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Thread: "Triple" Gestalt
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2011-04-18, 11:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Utah
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Well, Factotum//Psion//Warblade is kind of an obvious one for me. Similar to what a lot of other people are saying, but Psion isn't getting enough love compared to Wizard or Archivist or Artificer or StP Erudite. (Come on people, it's not about breaking the game ... it's about playing a fun class! ... and maybe occasionally breaking the action economy even more than the Factotum already does. )
Then if I want to make a party, the obvious choice seems to be a WIS-focused character and a CHA-focused character. I actually really like the Crusader//Dragon Shaman//Bard + PrCs build that someone else proposed.
For the WIS-fellow ... hmmm. At the moment, I think I'm feeling Scout/Swordsage//Ranger//Chaos Incarnate archer (with Swift Hunter).You can call me Draz.
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I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
... yes, I need to be tested for ADHD.
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2011-04-18, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- The Great White North
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Hence my dilemma. You can have triple casting, but without a way to get more actions so that you can actually use the spells/powers, you might as well not have them.
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2011-04-19, 12:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
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2011-04-19, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
I'm so far out of my league here it's not even funny.
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2011-04-19, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Paladin/Sorcerer/Shadowcaster sprinkled with PrC cheese as desired?
if we're allowing Theurgic classes... noctumancer is going to be interesting.
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2011-04-19, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Freljord
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2011-04-19, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Location, Location
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
druid/master of many forms//cleric/ardiant server of pelor//monk
will destroy everything with healing power!!!Welcome to the Internet where opinions are facts and sources don't matter!
I GOT A 4
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2011-04-19, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Canada
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Feat rogue//fighter//generic warrior (The UA class, not the PrC)
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2011-04-19, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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- Connecticolt
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My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic: The Thread, The Game, The Tumblr.
Human Crossings Avatar made by Thanqol
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2011-04-19, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
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- Hell's Heart
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
No, no, no. This is how you pump feats.
Wild Elf Feat Rogue 2/ Fighter 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Generic Warrior 2/ Generic Expert 2/ Martial Wizard 1/ Psion 1/ Generic Spellcaster 1/ Cloistered Cleric 1 (with all 3 domains swapped for Devotion feats)/ Monk 2/ Bear Totem Barbarian 3/ Soulknife 1. Make sure you do the Dark Chaos Shuffle.
This takes one side of the triple gestalt and nets you 27 bonus feats- six less than yours, but only eating up one side. You could spread this out over all three sides, take more levels in Generic Warrior, Feat Rogue, and Fighter, and get a lot more, but I'm not going to do the math for that.
Or, you could make the other two sides Factotum 20 and Druid 10/ Planar Shepherd 10. Make a gish of doom or something.
39, assuming no racial bonus feats; 40 if human or something, 43 using Dark Chaos Shuffle.Last edited by Lateral; 2011-04-19 at 02:10 PM.
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2011-04-19, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Freljord
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Last edited by Morph Bark; 2011-04-19 at 03:17 PM.
Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2011-04-19, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- Hell's Heart
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
You could do that, I suppose. It wouldn't be too bad, you'd still be essentially a Druid 10/ Planar Shepherd 10//Factotum 20.
Yes, Wild Elf. I mentioned Dark Chaos Shuffle. So... much... cheese.Last edited by Lateral; 2011-04-19 at 03:20 PM.
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2011-04-19, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
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- Somerville, MA
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
So this post reminds me of an idea I had a while back. Basically it takes E6 (epic at level 6) but instead of becoming epic at that point, you gain a gestalt and start filling in your second set of levels. When you reach the end of that, you'd add in a third set of gestalt levels.
So assuming G6, a level 6 character would stop advancing his primary class. He'd become
Fighter 6 // Wizard 1.
When the second slot filled up he might go
Fighter 6 // Wizard 6 // Rogue 1.
Etc.
I think this is more interesting than starting with three classes right out of the gate. But it's my idea so I'm biased. What I like about it is that it still progresses whatever the new class abilities are, but the character doesn't grow much beyond that. BAB will never pass 6. But there's still more room for advancement than E6's plain old gain a feat level ups.
