Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

[The_Admiral]

I vote for "Would you like a jelly baby?", Jelly babies are cool.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yep, it has to be "Would you like a jelly baby?"

Also, can someone help me? I don't know where I am.

[JediSoth]

Not only are Jelly Babies cool, but they're also delicious.

[ShinyCap]

Not only are Jelly Babies cool, but they're also delicious.

I tried Jelly Babies once, for the sake of the Doctor. I was disappointed.

I still fully approve them in the thread title, though.

[Androgeus]

I am also a fan of "Would you like a jelly baby?". Should I make the new thread when we hit page 50, or does anyone else want to take over the prestigious position of thread creator?

Also 50th Anniversary monster (Is news about what's actually in the 50th anniversary spoiler worthy?)

Spoiler

Show

Zygons!

[Thufir]

Since we're getting close to the end of the thread, may I propose the next title?

This should not even be a question.

On thread title, I proposed "Would you like a jelly baby?" a while back, and I suggest it again.

If it must be a question, this is the answer.

Should I make the new thread when we hit page 50, or does anyone else want to take over the prestigious position of thread creator?

Oi.

[Sunken Valley]

I am also a fan of "Would you like a jelly baby?". Should I make the new thread when we hit page 50, or does anyone else want to take over the prestigious position of thread creator?

Also 50th Anniversary monster (Is news about what's actually in the 50th anniversary spoiler worthy?)

Spoiler

Show

Zygons!

I don't think so. According to pictures on the outdoor set, it sounds like Zygon's will be a one off thing which is there for a small bit, like the Doctor jumping into space in the 2011 Christmas Special. The pictures also reveal that Tennant and Piper travel in the Tennant era TARDIS.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Every time I hear "Zygon", I want to start singing...

Zygons come in a little glass vial...
A little glass vial?
A little glass vial...

[CurlyKitGirl]

I was beginning to wonder from the general attitude towards her in this forum!

On thread title, I proposed "Would you like a jelly baby?" a while back, and I suggest it again.

re: the title: I thought that was pretty much a given, and always had been since the Doctor Who thread made it to its second thread.

As for the Rose thing. I have met almost no Rose fans on the internet, although some of my family like her. Well tolerate. At first.

I am also a fan of "Would you like a jelly baby?". Should I make the new thread when we hit page 50, or does anyone else want to take over the prestigious position of thread creator?

Of course you're doing it. It's your Thing.

Also 50th Anniversary monster (Is news about what's actually in the 50th anniversary spoiler worthy?)

Spoiler

Show

Zygons!

The monster looks promising.
What isn't promising is that, according to the article, a certain Rose is coming back. Swings and bloody roundabouts isn't it? Awesome sounding alien, but Rose.
Why can't Rose be the villain?
Then again, John Hurt's in it, and everyone know's who John Hurt is. And we can add one more Harry Potter veteran to the count. More importantly, he was General Woundwart in Watership Down, but only the tellybox show.

Question:
I saw 'THe Bells of St. John' less than an hour after it started airing. As I was at a meetup, no liveblog, and I've read a few (okay, mostly SUnken Valley's because I knew he wouldn't like it and would cry sexism) posts on it here.
Should I do a review on it given that it'll be a re-watch? I could just skip it.

Also.
I have a present in a new format. Thufir knows the format, but not what I watched. I think. But feel free to tell as much or as little as you want. Or make things up out of wholesale. Or guess. However, I'd rather wait until the new thread so it doesn't get overlooked.
I think it is a good present too!
Plus I have 'Genesis' 4/6 done. And am working on 'The Unicorn and the Wasp'.
Look at all my things, and they are being held hostage until thread the iv^th goes up. So start making posts or I'll delete all my reviews! Muhahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!()

[Reverent-One]

I was beginning to wonder from the general attitude towards her in this forum!

This forum, like most, has it's own biases (in this case anti-RTD era/Pro-Moffat era feelings), that doesn't represent all of the Doctor Who fandom.

[Friv]

This forum, like most, has it's own biases (in this case anti-RTD era/Pro-Moffat era feelings), that doesn't represent all of the Doctor Who fandom.

