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2012-05-10, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
You could kick start it? Eventually, if you want to go into production, you totally should. Have you looked into making a site?
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2012-05-10, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
I've made simple websites before, as well as set up my own forums. I was planning to for my game at some point.
And a Kickstarter.. That's a really good idea. I don't know what I'd be allowed to say about it here, though. Besides *Winkwink*Fourthland Kickstarter*Winkwink*. I'd probably want to talk to mods about it. I've already done a bit of discussion with them about donation, but I'm not sure what the verdict on this would be.
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2012-05-10, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
A month or more?! GAH! If I pledge to the kickstarter can we start sooner?
My Extended Homebrewer's Signature
Gunslinger avatar and banner by Flumphy.
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2012-05-10, 10:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
I don't think thats how we should do this...
Considering the amount of Kickstart attention that OoTS was given on the forums, there should be no problems with a Fourthland one.
And I checked, the URL seems to be unclaimed.... (www.fourthland.com)
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2012-05-11, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
I did a lot of looking into Kickstarter, but I'm a little concerned that it is affected by taxes and requires you to list the contact information of a "Business" on your Amazon account. Little bit afraid of IRS troubles that could result. I'm sure it's alright, and I'll likely still set one up, but I want to do a bit more research first.
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2012-05-13, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
RANDOM UPDATES:
1. We did not play Fourthland this weekend. We started Grimtooth's Dungeon of Doom, though. I think the total death count was in the 30s.
2. I am doing more research into the business requirement of Kickstarters. I have submitted a help request on the topic.
3. My copyright-friend has talked me out of Preregistering, given that it doesn't actually do much and it has such a large cost. The new plan is to publish and copyright the first draft in increments, going through the process for each separately. In the long run, this will likely be cheaper.
4. I plan to claim that domain very soon. I've dabbled in web design and know some people that do it for a living. I'll likely set up my own forums there, though they won't be terribly active for a while still.
5. Sending a PM to Roland about whether or not I can post a link to a Kickstarter here.
Here it is, word for word:
Originally Posted by Welknair
7. Consideration about one of my original design goals that I forgot to mention, and one that is VERY RELEVANT given the section of this thread: "Homebrew-ability". The property of a game that allows homebrew to be created for it. I want my game to very much encourage homebrew, and I've seen many games that do and don't do so. For example, D&D 3.5e is obviously quite homebrew-able. 4e, not so much (Though Surrealistik does make some decent stuff). This is because it is more difficult to create classes, which were always the most popular topic of homebrew. Exalted is another example of something that's difficult to homebrew for. What're you going to make? You can make side-charms, or martial arts styles, but that's about it.
In my game, you'll be able to (And encouraged to, if you have the capacity) homebrew the falling, among others: Shapes (Class-things. I expect tons of these.), Alchemies and Masteries (*Sinister Laughter*), Creatures (Why of course!), Materials, and finally Energies (That's right. You can add your own.),
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2012-05-13, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- You lost the game.
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2012-05-13, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
Why of course you can! Even if I didn't decide to specifically encourage it, I'm pretty sure people like you guys would add them anyways. I'm going to include a couple example "Extra Energies" and suggest that advanced groups choose four Extras from those that I include and those that others make to mix things up, so each game world is a bit different.
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2012-05-13, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- You lost the game.
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
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2012-05-13, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
That IS an interesting point, and as you say, one that I cannot fully predict the outcome of. It'll be up to the Muse to decide what energies to include and to think about how they'll interact with each other and the main 12. I think some interesting things should result.
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2012-05-13, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- The Blind Eternities
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
Homebrew:
Misc:
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2012-05-13, 07:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
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- You lost the game.
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
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2012-05-13, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
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- TX, USA
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
Well hell, what about the Lanterns? Will and anger as energies?
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2012-05-13, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- The Blind Eternities
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
Homebrew:
Misc:
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2012-05-13, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
1. Keep in mind the number of the original 12 that you still don't know. Something like what you're thinking up maaay already exist.
2. We won't be using Extras in our playtest
3. I am taking the advice of my copyright friend about the incremental publishing. It won't be long before I'm ready to start writing the first increment, which should be sufficient for the first playtest with you guys.
4. Given the incremental, I don't need the 115, but rather 35 for each increment. I have enough to fund the first increment.
5. I got word back from the Kickstarter customer-service and they say that I do NOT need a business liscense, which is what I thought. It should be alright for me to make a Kickstarter. But..
6. I'm going to wait until I see the results of the first increment before I set up the Kickstarter.
7. Still no word back from Roland.
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2012-05-13, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
...designs...and arts...and stuff...
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2012-05-13, 11:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
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- Where I live.
Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
Guys, you are thinking in far too prosaic a way, my friends.
I call dibs on the 14th, Narrative Inertia.
And on the 15th, Flavor, because seriously, being able to make the sun taste like cherries is win.
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2012-05-13, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
I.. I am in awe. I am continually amazed by the sheer awesome-ness of you guys. SPOILER: The 16th Energy is 'Stache of Authority. SUPERSPOILER: They're all secretly Tyler Durden.
Well, I used to be very good friends with an extremely talented artist that I was hoping to draw the majority of the artwork but.. IRL things came up and that is looking less likely. Perhaps I should make a post in the Arts and Craft section? For the first release pictures aren't required, but at some point I would like them.
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2012-05-14, 12:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- Where I live.
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2012-05-14, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
Bah, 16th is best. Motivation.