The only thing I don't like is that the farther you go with it, the more alike characters will be. Even with 3 classes (which would be analogous to level 18) I don't see a lot of variety in characters. I'd expect most people to take a progression with full casting, another progression with BAB and HP. The third would probably be something for skill points or a different caster. Unless the group planned around each other, I'd expect a ton of overlap here.If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.
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2011-04-19, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
It would probably work better if you could fill those new gestalt slots with PrC abilities. Of course, you'd have to vet each PrC to make sure it isn't bringing in abilities too strong for E6's, but there are plenty that don't, and each iteration could allow stronger classes.
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2011-04-20, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Beguiler//Wizard/Rainbow Servant/stuff//Factotum.
You have all the options. All of them.The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.
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2011-04-20, 08:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Actually, I'm gonna be playing a variant of this.
It's normal Gestalt Rules for the first too slots, and then the third slot is optional too take, but if you grab it you can only assign lvl adjustment and Racial Hit Dice too it. The idea was the DM wanted a party of none-standard races, with out having to penalize the none standard races.
Now, for a normal triple Gestalt,
Barbarian, Fighter, Scout. Not the most powerful by a long shot, but fun long as no one's going for the uber broken builds."I Burn!"
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2011-04-20, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Washington, DC
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
You might just want to come up with a homebrew generic super class instead. It'd probably be a lot simpler then trying to combine and balance 3 different classes.
The Iconoclast
Full BAB, d10 hit die, full weapons and armor proficiency, all strong Saves, 6 Skill points per level, all Skills are class Skills.
The basis of this class is "Pick what's fun, and don't be a jerk about it, because other players want to have fun too."
Over 20 level, you get 23 character points. 4 at first level, and 1 additional point every level thereafter. Each time you gain a level you may reallocate your character points and select new abilities. But you may not put more then 10 points into any one ability, and your DM may ban anything he thinks would be too disruptive to the group. (Polymorph, breaking the action economy, etc). You may spend your character points on any of the following:
1 point:
- 1d6 Sneak Attack or Skirmish
- Bonus Feat that you otherwise qualify for
- Any spell, that you may spontaneously cast 3 times per day.
- Any psionic power from any list, plus 5 power points.
- Any soulmeld plus 1 point of essentia.
- Any maneuver or stance.
- +10 to all base movement speeds.
You may only select spells/powers/etc of a level that a normal class of that level could take. Thus an Iconoclast 5 could only select 3rd level spells, power, etc. Your caster/whatever level is equal to your character level, and your primary caster stat is whatever you want.
For all other abilities, your DM may assign a point value. 2 points for Evasion, 3 for a chakra bind, 4 for a vestige, or whatever you and your DM thinks is fair. Every ability is on the table, following the same basic guideline that you can't get an ability that a normal class or PrC of that ECL couldn't take, you can always designate your own primary attribute (so you can have Divine Grace based on Int or Wis or Con or whatever), and that your DM can take a ban hammer to anything that unbalances the group (which he should only do if it's seriously broken, given how powerful the Iconoclast will be). On any weird rules point, like essentia capacity or alignment restrictions, use the same rule of thumb of whatever would be reasonable for a class of that level who specialized in that ability.
Or you could just play GURPS. But that might involve having to learn new rules.Last edited by Person_Man; 2011-04-20 at 04:03 PM.
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2011-04-26, 09:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Canada
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
This is too good to let die yet! Quickened Extended Maximized Raise Thread!!! Plus corpsecrafter feats.
Evolutionist 20//Factotum 20//Spontaneous Druid 20
Just because I love Draken's Base class so much.Demilich avatar by Smuchmuch. Thank you VERY much!
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2011-04-27, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Marshal 1/Sorcerer 1/Human Paragon 3/Divine Oracle 10/Abjurant Champion 5//
Paladin 2/Sha'ir 8/Rainbow Servant 10//
Monk 1/Favored Soul 18/Pious Templar 1
All Charisma, all the time. BAB +16, 9/9/9 spellcasting, near-perfect saves with Divine Grace, Prescient Sense, and Mettle. Ability to cast any Wizard spell or any Cleric spell with sufficient advance notice. Flight as Ex.
On reflection, probably not nearly as cool as a Wizard//Archivist//Factotum, though I like to think the added flexibility and longevity makes up for losing the ability to nova spectacularly.