I think that "anti-RTD" is more than a little strong to represent this forum's attitude.

"Anti-Rose", more like.

"Anti-Last Four Specials", possibly.

"Russell T. Davies Hates Functioning Families", if we're going to be tongue-in-cheek about it. ;)

But seriously, he did a very good four years on the show, and then another year.

[Reverent-One]

I think that "anti-RTD" is more than a little strong to represent this forum's attitude.

I said "anti-RTD era" to encompass the multiple points that people generally complain about, Rose, aspects of 10's character, finales, ect, all of which are products of his run. Also meant it as a more variable thing as to whether they really dislike those things or just like the Moffat era things more.

[Eldan]

This forum has quite a few Anti-Moffats too, though. I'm not really Anti-Moffat, I ust think that the last season handled a lot of stuff terribly and had a horrible finale. And I don't like Smith as an actor.

And I liked RTD's specials and finales. They were horribly cheese, but i na good way.

[Hullabaloo]

My short and only thoughts on sexism in Who, are summed up by this clip, with my thinking similar to Sol's (mainly at 1:08) while people who see it everywhere are Max.

http://youtu.be/4YnpYWI4XNE?t=39s

[Sunken Valley]

I saw 'THe Bells of St. John' less than an hour after it started airing. As I was at a meetup, no liveblog, and I've read a few (okay, mostly SUnken Valley's because I knew he wouldn't like it and would cry sexism) posts on it here.

I did like it! I gave it an 8! That's good! It means I liked it but it didn't wow me.

[Reverent-One]

This forum has quite a few Anti-Moffats too, though. I'm not really Anti-Moffat, I ust think that the last season handled a lot of stuff terribly and had a horrible finale. And I don't like Smith as an actor.

Sure, but I've been in or seen enough discussions here to see they're less common than the reverse. As a general statement on the tendencies of the forum, I stand by what I said.

[Calemyr]

How about: "Then it's true that the Doctor eats babies?"

At least I think that was Leela's response when the Doctor made his famous offer to her for the first time. Of course, that's not the Doctor speaking, so I rather doubt it qualifies.

Liked the Bells of Saint John, felt there was still something lacking. Not sure what, but it didn't quite satisfy.

Didn't see the sexism, really. It's Clara that really cracks the mystery, and the waitress scene was clearly meant to be creepy and show that Boss Lady saw all people as 'things' rather than 'people'. The Doctor is still unhinged over the loss of the Ponds and Clara - twice. He gets protective in that mindset, even when people neither want nor need his protection, and it appropriately creeps Clara out.

[The Extinguisher]

re: Rose fans. My girlfriend is a huge Rose fan. As in, she's her favourite companion and she bawled during the series 2 finale. They are out there. Wasn't she voted the most popular companion at one point.

[Sunken Valley]

re: Rose fans. My girlfriend is a huge Rose fan. As in, she's her favourite companion and she bawled during the series 2 finale. They are out there. Wasn't she voted the most popular companion at one point.

She was. In a radio times poll 3 years ago. Rose was 1, Sarah Jane was 2, Donna was 3, K9 was 4 and Amy was 5. I remember the Brig, Captain Jack, Layla, Ace and Martha being in the top ten as well

[Kato]

Curly, if you feel like making a review, I'm sure many of us would be glad to read it. But if you just want to say your opinion on the episode it's fine by me as well. You don't need to go out of your way for our entertainment
Also, excited for the present. I'd almost pour some fuel on the Moffat vs RTD debate to get the thread done faster but then again I think we did this over and over and over and over.....

[Androgeus]

Of course you're doing it. It's your Thing.

I'm unsure if having "makes the doctor who thread" is good to have as one's Thing. (Also I believe Thufir made the IInd thread) (2nd also I would have thought my thing was going on about non-TV material no one cares about, which reminds Nazi companion arc is being broadcast on again, you can iplayer it here)

Should I do a review on it given that it'll be a re-watch? I could just skip it.

If you don't feel there's anything interesting to review in it, you can just skip it. You will have to live with the fact you left an episode unreviewed however.

