Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

[UserClone]

Yup. Your assessments are correct, guys. I slept on it, woke up, decided that fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong, after all. I earnestly apologized, explaining that I now realized that her experiences were life just as much as mine are, and that they were no less valid than mine. She graciously accepted the apology. I am an ******* when I'm tired, it seems.

Oh, and thanks.

[The Succubus]

One thing I picked up from this - a lot of folks have said "if this is how you feel, you should break up, why are you with her, etc".

The thing is, partners in Real Life (patent pending) do not fit some perfect romantic ideal. True, you might put them on a pedestal and idolise them but I guarantee that even the most contented and loving couple will have an argument at some point. You can love someone to bits and there will be a fragment of them that pushes a button on you marked "Do not push this". Besides, at least they're being open with their feelings and that's a good thing. You just need to learn not to push the button all the time.

Oh and the other thing about arguments? Make-up snuggling.

[DeadManSleeping]

I slept on it, woke up, decided that fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong

I'm a fan of sarcasm, sir, but you leave the King out of this I am joking

More to the point, relationship advice should be taken as a chance to reflect on your own desires and actions, but following the majority may not always be your best bet (unless I am with the majority, because I am always right). As I mentioned in an earlier, unrelated post, a very large number of people are romantic screwups who will give other people advice that they haven't realized has not worked well for them.

[Drascin]

The discussion doesn't really have anything to do with your point, from what I've understood. It's how you brought that up.

From what you've told us, you were having an argument, decided that "we're done here" was going to end it, and she responded with a comment that irked you; namely, "that isn't how it works in the real world". Which, to be honest? Is completely true. Announcing that "we're done here" doesn't end an argument, it says that one (or both) of you aren't willing to try to see where the other person is coming from. And in my experience, the person who says "we're done here" is usually the one who hasn't been willing to see the other side of the argument (I say this having been both the recipient and deliverer of that line).

Not my experience at all. Not knowing when to just say "we're done here right now" just lets the discussion go on increasingly heated until someone says something they will regret later, from what I've seen.

I have heard that line a fair few times, both on the emitting and the receiving end. And honestly, there has not been a time where it has happened and not been a good idea. We can come back and find a compromise when we're not angry. Continuing a conversation while both parts are heated only leads to hard to take back idiocy in one or both parts, generally speaking.

Of course, this does not come from experience with discussion in romantic relationships, as that is a situation I have never been in. Just with general discussing with people. But I don't think the protocol would be that different.

[fergo]

Speaking as someone still in full-time education (although not, to be fair, still living at home), it's amazing how you get the idea into your head that you know everything there is to know about life.

I know that's not true, but I still get annoyed when someone, say, still living at home thinks to tell me 'what real life is'.

From what I can see, there is no one 'magic moment' where you suddenly transform into an adult in the 'real world', perfectly responsible and in control. It's a gradual thing.

When I was younger, I'd think of people living away at university as 'grown ups', even if they did still have parental support. Now I know that, at least for me personally, that simply isn't true. Who knows if I'll feel more confident about my own adulthood when I have a job, have a house, maybe even have children?

What I'm trying to say is that it's a progressive thing, not a 'have/have not' division. So anyone, anywhere along the scale, can feel that they know everything there is to know, and equally so anyone, anywhere along the scale, can have a(n even justified) annoyance at someone further down than them making assumptions.

Since the problem has been resolved, I'm just throwing this out there as my two cents and to see if anyone wants to disagree with me .

Oh, and again, not vital, but my own meagre insight into relationships in general: try not to fight.

I would say don't fight, but that is of course completely impossible.

I know the advice sounds self-evident, but what I mean is try and, as far as possible, keep a clear head during disagreements or arguments. Everyone knows that massive rows can be sparked by the silliest things, so try not to be spiteful or aggressively sarcastic when you're disagreeing about something. And when you have had a fight, don't sink into a pit of anger, resentment and sulking; try and sort it out as soon as possible.

I could go on, but it's not really relevant here, and as I said it's pretty obvious stuff . I'm just mentioning it because it's bloody important.

