait, I know how to gt around it. Someone post their character in a different thread.

[Qwertystop]

You'll last 5. It has been stated that it kills anything on its list (its list being this thread) in 1d4+1 rounds.

Wait, I know how to gt around it. Someone post their character in a different thread.

Hm. Does it follow hyperlinks? What about references to URLs that are not hyperlinks (put the thread name and number here but don't put the full URL)?

If it does, has it killed all the characters from people's sigs? For example, some people link to their games, and I have a quote in my sig at the moment from the OOC thread of a current Pathfinder game, which has links both to the IC thread and the mythweavers sheets of all the characters. Are they dead?
Can it open spoilerboxes?

[OldTrees1]

Hm. Does it follow hyperlinks? What about references to URLs that are not hyperlinks (put the thread name and number here but don't put the full URL)?

If it does, has it killed all the characters from people's sigs? For example, some people link to their games, and I have a quote in my sig at the moment from the OOC thread of a current Pathfinder game, which has links both to the IC thread and the mythweavers sheets of all the characters. Are they dead?
Can it open spoilerboxes?

Yes, it killed Priya when it was linked in a challenge post

However the list is not "characters that appear in this thread", it is more like "characters in this challenge".

[Sith_Happens]

Hypothesis: It kills you if you target it? So don't target it? And don't bring its attention to you... hm... Wait a sec, let me think...

As for trying to figure out what it is, I smell third-party. Specifically Immortals' Handbook, as Abrogate is the only way I've ever heard of to strip any and all abilities from a target without regard to their nature or source.

Your assumption that Orcus can defeat this thing is laughable. Though I guess Orcus appearing in Sigil would at least get the Lady's attention.

I'm pretty sure the idea is to use the Black Hole Pig that was achieved in the Pig Bond thread (i.e.- have such a high carrying capacity that the pig collapses into a black hole).

Hm. Does it follow hyperlinks? What about references to URLs that are not hyperlinks (put the thread name and number here but don't put the full URL)?

If it does, has it killed all the characters from people's sigs? For example, some people link to their games, and I have a quote in my sig at the moment from the OOC thread of a current Pathfinder game, which has links both to the IC thread and the mythweavers sheets of all the characters. Are they dead?
Can it open spoilerboxes?

*casts Magic Circle against Meta*

[Inevitability]

You could also gate in a half-celestial Genius Loci of infinite size and weight. That'd cause a black hole too.

Or chicken infested and create infinite chickens.

[Immabozo]

Your assumption that Orcus can defeat this thing is laughable. Though I guess Orcus appearing in Sigil would at least get the Lady's attention.

your assumption pains me.

I'm pretty sure the idea is to use the Black Hole Pig that was achieved in the Pig Bond thread (i.e.- have such a high carrying capacity that the pig collapses into a black hole).

QFT. I dont think it would survive a black hole!

[Heliomance]

Nice list.
It does not care about your intentions. You are simply next on the list.

Actually no. OP has clarified that my kings and commoners speculating about the creature have survived.

[Sith_Happens]

Or chicken infested and create infinite chickens.

Problem is the creature's in Sigil, so any plan involving massive collateral damage is a no-go.

[Urpriest]

your assumption pains me.



QFT. I dont think it would survive a black hole!

Ah, that does make more sense. Still, a Sphere of Annihilation has more potential here than a Black Hole does, a Black Hole is merely going to exert vast amounts of pressure (bludgeoning damage) and keep it from escaping, but doesn't have any particularly supernatural ability to annihilate something.