This forum, like most, has it's own biases (in this case anti-RTD era/Pro-Moffat era feelings), that doesn't represent all of the Doctor Who fandom.

While I think there's quite a large anti-RTD era group on this forum, I think we're more split on Moffat's era.

One last thing, I feel I should probably let everyone know that there is a Doctor Who Hurt/Heal thingey going on in Silly Message Board Games

[CurlyKitGirl]

This forum, like most, has it's own biases (in this case anti-RTD era/Pro-Moffat era feelings), that doesn't represent all of the Doctor Who fandom.

Like calls to like. On the internet like summons like. F'r'instance, you won't find many people who read/post in this thread who don't like Doctor Who. They're going to be fans, who people who'd like to give it a try and so on.
I can't and won't speak for everyone, and I personally haven't seen anything of RTD's era past the first twenty minutes or so of 'The Unicorn and the Wasp', but the general feeling I get from these threads is that some of the later episodes really weren't all that good at all, and may have soured their opinion on him and his reign.

I said "anti-RTD era" to encompass the multiple points that people generally complain about, Rose, aspects of 10's character, finales, ect, all of which are products of his run. Also meant it as a more variable thing as to whether they really dislike those things or just like the Moffat era things more.

Yes, those are problems, as there are problems with all era.
With JNT (concerning Six's reign) there were budget problems; dictates from on high saying the Doctor had to be Other Things; a succession of poor stories; that godawful coat and Peri's accent which actually makes me want to strangle her. (Ooops. Spoilers.)
That said, JNT (concerning Seven's reign) seems better. The stories seem stronger overall; Ace is Ace; the darker tone of the Doctor seems to fit the stories better; there was the Cartmel Plan which required closer attention to detail in order to seed things for the reveal later on; the budget was still a problem, as it always was.
All this is gleaned from hearsay and two serials. Good things, bad things; the problem is most people focus on the bad things. Accentuate the negative and all that jazz.
With RTD (and him in particular) he was behind God Moding Rose, and utterly ruining the second season's finale by centring the entire thing on her; he wrote 'Love and Monsters', and 'Fear Her' was a last-minute filler; the finales are usually very good with the exception of the actual climax. I still think the third season three-parter finale is the best of all the Nu Who I've seen, with the exception of Tinkerbell Jesus Doctor. And even then I admit that was foreshadowed at least as early as 'The Shakespeare Code'. I also don't like aspects of Ten's character that seem wildly inconsistent and his general hypocrisy concerning guns, but that I'll place mostly down to writers. Also, the angsty drama can be overmuch.
However, he also wrote 'Midnight' which is one of the few season four Doctor Who episodes I saw when it first aired, and it was damn creepy. 'Utopia'/'The Sound of Drums'/'Last of the Time Lords' is pretty damn near perfect, and for the most part the whole of season three is the strongest I've seen yet. With the exception of That One Two-Parter. I also love and adore Donna Noble.

Overall I think he's a better producer/show runner than a writer, and that his love of spectacle sometimes ruins things that could (and perhaps should) be done more subtly.

With Moffat, I love every episode he did under RTD and most of the episodes he wrote during his own reign. THAT I HAVE SEEN. I still have season five to do. I think there are a great many strong individual episodes. I enjoy the silly madcap episodes very much, and the darker ones stand out all the more for it. I love Rory and I greatly like Amy. And Rory's Dad.
However, sometimes his love for myth arcs can be a little too obvious (LOOK, LOOK, LOOK AT THIS IT IS IMPORTANT!) and confusing. While this is Doctor Who and one shouldn't look too closely at it for the plot holes, sometimes I feel that there should be less hole and more plot in 'his' episodes. I don't like RIver Song and his timey-wimey stuff can be a little too dismissive. And sometimes under his reign (not just him as a writer) the portrayal of women (and thus men, to an extent) is . . . odd. Not even something I can put my finger on sometimes, but when you feel a little unsettled by things said by/done to/about women/etc. in several episodes in a row there is something there.