[Objection]

Not my experience at all. Not knowing when to just say "we're done here right now" just lets the discussion go on increasingly heated until someone says something they will regret later, from what I've seen.

I have heard that line a fair few times, both on the emitting and the receiving end. And honestly, there has not been a time where it has happened and not been a good idea. We can come back and find a compromise when we're not angry. Continuing a conversation while both parts are heated only leads to hard to take back idiocy in one or both parts, generally speaking.

Of course, this does not come from experience with discussion in romantic relationships, as that is a situation I have never been in. Just with general discussing with people. But I don't think the protocol would be that different.

Drascin, I think you're talking about saying "we're done here for now and we'll come back to it later" while rogueboy was talking about saying "we're done here for good and we're never discussing it again". With that in mind, I would say that you're both right.

[Pheehelm]

One thing I picked up from this - a lot of folks have said "if this is how you feel, you should break up, why are you with her, etc".

The thing is, partners in Real Life (patent pending) do not fit some perfect romantic ideal. True, you might put them on a pedestal and idolise them but I guarantee that even the most contented and loving couple will have an argument at some point.[ You can love someone to bits and there will be a fragment of them that pushes a button on you marked "Do not push this". Besides, at least they're being open with their feelings and that's a good thing. You just need to learn not to push the button all the time.

But nobody's saying simply "they had an argument they should break up" or even "they had a fight they should break up." It's not the fight or even the button-pushing that's making them say this, it's the contempt they're perceiving, which is a major relationship-ender. Even if it only ever shows up in brief flashes.

[fergo]

It's natural that in a relationship, there'll be little niggling things that pop up every now and again and get on your nerves. It's also natural that in the heat of the moment (even a short while later over the internet ) you'll make a big deal out of these things.

While this may come across very strong and seem like a massive, relationship-changing thing, it's not. Or at least it doesn't have to be. If you feel such contempt all the time, you may want to re-think your relationship... but this doesn't have to be the case.

TL;DR: what Succubus said. One rash, angry comment on the internet does not a big deal make.

[Dvil]

So, I've lately begun crushing on a friend of mine, who's at least interested back. Now I'm just overthinking everything. I'm terrified that I'll either blow my chance or miss it. Just needed a wee vent.

[fergo]

My (inexpert) advice is to not be afraid to take things slow, especially if you know she likes you back . It may be better to build up to something instead of just trying to rush it. This is especially true if (like me) you're inclined to overthink everything and second-guess yourself.

That said... if the perfect moment comes along, take it! Carpe diem and all that . And best of luck to ye.

As for an event... how awkward would it be to organise an event just for the two of you? May not be easy, if you're part of a group of friends--you don't want to put her in a potentially awkward position by just asking her on a date outright, but on the other hand she may not apreciate you skirting around the issue and saying things like "We can invite other people if you want..." (I know my girlfriend wasn't impressed when I did that ).

Eek . Looking back at that last paragraph, seems like I've just given you more to worry about . Just relax and you'll be fine .

[/blathering on a subject I'm in no position to give advice on]

[Dvil]

<snip>

Well she spent last night in my flat for a TV marathon, and for the most part that was just the two of us. We do couple-y things, which is how I know she's interested, but she only just broke up with someone so I'm constantly second-guessing myself as to how long I should wait before asking for a Date with a capital D.

[John Cribati]

Well she spent last night in my flat for a TV marathon, and for the most part that was just the two of us. We do couple-y things, which is how I know she's interested, but she only just broke up with someone so I'm constantly second-guessing myself as to how long I should wait before asking for a Date with a capital D.

Short answer: Ask her what's up.

Long answer: Tell her you're willing to wait until she's ready to Capital-D Date, and not to worry about hurting your feelings.

[Serpentine]

But nobody's saying simply "they had an argument they should break up" or even "they had a fight they should break up." It's not the fight or even the button-pushing that's making them say this, it's the contempt they're perceiving, which is a major relationship-ender. Even if it only ever shows up in brief flashes.

