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2012-09-20, 02:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
If by "identified an undead" you mean "used the specific MM name of the undead in question, along with mentioning one or more of its powers", then yeah, that would pretty strongly indicate some ranks in Knowledge (religion). Vaarsuvius knows that she could come back as a ghost - naming the MM name specifically - and will retain her spellcasting should she do so - naming at least one of a ghost's powers, namely that applying the "ghost" template does not remove spellcasting from the base creature.
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2012-09-20, 11:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Let's go over the equation for Xykon's Magic Item That Grants Him Fire Immunity, shall we?
Energy Immunity is a 7th level Sorcerer spell, so that gives us a 14th-level minimum on caster level, as it was created by Xykon himself. A continuous effect with a 24-hour duration would be (spell level X caster level X 1,000) GPs, giving us a market price of 98,000 GPs(keep in mind that, if you are planning on having this for yourself, the price will be lower if made by a Wizard, and even lower if made by a Cleric or Druid). Although this would take 98 weeks to make (~2 years), he has had more than plenty of time on his hands to do so (unless if he took the Epic Level feat that would decimate this time, requiring only 10 weeks of time).
So there you have it. He possesses a magic item (most likely a Wonderous Item, as he already has that feat) that required 49,000 GPs in materials, and 3920 XP to craft. Boom. No absurd Epic rules needed. Just Complete Arcane (page 105) and the Dungeon Master's Guide (page 285).
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2012-09-21, 12:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Or it could be the Ring of the Blazing Sun from Sandstorm, but that and your own theory both require non-core sources. These kinds of suggestions haven't been universally accepted since the thread tends towards core when possible.
Also, magic item creation is done at the rate of one day per 1000 gp in price, not one week.Last edited by Claudius Maximus; 2012-09-21 at 12:48 AM.
Editor and playtester for Legend.
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2012-09-21, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I believe there was also the suggestion that instead of actual immunity, it was just resistance so strong that it was basically immunity for all practical purposes.
Don't believe that myself, but it's another way achieving the effect we've seen.
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2012-09-21, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
The stat blocks for Xykon and Redcloak currently indicate it is Redcloak who likely has craft wondrous item. The reason listed is in Start of Darkness.
SpoilerRedcloak assists Xykon in becoming a lich. While they are planning the procedure, Redcloak says he can help in the creation of his phylactery. If memory serves, this was a panel or two before he suggests creating the phylactery out of his holy symbol. I am away from the book, so I suppose it could have been a reference to gathering other raw materials needed from their surroundings at the time, or an "aid another" situation since he tells Xykon the creation doesn't actually require any spells to be cast. Hmm... Perhaps someone can point out the current logic a bit better?
Edit after finding book:
SpoilerOK, so the decision to make the phylactery Redcloak's holy symbol came later. Redcloak's exact words to Xykon, "You would need to build a special phylactery. It would hold your soul if your body was ever destroyed. I can help you with that, though -- there's no spellcasting involved."
The context you need to know is that Xykon's spellcasting was inhibited at that point. Then the raw materials question comes up and it seems unrelated to Redcloak's ability, other than showing he has some knowledge of using plants for magical purposes. So, it's looking to me as if Xykon could be the one with Craft Wondrous Item, and Redcloak might just have enough ranks in a craft skill to be able to "aid another," if that was even required after deciding to use the holy symbol.Last edited by KillingAScarab; 2012-09-21 at 01:51 PM.
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2012-09-21, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I believe that when Redcloak gets angry over the others torturing O-Chul for giggles (as opposed to practical reasons like he has), Xykon mentions that he can only craft items for eight hours a day despite not being able to sleep, and thus needs something else to do in that time.
Since we've seen him use Wondrous Items, but no staffs, rods, scrolls or weapons, it seems reasonable to conclude that Xykon has the Craft Wondrous Items feat (and considering he was old before he met Redcloak, the fact that the goblin has it is somewhat independent of whether Xykon felt it worth a feat slot)."Not trusting me might be the smartest decision you made since getting off of your horse."
Avatar by Ifni, who is rightly awesome.
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2012-09-21, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
That's the reason why the stat block currently lists him as having at least one craft feat.
Which does not require having an item creation feat. He does tend to collect them. He found and kept Dorukan's headband to cast cloister, though that's postulated to be a focus and not a magic item. He purchased the crystal ball and TeeVo.There has only been one magic item I can think of which Xykon implied he crafted himself and we don't know what form it took.SpoilerIn SoD, he has a ring which protects him from positive energy, but he says he "found it on eBay." But that's a ring and not a wondrous item, anyway.
You left out rings. Rings are actually the things we have seen Team Evil acquire most often, I believe. Tsukiko has one in the comic where she dies, but she did not in her fight with Haley. Xykon has a deflection bonus when Vaarsuvius attempts to use disintegrate on him, but no deflection was ever noted when Roy attacked him and it is noted in the stat block as coming from a ring of protection.
Redcloak also has a deflection bonus when he crushes the resistance... actually, I'm not sure what the source would be for that. Shield of law has a duration of one round per level and that was never cast in-panel by a cleric who would have had to do a lot of summoning or calling prior to that appearance. Shield of faith has a duration measured in minutes, but again, how long was he in the resistance headquarters? Perhaps he has a ring of protection, too?It certainly never came up during the "climactic" cleric battle. A deflection bonus would have really been helpful against Soon and the ghost-martyrs of the Saphire Guard, though the smites would likely hit.SpoilerHe didn't seem to have one in SoD page 92.