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2011-04-27, 04:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Freljord
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
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2011-04-27, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Maryland
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Quicken spell and some metamagic reducer would be there. With five or six casting classes at 9s, I can essentially always have the absolute perfect spells available. Belt of Battle is also a gimmie.
It's quite rare that I can't solve a problem with two or three perfect spells.
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2011-04-27, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
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- In an Octopus's Garden
Dex
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2011-04-27, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Well, the idea is that the Sorcerer and Favored Soul have all the spells you use frequently. The Sha'ir/Rainbow Servant exists to provide any Wizard spell in 1d6 + spell level minutes and any Cleric spell in 1d6 + spell level hours, without relying on item drops. The Marshal dip is intended to ensure that the Sha'ir always makes his Diplomacy checks; I had originally included a Warlock dip for another +6, but figured that was overkill and used Pious Templar for Mettle instead.
Thinking about it, I should have replaced Sorcerer with Warmage and gone Rainbow Warsnake on that side, kept Sha'ir for Wizard/Sorcerer spells, and piled all of my non-spellcasting classes on the third side and filled it out with Dragonfire Adept.Last edited by Viktyr Gehrig; 2011-04-27 at 07:01 PM.
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2011-04-27, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2011-04-27, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Sydney, NSW, Australia
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
I think I just had a nergasm...
Okay, my Ultimate Magus/Ur-Priest/Mystic Theruge/Beguiler/Wizard/Dweomerkeeper/Ruby Knight Vindicator/Archmage/Factotum/Warblade would like to meet you
Seriously, though, nice work.
Woah, really? You're good to DM it?
Same class feature accures at the rate of the faster class, unfortunately. You need a different bonus feat class feature to stack them...Awesome Avatar by Lord Fullbladder, Master of Goblins!
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2011-05-07, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Bard//Dread Necromancer//Cleric.
I can summon an undead hoard, beef it and myself up to be utter monsters and use bardic music and preform dance to do Thriller at my enemy's till they die!"I Burn!"
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2011-05-07, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- At Home
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
No one ever Gestalts with Fighter levels. Thats actually a little surprising since this is a Triple Gestalt, so you have less to lose.
8 Levels of Factotum are pretty nifty though.
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2011-05-07, 11:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Let's see I'd want decent arcane casting, plus good stats like BAB, AC, HP and damage might be nice. Plus ways to get out of grappling, paralysis, disease, petrification, etc.... Skill-monkeying might be nice but there are plenty of ways around that in most campaigns. Defense is hard without any armor, and most of the fix-its are divine yet low level. I'd have to go dex and range with a way to use divine scrolls.
So... arcane caster / archer / something with UMD. So... sorcerer / fighter / rogue . Sorc for charisma synergy. Though any similar combo could do. Maybe x/x/bard but as long as I can greater invis myself and have full BAB I might as well grab sneak attack damage.So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
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2011-05-07, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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- Australia mate
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Wight8/Evolved Undead12
//
StPErudite1/Wizard1/Cleric1/Rogue14/Epichero3
//
Unarmed Swordsage20
Take Epic magic: Erudite, Wizard and Cleric using Swordsage Maneuvers to qualify for Epic magic
I have Arcane, Divine, Psionic and Maneuvers at 9, A bucketload of SLAs, Sneak Attack, Level drain, Natural Weapons at a high damage output and enough Fast Healing to fight till the cows come home.
Replace Wight and undead levels for Factotum and be a regular Swordsage if you need more actions rather than being the Energizer Bunny on Steroidscall me Dragon
I have left this site for a while. I probablt wont be coming back.
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2011-05-08, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- The land of corn
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Re: "Triple" Gestalt
Looks like someone figured out how they came up with Exalted.
I'm going to second the idea of using PrC classes as a way to avoid the sameyness issue.
Consider the (not terribly optimal, but good for our purposes example) Fighter 6//Wizard 6//Spellsword 6.
Spellsword levels give him some nifty abilities to synergize his first two progressions as well as a little boost to caster level (I think Spellsword 6 nets +3 caster level, and we're not progressing spell slots past 6 just caster level and level dependent variables) and some bonus feats.
A much better way to avoid the whole sameyness.