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Thread: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
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2012-10-01, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
After their last argument , I'm beginning to think that both Tarquin and Ian are not so different afterall. Both are foreigners in a land that is not their own trying to impose their political views upon it. Both are also stubborn and believe that any other way of thinking besides their's is automatically wrong. And.....both are also fathers of respective protagonists.
Last edited by paladinofshojo; 2012-10-01 at 03:26 PM.
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2012-10-01, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Location
- Czech Republic
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Yeah ... except for that they have completely opposite alignments.
There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.
Silent member of Zz'dtri's #698 Scrying Sensor Explanation Club.
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2012-10-01, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2012-10-01, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2012-10-01, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
I'm so incredibly relieved that this wasn't an attempt to argue that Ian and Tarquin are (somehow) literally the same.
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2012-10-01, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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2012-10-01, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
That's half the reason I'm relieved.
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2012-10-02, 02:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Memphis, TN
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
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2012-10-06, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Come to think of it, other than being the father of a protagonist (inb4WMG), Girard would count too.
Outsiders? Yup.
Trying to impose views? It's a stretch, but "the gate must not fall into evil hands" ought to do it.
Dogmatic? Oh yes.
Also believes in strong family ties like Ian, and is paranoid enough for both of them.
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2012-10-06, 02:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
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2012-10-06, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
- Location
- By a Park
- Gender
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2012-10-07, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
They are not the same, but they are a lot alike.
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2012-10-08, 06:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Lustria
- Gender
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Last edited by Killer Angel; 2012-10-08 at 06:35 AM.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2012-10-08, 06:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Germany
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2012-10-08, 02:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
According to Book 5's commentary, Ian and Tarquin are the exact same person.
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2012-10-08, 11:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
However, the imposition of views is fundamentally different when one case is trying to enshrine their views into law and brutally enforce them whereas the other is trying to create a society where their views are not imposed at all, and where other people can choose to reject their views if they choose to do so. As for them being foreigners in a land that is not their own, that applies to either much of the population given the amount of migrations, troop movements and settling, etc. going on, or basically nobody if you consider this valid and the land belonging largely to the new people.
To some extent they are foils, but calling them the same and using the imposition of political views to do so is a stretch. A revolutionary leader and a tyrant are two very different positions, even if one can transition from one to the other under the correct circumstances.I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2012-10-09, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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- Sweden
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Trying to take over an entire continent and be a dictator who rules with an iron fist, and trying to topple an evil dictator to make him not oppress people are not "imposing their political views" in the same sense.
Tarqin is imposing his political views on EVERYONE, Ian is imposing his political views on TARQIN.
So no, they're not the same in any meaningful way.
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Ian got himself imprisoned by choice, how is that possibly a grab for wealth and power? He was gonna die in there if not for Haley.Last edited by Mastikator; 2012-10-09 at 01:36 AM.
Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal
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2012-10-10, 10:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Brazil
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2012-10-11, 06:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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2012-10-14, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
- Location
- Turkey
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Actually, they are twins. And Tarquin's real name is Nai Starshine.
Spoiler
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2012-10-14, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
- Gender
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Tarquin isn't really trying to impose his views on the nation. He is more trying to impose his will on it. He doesn't care about the culture, nature, or opinions of the people of the Empire of Blood, and will cheerfully modify any of them to make himself more likely to keep power.
Ian, on the other hand, is doing the opposite. He doesn't care about being in power, but is extremely determined to alter the opinions of the Empire such that they do not want to have tyrants or strong authority figures in general.
They're almost exact opposites.If you like my thoughts, you'll love my writing. Visit me at www.mishahandman.com.
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2012-10-14, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Location
- Michigan
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Not quite. Ian is imposing his political views on Tarquin and everybody who agrees with tarquin who's lives have improved under Tarquin's rule.. Some people simply don't want the kind of anarchic freedom Ian promotes and Ian would, yes, be forcing his ideology on those people.
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2012-10-14, 03:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
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2012-10-14, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- Anywhere the wind blows..
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Minor quibble - "protagonist" does not necessarily mean "hero". It just means he's the one the story is about. See Scarface and The Godfather for examples of villainous protagonists.
Likewise, an antagonist is not necessarily villainous - it's just someone or something that provides conflict for the protagonist. See Sam Gerard of The Fugitive for a heroic antagonist.
Yeah, I know I just killed the joke. Sorry.Last edited by Gitman00; 2012-10-14 at 10:52 PM.
Asymmetrically shod ass-kicker of the fan club
Nice Guys: Read this.
Quotes:
Spoiler"Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest."
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2012-10-18, 07:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
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- Sweden
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Black text is for sarcasm, also sincerity. You'll just have to read between the lines and infer from context like an animal
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2012-10-18, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- Location
- Memphis, TN
- Gender
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
The bounty hunters seem to be doing passably well under Tarquin's rule. As well as the slavers, who are admittedly on strike. The members of the military and palace guard probably range from ambivalent to happy about the current state of things. I'd say there's quite a few in the Empire of Blood who like the way Tarquin is running the place (even if they don't know it's him calling the shots). If there weren't, there would've been a revolution already.
Unless by "people" you mean "non-Evil humans"; I usually read that to mean "sentient creatures" when the context is a fantasy setting with many varied sentient species.
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2012-10-18, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
There are two objections to be made. Well, there may be more, but two is all I can think of at the moment. First, there's no particular reason to believe that bounty hunters, slavers and slave drivers (it's the latter that are on strike), the military, and the police are representative of the people as a whole. With the exception of the bounty hunters and the slavers, all these people were both residents of Bleedingham and employees of the state - and the bounty hunters were independent contractors who ended up working for the state the only time we saw them. That this sample is rife with, well, sampling errors should be obvious. Second, why exactly should anyone with a reasonable regard for other beings' wellbeing and rights care at all for what bounty hunters, slavers, slave drivers, [REDACTED], and [REDACTED] think?
EDIT: my politics were showing.
I'd say there's quite a few in the Empire of Blood who like the way Tarquin is running the place (even if they don't know it's him calling the shots). If there weren't, there would've been a revolution already.
Not that revolution is even remotely possible in a universe with characters as powerful as high-level adventurers.
Unless by "people" you mean "non-Evil humans"; I usually read that to mean "sentient creatures" when the context is a fantasy setting with many varied sentient species.Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-10-18 at 02:06 PM.
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2012-10-18, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Memphis, TN
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2012-10-18, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- By a Park
- Gender
Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
Do we have the Census figures to know whether or not that is really true? That there is a sizable portion of the population of the Empire of Blood that are fine with the way Tarquin runs things doesn’t matter much if it is indeed true that the portion that doesn’t is approximately equal to the portion of Azurites unhappy with the Goblin Occupation. That is just a matter of numbers.
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2012-10-18, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
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- Memphis, TN
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Re: Are Ian and Tarquin the same?
I know of zero humans in Azure City who are okay with the way the goblins are running things (since Tsukiko died). I know of at least one person in the Empire of Blood who always agrees with Tarquin - Tarquin himself. This means there are more of the latter than the former, in a numerical sense - percentage-wise, we don't really know how many people are in the EoB in total or exactly how many agree with Tarquin, but they're still greater than 0. *shrug*