Hmm... I really know nothing about how magic traps are made. Could the traps triggered by Vaarsuvius have required a craft feat?Last edited by KillingAScarab; 2012-09-21 at 03:06 PM.
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2012-09-21, 10:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Thank God.
And to others, I believe that it states that the lich-to-be must be the one with Craft Wonderous Item, and Redcloak could've just meant that he had some of the requisite components for the process of becoming a lich, but I could be mistaken, as I have not read SoD.
Also, I don't think that we should worry about the magic traps in regards to Team Evil. I don't believe that there are any exact rules for players to make their own magical traps, rather than the general guidelines presented in the DMG, as it is more for the lairs of the Bad Guys. Even so, if I were a DM in this scenario, I would allow those traps to be one-shot, triggered Wonderous Items, at the very least.
And I don't think that those effects were deflection bonuses. The same effect was seen on the Death Knight, I believe, during the battle for Azure City when V attempted to Disintegrate him and it fizzled out of the way. I'm fairly certain that liches have SR, and it wouldn't be that hard for Redcloak to have had it during the times that KillingAScarab mentioned.
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2012-09-21, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
When Disintegrate bounced off Xykon, there is a "deflect" sound effect in blue lettering just below where the beam hit. There is no such sound effect anywhere near the Death Knight, and we are told immediately after that SR was responsible. In other words, the beam might look the same, but the reasons for its not working are different. And no, the lich template does not confer SR.
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2012-09-22, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
In that case we had information which was clearly more trustworthy than Miko's own dialogue. In the case of Vaarsuvius, we have nothing to suggest that s/he does not actually have ranks in Knowledge: Religion.
In this case we do have clear evidence which says that "unmatched" cannot be taken literally. Vaarsuvius could not at the time have had more than--what, 14? 15?--ranks in a class skill. This is readily explainable by his/her tendency towards exaggeration, but it does not mean that s/he made up having the skill at all.
As zimmerwald said, Vaarsuvius on multiple occasions displayed more knowledge of undead than simple identification of common types.
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2012-09-22, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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2012-09-22, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
And, what's more--I just thought of this--"unmatched" might not even be an exaggeration at all, if Vaarsuvius means unmatched among the party. We know for a fact that Durkon does not have very many ranks in Knowledge: Religion, and no other party member is likely to have any.
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2012-09-23, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Thog has little to no ranks in Use Rope.
(He "never made tenderfoot;" 16th panel overall, 1st panel of second page)Last edited by karkus; 2012-09-23 at 03:51 PM.
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2012-09-23, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
So I know we don't like talking about Xykon's level 'round these parts, but I was reading through the archives and noticed this gem. I don't suppose anything can be deduced from that "a day and a half, give or take a few hours"?
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2012-09-23, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Wouldn't it be hard to pin down since it's a custom spell?
Would making a force cage easily escapable increase or decrease the level of the spell?
With standard force cage that would put X's caster level at 14-22 so it's probably not that useful since other things tend to put him above that.
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2012-09-23, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Not to mention that Xykon was saying exactly what he needed to say to push her to escape. He wanted to scry on her when she reached Azure City, not give her accurate information about his spellcasting abilities. Bluff is a class skill for sorcerers, after all.
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2012-09-24, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Btw what's up with Miko's face @ panel #3 anyway D:
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2012-09-24, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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2012-09-24, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Puts X at 18, +/- 2 levels, given standard duration. But this was before Rich started throwing around epic spells, and before he wrote SoD, so X could have gotten a retroactive power-up in the meantime. Too, a moderately escapable forcecage may have reduced duration as well as reduced anchoring. So, nothing definite.
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2012-09-25, 10:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Xykon's got no reason to lie to Miko about the duration; the point is that the cage lasts long enough for her that waiting is not an option. Any number over 4 hours or so would have sufficed.
It's more in Xykon's character that he can't be bothered to remember how long exactly his spells last. He probably doesn't remember how much damage his meteor swarms do, either: if one is not enough, he'll simply cast a second. And a third.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2012-10-06, 08:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Is there any particular prerequisites for disarm in 3.5 or everyone can attempt it and just roll DC?
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2012-10-06, 11:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
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2012-10-06, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.The players were attacked individually on the road on the way to town by werewolves. To survive, they had to team up then and there without knowing anything about eachother (literally -- all character sheets were completed without other players' knowledge).
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2012-10-06, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
The "ball of insanity" was just an ordinary bouncing ball with a symbol of insanity inscribed on it. It wasn't a magic item.
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2012-10-06, 08:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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2012-10-06, 10:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-10-07, 06:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2012-10-08, 07:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Hmmm, can this be counted as Nale having Improved Disarm then :D? No visible AOOs here.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0361.html
This would also indicate that he must have Combat Expertise and Int 13+.
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2012-10-08, 08:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
"They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
- The Flying Kipper
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2012-10-08, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Also, in that particular circumstance, it may be safe to call the Rookie flat-footed.
Originally Posted by The Giant