Better writer than producer for the most part, and his seasons could use a bit more substance, but overall, there aren't any episodes that I truly dislike, unlike under RTD's where I can name at least five: 'Love and Monsters', 'Fear Her', 'The Doctor's Daughter', 'Daleks in Manhattan'/'Evolution of the Daleks'. And I've seen seasons one, two and three, and half of four. Similarly, there aren't any Companions under Moffatt that I truly dislike, unlike RTD's Rose and I remain ambivalent over Martha and River Song.
While his highest points aren't as high as RTD's, he also doesn't have many lows. Moffatt, to me, seems rather more consistent on the whole. Plus he got Neil Gaiman to write two episodes.

My short and only thoughts on sexism in Who, are summed up by this clip, with my thinking similar to Sol's (mainly at 1:08) while people who see it everywhere are Max.

http://youtu.be/4YnpYWI4XNE?t=39s

*high fives*
That's all criticism for you. One of my favourite academics is Elizabeth Archibald, she specialises in two main areas: incest/sexual deviance and the roman baths in medieval romances. When I see her name that's what I think of.
People who look for sexism see sexism everywhere, even when it's not, or just as equally, when it's not intended.

I did like it! I gave it an 8! That's good! It means I liked it but it didn't wow me.

Oh okay, does seem rather a high rating for just liking though. Still, it was a pretty good episode, and while I do see sexism and creepy behaviour in it, it's shown as Wrong.

Liked the Bells of Saint John, felt there was still something lacking. Not sure what, but it didn't quite satisfy.

Didn't see the sexism, really. It's Clara that really cracks the mystery, and the waitress scene was clearly meant to be creepy and show that Boss Lady saw all people as 'things' rather than 'people'. The Doctor is still unhinged over the loss of the Ponds and Clara - twice. He gets protective in that mindset, even when people neither want nor need his protection, and it appropriately creeps Clara out.

Yeah, that's my basic opinion: liked it, enjoyed it quite a bit, but there's something missing about it. And I couldn't stop from saying 'Are you my Mummy?' and 'Donna Noble has been saved to the library'. Both Moffatt episodes if I remember correctly.

Also agreeing with you on the strong females here: yes, the Doctor saves Clara and intimidates the Controller into doing as he said; but Clara's the one who figures out where to go, the Controller is the antagonist, who gets the drop on the Doctor several times. While she's doing this on behalf of someone with a male voice, it's in the same way as one commissions something.
Dude: I want minds. I shall given you technology to help you, but other than that, I trust you completely.
Lady: thank you for your trust and the technology, I shall do my best to fulfil this contract.
She has full agency over everything, and even at the end, she could have chosen not to restore everything to factory settings. She did because . . . well, I don't know, but perhaps professional courtesy or it was part of the contract.

Curly, if you feel like making a review, I'm sure many of us would be glad to read it. But if you just want to say your opinion on the episode it's fine by me as well. You don't need to go out of your way for our entertainment
Also, excited for the present. I'd almost pour some fuel on the Moffat vs RTD debate to get the thread done faster but then again I think we did this over and over and over and over.....

Sweet.
And the Moffatt/RTD debate will end as it always does: they both have very good points; Moffatt's Companions are usually better; Rose sucks; opinions are divided on the Doctor; and both show runners are somewhat lacking in finales, but for various reasons. Also, when both are good writers, they write some stunningly good (and creepy) stories.

[navar100]

Some people just aren't happy until they feel offended and get to rant about it. If they need to manufacture offense, so be it.

[Reverent-One]

Like calls to like. On the internet like summons like. F'r'instance, you won't find many people who read/post in this thread who don't like Doctor Who. They're going to be fans, who people who'd like to give it a try and so on.

While true, I don't think those that those who think less of the RTD era are so aggressive that they'd turn away those who feel differently. Or to use a more specific example, that someone who likes Rose wouldn't post here for fear of being burned at the stake.

I can't and won't speak for everyone, and I personally haven't seen anything of RTD's era past the first twenty minutes or so of 'The Unicorn and the Wasp', but the general feeling I get from these threads is that some of the later episodes really weren't all that good at all, and may have soured their opinion on him and his reign.