I would like to point out that I never said "break up with her", but "you should think about what this means for your relationship" and "as you've described it, this doesn't sound healthy for either of you". All of which is intended to generate introspection, not a split.

So, I've lately begun crushing on a friend of mine, who's at least interested back. Now I'm just overthinking everything. I'm terrified that I'll either blow my chance or miss it. Just needed a wee vent.

Oooo. Same person?

[The Succubus]

Make sure you have your hat though Dvil. It makes you look dashing.

[rogueboy]

Not my experience at all. Not knowing when to just say "we're done here right now" just lets the discussion go on increasingly heated until someone says something they will regret later, from what I've seen.

I have heard that line a fair few times, both on the emitting and the receiving end. And honestly, there has not been a time where it has happened and not been a good idea. We can come back and find a compromise when we're not angry. Continuing a conversation while both parts are heated only leads to hard to take back idiocy in one or both parts, generally speaking.

Of course, this does not come from experience with discussion in romantic relationships, as that is a situation I have never been in. Just with general discussing with people. But I don't think the protocol would be that different.

Drascin, I think you're talking about saying "we're done here for now and we'll come back to it later" while rogueboy was talking about saying "we're done here for good and we're never discussing it again". With that in mind, I would say that you're both right.

Objection covered what I was going to say. The difference is the "right now" part of your phrasing. With it, healthy way to get to a resolution. Without it, never a healthy ending to an argument.

[UserClone]

For my buck, we've had the "she is going to force the issue until kingdom come and will unrelentingly demand an argument no matter how much I ask to take a break" argument enough times that:

A. It's implied that I only mean "for right now."
B. A is moot.

[Indurain]

UC,

I have to agree with what a lot of people have said here. The way you speak about this girl comes across very contempous. I think Serp had it right, saying you need to take some introspective time and decide if this girl is really worth all this frustration.

She may be a great girl, she just may not be great for you.

Just. Think. About. It.

[UserClone]

No, it's all good. She is just of the mind of the first group of responders, who said that you can't just end conversations mid-argument, and I am of the mind of the one or two folks who said that it's often better to let that stuff simmer down for a while and come back to it later when it's no longer boiling over.

[Heliomance]

Just exchanged Skype names with the first girl I ever contacted on OKC. Since when was I charismatic?

[Sholos]

No, it's all good. She is just of the mind of the first group of responders, who said that you can't just end conversations mid-argument, and I am of the mind of the one or two folks who said that it's often better to let that stuff simmer down for a while and come back to it later when it's no longer boiling over.

I'm pretty sure all of us think that temporarily taking a break from a heated conversation is good, actually.

[The Succubus]

Just exchanged Skype names with the first girl I ever contacted on OKC. Since when was I charismatic?

Well, if your real life persona is like your online one, you're quite the polite and charming young lady.

Of course, the best way for us to verify this is if you CAME TO ONE OF THE UK MEETS. Hint hint.

[fergo]

Short answer: Ask her what's up.

Long answer: Tell her you're willing to wait until she's ready to Capital-D Date, and not to worry about hurting your feelings.

Agreed. More or less.

[Heliomance]

I'm meeting Cas this weekend! :(

[Dvil]

Oooo. Same person?

Mmmmmmmmaybe. Yes. And for the benefit of everyone else, no it's not Serpentine

Make sure you have your hat though Dvil. It makes you look dashing.

Oh. Um, thank you. I shall bear it in mind!

[fergo]

I'm meeting Cas this weekend! :(

Who's Cas?

[Dvil]

Who's Cas?

Castaras

10character limit...

[fergo]

Castaras

10character limit...

Ah, sorry . Newbie here.

[Dvil]

Ah, sorry . Newbie here.

It's not a problem, we all were once. Heck, I'm just glad I'm not the UK's resident newbie any more

[Castaras]

Castaras

10character limit...

*wanders in with a silly mustache*

sup.

*wanders out again*

[Dvil]

fergo: It's understandable to not know this since you're new here, but Castaras is actually a werewolf. Don't be fooled by her faux innocence! It's ok though, stick with us northerners and you'll be safe.