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2012-05-14, 06:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
Last edited by Story Time; 2012-05-14 at 06:22 AM. Reason: Punctuation
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2012-05-14, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
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2012-05-14, 08:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
From the perspective of a Publishing House, first-time authors usually have an eight percent portion of the profit for royalties. ...if they ever see it. Second-time authors can or should receive ten percent. Above that, anything to fifteen percent can be considered normal.
First-time artists...? I'll say two to five. Second-time, five to ten. ...and might not rise higher than that. Twelve at the most, maybe?
You as the publisher, can do what-ever you want. And if you are kind ( and prompt! can not stress this enough! ) with those residuals, the artists should be kind and consistent for you.
Some artists like the idea of a publisher buying the art rather than receiving residuals / royalties. However, residuals allow a non-famous artist to receive consistent payment, even if small.Last edited by Story Time; 2012-05-14 at 08:43 AM. Reason: Revision
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2012-05-14, 09:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
That makes sense. Originally I was intending to do self-publishing via the Amazon Createspace, though I'm not entirely sure now. IIRC, the Createspace gave 60% profit to the author. The downside is that without a proper publisher or editor, it is very unlikely the book will ever find its way to bookstore shelves. Then again, most of my readers are finding out about it online.. I'm not entirely sure what to make of that quite yet.
I also understand the residual v single-price dichotomy. And I would of course want to treat my artist(s) well if I make it that far. Talented artists are difficult to come by.
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2012-05-14, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
Homebrew:
Misc:
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2012-05-14, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
...I should really stop...I really should...
SpoilerYou are the author and publisher. You take all of the profit.
That profit is then divided into taxes, royalties, residuals, and funds for further publishing, at your personal discretion.
Welknair has access to the Giant In The Playground Forums fan-base, as well as any word-of-mouth which spreads from one forum to another. Now...I don't like the idea of stealing fans, of course. That probably won't happen, but with the Information Age and the Internet as they are, you don't have to sell books to stores!
Yes... I have seen publishing executives rip out the metaphorical hearts of optimistic, eager, and talented artists. It was disgusting. Artists of talent should be recognized and their noble craft should be respected. They should also be paid appropriately.
On a personal note? I would never use Amazon. Unethical business practices go on there. ...not every level, but they are visible.Last edited by Story Time; 2012-05-14 at 09:12 AM. Reason: Spelling
Remember: A Moderator has read your post.
Probably.
Spoiler
Originally Posted by Story Time
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2012-05-14, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
If I have this straight (Which I likely don't) the Publisher is the person or group that manages the printing and distribution of the work. I don't exactly have a printing press at my disposal. If I wish to print this, I need a publisher. The Createspace allows for "Self Publishing" where Amazon effectively acts as the publisher, printing the books on demand. This raises another interesting question, though... Should I go through the effort to get it printed? Or would it be better to only sell it as a pdf or somesuch?
By now hopefully it is apparent that I am not a cold and ruthless executive at a corporation. I actually have a concience and would care about anyone working for/with me to create this game. Anyone aiding me (with art or otherwise) will get fair dues. As-is, I'm probably going to include acknowledgements to all you guys that are posting on this thread consistently. Of course artists or anyone else that contributes would be paid a reasonable amount.
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2012-05-14, 09:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
If I thought that you were cold and ruthless, executive or other-wise, I would not help you.
There is only one kind of self publishing. That is when the author publishes the manual. I would...sincerely suggest searching for a publishing house located in or near your local area. It...it's so much easier and simpler to get an answer from a face or a voice than from a computer screen.
...and if they're trying to hide some-thing, it will be more easy to tell.
...by selling the books your-self, even if you are not able to do so the first time, no one will be able to hide costs, purchases, or expenses from you.
Presentation Document Format... Is a quick, if dangerous, way to make profit. As a publishing medium it is dangerous due to the easy replication of data known as copying. However, if you truly wish to burn Compact Disks with the file on it, along with any other material that you would like, this is an effective method of generating an income.
It is also possible to simply distribute the file, but I can not recommend this method for two reasons: First, the above data-replication note. Second, an enormously immense amount of users forget to back-up what they purchase. This would necessitate that you, or some-one, would have to keep records of all sales for decades...just to provide quality customer service.Last edited by Story Time; 2012-05-14 at 09:41 AM.
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2012-05-14, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
This makes sense. I'll look into finding local publishing houses. I- *Insert google-research here*
Well, I WAS under the impression that getting a proper publisher costed a deal of money. My google-fu didn't return that answer. Huh. If it does require a sum of money, as previously mentioned, I don't have much right now and am quite averse to taking loans. A quick search also returned a nice little list of local publishing houses. Taking a closer look now.
Swordsageedit:
I was thinking something akin to GURPS's system of online purchases. If you haven't used it before, they have an automoated database of accounts with information about what books each account has bought, allow re-download as long as you're logged in. I happen to have a bit of experience in PHP/MySQL, and know some people that are much better than me that would be willing to help with such an endeavour. The risk of copying WOULD be a problem, though...Last edited by Welknair; 2012-05-14 at 09:48 AM.
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2012-05-14, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
Re: [Welknair Update/Game Idea] Fourth Land
It is possible to copy-right data on a compact disk, provided that concessions are made for the file format ( P.D.F. in this case ). Doing this would allow Welknair to copy-right and distribute the content with minimal cost for a first run. Later, paper manuals could be produced for those who like the feel of tree in their hands.
...I know that I prefer paper...
...really. I'm only listing options. Publishing houses usually require contracts and the fine-print in those can some-times eat first-time authors whole.
Please be careful.
1
An Internet-based account system is a possible one. It is a good idea, in some senses. I...don't think that my conscience will allow me to encourage it, though, for obvious reasons.Last edited by Story Time; 2012-05-14 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Welknair's Previous Edit