I'd disagree with that assessment, but have had enough discussions with people about them (especially the end of the last RTD special, which has come up in these threads several times) to know that some feel that way.

[Thufir]

Of course you're doing it. It's your Thing.

But it's not! It's mine and he stole it! It's mine, my precious!

Question:
I saw 'THe Bells of St. John' less than an hour after it started airing. As I was at a meetup, no liveblog, and I've read a few (okay, mostly SUnken Valley's because I knew he wouldn't like it and would cry sexism) posts on it here.
Should I do a review on it given that it'll be a re-watch? I could just skip it.

Well, you know I'm always interested to read your reviews. Actually, I was considering doing one of my own as well.

Also.
I have a present in a new format. Thufir knows the format, but not what I watched. I think.

I... I think I remember you telling me about it, but I can't currently recall what you said.

Look at all my things, and they are being held hostage until thread the iv^th goes up. So start making posts or I'll delete all my reviews! Muhahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!()

Well, this is a post. We're getting there.

How about: "Then it's true that the Doctor eats babies?"

At least I think that was Leela's response when the Doctor made his famous offer to her for the first time.

I believe the line is "Then it's true. They said the Evil One eats babies."
I'm pretty certain she called him the Evil One.

I'm unsure if having "makes the Doctor Who thread" is good to have as one's Thing. (Also I believe Thufir made the IInd thread)

And the first one (Of this series of threads, that is, there were others previously which never lasted long enough to have a second iteration).

[Sunken Valley]

Whose making the thread? Thufir? Androgeus? Curly? Sunken Valley? Is there a decision?

[CurlyKitGirl]

While true, I don't think those that those who think less of the RTD era are so aggressive that they'd turn away those who feel differently. Or to use a more specific example, that someone who likes Rose wouldn't post here for fear of being burned at the stake.

True, I'd ask why they liked Rose in the first place.
As for why this particular thread/forum generally likes Moffatt more than RTD I've no idea. Maybe it's one of those freak occurrences of nature.

I'd disagree with that assessment, but have had enough discussions with people about them (especially the end of the last RTD special, which has come up in these threads several times) to know that some feel that way.

And as I've never seen those specials ever, I'm only giving my impression of what I skim read given I intend to be completely blind.

But it's not! It's mine and he stole it! It's mine, my precious!

Well one of you can do it then.

Well, you know I'm always interested to read your reviews. Actually, I was considering doing one of my own as well.

Then do so. Reviews and opinions are good, they are the meat of conversation.

I... I think I remember you telling me about it, but I can't currently recall what you said.

*eyeroll*
Well then you can be surprised too.

Well, this is a post. We're getting there.

True that, only a couple more posts until we hit page fifty I think.

Whose making the thread? Thufir? Androgeus? Curly? Sunken Valley? Is there a decision?

Not me. I'm 'editing'.
By which I mean getting some pics off the internet to show you how balls-out weird some things are. And there's several paragraphs of metaphorical screaming about some idiots that need to be removed. And perhaps typos too.

How about: whoever's online when we hit page fifty can do it.

[Thufir]

Who's making the thread? Thufir? Androgeus? Curly? Sunken Valley? Is there a decision?

If we're of the opinion there should be an 'official' thread creator, I contend that it should be me. If not, then it goes up for grabs once we reach page 50.
Though, whoever makes the thread, make sure you include all relevant links and stuff, something about spoilers of new episodes, etc. Generally, try to be informative.

[Androgeus]

If we're of the opinion there should be an 'official' thread creator, I contend that it should be me. If not, then it goes up for grabs once we reach page 50.
Though, whoever makes the thread, make sure you include all relevant links and stuff, something about spoilers of new episodes, etc. Generally, try to be informative.

If you really want the thread Thufir, you can have it. I can maintain the review archive if you want though, if ya do I'll try and grab the second post in the thread. Also doing a bit of maths, I think there's one more post for this page so you might as well just make the new thread.

[CurlyKitGirl]

Yes, please make a new thread. I'll be posts three and four I suppose?